953 v. 853 for a Clyde

[indyrider]

Hey all....Posted last week IF v. Strong steel and have made that decision(will let everyone know when I post my first photos!). I was stressing over a few bucks between builders and have now found myself dealing with quite a few more bucks over materials.

I now have entered myself into the next quandry of 953 v. 853 for the best road feel and responsiveness for the money. Basically, am I really going to notice the ride quality between the two and for $1200-1500 . Being a larger rider, really thin wall tubing worries me a bit.

I pretend to ride fast with my buddies, but mostly solo training and the spring to fall weekend organized rides. I dont race and dont need the best, but the allure and whispers of the magic carpet ride of 953 is gripping me.

Anyone care to comment?

As always, thanks in advance for your valued responses.

Indy

[maddog17]

well, how big of a guy are you? i haven't ridden a 953 yet, but i do own an 853 build and love it. currently i'm at 215 lbs.

[Dave B]

Hey all....Posted last week IF v. Strong steel and have made that decision(will let everyone know when I post my first photos!). I was stressing over a few bucks between builders and have now found myself dealing with quite a few more bucks over materials.

I now have entered myself into the next quandry of 953 v. 853 for the best road feel and responsiveness for the money. Basically, am I really going to notice the ride quality between the two and for $1200-1500 . Being a larger rider, really thin wall tubing worries me a bit.

I pretend to ride fast with my buddies, but mostly solo training and the spring to fall weekend organized rides. I dont race and dont need the best, but the allure and whispers of the magic carpet ride of 953 is gripping me.

Anyone care to comment?

As always, thanks in advance for your valued responses.

Indy


Not to worry, I talked to Joe (IF) and we talked a lot about heavy riders. The 953 is stronger for its weight supposedly more then ti. The weight difference in a 56cm frame was like almost half a pound :banana: :banana:

go for 953 if you want! 853 is also awesome, but takes more maintenance then the 953

[indyrider]

well, how big of a guy are you?

Aahhhh yes...Down to business. I'm 6'5" and 240 and expect to be at 215-220 by the 1st of June....

Used to ride steel IF which was fairly stiff and had a custom Moots that I couldn't get to go for the life of me.

This frame absolutely needs to be be able to get my big *ss moving!

[Peter P.]

Aahhhh yes...Down to business. I'm 6'5" and 240 and expect to be at 215-220 by the 1st of June....

Used to ride steel IF which was fairly stiff and had a custom Moots that I couldn't get to go for the life of me.

This frame absolutely needs to be be able to get my big *ss moving!

The frame's weight is IRRELEVANT. When combined with the rider's weight, even a one pound difference in frame weight isn't even worth talking about.

And I hope you're joking when you say you expect the frame to get your @#! moving. It ain't the bike that's gonna do it.

The tube composition will have nothing to do with the frame's road feel and responsiveness. The tube's diameter and wall thickness WILL. You should be putting your faith in the builder to make the tubing choices once you've expressed your concerns. When I ordered a new mountain bike frame in August, I told the builder what my existing frame was made of (853) told him my body weight, riding strengths and weaknesses, and expectations of the new frame, and left it at that. If you don't trust the builder's judgment then you picked the wrong builder.

The only benefit I see in 953 is no concern for rust and some classy paint finishes with non-painted chainstays/seatstays like older european frames.

Save the money.

[paczki]

The frame's weight is IRRELEVANT. When combined with the rider's weight, even a one pound difference in frame weight isn't even worth talking about.

And I hope you're joking when you say you expect the frame to get your @#! moving. It ain't the bike that's gonna do it.

The tube composition will have nothing to do with the frame's road feel and responsiveness. The tube's diameter and wall thickness WILL. You should be putting your faith in the builder to make the tubing choices once you've expressed your concerns. When I ordered a new mountain bike frame in August, I told the builder what my existing frame was made of (853) told him my body weight, riding strengths and weaknesses, and expectations of the new frame, and left it at that. If you don't trust the builder's judgment then you picked the wrong builder.

The only benefit I see in 953 is no concern for rust and some classy paint finishes with non-painted chainstays/seatstays like older european frames.

Save the money.

+1

I have two 953 frames. One is set up in exactly the same geometry as a Spirit/Life steel bike. The 953 is a fixie but the ride is exactly the same. The advantage is rustproof and light (and only a little lighter than a Spirit/Life mix). But the frame weight will be irrelevant for anyone but a wee little rider. I would say you would have to weigh about how much Stuart Little did to notice the difference.

I am 6'3", 190. I got it for the rustproof and the cool look.

[indyrider]

And I hope you're joking when you say you expect the frame to get your @#! moving. It ain't the bike that's gonna do it.




Partly. My engine was in pretty good shape at time and for the life of me, I couldn't get that frame to snap and go!

[Ahneida Ride]

I rode Kelly Bedford's CSI. Last CSI made.... made by Kelly for Kelly ...

Kelly and I are Clydesdales. This bike was amazing ....

It's the builder that counts, not the material.

[fierte_poser]

I got it for the rustproof and the cool look.

Is it really 'rustproof'? I thought the stainless tubesets were more corrosion resistant than other steel tubesets, but not truly 'rustproof'. Can't remember where I read that though...

[djg]

Maybe ask the builder what he (or they) would do differently depending on your choice of 853 or 953 and how you might or might not notice?

[David Kirk]

Aahhhh yes...Down to business. I'm 6'5" and 240 and expect to be at 215-220 by the 1st of June....

Used to ride steel IF which was fairly stiff and had a custom Moots that I couldn't get to go for the life of me.

This frame absolutely needs to be be able to get my big *ss moving!

953 is very nice stuff because it's very strong. The material is of course no stiffer than 853 or 725 or 531 for that matter. The material being as strong as it is allows the tubes to be thinner than 853. This makes it lighter than 853 and inevitably more flexible than 853. The tube walls on 853 are a bit thicker so it's a bit heavier and stiffer than 953.

My guess is that your Moots wasn't stiff enough for someone your size and weight (very difficult to impossible to make a Ti bike stiff enough in your size) and that's why you couldn't get it to "go".

For someone your size and weight I feel you'd be better served by 853 as it will be a bit stiffer and carry your weight better. The added 1/2 poundish will not matter in the slightest when you consider the overall weight of the rider/bike combo. Since it's not going to be lugged you also have the option of having the tubes be oversize (1.250" top and 1.375 down tubes) to get the stiffness needed and crisp handling.

my .02

dave

[paczki]

Is it really 'rustproof'? I thought the stainless tubesets were more corrosion resistant than other steel tubesets, but not truly 'rustproof'. Can't remember where I read that though...

Sorry dude, corrosion resistant. They do form a thin but non-invasive surface rust but you can get rid of it with a Scotch brite pad. I was told this by Lloyd from IF.

[rphetteplace]

iirc correctly 953 tubes are only available in 1 diameter for each tube. No cherry picking for builders to use larger diameter tubes. go with 853

Carl Strong is cheaper in 953 than IF, but I'm going to steer you that way until I'm blue in the face.

[indyrider]

Thanks for the thoughts fellas!

I'll stick with 853, save some dough and still have a wife(life) :cool:

[Jack Brunk]

Thanks for the thoughts fellas!

I'll stick with 853, save some dough and still have a wife(life) :cool:
The 953 will burn inside you until you give in. 953 is a fantastic alloy and will rival and exceed ti in ride comparison. It will haunt you and you know it my friend. your wife will understand.

[SoCalSteve]

The 953 will burn inside you until you give in. 953 is a fantastic alloy and will rival and exceed ti in ride comparison. It will haunt you and you know it my friend. your wife will understand.

Jack Brunk is a mean, mean person (but he is right)....

Just sayin'

Steve

[rustychisel]

Jack Brunk is a mean, mean person (but he is right)....

Just sayin'

Steve


Yeah, he is a mighty experienced provocateur.

I'd go with his advice.

[johnnymossville]

The 953 will burn inside you until you give in. 953 is a fantastic alloy and will rival and exceed ti in ride comparison. It will haunt you and you know it my friend. your wife will understand.

LOL. one of the best sales jobs I've heard yet, and that's a compliment.

Repeat after me,... Nine-Five-Three! Nine-Five-Three! :)

[indyrider]

Jack et al....You guys are killing me :no:

I would own all of JB's rigs that he passes on to the lucky folk here, if as Dave T. says, "Just My Size". For that, my wife thanks you!

953 is on the table as long as you guys offer me counseling after the secret is out :argue: Its not like my other hobby, photography, where I can pick up a new lens or two without her noticing...I'm in dangerous territory here, but you only live once, right?!

[jimcav]

I happen to have one, and love it, but it rides very similarly to the S3 steel bikes i have (vanilla) and had (waterford r33). it is a lightweight steel frameset and that is how it feels. I like my IF 953 best because of its handling--which similar to the r33 as it is a more race oriented geo.

I do personally feel there are some general differences in frame materials--but often these are subtle. example is riding a steel waterford and then cannondale caad4/5 and then a caad 9 (less difference between the CAAD 9 and steel than the CAAD5--to me anyway). I've had several Ti bikes and always felt they add a steel-like ride quaility to what essentially to me feels more like an aluminum feel. I've had older steel--such as 853, my 1993 serotta coors, colnago master, etc. To me the light steels like S3 and 953 add more snap and stiffness to the steel ride. Anyway, that is because i weigh 165-170, but mainly because the bikes were designed for racing.

good luck--one thing you need to ask yourself--and it is Jack's point: can you stand to be on what you've probably ridden before (853) and be content, or are you the type who will wonder about 953 and wish you had that?

you will have a great ride either way--just try to make sure it is the ride you desire

[djg]

Meaning no disrespect to Jack(who has ridden a few bikes), if Dave Kirk (who has designed and built a few bikes) told me that a guy my size would probably be better off with a bike built from one of the available 853 tubesets, I'd take that pretty seriously. The fact that he's recommending a frame, from the builder of your choice, that will actually save you more than a grand . . .

[maddog17]

just thought i'd throw this into the mix.. Zanconato is building a special lugged Max frameset as a limited edition.

[rphetteplace]

Meaning no disrespect to Jack(who has ridden a few bikes), if Dave Kirk (who has designed and built a few bikes) told me that a guy my size would probably be better off with a bike built from one of the available 853 tubesets, I'd take that pretty seriously. The fact that he's recommending a frame, from the builder of your choice, that will actually save you more than a grand . . .

If Dave Kirk told me to buy a Strong I'd do that to...