A-Rod - An example for cyclists

[Viper]

We all lie. White lies, some darker. We all cheat, on or before April 15th. We all steal. Well those of us smart enough to ride steel.

"I did take a banned substance. For that I am very sorry and deeply regretful" he offered during a nearly one hour interview. For me, after saying those words, he didn't need to go any further.

Admitting the truth and apologizing, being a man, are perfection, a Triple Crown atmo.

Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis and others would do well to watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agjmtKW0I5w

[Charles M]

Yeah...

After going on TV and denying everything in interviews last year... And of course he stopped after the test. The guy blinked and eye flicked his way through it.




At least A-fraud didn't pull a Dick Virenqe and cry in his denial...

[bostondrunk]

I don't see anything special about his confession. Six years after the fact, when he knows he's screwed anyway....

[johnnymossville]

It also helps when the guy obviously isn't worried about where his next meal is coming from. It's nice he confessed and all, but this was an easy confession.

Right or wrong, Floyd and Tyler pretty much lost everything defending themselves.

[slowgoing]

Well, if he did stop using roids, he was good enough to compete without them. My question is what he would have done if he needed them just to stay in the game. Would he have continued taking them or just let his baseball career end? That may be the choice for some of the others that would have made stopping a bit harder to do.

[Viper]

Floyd and Tyler pretty much lost everything continuing their denial and lies.

^ Fixed. :)

A-Rod shouldn't have taken the drugs. He should've told the truth many years ago. He finally told the truth.

It doesn't depend on what the word is, means. And you can't moveon until you manup.

[rwsaunders]

Sly said that he'd kick A-Rod's arse in Rocky XX, HGH or not. :cool:

[akatsuki]

Admitting the truth and apologizing, being a man, are perfection, a Triple Crown atmo.

When did admitting the truth and apologizing suddenly become enough? Frankly it is not like he suffers or gives back all that he gained by his fraud. Sure he can be a big man about it now. I don't see him petitioning to have his games expunged, declared losses and returning his contract fees. That is what being a man is, is taking responsibility for your actions and also making right the wrongs you committed.

[Viper]

When did admitting the truth and apologizing suddenly become enough?

truth + humility = redemption

What you just described is the basis of many great speeches, novels and books. I suppose the very notion has been around this long:

[daker13]

Seems to me like strictly a PR move. He could confess and hope it blows over with his reputation still somewhat intact, like Pettite, or keep lying and end up like Clemens.

He lied when he could get away with it, and told the truth when his back was up against the wall.

[Elefantino]

We all make mistakes. Most are by omission.

Some are by comission.

I'm sorry (actually, I'm not), but Rodriguez, Marion Jones, Zabel and Riis, and everyone else who has tearfully (or not) confessed to using performance-enhancing drugs does not deserve an atta-boy (or girl) and an all's-forgiven card.

The difference between those who cheat thusly and confess when they're caught and those who cheat thusly and don't confess because they haven't been caught yet is merely one of timing and circumstance. They are all people who take banned substances to give them an illegal advantage over their peers and to fool the public that expects fair play.

They deserve the same sympathy we give (or don't) when a Jimmy Swaggart or a Ted Haggard comes forth with a blubbering mea culpa that begs forgiveness for doing those things that they have condemned to hell others for doing.

A-Rod, here's hoping you don't make the Hall of Fame. Or, if you do, that you're in the same shrunken-nuts wing as Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmeiro and Roger Clemens.

Field of dreams, indeed.

Disclaimer: I write this from a position of some, if antiquated, authority. I was a traveling baseball writer back in the Pleistocene age, when the highest-paid player on the team I covered made $962,000 a year. And nobody juiced. At least not yet.

[ButtedMoron]

name was on the top of the list of 104 and the 3 names leaked to S.I. were his, Bonds and Clemens. Nothing more than a P-R stunt trying to head the bad press off at the pass. His admitting doing it only in Texas is as believable as Basso's "I took the epo for the prep for the Tour and it had nothing to do with me pedaling away from everyone at the Giro"

[jbrainin]

A-Rod sounds a whole lot like David Millar, too. It's easy to confess when there's a smoking syringe being held next to your head.

[paulandmonster]

heard from the other 105.

[Ti Designs]

By a show of hands, who here raced agaist pros? You claw your way up, putting your life at risk to stay near the front in crits to get those upgrade points, you give up any hope of having a normal social life in favor of 6 hour training rides, but in the end you get there. Then there are two realizations. The first is that you can't compete with them. You thought you were a good enough climber, but while you're suffering on the climb a half dozen pros ride away like it's nothing. The second realization is that there's something you can do about it. So, on one hand you have the rules, with the list of banned substances. On the other hand - or should I say IN the other hand you have a couple of those banned substances. What do you do?

I don't watch pro sports any more. I know for every one of the big names who cheated there are hundreds of hard working guys who made the right decision who I'll never hear about. I spent my racing career hearing about the next great rider - that's funny, they weren't that fast last year, what happened? It's not simply the million dollar contracts that are wrong, they've stolen the careers of many other athletes who made the right decision in not cheating.

I say make the punishment fit the crime - the whole crime. Ban 'em from sports for life. Any sport. No more cycling, no triathlon comback, no cross sports, no golf, no fishing... Ban 'em from sporting events, take away their TV and VeloNews. Anything more physical than poker is out.

[Climb01742]

A-Rod sounds a whole lot like David Millar, too. It's easy to confess when there's a smoking syringe being held next to your head.

bingo. funny. a-hole (as coined by the nypost yesterday) was silent until SI outed him. and he agreed to be interviewed by espn. who sent softball pete gammons to ask him lame questions. bud selig has espn by the balls. they weren't about to ask a-hole any tough questions.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is all about damage control, long after self-control left the gate. Selig, et. al., will only understand the seriousness of the situation when it hits their bottom line and the seats at Yankee Stadium--and all the others--are empty. It's been a loooong time since I've cared about MLB. They've made themselves into a joke all the way around.

BBD

[R2D2]

Could you take this boring crap to a baseball site?

[Frustration]

name was on the top of the list of 104 and the 3 names leaked to S.I. were his, Bonds and Clemens. Nothing more than a P-R stunt trying to head the bad press off at the pass. His admitting doing it only in Texas is as believable as Basso's "I took the epo for the prep for the Tour and it had nothing to do with me pedaling away from everyone at the Giro"


Actually Basso said he never doped, but only intended to...




Climbo, I liked A-fruad better...

And yeah, the interview came off with Alex looking like an incredible cock. I'm suprised he didn't start laughing in some parts and even more surprised he didn't say thanks, thank you for comming and I'de like to say hello to all my fans out there...

I think there is a difference in some other admissions. I don't think Arod will miss a beat and he showed virtually no remorse what so ever. At least Millar and Zabel seemed genuinely upset about who they were and what they'd done.

[Viper]

Could you take this boring crap to a baseball site?

^ = :rolleyes:

This thread could also be on a political forum, President Obama commented on live tv last night, only hours after the story broke.

Illegal, enhancing drugs in sports and the notion it's related to cyling? Wow. Imagine that. And this is the key, imagination. It requires one or two-dimensonal thinking only, the concept that A-Rod's situation is parallel to say Tyler Hamilton or Floyd Landis doesn't even require three-dimensional thought.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Could you take this boring crap to a baseball site?

. . . such rage! :rolleyes:

Maybe just read the thread title and skip it, or are you joking and forgot to include the smiley?

BBD

[johnnymossville]

. . . It's been a loooong time since I've cared about MLB. They've made themselves into a joke all the way around.

BBD

Same here. I just can't get excited about the game any more.

[R2D2]

. . . such rage! :rolleyes:

Maybe just read the thread title and skip it, or are you joking and forgot to include the smiley?

BBD

Joking.
No rage.
I don't follow baseball.
Has MLB EVER suspended anyone for PEDs? Or is the worse thing an asterick?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Joking.
No rage.
I don't follow baseball.
Has MLB EVER suspended anyone for PEDs? Or is the worse thing an asterick?

Them mental image of you shaking your monitor violently and screaming was entertaining! :D

That's a good question. I don't recall ever reading that they have. But again, I don't follow MLB closely. Perhaps someone else here can give a more definitive answer?

BBD

[Ken C]

Then there are two realizations. The first is that you can't compete with them. You thought you were a good enough climber, but while you're suffering on the climb a half dozen pros ride away like it's nothing. The second realization is that there's something you can do about it.

I certainly agree with this point for the more marginal players where the difference is between being in the major leagues or not or being able to get the million dollar contract or not. It is hard for know what we would do if we were in that situation. Money and fame can do bad things to good people.

The difference with A-Rod (and even Barry Bonds) is that he already was a great player and already had the largest contract in baseball with Texas, the period to which he admitted to cheating. Although, who's to say that he wasn't cheating in Seattle though before the contract, and who is to say he is not taking HGH now since baseball can't test for that.

I was listening to sports talk radio, I am a big baseball fan, and one of the baseball writers who was being interviewed by the local guys actually said baseball should take a page from cycling. He was saying cycling with the two year suspensions and how the UCI would remove the cheaters as the winners etc was doing a great job of helping the sport regain credibility and that baseball should do the same. It was nice to hear from the same people who would regulary trash cycling in the past, actually pay a compliment.

Ken

[Viper]

Joking.
No rage.
I don't follow baseball.
Has MLB EVER suspended anyone for PEDs? Or is the worse thing an asterick?

I got kicked out of a Yankees-Orioles game back in 1999.

Crazy. A drunk mofo was on line at the bar, it's one of the few places in the Stadium where you can drink a real beer, Beers of the World (tier level or main, around section 2 atmo). It was 90*, high humidity and people were on edge. Yanks losing like 14-3 by the fifth inning had many upset. So this dude, he was upset cause some nice couples were ordering food and he had to wait. He was screaming about chicken nuggets, the fryer and not getting service. He called the couple's wife a really bad name, the kind where the husband would have to swing. The husband was a tiny dude. He stood there, terrified, but he said something in retaliation. The angry drunk smacked him and cursed the whole place up. Security came in, grabbed him and he threw two of them to the ground. He made a mistake, he tried to run past me. Duh. After he gets up he grabs the four beers I had bought and placed on the counter and throws them in my face. I'm both blinded by beer and trying to drink/lick up the suds before they hit the ground. I hesitate and then think, I've got to get this mofo. I dart after him, but my new penny loafers are now sopping wet and have no traction. Racing through the corridors of the stadium I can't get him. He heads into a section right near where I was seated. I get to my seat and my three friends look at me like *** just happened? Beer guys, go buy beer I say, it didn't work out for me. I realize I need to head to the men's room, take off my shirt and buy a Yankees tee-shirt to wear. We stop by Beers of the World and the ladies behind the counter offer free beer to me as they remember what happened. Cool. Me and my three friends hang there for a few innings, drinking and laughing about the scene. We head back to our seats and wait! Lo! There is the dude, the drunk from the fight. He's wearing sunglasses and a different shirt, but I can smell the skunk. I tell my friends to back me up and get security. This dude ripped my Brooks Brothers dress shirt, I'm out for revenge. I walk over to him and point to security...get this mofo! The drunk's girlfriend stands up and is yelling at me. Smack, out of nowhere she gives me five hands to the face. The entire section, hundreds of people are freaking out cause this comotion is blocking their view while hundreds more are laughing at the hand print on my cheek. The weasel/drunk stands up like he wants a piece of Viper. Lol. His wingman/dirtbag friend reaches towards me. With my left hand I grab his hair, which was like Ted Nugent's. I wind it up in my hand like ten times and then place my hand on the railing for balance. Dirtbag can't move, he's frozen in pain. I reach for the drunk with my right hand, grab his shirt and he literally rips out of it and runs away half naked wearing sunglasses. By now thousands of fans are more focused on this than the game. Ted Nugent is crying in pain. I don't care, I'm not moving till the drunk is found as security is chasing him down. Ted Nugent is almost crying, literally as my left hand turns purple. If I can't get a new Brooks Brothers shirt, I'll get $75.00 worth of hair for my time. Ted Nugent is crying now, let go of my hair! I won't. So then a Bronx cheer erupts as thousands of fans cheer...Let go of his hair! I let go after a minute or so. Security comes over, cops too. We talk about the whole thing. They've been looking for the drunk since the fifth inning, he's now in cuffs. But the cops tell me we have to leave too. They feel bad about it, but what can you do.

I want to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee fan atmo.

"Concession Stand Beer: Budweiser, Bud Light, Miller Lite, and Miller Genuine Draft are available in various forms and various prices. The 20-ounce plastic bottle is now close to $9, for instance. In addition, there's a Red Hook stand near the popcorn lady (see below); Beers of the World by Section 1 in the Tier level ($7.50 buys you a 12-ounce glass of Yuengling, New Amsterdam, Sapporo, Bass, or Corona); and my picks, the Foster's Oil Can stands around Sections 20 and 21 on the Tier level, and the red Hook guy behind home plate just inside Gate 6. A 25-ounce can of Foster's (in a cup) is a remarkable $9.75 currently, and has remained so two years running. The Red Hook price has drifted steadily upward, but a 24-ounce draft of their Golden Ale - not a great beer, but more drinkable than most of the beer here - runs $8.75 for 2006. Peroni is also available at that price. Not only that, but there's never a line for them, and you're limited to the two-beers-at-a-time rule just like the folks in the 16-ounce lines. But at least it's drinkable stadium beer.

I've heard tell of a stand in the food court on the Field Level that serves a 16-ounce Brooklyn Lager for $9+. It's probably the best beer you can buy there, but it's also the worst-priced.

My pick used to be the popcorn lady on the Field level behind home plate (Gate 4). Now the cheesesteaks there, courtesy of Arthur Avenue, are really quite good, and the lines are short to boot. If you crave popcorn, $6.50 gets a nice big bag of popcorn on the Tier level down the third-base side. Sure, there's a $5.50 size and a gargantuan $10 souvenir bucket, too, but, uh, no.

I do want to take a moment to remember that dear displaced popcorn lady, who, when she was in a good mood or recognized you, would put the $6.50 bucket in a plastic bag, then shovel a couple more scoops of popcorn in for good measure. It took a while to find her, but she's still going strong in 2008, at a popcorn stand on the Field Level, near Section 9.

[Ed. Note: For 2006, edited some concession prices and availability. For 2008, add 50-75 cents to everything: $5.75 Cracker Jack, $5.25 hot dogs, $9 vendor beer...]"

atmo: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:D13XlBGlLPwJ:www.epinions.com/review/sprt-Venues-Yankee_Stadium/content_182810545796+yankee+stadium+beers+of+the+w orld&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

[fiamme red]

It's been a loooong time since I've cared about MLB. They've made themselves into a joke all the way around.Same for me. But I still follow the NFL, which, fortunately, I know is steroid-free. ;)

[Johny]

Hey at least A-Rod didn't use steroids when he was dating Madonna.

[Climb01742]

Hey at least A-Rod didn't use steroids when he was dating Madonna.

but was she?

[fiamme red]

Hey at least A-Rod didn't use steroids when he was dating Madonna.Was Basquiat using steroids when he banged Madonna with famous regularity when she was in her early 20's?* ;)




* Reference is to an old Competitive Cyclist write-up for the Pegoretti Responsorium.

[Ti Designs]

The difference with A-Rod (and even Barry Bonds) is that he already was a great player and already had the largest contract in baseball with Texas, the period to which he admitted to cheating. Although, who's to say that he wasn't cheating in Seattle though before the contract, and who is to say he is not taking HGH now since baseball can't test for that.


I think there is a difference in some other admissions. I don't think Arod will miss a beat and he showed virtually no remorse what so ever. At least Millar and Zabel seemed genuinely upset about who they were and what they'd done.


It's easy to say they were already a great athlete or they seemed really sorry, but let's look at the victom of all this cheating. Is it the fan? I don't think so, what do they have invested in the sport? It's the other players who are cheated. They put in the time and effort to play the game clean, only to have their results stolen by those who cheat. Does anyone remember who came in 4th in a race that Millar or Zabel won? They didn't get to stand on the podium. Taking away the victory does nothing to change that. Being sorry doesn't do much, and who they were before they cheated has little to do with it. Bottom line - they knowingly cheated other athletes, knowing full well what it takes to make it to the top in that sport. A two year ban is an insult, out of all sports for life, nothing less.

I'm about as straight forward, non-cheating a rider as you're ever going to find, so you can take this as the message the sport is sending to new riders. Looking at what I know and what I've seen, knowing the frustration of not being able to compete with guys who shouldn't be as good as they are, I would probably cheat if I had it all over to do again. How do you put in 20 hours of training a week, do intervals until your lungs give out, climb hills until the pedals woun't go 'round any more, and know that it's not going to be enough? Screw it! Two years lost is nothing. I lost more than that when I got divorced (and I wasn't cheating then either).

[Eric S]

"Beers of the World ...But at least it's drinkable stadium beer...lots of good Stadium beer info snipped

Cry me a river! Just try to get a decent beer in a stadium/watching a team owned by Anheuser-Busch! Sheesh...

Not that InBev will change things much. Even a New Belgium Fat Tire would have sufficed! (There! Back on topic!)

E

[GuyGadois]

Wasn't he just on national TV (60 minutes) saying he NEVER took any performance enhancing drugs? This guy is no model for any sport. He is simply now an astericks.

[kipjac]

Seems to me like strictly a PR move. He could confess and hope it blows over with his reputation still somewhat intact, like Pettite, or keep lying and end up like Clemens.

He lied when he could get away with it, and told the truth when his back was up against the wall.

+1 to Daker13; there's no honor in this, and no integrity. The only reason he confessed is because he knew he was in deep doo-doo and soon to be uncovered.

[Johny]

but was she?

hitting a lot of home runs with him?

[MarleyMon]

How much time is too much time spent on Serotta Forum?
When you hear A-Rods apology and think -
"Well, I bet it'll make Viper happy".

What is so noble about saying "I used to cheat and I lied about it until I got caught."?

[William]

Let's tie up congress with this carp again. Heck, they've got nothing better to do right now. :rolleyes:

Ban em. End of story.




William

[rustychisel]

. . . such rage! :rolleyes:

Maybe just read the thread title and skip it, or are you joking and forgot to include the smiley?

BBD



I dunno about rage, but it just isn't that easy. This is something so inconsequential that I don't even know what or who you're talking about (though I get the flavour, of course).

[rwsaunders]

Interesting perspective from the former Governor of Minnesota:

Jesse Ventura has always been one to speak his mind — whether it was as a professional wrestler, the Governor of Minnesota or a concerned citizen. But MLB commissioner Bud Selig may not like what Ventura had to say over the weekend.

"In the early '90s, the federal government came into pro wrestling and tried to put (WWE Chairman) Vince McMahon in prison for steroid use of wrestlers," Ventura told NBC's affiliate in Denver. "My question is: They've now determined 104 baseball players failed their steroid test in 2003 — 104. They indicted Vince McMahon, why aren't they indicting Bud Selig? He's the head of baseball, it happened on his watch."

The baseball controversy hit fever pitch last week when Alex Rodriguez admitted to using performance-enhancing drugs for three years between 2001-03. Rodriguez was one of 104 players that tested positive in a 2003 test that was supposed to be anonymous and merely for informational purposes.

In 1993, McMahon, who was CEO at the time, was indicted amid wrestling's steroid controversy. In 1994, he was put on trial, accused of distributing steroids. He was found not guilty.

"What you have here is two sets of law enforcement," Ventura told the TV station. "One set: 'Oh, pro wrestling, let's go after the head of that and put him in prison for steroid use.' And pro wrestling is not even an athletic competition. We went to court and said we're sports entertainment. Here, you have a legitimate athletic competition with 104 guys using illegal drugs — cheating — and where's the indictment of Bud Selig on this?

"They indicted Vince McMahon. He had to beat it with his own lawyers or go to prison," Ventura said. "How come Selig isn't being treated the same way?"

For his part, Selig had harsh words for Rodriguez last week after the Yankee star's admission.

"What Alex did was wrong and he will have to live with the damage he has done to his name and reputation," Selig said. He also said Rodriguez "shamed the game."

Ventura, who admitted in the '90s that he used steroids while he was a professional wrestler in the '80s, doubts that Selig and the other MLB owners were ignorant of the apparently rampant steroid use.

"You can't tell me for one minute that Bud Selig and the owners didn't know," Ventura told the TV station. "They were profiting from it. Baseball was dead in the water until the big home run race between (Mark) McGwire and Sosa — Sammy — and that rejuvenated baseball, made all the profits so Bud Selig could make $17 million a year."