Concours to Cross?

[CaliFly]

Hello all,

I recently picked up a CdA from this board, and it has stolen all the saddle time from my Concours. I'm too attached to this Ti bike to sell it. Is there any way I can convert into a cyclocross bike? I'd pretty much be sticking to dry fireroads, and I'm not planning on racing or mudding. I'm even considering making it an off-road SS.

Thoughts? Advice? Admonishings?

[Bruce K]

The biggest problem would be tire clearance on the Concours.

My road Concours has very limited tires clearance and there is pretty much no decent CX tire that would work that I know of.

I have seen a few cross bikes with road calipers and other than really muddy conditions they would probably work OK.

I had my Concours set up as a single speed for a while and that was a blast and a half !!

BK

[CaliFly]

The biggest problem would be tire clearance on the Concours.

My road Concours has very limited tires clearance and there is pretty much no decent CX tire that would work that I know of.

I have seen a few cross bikes with road calipers and other than really muddy conditions they would probably work OK.

I had my Concours set up as a single speed for a while and that was a blast and a half !!

BK

Thanks, Bruce.

Yeah...I have a Langster fixed/ss that's loads of fun. That's why I was thinking of building one for the dirt. What do you reckon is the widest I can go? I found a list of cross clinchers:

Vredestein Campo
Michelin Jet and Sprint
Ritchey SpeedMax
Continental Twister Pro

Do I simply measure the gap between my seat tubes and subtract 15% (or so) for good measure?

[rwsaunders]

I had a Concours that was built with canti studs and worked with 28-32mm tires....that was a fun bike.

Is the OP's rig a roadie specific build? If so, you might fit up to 25's on the rear, but the fork and the short reach calipers will be the limiting factor in the front.

[CaliFly]

I had a Concours that was built with canti studs and worked with 28-32mm tires....that was a fun bike.

Is the OP's rig a roadie specific build? If so, you might fit up to 25's on the rear, but the fork and the short reach calipers will be the limiting factor in the front.

It's a road-specific build. If I changed out the fork and brakes, the limiting factor becomes the space betweeen the seat tubes and the location of the brake bar, correct?

[rwsaunders]

Yessir.

[Bruce K]

I'm not sure most of the tires you listed would work clearance-wise.

I have a set of Schwalbe CX Pro Lights you could have for a song (mostly shipping costs) that might give you a fairly aggresive tread and the clearance you need.

They are definitely smaller than my Michelins but I would try to get some real dimensions to be sure.

BK

[CaliFly]

I'm not sure most of the tires you listed would work clearance-wise.

I have a set of Schwalbe CX Pro Lights you could have for a song (mostly shipping costs) that might give you a fairly aggresive tread and the clearance you need.

They are definitely smaller than my Michelins but I would try to get some real dimensions to be sure.

BK

I just read that the Michelins are indeed larger than advertised. Were I to use these Schwalbe tires, could I get away with using my current road brakes? I just discovered I need mounts for canti brakes.

And again, I'm not going crazy (for now). I'd just like to get my feet a little dirty. :cool:

[djg]

For me, a cross bike is a bike suitable for cyclocross racing -- although I think that Serotta has built all-rounder type bikes that might work fine, I believe that the typical Serotta road bike of recent years (more than a decade at least, if not forever) doesn't have nearly enough clearance for 700 x 30c cross tires, let alone 32s or 34s, and that's forgetting about brake choice issues. Without doing major surgery on the bike -- expensive and a kludge in any case -- I don't see a solution.

OTOH, if what you really want is an all rounder that can handle dirt roads, chip seal, etc., you might do fine with a road bike. I'd say you can find out for the price of two tires, and you only need one for a preliminary experiment. Supposing that you don't already have very tight clearance on 23s or so (in which case that's no good really), if you ride tubulars, get something like a vittoria evo pave 27. If you ride clinchers, maybe something like a conti in a 28. Try the tire on a front wheel and then on a back wheel (the order doesn't matter) -- inflate, spin the thing, and see if you've got adequate clearance. If so, you may be good to go. Get a second tire and hit the routes you had in mind to see what you think. I realize that lots of folks want a larger tire for this type of riding, and maybe you do too, but it seems to me that this is a place to start and at least there's a shot that you'll be happy with the results.

[CaliFly]

A little birdie directed me to this site. (http://www.bikeman.com/content/view/1161/33/) Looks like a fun project if the numbers work out.

I agree that true cyclocross requires a frame better suited to the sport...but I'm hooked on this current frame. So we'll see what happens.

Any more suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

[andy mac]

Any more suggestions are appreciated. Thanks!

yep.

[hansolo758]

Not to be a wet blanket, but as far as the technical aspects of converting your Concours:

1. The frame would have to be cleaned, inside and out, with special solvents. Titanium can't be welded to give a strong joint unless the tubes are absolutely clean, and your usual cleaners won't be enough.

2. Then there's the welding: besides the canti mounts themselves, would you need different cable stops or brake hangers?

3. Then there's the issue of another fork (a 'cross fork), and whether the trail would work with you current frame's geometry. Would the head tube and angle you have work with the taller crown to axle distance of a 'cross fork?

I suspect all this would run you pretty near the price of a used ti 'cross frame, if not more. I think you'd be better off finding a different use for your Concours than turning it into a 'cross frame. Perhaps, as people have suggested, a fixed gear (using an ENO hub)? But to be sure, you could always ask Serotta and see what they think. Good luck with the project. Let us know if you do end up making it into a 'cross frame.

[Bruce K]

CF;

The tires are pretty true to their 700X30 listing so they might not work but as I said, for the cost of shipping you could try them.

They definitely will NOT clear an F1 fork.

Not sure what you have on your frame.

BK

[CaliFly]

CF;

The tires are pretty true to their 700X30 listing so they might not work but as I said, for the cost of shipping you could try them.

They definitely will NOT clear an F1 fork.

Not sure what you have on your frame.

BK

I've got an Alpha Q Pro (circa ~2003) fork. Your offer is very kind, Bruce. I'll give it a shot.

I figure if I really really like it, I'll go crazy and give Sacha a call. The SS/fixed gear route probably is the right way to go with this Concours...but that would render my new Langster London obsolete. Then again, that might not be a bad thing.

[CaliFly]

So I've pretty much been convinced that I'll be converting my Concours to fixed/SS...though I'll still try the 700x30 cross tires.

So my question now goes to the conversion itself. I currently have an FSA 53/39 up front and no wheels. I have two choices here (as I see it):

1. Sell the FSA and buy track specific cranks. Buy a wheelset with flip/flop hub (I really like the option).

2. Convert the current crankset to a 44t inner ring. Buy a road wheelset and convert to SS only.

Option 2 gives me the flexibility to convert back to geared (if I don't sell my FD and RD...both Chorus), but won't allow a fixed configuration. And what do I do with the outer chainring? Can I replace it with a cross chain guard?

[Bruce K]

Yes and adding the chain guard can give the bike a very clean look.

BK

[djg]

If you have a rear wheel built up around a white industries ENO flip/flop hub you should be pretty close on chainline with the outer ring of your road crank (with a campag chorus or record double, it's almost dead on). That means that a track chainring on the outer ring of your crank will work with short bolts. Add a track chain, track cog and one-speed freewheel in the back, strip the shifters and derailleurs, add a set of brake levers (cane creek are pretty good and inexpensive), and you're good to go.