Serotta is silly [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

shinomaster

12-08-2004, 09:53 PM

Why would a company like Serotta make bikes that they dont have on their website or in catalogues? What I am mostly speaking of are their cross bikes and track bikes.
Here in Portland there is a big demand for both kinds of bikes as we have both a Velodrome and one of the nations largest cycloross series. Walk into a pro shop and you'll see a steel Seven cross bike, a Gunner, and a Surley made of steel. There is a big demand in this town for cool steel cross bikes. Many of the locals are racing on steel Vanilla's this season, including the state champ, a former Serotta employee. A gunner is around $900.. I bet if The bike gallery had a cool looking pink Serotta cross bike on the floor with a carbon fork it would sell. But why would anyone go asking serotta to make them one if there is not info or geometry about them anywhere to be found, or prices. People buy what they see. I work retail I know this as well as anyone. Cross bikes are often impulse buys at the end of the season too, as many people want to try racing like I did this year.
I'm not sure if serotta knows how many people are buying cross bikes. Everone wants to have a unique bike, not just another Redline or Gunner.

I'll race an Ottrott cross bike next year to spread the word if you want Ben Serotta!

xxoo

Shinomaster

Blastinbob

12-08-2004, 10:16 PM

Not giving up, are you ? ;)

shinomaster

12-08-2004, 11:22 PM

There were over 600 racers at the Stumptown Grand Prix this year...I don't remember seeing one serotta. I did see...

Colnago's
redline's
Felt bikes
Gt
Surley
Seven
Steelman
rocklobster
Bianchi
Kona
Cannondale
Fuji
Specialized
Waterford!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Salsa
Empella
Ridley
Look
Vanilla
Vanilla
Vanilla
Giant
Guerciotti
Independent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Etc......

Oops, forgot Eddy Merckx and Pinarello ( Race winner)

shinomaster

12-08-2004, 11:47 PM

wow 77 humans have viewed this thread... No one has nuthing to say?? Hmmm.......Ben Serotta?? Speak!

Andreu

12-09-2004, 01:53 AM

....a man after my own heart (not "the Serotta is silly" bit....I have no opinion about that) but your love of cyclocross.

My first race - about 15 years ago now - was cyclocross. I was introduced into the sport of cycling by an ex-cyclocross professional who raced against De Vlaminck (in Belgium).
used my cyclocross for everything in the winter....road, mtbiking, cross, chain gang, hackbike.

I still yearn to get one..I kept the Ultegra barend shifters in the vain hope that I would get a cross bike again (IFs and Vanilla being particularly attractive at the moment).

I would love to race again but unfortunately my back would probably not hold up.

Good luck on your crusade.
A :beer:

dbrk

12-09-2004, 03:24 AM

I am predicting both RichardSachs and Rivendell bicycle riders on the podium at 'Cross Nats this year...Lugged steel goes faster! Let's see some CSi cross bikes, I say! With steel and crowned forks!! Wooowhooo!

dbrk

William

12-09-2004, 03:29 AM

I feel your pain Shino. :beer:

I'd like to see some Serrota cross bikes out there too. My problem lies more in the sizing dept though. Nobody seems to make anything bigger than a 60 cm for off the peg sales. That means custom for me. I was saving for a custom OS Ti Legend like TT's and AR's but an unexpected, last minute plane trip to your neck of the woods over Thanksgiving weekend put the kybosh on that for a while.

I'll race an Ottrott cross bike next year to spread the word if you want Ben Serotta!

Hey, I'll head up the "extreme stress factor testing dept" on said Ottrott cross bikes.....Ok? :confused: ;)

William :)

You think you�re slick, so smooth and quick
On the real side, you�re in a trip
Funk the dumb stuff (Funk the dumb stuff)

M_A_Martin

12-09-2004, 05:59 AM

Alright Johnny Boy....

You said typed two things in one post that don't go together:

"Impulse buy" and "Serotta"

You have to think about a Serotta before you purchase!

A few of the cross racers in our club run Legends...and I'm sure the East coast races have a few show up. Like it or not, where Serotta is getting bigger, they're based on the East coast. And, although I think it's more of a mountain bike thing (with the mtb, you have east coast style riding, North shore stuff, mid-west bikes...and the different small makers in these areas make bikes that excell in the terrain of their areas) Serotta might suffer some of that regional preference that shows up in the off-road world when it comes to cross bikes.

victoryfactory

12-09-2004, 07:38 AM

Because Serotta has their hands full making one-off custom 7K bikes for
well heeled connoisseurs. They can't be everwhere.
People who race track or cross aren't looking for jewelry, Serotta wants to
concentrate on their core business.
Remember last year when they announced a line of "stock" bikes? I'm not
sure they even had the time to produce enough frames for that project, let alone Cross, track, MTB,
tandem, etc. Just because you can make something
doesn't mean it is financially viable.
Trying to be all things to all customers can dilute your reputation too,
look at Schwinn, Martin Guitars, etc.

VF, his opinion only

shinomaster

12-10-2004, 01:57 AM

I understand that Serotta can't make a bunch of floor models for every shop in the country, but they could have a picture of one built up in a catalogue. They did back in 1999 after all. They had pictures of cross, touring bikes and even a guy on a track bike racing around. They also had geometry specs. Cross is more popular than ever so it's a wonder to me why they would now choose to exclude these bikes from their literature. :confused: :confused:

BumbleBeeDave

12-10-2004, 06:31 AM

I understand your frustration, but VF I think has it right. They have only so much production capacity and naturally they would want to make what sells best--after all, they are in business to make a profit.

That being said, it�s always been my understanding that they have the expertise to build--and are willing to build--just about anything you want. In fact, I think it DOES say that in their catalog.

If you really want a track or �cross frame, whether CSI or Legend, why not call Kelly and talk with him about it?

BBDave (�The King�)

PhatMatt

12-10-2004, 06:36 AM

Shino: I have been to many of the bigger East coast 'cross races this year and have seen maybe one Serotta being raced. I guess I am just trumpeting what others have already said...that being that Serotta is simply not interested in targeting the 'cross market. I also think that many riders look at cyclocross as a fun diversion from their regular riding schedule or a way to get one's feet wet competitively in a low-key way. Keeping the budget low is a good way to keep that low-key feeling, hence the large number of Frankenbikes you see at a 'cross race.

Finally, to make a rash generalization, 'cross riders seem to me to be real bike riders, meaning people who simply love riding their bikes no matter what the cost and what the sticker on the downtube says. For better or worse Serotta is making boutique bicycles (supremely functional and beautiful) that are incredibly expensive and are not in the budget nor the plans of the typical human, much less the typical cyclocross racer.

I would love to see what the gang would come up with if they aimed all of their talents and time at building a kick-arse 'cross bike but I am one of those geeks who is just dying to spend my money on things I don't need. Until that happens just appreciate all those beautiful Vanilla's you are treated to seeing out there. Other than the one that I can sometimes see between my legs I have seen but one other this year out on this side.

Good luck this weekend! Track down E-richie and say hello. He is stoked for his team!

Bruce K

12-10-2004, 07:23 AM

Matt;

There have been several Serottas at cross races on the East coast this year. The most prominent being Ben Jaques-Maynes' Sierra Nevada cross bike.

I would love to own a Serotta cross bike (I even promised Ben that the next Serotta I would own was as a cross bike).

My problem at the moment is that I do not want a Fierte steel cross frame. There is no Fierte Ti cross frame available. A Legend cross frame is out of the question cost/benefit-wise and even a Concours is teetering on the edge.

With many cross frames available for WELL under $1000 (Redline, Kona, Empella, even a Ridley) and even some of the best (without getting silly) available for $1500 or less, it is hard to pull the trigger on another Serotta when it will cost well over $2000.

I wonder how many beers I will have to ply Ben with at the next Open House to convince him to build me a Fierte Ti cross frame? :beer: :D

You know what they say, "Hope springs eternal..."

BK

shinomaster

12-10-2004, 12:31 PM

I assume that a Fierte cross bike would be about the same as the road version, so they wouldn't be losing money by making a bike with cantilever bosses. They would just have to put another picture in the catalogue. I know Serotta makes these bikes but few other people know. They don't market them. I think the cross bike market has changes since the mid to late 90's.

JohnS

12-10-2004, 01:08 PM

Why market more models when you are at you're production capacity with fewer. There are other brands that are known for their 'cross bikes. Serotta isn't. It would be different if they had excess capacity. That's the same reason there won't be any more Hors.

Bruce K

12-10-2004, 02:47 PM

Actually John, they do make cross bikes in the 3 versions I mentioned.

They are noted on the website under Models.

They jsut don't promote them very well.

I think shino is right in that the cross market is a growing area and since Serotta has racers on their bikes it would seem they are trying to promote them to some degree.

BTW, shino there is an upcharge for cross configuration.

BK

shinomaster

12-11-2004, 02:32 AM

I didn't know that Serotta was having a hard time filling orders...I figured that they would be happy to make any bike they offer..

Honestly I would rather have a two pound scandium frame than a four pound steel fierte, but the fierte would look cooler, and hey that is all that matters right??

Vancouverdave

12-11-2004, 11:18 AM

A woman on a Rivendell medalled in the Masters 40+ yesterday.
Many Vanillas, a few Sachs's, Waterfords, and other lugged bikes visible.
No Serotta of any material or construction visible. Note--disc brakes in very muddy conditions aren't a bad way to go!

Your_Friend!

10-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Shino_Master!

Maybe You Are

A Clairvoyant?!

How Very True!

Love,Y_F

Smiley

10-08-2007, 06:37 PM

JohnS

10-08-2007, 06:41 PM

I thought Levine fit you up and you built a concours cross rig? Did I miss something ?
Smiley, check his post date 12-10-2004

Ginger

10-08-2007, 06:45 PM

Yep Smiley,

You've been asleep and you need to go back to 2004 and read every single forum post up to today. You'll miss out on the deleted ones, but you'll get the gist.

you missed nothing.

DarrenCT

10-08-2007, 06:53 PM

hmm u make a good point.

maybe thats why u see so many IF cross bikes all over the place and no serotta cross bikes?

Ti Designs

10-08-2007, 07:02 PM

I've got nothing to say on the subject.

Yeh, right! When have I ever had nothing to say about a bicycle related subject??? I don't get cross racing. Cross racers try to be fit in December. Here in New England it's cold in December. I like to be fit in the summer when I can ride some place in shorts and a jersey, maybe stop at the swimming hole for a dip and eat lots of ice cream.

As for serotta cross bikes, I can think of a number over the years. There's the Serotta Slicker, the JP Swiss (don't know what that was all about) and a number of CIII's built for cross. Today there's the Fierte and HSG cross as well as a number of options in custom. It's not that Serotta doesn't offer them, it's that enough people don't buy them. One person screaming for something isn't the same as a real [paying] demand. Lots of people say Serotta cross bikes would sell, yet nobody even notices the HSC cross we have built up on the floor.

And while we're on the subject of consumer demands, why do ice cream shops close after Thanksgiving? First, there ain't much to give thanks for, knowing it's going to be 4 months 'til I can get another belly buster. Second, winter is the perfect time to sell ice cream - no more melting problems? Hey, you want cross bikes, I want ice cream. Which one tastes better when you eat it?

Clydesdale

10-08-2007, 07:02 PM

this summer to buy the wife a road bike. Man I miss it, but I always felt afraid to beat it up. It was a GP Suisse in metallic forest green... ok I have to stop before I tear up.

DarrenCT

10-08-2007, 07:05 PM

fyi, it was 89 degrees here in connecticut today.

becuz i can not ride, i spent the entire day playing xbox 360. :crap:

J.Greene

10-08-2007, 07:24 PM

And while we're on the subject of consumer demands, why do ice cream shops close after Thanksgiving?

Sorry to thread drift....

Ice cream shops don't close in FL. It's about the only culture we have have in this state.

JG

dauwhe

10-08-2007, 07:46 PM

And while we're on the subject of consumer demands, why do ice cream shops close after Thanksgiving? First, there ain't much to give thanks for, knowing it's going to be 4 months 'til I can get another belly buster. Second, winter is the perfect time to sell ice cream - no more melting problems? Hey, you want cross bikes, I want ice cream. Which one tastes better when you eat it?

+1

There are few things more pleasurable than walking down the street eating an ice cream cone when the temperature is below zero. People look at you like you're nuts, but it's not the hostile look you get for riding a bike in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. And you get to eat ice cream!

The texture is different, too, when the air is colder than the ice cream. : )

Dave

Bruce K

10-08-2007, 08:25 PM

Smiley;

No worries from here.

I actually did a double take when I saw this thread pop back up.

The Concours Cross and I were in the woods in the rain yesterday with a couple of friends.

I have raced it twice so far this season, if you call what I do racing, but will be missing my home event this weekend in Gloucester. I plan to be at Canton, MA, at least one day of Plymouth, and Shedd Park - Lowell, MA to round out my season.

And Ed, don't you start to get tired of the same roads all the time? I find that cross riding and attempting several races keeps my enthusiasm up as the weather deteriorates around here.

And no, I don't understand why all the good ice cream shops close around now.

And while we're on the subject of ice cream (and not really trying to highjack this thread) but, does anyone know who makes a really good fudge ripple anymore? Friendly's used to have a really good one, but it doesn't seem to exist anymore without other stuff thrown in.

BK

Ahneida Ride

10-08-2007, 08:42 PM

Serotta also makes a nice sport tourer .... the Rapid Tour ...

That is not mentioned either ! :confused: :no: :argue: :crap: :eek: :( :mad:

My Legend is a Rapid Tour.

Ti Designs

10-08-2007, 09:54 PM

And Ed, don't you start to get tired of the same roads all the time? I find that cross riding and attempting several races keeps my enthusiasm up as the weather deteriorates around here.

Who rides the same roads all the time? I have no sense of direction, I don't even ride in the same state most of the time. Come to think of it, since I put the fatties on my Surley fixed gear (it says right on the chainstays "fatties fit fine") I've been off road a lot. It's not cyclocross riding that gets me, I'll ride over almost anything. It's making the winter the peak season that I just don't get. I do ride in the winter, probably even more than the people racing angry - er, I mean cross. The difference is that I'm doing 4 hour tempo rides to build my endurance for 100+ mile rides in the summer. The cross season just seems backwards to me, summer = cycling season, winter = football season, fall = turkey season. Ice cream for me is a year-round event.

shinomaster

10-08-2007, 10:52 PM

Shino_Master!

Maybe You Are

A Clairvoyant?!

How Very True!

Love,Y_F

This_thread_is_so_very_ old

What_is_so_very_true_My_Penguin_friend?

shinomaster

10-08-2007, 10:55 PM

Maybe if serotta made really sweet looking lugged CSi cross bikes they would sell like hot cakes? :p

Too Tall

10-09-2007, 06:45 AM

Are You Barking Mad????

Ti Designs

10-09-2007, 07:51 AM

Maybe if serotta made really sweet looking lugged CSi cross bikes they would sell like hot cakes? :p

Hot cakes really don't sell in bike shops. Our trek rep used that saying all the time, and I never really knew what that meant. Our computer can do sales comparisons of items, so all I needed was some data on how hot cakes sell. I bought a dozen bags of hot cake mix from the Rocky Mountain Jelly Company (a name I would trust without a second thought) and put them in the display case. Not a single one sold. I wound up eating the loss.