Shimano wheels

[wheels]

Has anyone used the R500 wheels? I am looking at buying a set for training the wheel I have now are not true anymore. I am about 200 lbs and am wondering if they will hold up.

[dirtdigger88]

they will hold up i just think they will ride like crap :crap:

jason

[dave.delano]

Jason:

why do you think they will ride like crap? I'm a newby to Serotta and serious riding (3200 miles since last November) and need to know what to look for...

thx,

Dave

[dirtdigger88]

My personal opinion only mind you. The low spoke count wheels that have become popular over the last few years do not have the quality ride like a hand built set of 32 or 28 spoke wheels do. The Shimano wheel you are talking about are lower end and Shimano even changed the design quite a bit when they brought out the new DA 10 wheel set. I see that Nashbar has these for like $150.00 right now- yes that is cheap. I think you get what you pay for. I rode the 7700 version of these wheels for a while last year just to try them out. One of my biggest complaints what changing tires- it was next to impossible to do it due to the rim profile. I was commuting at the time- and I discovered the problem at 6:45 am while trying to get to work. It took me like 15 minutes longer to change the tire than it should have. Again, I just think that you would do better to find a set of Ultegra hubs mounted to Open Pro or the like. You have to ask yourself- why are these wheels marked down so much- if they were selling they would not be marked down. Those wheels also weigh near 1900 grams. I hope this helps.

jason

[bulliedawg]

Has anyone used the R500 wheels? I am looking at buying a set for training the wheel I have now are not true anymore. I am about 200 lbs and am wondering if they will hold up.

Wheels:

The majority opinion here, if there is a majority opinion, is that hand built is better than prebuilt and often at a lower price.

I've had good prebuilts like Cane Creeks and such, and they paled in comparision to my Speed Dreams. A lot of people are really high on the guy in Texas, I forget his name.

Good luck, and welcome to the best cycling forum on the net.

[dirtdigger88]

I picked up my new DT rims today- they look very nice. The shop said they built up well. I hope to try them out this weekend

Jason

[Chief]

Bulliedawg:

Joe Young is the Texas wheel builder I believe you were thinking of.

[vaxn8r]

I see that Nashbar has these for like $150.00 right now- yes that is cheap. I think you get what you pay for.
jason

I'll disagree. I think Shimano wheels are well built and are a very good value...except for DA which costs what everything else in that class does. Anyway, for $150....I challenge you to find a better wheelset....I doubt you can.

[dirtdigger88]

vax-

I did not say they were not well built nor did I say they were not a good value- I said they ride like crap and they do. I challenge you to prove that a 1900 gram wheelset for 150 buck rides better than Ultegras mounted to Open Pros- Notice I have not said Dt RR 1.1 yet because I am going out in about an hour to try them for the first time.

jason

[scottie]

My training partner had the previous model of these shimano wheels, He's about 170lbs and they went out of true very quickly and started to break spokes on a nearly weekly basis, which were hard to get and often left him riding my invincible 6 year old cxp30 for the time being. Get a cheap set of mavic cxp33s or open pros or even a set of velomax wheels, I'm about 185lbs and break everything I ride and the cxp30s have been the toughest wheels in the universe and I treat them like absolute trash! I'm currently riding on velomax circuits because I killed a set of kysrium elites after a year, they seem ok so far, time will tell....
so if you weigh more than about 160lbs don't ride the cheap shimanos they will die, ask the LBS people you trust, they will tell you the same!
Just my two cents.....

[vaxn8r]

It's really not proper to compare a prior model with the current one. For example some have trashed Rolf's current offerings because they once used his old "Trek" models. The two wheels have nothing in common. The newer Shimano wheels don't resemble the old one's either.

I haven't used the wheels in question but the new DA wheels are an awesome wheelset. If trickle down is real the 500's might be pretty good.

[vaxn8r]

The DT rims sound interesting. I don't think you can make as good a custom wheelset with most other clincher choices out there right now.

BTW, I've ridden some really expensive wheelsets that rode like "crap", if by crap you mean harsh. Money has something to do with it but it depends on spoke counts and rim depth to a large degree, not price. Based on how they they are made I don't expect them to ride like crap. For $150, if you can reallt find them for that, I may have to find out.

[dirtdigger88]

look in Nashbar right now those wheels are $150- Excel has them for $180. I got about 100 mile on the DT rims- I like them so far. I plan to give a more indepth review once I get a few more miles on them. Hey each to their own when it come to wheels- I will be the first to agree with you. I have a set of Ksyriums that I am not all that impressed with. I have never ridden "Low Spoke Count" wheel that I was all that impressed with. I am just a 32 spoke kind of guy. I can say that my DT's on my Chris Kings with DT Competition spoke and brass nipples came in with a 1550 gram weight. Everything I have seen so far is positive- and they are made BY Dt- now someone else.

Jason

[dirtdigger88]

BTW, I've ridden some really expensive wheelsets that rode like "crap", if by crap you mean harsh. Money has something to do with it but it depends on spoke counts and rim depth to a large degree, not price. Based on how they they are made I don't expect them to ride like crap. For $150, if you can reallt find them for that, I may have to find out.

I agree- but based on those factors- rim- rim depth- spoke count and size- these wheels are not the best choice even on the lower end.

Jason

[wheels]

I bought these wheels at nashbar at 150.00. I now have about 150 miles on them and am very pleased. They ride quiet smooth and have stayed true. I have mounted michelin carbon tires in 700x23. I weigh 210 lbs and am not realy concerned about a few grams of weight. These wheels replaced my old shimano 600 hubs with 32 spoke and mavic open 4CD rims. The new wheels also have a far better breaking surface to them (could not feel seam). To me these wheels were a bargin and look great!

[Ken Robb]

the ones I handled today at the LBS felt like they had sand in the bearings.

[wheels]

some people you just can't please unless it says dura ace or at least cost a fortune.

[dirtdigger88]

wheels- I realize you did not direct that to me- but I am going to run with it. Only a person with limited experience on MANY wheels would make that comment. The wheels you asked for are low grade designed for the "look" not for performance. They are really not much different than the old Rolf Vectors- I own a pair of those as well- they suck too. Do your a favor- take the advice I am giving you- save up another $100 or so and get a set of Ultegra or 105 hubs mounted to Open Pros (or my new favorite DT's- though the are a bit more than the Op) and enjoy the ride. Don't ask a question and then rip on someone for giving their opinion.

I will step down from my soap box now

Jason

[Ken Robb]

"Wheels" asked us if we had any experience with these Shimano wheels so I examined a pair at the LBS and reported that they had coarse-feeling bearings. I never said they would ride like crap or that he shouldn't buy them. Now he's sent me a rude semi-literate private email, I guess because I insulted the wheels he bought. FWIW I can tell no difference in perfromance between my 105/Open Pro wheels and my Ultegra/Open Pro wheels.

[eddief]

Hello,

I find this "discussion" interesting, for lack of a better word. So far everything you have stated has been pretty subjective; not an ounce of measurement or anything the least bit logical. I am not a racer and don't know if you are. But I have ridden thousands of miles primariliy on either Dura Ace or Ultegra Open Pros. One set handbuilt, one set machine built. I can tell no difference between them except when I lower the pressure to 100 and they feel great. I recently bought a pair of 2004 Cosmos wheels from CC, and they "feel" the same and/or as good as the other two. Besides the weight difference, which I think one might only ever be able to acknowledge in seconds over many miles, I believe there is basically absoulute minimal to no difference between the wheels you believe to be great and the ones you think are not. Belief is the operative word in so much hype about cycling equipment. I support that people should believe what they want to believe, but too often are blinded by it. I include myself in this lot, but try to stay vigilant and notice when I get on my "belief horse." My most dramatic antihype purchase to date was Tectro dual pivot standard reach brakes. About $40 for the pair and then added $7 Kool Stop pads = $47. I "believe" these are as good as any set of brakes currently available. I wonder if that is not the case as it relates to wheels? Just another opinion.

[christian]

[QUOTE=Ken RobbNow he's sent me a rude semi-literate private email, I guess because I insulted the wheels he bought.[/QUOTE]

Ken,

You can't please all the people all the time. Personally, I find "Post-purchase validation threads" utterly hopeless anyway. People buy something more or less dumb, and then post pictures of their green-to-orange-to-purple fade paint job and "vertically-compliant" bicycles, or orange 700x19 tires and ask forum members to praise their latest purchase. And then get peeved when a someone has a single question or concern. Sigh.

FWIW, don't get me started on that green bike in the pictures forum. Pretty color, but "Dude! Where's my headtube?" Bikes that small should have 571mm/559mm wheels... See, I should just shut up.

- Christian

[dirtdigger88]

eddief- look at my posts I say more than once this is my experience on these wheels- the question was asked- what do people think about these wheels- I offered my opinion. Take it for that- MY OPINION. You are very capable of buying any wheels you want- frankly I don't care. I consider myself to be very selective on my wheels- I have tried lots of wheels in my years of riding- I even get many of the "newer" wheelsets that the shop carry on loan to try them out. I personally can feel a difference in the ride of my Legend when my Ksyriums are on compared to a set of 32 spoke "built" wheels. If you cannot- then save your money and buy what is cheapest. Do not, however, tell me that I can't tell a difference. I am not even claiming that the most expensive wheels are the best- quite the opposite. When I have done the wheel comparisons I always use the same tire and tube combo and the same air pressue. I have not ridden a road bike with air pressure under 100 psi in my life. I weigh too much- it just does not work. Again- if anyone says they can not tell a difference in wheels GREAT- SAVE YOUR MONEY- Eddief- can you really expect me to believe that you cant tell a difference in wheels but you can tell a difference in the breaks that you use- PLEASE!!
I find it interesting that people ask for opinions- then get pissed when they get them. Lighten up folks- we are talking about bicycles. If this kind of post results in disrespectful PM's- this Fourm is not long for the world. It WILL get shut down like it did in the past- THINK ABOUT THAT!!!

jason

[eddief]

the point is not that I can feel the difference between one brake and another. The point that is true for me is that there is no difference. That is my point about the wheels as well. Seems like only a couple of people are pissed, and I am not one of them.

[madbiker]

the ones I handled today at the LBS felt like they had sand in the bearings.

I have had the exact same experience. Pure junk.
$150? Buy a set of Nashbar or 105 hubs, and some alex clincher rims, and some standard DT db spokes. There, you have a much better wheelset for the same money or cheaper.

[dirtdigger88]

the point is not that I can feel the difference between one brake and another. The point that is true for me is that there is no difference. That is my point about the wheels as well. Seems like only a couple of people are pissed, and I am not one of them.

I am sorry if I lumped you in with the wrong group- :beer: have a beer on me- just send the tab to the jerk

Jason

[dirtdigger88]

go to Bike.com

go to the tech section and pull up archives

there is an article on wheels from August 2001- I am not savy enough to put the link- I am sure someone else is- the article is a good read

Jason

[eddief]

there are two articles there interesting to read. Most of what is said would only make a difference to a racer. I have nothing against racers. In fact, I wish I was one. But I only read two factors that one could feel in wheels: stiffness and aero related to cross wind resistance. My guess is that a huge percentage of those on this forum are not racers, so these stats are interesting to read, but not too relevant to their riding.

It was great to read about the concept of stiffness as defined by deflection and the potential for the brakes to rub. My wheels are definitely stiff enough for my riding style (thank god).

Here are a couple of paragraphs that caught my attention:

"Any difference in acceleration due to bicycle wheels that is claimed by your riding buddies is primarily due to cognitive dissonance, or the placebo effect (they paid a lot of money for the wheels so there must be some perceivable gain)."

"Stiffness or deflection under load is the last performance variable investigated, and it does not significantly affect performance unless brake pads rub the rim. However, some people simply prefer a stiffer wheel because the perception is that stiffer is better. All of the wheels tabulated below are at the soft end of the wheel stiffness spectrum. Unfortunately, all of the rear wheels tested, except the Ksyrium, rubbed my rear brake pads (2 to 2.25 mm of clearance on each side) when fixtured in my old-school Titanium frame from the early 90’s. This rubbing occurred during low speed sprints and strong efforts on steep climbs. I weigh around 165 pounds and have never been considered a powerful rider, so these results were disappointing. "

I stand by my idea that most of us are under the placebo effect and not actually feeling any difference in our wheels.

[flydhest]

dirt, eddie,

Yep, very interesting reads. I'd be curious to know the general response to this from people.

http://www.bike.com/archives.asp?month=8&year=2001&lsectionname=6

[eddief]

"Overall mass is most significant when climbing steep hills at low speeds. However, the weight of the wheels is still only responsible for around 1% of total power requirements and rotational inertia effects are so small, that they can be ignored as a performance indicator."

There might now be a big run on those $150 Shimano wheel sets at Nashbar.

[wheels]

Ok lets end this thread, I didn't want to ruffle anyones feathers. I never thought the wheels would ride like top of the line wheels. I thought for the money they would be a decent wheel. I do plan on saving up for a better wheel. I am a heavy rider 200 lbs and am looking for durability. I am looking at DA hubs with either 36 or 32 hole in rear and 32 up front. It seems like the open pro's are pretty popular. Is it worth the extra for DA over Ultegra?

[eddief]

The articles dirtdigger pointed out, if they are to be believed, are right at the heart of riding a road bike. They suggest that the variables make almost no difference to the recreational cyclist. I think rider weight should be a consideration in the overall wheel parts selection. But for most, the articles seem to suggest that a $200 set of 32 hole hubbed wheels will have no perceptible difference from any other set; cheaper or significantly more expensive. Buy what makes you happy.

[dirtdigger88]

ok- I was wrong- those are wonderful wheels and I think everyone should go out and buy them. I think those wheels are so good that even a Huffy will feel like an Legend. Those wheels have bearing made of gold and they weigh practicly nothing- The gods of cycling envisioned the perfect wheel and from that the 500 model was born. Now does everyone feel better? If people like them so much- they will eventually run out of stock- then I will sell the next sucker. . .oh I mean cyclist my Rolf Vector Comp for a mear $1000. I give up :crap:

jason

[wheels]

ok dirt digger88 I stated a decent wheel for the money, I don't know why you made this comment. And for the record I never sent a private message to anyone. Lets keep this thing positive, its going the wrong way.

[Ken Robb]

yup, it wasn't a private message. It was an email response to this thread where you wrote "Ken Rob (sic) its people like you...........
when I read it here on the site I guess you realized it was rude and deleted that part. That's nice. BTW, I don't remember any members here ever telling a new owner of anything that he bought junk. We are too considerate to do that but when you ask for an opinion pre-purchase we all feel free to express ours. Heck I stopped at the shop just to look at those wheels you asked about because I hadn't seen them before.

[wheels]

Thanks Ken Robb I was having a bad day. What do you think about my new ? about my AL? You seem well informed.