Buying second hand ?

[flyingscot]

As I have alluded to in previous posts I would love to get a Serotta as my next bike
Thinking now it should be a Legend as I want to experience a pure Ti bike
It seems there is a vibrant second hand market for Serotta’s – that may be the best way to start for me

My question is this:

One of the key selling points of a Serotta is that it is custom built for you – your body, your goals
Weight, stiffness, geo etc
Not to mention aesthetics

If you buy a second hand Serotta surely you are missing out on all of this ? In fact you could even be buying a worse bike for YOU than if you bought a second hand Moots/Merlin etc

Is this correct or am I being too simplistic?

Many thx

[dbrk]

I am of two minds about this.

First, of all the Serottas the Legend is the one I think where the tubes make the greatest difference in the ride. I have owned two Legends that fit me perfectly and neither was made for me. I've not loved the ride, _perhaps_ because when a bike gets to be the size I like the frameis often overbuilt, too stiff for titanium as far as I am concerned. I love the look, I like the ride but for the obvious way the frames are so tough.

Second, if the shoe fits...I mean, it would be hard for me to have Serotta make me a Legend that fit better than the ones I have had (including the yellow one on eBay now). So maybe this is a bike that is just not for me in terms of my weight, strength, preferences for the feel.

Legends have always had the reputation, for many, many years now, of being the stiffest, the most stalwart of the titanium bikes. Sure, Serotta tells us they can tune it however because they've spent a bloody fortune on tubes and technology. Every single Legend I have ever ridden (you don't wanna know, but it's a LOT of bikes...) has been stiffer than any other titanium bike I have owned, and this is not my preference.

Certain bikes, certain company's bikes imho have a certain character. I love the look of the Legend, just like I love the look of all Serotta tubes but I think I have reached the conclusion that I like the ride of some better than others. My preferences are towards the CSi, a bike I have loved in every iteration. So I think, it depends and largely on you. Many folks love their Legends, no doubt about that and will tell you that Serotta nailed it (Ahneida comes to mind!)

dbrk

[bulliedawg]

I bought my CSi and my Colorado II before that second hand. I was happy with both purchases, and continue to love my CSi. I knew I wanted a Serotta steel bike, and was very patient when I purchased them. I bought the CII on eBay and the CSi through the Forum. I made sure that both of them were standard Serotta geometry, and attractive to my eye.

Like you, I have often wondered what it would feel like to have a bike custom built for me. Obviously, neither of these were. But many knowledgable Forumites have often said that standard geometries can be made to fit everyone but the most radically proportioned riders. And unless you are of radical weight (extremely stout or extremely skinny), I don't think you need to worry so much about having the ride of the bike custom tuned.

For me the cost/benefit analysis just didn't make sense. But I'm also a person who pays cash for low-mileage used cars, rather than buying new and taking the depreciation hit. But, as with a used bike, I don't always get exactly what I want. But sometimes I do, when I have the time and patience to keep looking.

[Smiley]

TOO SMIPLISTIC , first my guess is your handle is because you sail a marvelous boat called the Flying Scott ( well maybe ) , I have sailed this vessel that is built in Western Maryland . Anyhow yes you are very smart to look at the used market for Serotta's . First get a professional fit to know exactly what size frame you need and stem length and bar type etc. Next realize that in the Ti design you'll find that Serotta typically oversized the tube set for sizes 57 and up . Thats not to say that they would not oversize a smaller frame set IF the client was 200 lbs and rode a 53 cm frame , the opposite could be true too as I had a client with a 58 cm ST but a 50.5 TT and she wanted a less stiff frame so we did not OS the chain stays or TT . So these are weird cases and not the norm. So jump into the water and start shopping once you have a frame in mind you can always call Serotta James the Deputy Sherriff and tell him the serial number and he'll tell you if this was an odd design or not . Best of luck from your new buddy the Captain (Prindle 16 catamaran , Laser 28 monohull , Too manny windsurfers to count , and currently a Precision 21 Trailerable monohull ).

[keno]

If you have ever had a bike fitted for you by a good fitter and the bike still fits, you have some going-in measurements against which you can compare the geometry of the target bike. If not, you could find such a good fitter and pay him to do a fit in order to get your ideal specifications, which should allow for adjustments within a range depending upon the improvement or not of your riding over a period of time. (The fitter can also tell you what kind of tubes, trail, etc. would be for you.) At a minimum, you want to know that whatever you are buying can at least be adjusted through appropriate use of stem, bars and seatpost to put you in a good riding position without distorting the other aspects of the bike's handling and leave room for the future. You want to be sure of the measurements, which I would trust only to the folks at Serotta to tell you.

Assuming you can get a good physical fit, next would be the handling characteristics. Get the serial number and contact Serotta in order to find out, in addition to the actual specifications, about the tubes and the characteristics of the rider it was built for and what the bike was to be used for, if that information is available. Let's say you weigh 165 and are a recreational rider and the bike was built for someone weighing 205 and is a racer. Despite the fact that the geometry works you could be very unhappy with the bike.

Aesthetics can be changed with a new paint job, but once you pay someone to break down and rebuild the bike, unless you can do it, you're spending on the order of $400-500 + for good work to change the aesthetics.

The components all matter much to many riders, some being less sensitive than others. Take them into account. If you are a gearhead and have lots of stuff around, or can buy cheap on eBay or rbr, for example, and can build up a bike in your sleep, it's all about the frame. If you have to start replacing components and it's not your thing, the LBS can take its pound of flesh major league.

Try to find something in your geography circle, say within 200 miles, and go ride it. Maybe get someone on the forum to go ride it for you if further away.

In general, if you are a person who is quite sensitive to various aspects of your ride, you have to take all the steps one way or another if you want to be happy. If you are more easily pleased, buying used is less problematic.

Personally, I think it's a crap shoot unless you put in your time and know real well what you are doing or have some good guidance. I know folks who do buy used bikes and do lots of research on them before buying and end up satisfied.

For the extra money to buy new, you have fallback if something goes wrong. Depends how much extra that is worth to you.

Having, myself, bought two custom bikes, and knowing my own PITA aspects, I can see no way other than new. Some might say if you don't like what you bought just sell it. If that's in your nature, not a bad way to go. Maybe it's a few hundred bucks for the experiment, assuming you bought right.

Good luck with whatever you do. If you have the bucks, go for the new would be my bottom-line view.

keno

[dbrk]

TOO SMIPLISTIC , first my guess is your handle is because you sail a marvelous boat called the Flying Scott ( well maybe ) , I have sailed this vessel that is built in Western Maryland . .

I don't know much about boats but I know something about the history of bicycles. Flying Scot was a famous Glasgow brand, much coveted by those who honor this work and know a good thing when they see it.

db(renfrew)k
that's the middle name, scot's enough? the mother's side: all italian...

[flyingscot]

Captain
Sorry to dissapoint you

DBRK is right - I was born and bred in the fine city of Glasgow

[djg]

It's entirely possible that you'd prefer one custom-built for you--maybe significantly. But I bought my Serotta (CSi) used and I've been happy with it. It's a standard geometry, feels stable and solid under me, and the fit is just fine. I'd tend to worry more about buying somebody else's custom if I saw funky things in the geometry. And of course if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit. But this is a perfectly good way to get a very nice frame that very might well work just great for you at a much lower price than retail, not that there's anything wrong with retail if that's what you want.

As for refinish: You may just not care at all, especially with a Ti frame. But to the extent you do, it doesn't have to add THAT much to the cost. I sent my used CSi to an established Michigan frame-builder. He removed the headset for me, prepped and painted the frame with a panel paint job and contrasting head tube. Added the Serotta decals of my choice and did clear coat on top. He also hand-sanded the new reynolds ouzo pro fork I'd sent along and painted that too. He re-installed the headset and shipped the whole thing back, well packed, for about 280 bucks, which included the shipping. I have no criticism for those who want to spring for a ne plus ultra paint job, but there are experienced professionals out there who will do a nice looking, professional job, for a very reasonable sum.

None of this is meant to be any criticism of a new CSi purchase and it's entirely possible that I'd be thrilled with one were the tubes custom chosen for me and me alone. But I'd had my eye on Serottas for literally decades (a guy on my college team had one that I liked) and I wanted one and I, personally, felt much happier spending what I spent (about 1100 for a used frame with new custom paint and matching brand new fork) than the cost of a new one. Had I left the paint and fork as they were, the whole thing would have been 600 and some odd bucks.

[eddief]

I tried a couple of used/and or production bikes before I went to a custom. I even paid for a fit session and bought bikes that matched those fit recommendations. Still wasn't happy with the fit. Found another fitter, Steve Rex, and he fit me and then built a frame to match. He's either really damn good, or I'm lucky or some combination thereof. His design fits like a glove. My dimensions are nothing too out of the ordinary, so one would think off the rack would work...and to a large degree it does. My just built Rambouillet is dialed in really close to the Steve Rex and the Rambouillet is close in every way. After a couple of hundred miles on the Rambouillet, I like it a lot. My first all steel, well fitting bike. But as close as I can dial it in, it just doesn't meet the bar set by the fit and feel of the Rex. This is not at all meant to be a commercial for Rex. More, it's a description of my experience with with many variables involved in fit, fitters, designers, geometry, my riding style and the wonder I find in the biking and bicycles.