Bruce K

[keno]

Do I understand correctly that you have become enabled to close threads? If yes, how did this come about?

Personally, I believe that your closing of girlie's thread on your "fear" of it getting personal is absolutely chilling. While freedom of speech on this forum has its limits, this one seems to be your own creation.

I think that the believers in and dispensers of political correctness do not comprehend what damage awaits them.

This is not personal, Bruce, as we have been good acquaintances over the years. Your action, based as it is, is perhaps the most radical action a moderator has ever taken on this forum.

keno

[Climb01742]

i'd be curious as well. IMO, girlie's post is thoughtful, civil and not personal. if in subsequent posts, things became personal or lacked civility, wouldn't the responsibility for that fall to whomever replied in an inappropriate way -- not to girlie for beginning a thoughtful dialog?

BTW, i thought bruce handled a recent political thread well... let it run it's course, let's everyone have their say... then closed it. it is a tough job.

[William]

Though I don't agree with closing threads ~before~ anything bad might happen, the second poster did call Girlie a troll. I guess one could argue it was headed that way...but IMO it wasn't to that point yet. But, I don't hold any power here so it is what it is.


Tough job.

William

[garysol1]

, wouldn't the responsibility for that fall to whomever replied in an inappropriate way -- not to girlie for beginning a thoughtful dialog?

That is very true except for one fact. I assume the moderators of this forum are like mods on any forum and have a life outside of being here and online. Sometimes as a mod you need to use common sense and know where a thread is headed simply because you know that when it falls off the cliff there may be no one here to baby sit it. This forum represents Serotta and so the posts need to fit a certain standard and sometimes to keep these standards high there will be some unpopular decisions made. Posts that are started to do nothing but stir the pot do no good other then make the moderators job more difficult then it already is. To the OP....Maybe try PM'ing the mod who made the decision and ask for a explanation and voice your opinion to why you do not like it. You may find you more done that way.

[93legendti]

Do I understand correctly that you have become enabled to close threads? If yes, how did this come about?

Personally, I believe that your closing of girlie's thread on your "fear" of it getting personal is absolutely chilling. While freedom of speech on this forum has its limits, this one seems to be your own creation.

I think that the believers in and dispensers of political correctness do not comprehend what damage awaits them.

This is not personal, Bruce, as we have been good acquaintances over the years. Your action, based as it is, is perhaps the most radical action a moderator has ever taken on this forum.

keno
keno,
Sadly,this is neither new, nor limited to Bruce K:

Please contact ADAM directly for additional details and look at the other thread on same topic that had been previously closed. The closing has nothing to do with the topic or the trip but, as in previous thread that was closed, the discussions that came afterwards. The information is here, and all can contact Adam by email.

I know that some will feel I am singling out folks or topics but that is not accurate. I do apologize to those who think that.

PETE

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=52727
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=46137

[keno]

OP....Maybe try PM'ing the mod who made the decision and ask for a explanation and voice your opinion to why you do not like it. You may find you more done that way.

In my view, that is a suggestion on an important issue affecting us all that is another form of sweeping under the PC carpet. Each of us must choose the form of communication we deem best under the circumstances.

keno

[93legendti]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=56298

OK, we're done . . .

I can see no other purpose to this thread other than to get the usual reactions from the usual folks. You all have each others ID's . . . continue this useless, endless partisan argument offline. Thank you.

BBD

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=39403&page=3&highlight=john+edwards

Preemptive stirke.

This has the potential to get way out of hand way too fast.

Sorry guys.

BK

[Ti Designs]

Bruce,

If I were you I would lock this thread now, otherwise it's gonna be endless pages of people telling you how to do your job. I don't care how much Serotta is paying you for this, it's not worth it :rolleyes:

This all reminds me of the endless car trips my parents took us on when I was growing up. Put four kids and two parents in the car for a few hours and sooner or later one of the parents is going to say "don't make me turn this car around!" OK, maybe it gets two of the kids to stop fighting for a few minutes, but when the next exit is 38 miles away something else is going to break out.

The problem lies with the members as much as it does with the moderators. When I'm driving my car in traffic I have one personal standard to live up to - don't be an asshole. Driving, not unlike posting on the forum is a case where everybody is isolated from everybody else, the windows are rolled up, the stereo is playing - it's you vs. the other cars. I say make it persaonal, give a crap about what others think. Post as if the whole rest of the forum are all in the room with you... better yet, post like the whole forum is on a ride with you.


Now to answer the original question, there was this sword stuck in a rock which none of the other forum members could pull out...

[thwart]

Personally I'm just glad I'm not a moderator.

There is no right answer; you either failed to act responsibly and as a result let things go way too far south, or you're a power-loving censor with no regard for free speech.

All in the eye of the beholder.

Overall I think the job is done very well by the folks responsible (not to say that I agree with all of the decisions...).

And... I'm grateful to Serotta for sponsoring the Forum and have some qualms about looking a gift horse in the mouth. ;)

[William]

http://rlv.zcache.com/dont_make_me_turn_this_car_around_mug-p168019816946312757qn0p_400.jpg

[keno]

but this forum is a car out of which one may step and re-enter from time to time without suffering harm of any kind. A thread, like an accident scene, is something for which no compulsion to take a prolonged look exists.

If nothing else, playing with the analogy was fun.

keno

[Bruce K]

Simple answers:

1. I've been a moderator here for quite some time. That enables me to lock threads,ban posters, etc.

2. The pay is outrageously large. To date, a Serotta baseball cap and a thank you from Pete.

3. I don't watch this forum 24/7 and I'm pretty sure it's the same for other moderators as well. With that said, and with most of the other Mods at NAHBS, I made a decision that after Viper's initial thread and the second posters calling girlie a troll in the new one while privately asserting his belief that girlie was another incarnation of Viper, I made a decision. Like it or not, it was my best gut feeling at the time.

I have had private PM's with girlie on this topic and had planned to unlock the thread or start another one and after 1.5 hours of snow clearing, I came back and found this one.

4. Does this particular topic of the rape depiction need more conversation, ABSOLUTELY. If it can be done without name calling, have at it. Start another thread.

It does appear that no matter what we do as mods, someone is not going to be happy. I guess it comes with the job.

As for the most whatever you'd like to call it with regards to this particular thread, or that you think it was Draconian in some way, I guess all I can say is, I wish you could do this for a week or two and maybe you'd feel different. With spam, trolls, and PM's telling us how to do our job better, it's sometimes almost not worth it.

But remember, without VOLUNTEER mods (and no we didn't excatly volunteer, we accepted when asked), Serotta probably would have closed this forum long ago.

Now back to grading papers and studying for my licensure exam, but thanks for asking. :rolleyes:

BK

[Ti Designs]

but this forum is a car out of which one may step and re-enter from time to time without suffering harm of any kind. A thread, like an accident scene, is something for which no compulsion to take a prolonged look exists.

Cycling clothing is still in the dryer - MUST look at Serotta forum...

[Ray]

It does appear that no matter what we do as mods, someone is not going to be happy. I guess it comes with the job.

Its like being a judge, politician, city planner, among countless other thankless jobs. As long as everyone is equally pissed at you, you know you're doing a good job!

-Ray

[93legendti]

Cycling clothing is still in the dryer - MUST look at Serotta forum...
Don't you find the dryer hard on cycling clothing? I like to air dry mine.

[rwsaunders]

Simple answers:

2. The pay is outrageously large. To date, a Serotta baseball cap and a thank you from Pete. BK

Aha...I knew it! Right up there with the over-compensated execs from AIG and Bank of America. :cool:

[keno]

hey, watchit; it takes talent to screw up that bad, or well, depending on perspective. Somewhere Osama, or someone of his ilk, is smiling if not laughing out loud.

keno

[Ray]

Aha...I knew it! Right up there with the over-compensated execs from AIG and Bank of America. :cool:
Yeah, makes me sick when Pete, Dave, and Bruce get together and show off their caps. Probably even over some red. Damn. All on my dime too. Oh, wait a minute...

-Ray

[rugbysecondrow]

Its like being a judge, politician, city planner, among countless other thankless jobs. As long as everyone is equally pissed at you, you know you're doing a good job!

-Ray


Thanks for sticking up for the City Planners Ray. As a former planner, I can feel the love.

Thanks for what you do Bruce K. Enjoy your hat. Maybe we can hook you up with a belt buckle or some suspenders.

[Ti Designs]

Don't you find the dryer hard on cycling clothing? I like to air dry mine.


I've taken an intelegent look at cycling laundry, here's what I've come up with: First, I ride 5 or 6 days a week in the winter - not much time for air drying. Second, I ride a fixed gear all winter. A few hours in the saddle at 120 RPMs average will wear out the seat of my tights far faster than washing them 800 times. Third, on a four hour fixed gear ride your stomach starts eyeing other internal organs. Feeding myself, not washing my clothing is the top priority. Fourth, I don't own any Rapha or Assos stuff...


This too is Bruce's fault.

[Bruce K]

What a bunch of Meshuganahs !!! :D

:banana: :banana: :banana:

BK

[jhcakilmer]

Lock away, Bruce. Too many threads prolong life, due to only a handful of forumites keeping them alive.

I'm really not being critical of anyone's specific "OT" thoughts, but I've been avoiding many of them lately.......primarily threads of anything political........

Plus all this talk about how "political correctness" is inhibiting true discussion is just sad. If we can't discuss a topic without being rude, crass, or attacking someones character......than we need to look at our real intent, and motives. People that really feel strongly about a certain issue, and are truly informed, don't have to stoop to name calling to prove their points.

political correctness....aka...class, self-respect, self control, etc

[Pete Serotta]

- I support BB DAVE, BRUCE, ANIEDA 100%, in the management of the forum. If someone does not agree with them...please blame me and me alone.
They donate their time, patience, and much more to trying to keep things "somewhat" orderly. If they would have come to me with the concern - I would have closed it based on their recommendation/suggestion.

- I have had discussions with a few individuals about their "themes" in posts and it is usually not a single post that causes a closing or on a rare occasion a ban.

There are one or two individuals out there (or maybe even more) that do not agree with my actions - I wish I could make everyone happy but that will never happen. I respect all but that does not mean I agree with them nor that I will duck from taking actions so folks do not say bad things about me.

- We all try to be fair BUT then the definition of "fair" is pretty gray.

- I am always asked "why did you single me out"? this usually is not the result of a single thread. In fact we are more open than many forums. Additionally a few of these individuals IDs have been banned from other forums....While.this is not taken into consideration when we the moderators take action = the ID should asks why everyone seems to be against them.

- We try to have a OPEN forum and sometimes we succeed BUT at times we make a decision we think is correct for the time and the post.... That is usually seldom, but when it is done it is done. It is based on history, our opinion of where we think the thread is going (and 99% of the time is has nothing to do with cycling or bikes) and our past experience with the ID or topic..

- We the moderators and me especially will learn from all posters and our actions - -but a closure or ban is not a "court of law" or even one of "public opinion"


In summary, in the future, if someone has a problem with a closure or a ban please blame me. Feel free to single me out as the culprit. The other moderators are doing me and all of those that use the forum a favor.

THANKS

[shinomaster]

I wanna see that freaking wheel? Where is is it?

[C50]

Ok, I must admit that I don't post a whole ton, I have missed most of what is going on with this topic but what shocked me most is reading that Ti Designs dries cycling clothing in the dryer! Now I understand convience and the need for clean cycling gear but please tell me you at least skip the Bounce sheets or fabric softener as this clogs the "pores" in the fabric of all this fancy tight fitting clothing we must wear.

To dry or not to dry - this is the question?

This could get more heated then tubular v. clincher or Shimano v. Campagnolo v. SRAM

I am standing back now - have at it everyone!

[Ray]

.... what shocked me most is reading that Ti Designs dries cycling clothing in the dryer! Now I understand convience and the need for clean cycling gear but please tell me you at least skip the Bounce sheets or fabric softener as this clogs the "pores" in the fabric of all this fancy tight fitting clothing we must wear.

To dry or not to dry - this is the question?
I was not aware that we "must" wear anything in particular. But I put all that ****e in the dryer too. Except wool, which would not forgive me. But all the synthetic stuff goes right in the regular cold-water wash and the regular hot dryer. With a fabric sheet. I also ride a good bit in street clothes and I throw that stuff in the dryer too. Jeepers, now that I know the poor pores are no longer porous, what to do, what to do? I'll assume the poor pores are permanently not porous and I will continue to dry them in the dryer, even over pitched protests from the peanut gallery! I hope my own personal pores are still porous. I used to take the occasional brief thrill ride in the industrial sized dryers as a kid. But I did NOT use Bounce!, so perhaps I'm still ok.

-Ray

[Ti Designs]

To dry or not to dry - this is the question?

This could get more heated then tubular v. clincher or Shimano v. Campagnolo v. SRAM

I am standing back now - have at it everyone!


I use the dryer. I use tubulars in season and clinchers off season. I use Shimano on my road bike, Suntour on my fixed gear and vintage Campy on my track bike.

And just to put in my bid for getting this thread locked...

Waiting for you stuff to dry sucks. Tubulars in the winter (cept for cross) suck. Clinchers in the summer kinda suck. An 11-speed cassette costs $400, which sucks. Suntour went out of business, which sucks. And anything other than Campy record from the 70's sucks - 'cept maybe hi-E wheels...