Winter wear

[campyguy]

Does anyone have any experience with the Craft Elite WS Winter Jacket versus the twice as much ($) Castelli Insolito Radiation jacket? I'd be willing to make the one time investment in the Castilli due to it's versatility. But, the warmth factor is most important to me.

[paulrad9]

You might want to rethink getting a jacket. The best option for cold weather is layering what you already have.

[wgp]

I respectfully disagree - a good winter jacket can make all the difference without having to resort to many layers (that translate into bulk). I jumped on the CBike 25% off Assos sale in late December, and got a Fugujack for around $350 - a masterpiece of clothing, which allows me to wear just a Craft baselayer underneath and be warm down to 25 degrees.

Below that, I add another baselayer, and I'm toasty to the high teens.

It's the feet that get me when it gets that cold!

So I say a really good winter jacket is very worth it -

[KonaSS]

I don't have any first hand experience. I almost bought the craft jacket earlier this year based on this recommendation (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=WHATS_NEW&PRSET_VERSION=1&WHATS_NEW.ID=242) from Competitive Cyclist.

World Cycling (http://www.worldcycling.com/) has a 40% mens apparel sale. Looks like they have the craft jacket in stock in a small or medium. Great deal if it fits you.

[Nil Else]

Fugujack for around $350 - a masterpiece of clothing, which allows me to wear just a Craft baselayer underneath and be warm down to 25 degrees.

cyclefixx got a few sizes in blk pretty cheap too...

[xjoex]

Layer is not the best solution for high intensity activities like running or cycling. Sure all the layers are breathable, but when you are wearing 4 layers all on top of each other, it traps all the moisture in.

I am a big fan of cycling in a Castelli softshell jacket with a lightweight long sleeve tech tshirt underneath. I have worn this combo from 30F-10F and been really happy with it on. Basically any softshell would be nice.

While I'm at it, I recently stopped wearing balaclava's and switch to a winter cycling cap and a neck gator. I found it much easier to regulate my heat with a gator as opposed to the hat.

The right gear can make the ride much more enjoyable.

-Joe

[mgm777]

I live in CO and ride all year. I have the Craft Elite jacket. When it in the 20s here I use the Craft jacket over a heavy insultating piece. Lately, I have been wearing it over an Assos 851 when it is very cold. This combo keeps me very toasty into the low teens. The Craft jacket is not a form fitted piece. IMHO, without a heavy insulation piece, it would be too big. I have a Medium, and at 160 and 5'10, the jacket is bulky. After wearing a bunch of Assos stuff, I prefer the form-fitted feel of Assos. I'm guessing the Castelli jacket is probably cut more like Assos than Craft. I too would like to try the Fugujack, but right now, even on sale, it is cost prohibitive.

[thwart]

Had a medium Craft, and would agree in terms of fit. I'm 150, 5-10, and it seemed to be designed for someone around 5-11 or so and 170 lbs.

On the other hand, it is a very high quality piece of bikewear, and also quite warm.

[palincss]

I respectfully disagree - a good winter jacket can make all the difference without having to resort to many layers (that translate into bulk). I jumped on the CBike 25% off Assos sale in late December, and got a Fugujack for around $350 - a masterpiece of clothing, which allows me to wear just a Craft baselayer underneath and be warm down to 25 degrees.

Below that, I add another baselayer, and I'm toasty to the high teens.


What happens if it warms up during the ride?

That might not be much of an issue in some places but around here it's not at all unusual to have a 25 degree temperature at ride start, warming up to the mid 40s by noon. If you're warm at 25 with just a base layer, where do you go to stay comfortable at 40?

[happycampyer]

I have the Craft WS jacket and Assos jackets (fuguJack, 851, etc.) among others, but have not tried the Castelli jacket. I agree with wgp that the fuguJack is in a class by itself. In the 20's, it only requires 2 layers where every other system I've tried requires 3. As xjoex said, the more layers, the more moisture gets trapped. The fuguJack does an amazing job of keeping you warm and ventilating moisture at the same time (hence the name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu)). To palincss's question, if I had a sense that the temps were going to rise significantly during a ride, I wouldn't wear the fuguJack, but would instead wear the 851 with a vest or light jacket over top that I could take off and pack away. By the same token, I wouldn't wear the Craft WS jacket on that kind of day either, for two reasons: what's underneath it probably wouldn't be warm enough, and the WS jacket isn't exactly packable. I suppose I could take off the WS jacket and the next layer, put the WS jacket back on and stow the second layer, but that's a PITA. The Castelli jacket might work, but I'm curious just how breathable that liner is.

Although none of this stuff is inexpensive, relatively speaking, the Craft jacket (and much of what Craft makes) offers very good performance for the $$ imo, especially when you get it on sale. Now that one can find the fuguJack on sale in the mid $300's, it too is a good buy, relatively speaking.

Btw, there are actually 2 different versions of the fuguJack (unofficial—it's a production run thing): one with the central back panel made with the "airBlock" fabric, and one with it made with a more breathable roubaix fabric. The one with the airBlock fabric is best on the coldest/windier days.

[wgp]

Interesting happycamper, about the 2 versions of Fugujack. I just checked mine, and it's the Roubaix black fabric NOT Airblock 851. I looked on Competitive Cyclist website, and their Fugujacks have the 851 fabric over all of the back but the very bottom.

I'm sort of pissed, as I already have an 851 Airblock jacket, and would have preferred the heavier fabric all over. I wonder if that's why it was less money than usual - a scaled down version? I may call CBike for an explanation. Still, the jacket is indeed muchwarmer than the 851 Airblock, so maybe I should let it go.

Just wondering, though ... wish I was told by CBike that this was an alternate version.

[happycampyer]

They are the same price, and a lot of places that sell them don't realize that there have been production differences since the jackets are packed in boxes. That's why I thought I should mention it here...

When I spoke to a salesperson a Lickton recently (when they had a big sale a month or so ago) and specifically asked, he went and checked and he happened to have both in the color I wanted. I would've ended up with a random selection otherwise.

One advantage of the roubaix-backed version is that it has a center pocket. The airblock ones don't—the airblock fabric goes all the way down (check the CC website again, you can see).

[Climb01742]

another big thumbs up to assos fugujack. probably the single best piece of cycling clothing i have.

[campyguy]

Thanks for the input everyone. I do appreciate it. It seems that "layering" vs. good tech wear will be debated for some time. Having done the layering this past weekend, I found it problematic. What to do with the extra layers when the heat bulids up? I had no place to stash them and ended my ride sooner than I would have liked. This is my first cold weather riding season, so it seems trial and error is the path I'll follow for now. But, gee whiz. That Castelli sure does look sharp!

[Bob Loblaw]

+1 for layering.

Your layers should all have zippers. If you get too warm, unzip one part way. I have a cheap $60 Canari wind shell with sleeves that zip off, and it's my favorite, most versatile piece of riding gear.

In my experience, I tend to go lighter on the upper body and bundle up my legs. Making sure your legs are warm is good for the knees and helps keep your feet warmer too. A hat under the helmet is key as well, and if you get too warm, stashing it is relatively easy and makes a huge difference in heat dissipation.

The thing is, everyone is different. I moved from California to Connecticut two years ago, and winter riding was a new experience for me so I did a lot of research and reading, plus drawing on cold weather motorcycling experience. None of it helped as much as trial and error. It took a while to figure it all out, but now I just look at the temp and know what to wear.

BL

[jt2gt]

They are the same price, and a lot of places that sell them don't realize that there have been production differences since the jackets are packed in boxes. That's why I thought I should mention it here...

When I spoke to a salesperson a Lickton recently (when they had a big sale a month or so ago) and specifically asked, he went and checked and he happened to have both in the color I wanted. I would've ended up with a random selection otherwise.

One advantage of the roubaix-backed version is that it has a center pocket. The airblock ones don't—the airblock fabric goes all the way down (check the CC website again, you can see).

The latest version with the center pocket has a black version of airblock fabric not roubaix. From the outside it may look like roubaix, but it is not...a look on the inside of the fabric shows it is the white airblock fabric just without the pindot outside look of the usual black 851 fabric. I have that version and it is very nice. JT

[happycampyer]

You're right—the black center fabric has the same inside backing (white waffle weave) as the regular airblock fabric (i.e., with the white dots on the outside); only the pocket is made of much lighter roubaix fabric. Even though the black center fabric has the same backing as airblock fabric, it is a bit stretchier than the regular airblock fabric and I find that it is slightly less insulating, which I prefer sometimes depending on the conditions, so it's not as if one is necessarily any better than the other IMO.

[tomwd3]

Had a medium Craft, and would agree in terms of fit. I'm 150, 5-10, and it seemed to be designed for someone around 5-11 or so and 170 lbs.

On the other hand, it is a very high quality piece of bikewear, and also quite warm.

Yeah, I'm 5' 10" 170. I've got the Large.
It's a good fit for me and I wear it with just a craft base layer when it's in the 30's. I'll add a jersy underneath it's in the low 20's or worse.
It's well designed. The pockets have good access w/heavy gloves on.
I like that the red really sticks out when you're riding in the winter and most drivers around here aren't expecting to see cyclists.

[EastCoastRoadie]

I have had great success with the Vermarc WindTex jacket. I wear a dry fit layer under it and an under armour mock turtle, and I am toasty down to the low teens. I recently picked up a pair of Sugoi firewall 220 bibs very cheap, and I have to say I am impressed. They are very light, and I have worn them with nothing else in the low teens without problems. My guess is the firewall 220 jacket would offer the same benefits, and at a fraction of the price of some other bigger name manufacturers.

[jt2gt]

You're right—the black center fabric has the same inside backing (white waffle weave) as the regular airblock fabric (i.e., with the white dots on the outside); only the pocket is made of much lighter roubaix fabric. Even though the black center fabric has the same backing as airblock fabric, it is a bit stretchier than the regular airblock fabric and I find that it is slightly less insulating, which I prefer sometimes depending on the conditions, so it's not as if one is necessarily any better than the other IMO.

Yes...perfect explanation. That is the latest version IMHO. I think they did that in response to overheating complaints and not enough pocket complaints. The material is still insulating like regular airblock but lets a bit of the heat out/in easier than complete airblock.

BTW...I have also had the Craft Elite WS jacket and prefer the fit and feel of the Fugu. I am 5'8 145 and wore medium in both and the Fugu fits much better/snug with not flapping or puffing. I could have probably gone with a small in the Craft. If you can find someone letting go of a lightly used Fugu on ebay or somewhere else pick it up. That is what I did and worth it.

JT

[campyguy]

Thanks again for all the input. Again, I'm going to experiment and see what works for me. This past weekend was 60 degrees and a no brainer. But, winter's not over yet.

By the way, if anyone IS interested, "brandscycle.com" has the Castelli Insolito for $349.99 on close out (in RED - small and xlarge only).

[happycampyer]

Anyone curious about the Castelli radiation jacket should check out bonktown. They have it for $233 now, and it's bound to come up again...

[happycampyer]

So, out of curiosity, I ended up getting a Castelli Insolito jacket from Bonktown. Wore it this a.m. with just a baselayer on a 2-hour ride, 35 degrees and very windy. It's actually very nice. Not as warm as a fuguJack and a baselayer, but warmer than an 851 jacket and a baselayer. The radiation liner didn't cause any sweat buildup. Definitely worth the $233 I paid for it, and backcountry.com still has it for $300 ($400 for red).