OT: Auto recommendations

[musgravecycles]

Being intentionally vague here--We're looking to buy a new [to us] car. I've been driving vintage Land Cruisers for decades and am ready for something fun to drive--a "drivers car" if you will.

Here are the rules, this should be fun:

Vintage matters not to me, I am handy with a wrench
Must be 4-door (we've got 2 kids)
Open to anything under $20k

Thanks, this should be fun.

[johnnymossville]

A couple year old bmw 3 series maybe.

[William]

Being intentionally vague here--We're looking to buy a new [to us] car. I've been driving vintage Land Cruisers for decades and am ready for something fun to drive--a "drivers car" if you will.

Here are the rules, this should be fun:

Vintage matters not to me, I am handy with a wrench
Must be 4-door (we've got 2 kids)
Open to anything under $20k

Thanks, this should be fun.



Whaa..... :crap:





;) :)
William

[dancinkozmo]

Any Recent year Saab 9-3 Aero...

[flickwet]

pre-1974 ALFA Romeo Berlina, a smart mans four door vintage Ferarri, If newer and more reliable matters the Bimmer (2002-325) or Saab 900 series. ALFA parts are cheap,and plentiful The Berlina, GTv, and spyder all share significant fundamentals and parts. NO other car with 4 doors will deliver the pure driving experience that the Berlina does, The national club is VERY active and well organized.

[christian]

What boring suggestions!

Sixties Jaguar Mk II, naturally. Given you want a sub-$20k one, it'll be useful to know how to spin a spanner. Bonus if it's a 3.8 S type manual with O/D, but really one can't be picky.

[EDIT]Apologies to flickwet: His suggestion is not boring.

[johnnymossville]

boring maybe, but the 2 kids part brought out the practical in me. sorry! LOL

[bigman]

2005 E500 Wagon 4matic

[Ken Robb]

I agree with the 1992 and onward 3 series BMW with manual transmission. I'll be selling my 1998 M3 sedan soon for $9,000 or so. It even takes any of my bikes to 63cm by removing the front wheel and folding down the rear seats.

For $20,000 you can get a 2005 model but not an "M".

BMWCCA is a very large and active club with lots of tech support gratis to members.

[L84dinr]

1996 Chevrolet Impala SS

or a volvo p1800 station wagon.

[William]

1996 Chevrolet Impala SS


Funny, that was the first thing that popped into my head after I read the OP.


Saab Turbo SPG.




William

[L84dinr]

Funny, that was the first thing that popped into my head after I read the OP.


Saab Turbo SPG.




William

I have wanted a '96 for a long time. JUst never pulled the trigger. Would really like the wagon version. Airbags front and rear, remove all chrome and extraneous trim and tint the windows... wow i am a teen again.

stay hard!

[paulandmonster]

i grew up in a family of 4 1966-1976 we had a 66 mustang convertible from 76-85 we had a 76 280z not the 2+2 we just sat on the ledge in the back and i was 5 11 then. hell we drove nyc to maine and back many times plus 3 kids and a driver plus hockey equipment for years. i agree the alfas are real nice.

[jhcakilmer]

BMW 5 series (sedan/wagon)......more space than the 3 series, and equal amount configurations. X5 if you want a more cross-over, definitely easier getting the kids out of a vehicle that sits a little higher. Maybe even the X3, great reviews, little small.....fun to drive....I drove a manual version and really liked it.

Was not impressed with the Volvo V70, nice driving car, but not the "drivers car" like the bwm. My 95 525iT has twice as many miles, smaller engine, no turbo, and no AWD, and I'd choose it everytime!

[musgravecycles]

Whaa..... :crap:





;) :)
William


You'd pick up on that wouldn't ya. I simply meant something more spirited behind the wheel. I'll post a cruiser pic to make amends big bro...

Good recomendations so far. We're kinda interested in a '91 325ix that's local. It's been rebuilt bumper to bumper and I can pick it up for $2000, which leaves some $$ to mod it with. Wife wants a mini, but they're awfully small for a family of 4. Ken tell me more about your M3.

[ThasFACE]

I'll be selling my 1998 M3 sedan soon for $9,000 or so.
Seconding an e36 M3 sedan.

I just sold mine. Great car, but mine didn't have fold-downs and bike racks are a no go for me. Probably gonna try to replace it with another M3 sedan but this time I'll get fold-downs.

[jhcakilmer]

You'd pick up on that wouldn't ya. I simply meant something more spirited behind the wheel. I'll post a cruiser pic to make amends big bro...

Good recomendations so far. We're kinda interested in a '91 325ix that's local. It's been rebuilt bumper to bumper and I can pick it up for $2000, which leaves some $$ to mod it with. Wife wants a mini, but they're awfully small for a family of 4. Ken tell me more about your M3.

Dude.......a mini for a family of four, that's only going to grow. Certainly a fun car to drive, but not practical. Even the 325ix will be small, you'll enjoy it at first, but trying to pack it for a trip a couple times, and you'll be reconsidering your decision.

[alancw3]

unfortunately i am not of a size to fit in one (6'4") but i would do a scion A based on your requirements.

[fierte_poser]

E39 5-series wagon.

Find an 1999 or 2000 528iT w/ manual transmission. Great utility, very comfortable, not as fun to drive as a 3 series, but more sophisticated, fun to wrench on, good gas mileage.

Bias Note: I own a 1999 528iT w/ manual transmission.

[maunahaole]

Impala SS is a go. However, a 94 or 95 is a better way to go, as they have the OBD1 computer, which is easier to reprogram. The 96 uses OBD2. Really clean ones with sensible modifcations can be had for a lot less than 20K. The potential weak spots are crumbly electrics, which turns power mirrors, windows and locks into PITA bugaboos.

[hochstes73]

Used Subaru WRX STI
4 doors
300+ hp
All wheel drive for the NC weather
Low to mid 20's MPG

Otherwise I agree with the BMW 3 series comments...

[snah]

Should be able to find an Audi S4, '04 or '05. AWD and V8. Possibly a BMW 540, wagon or sedan.

Good luck!!

[William]

You'd pick up on that wouldn't ya. I simply meant something more spirited behind the wheel. I'll post a cruiser pic to make amends big bro...




Ahhhh, feeling much better now. ;)




William

[maunahaole]

If you want something more spirited behind the wheel, let William's dog drive. ;)

[William]

If you want something more spirited behind the wheel, let William's dog drive. ;)

He's got his own rig already...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/418184030_e0061b5988.jpg?v=1195936387


William ;)

[musgravecycles]

but trying to pack it for a trip a couple times, and you'll be reconsidering your decision.

That's what this is for bro ;)
*sorry for the crappy cell phone pic

I cruised through the Subaru dealership 2 nights ago after closing to see what they had--A beautiful '05 STI was there, but it was gone by 10:00 the next morning when I went back to drive it. Just drove a Mini Cooper S today, fun little car to drive with an amazing amount of room in the front (car seats don't fit in the back though).

[Climb01742]

E39 5-series wagon.

Find an 1999 or 2000 528iT w/ manual transmission. Great utility, very comfortable, not as fun to drive as a 3 series, but more sophisticated, fun to wrench on, good gas mileage.

Bias Note: I own a 1999 528iT w/ manual transmission.

+1
i owned a 99 540 wagon. an amazing engine. amazing car. until it snowed. but that vintage of 5 series wagons are a great size and handle really well. the only time you know you're driving a wagon is when you look in the rearview mirror.

[William]

That's what this is for bro ;)
*sorry for the crappy cell phone pic

It's like...like...like looking in a mirror! :cool:

I cruised through the Subaru dealership 2 nights ago after closing to see what they had--A beautiful '05 STI was there, but it was gone by 10:00 the next morning when I went back to drive it. Just drove a Mini Cooper S today, fun little car to drive with an amazing amount of room in the front (car seats don't fit in the back though).

Mini Clubman?

http://www.thetorquereport.com/spy_shots_mini_clubman_k77_1-thumb.jpg


http://images.paultan.org/images/MINI_Clubman_Launch_Large.jpg

http://image.motortrend.com/f/9493665/112_0802_09z+2008_mini_cooper_s_clubman+interior_v iew.jpg


William

[soulspinner]

A4 quattro.

[jimp1234]

a 98' BMW M3 4 door would be a nice car (I'm sometimes sorry I sold mine) but if it was owned by someone who flogged it to death, you might be up for some costly repairs in the not too distant future. Now that they're selling the 4door M3 again, I'm thinking I may want to look for another one in a few years. You might look at an Infiniti G35 4door maybe 2005 or 2006. Handling not quite up to BMW/Audi, but a great motor particularly when paired with the manual tranny.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE= Ken tell me more about your M3.[/QUOTE]
I bought it with a few thousand miles in 1998. White/ light gray leather,up-graded stereo 6 cd changer, limited slip differential. It has 134,000 miles, runs great, never hit, tired leather on the driver's seat, very good paint except for the usual scratches on the rear bumper cover and a little missing clearcoat on the hood where the carwash screwed up sap removal. new brake pads and rotors, aftermarket 17x8" wheels all around with nearly-new Goodrich tires or a set of original M3 wheels BUT--instead of the 17x7.5" in front and 17x 8.5" in back this set is all 8.5". with medium-worn Michelin Pilots.

My computer shows 23.2 MPG for my mixed around town driving over several thousand miles. It gets 28mpg on road trips. Carl Nelson (bimmerdoc.com) or 858-488-1555 has all records for service since 1998. I'd feel fine selling this to a neighbor I would see everyday. It's a good one. Hey fly in, have a vacation, drive home for a fun road trip?

[snah]

If you like the Subi's, could also look at the Legacy GT Limited, lively 250hp turbo and enough room for car seats.

[dancinkozmo]

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/994908441.html

[William]

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/994908441.html


Dude!! That and a few rolls of duct tape and you're golden!! :banana:





William ;)

[zap]

Mentioned earlier. '05 MB E500 wagon.

[BCS]

Keep the Land Cruiser for your family, bikes, etc.
Buy a Porsche 911, model year 1999-2001 may be in your budget. There is no better drivers' car ATMO. I have kept my 99 Suburban with 120,000 miles and recently got a great deal on a used 911 cabriolet. You will not regret it.

[ThasFACE]

a 98' BMW M3 4 door would be a nice car (I'm sometimes sorry I sold mine) but if it was owned by someone who flogged it to death, you might be up for some costly repairs in the not too distant future.
I'd be more worried about the kind of flogging that was done.

For example, I bought my M3 from an instructor at VIR who had tracked it many times; the car gave me no trouble at all in the 30-ish thousand miles that I had it.

If we start talking about the kind of flogging that happens at the hands of jerky street-racer kids then it's a different ballgame. Damn kids.

[texbike]

pre-1974 ALFA Romeo Berlina, a smart mans four door vintage Ferarri, NO other car with 4 doors will deliver the pure driving experience that the Berlina does...

Nice! Impeccable taste you have there buddy! The Berlina is one of my all-time, favorite cars. I gave up vintage cars a few years back, but continually keep an eye out for a nice Berlina. It is probably the one car (or maybe a really nice early 2002 or Volvo 122s) that would have me driving vintage again.

As for something more modern that fits the OPs requirements, the e39 5 series w/a manual trans is hard to beat. Extremely nice ones can be had for less than $15K all day long.

Cheers,

Texbike

[RPS]

Being intentionally vague here--We're looking to buy a new [to us] car. I've been driving vintage Land Cruisers for decades and am ready for something fun to drive--a "drivers car" if you will.Fun to drive? That’s kind of vague in itself. Compared to vintage Land Cruisers a modern minivan with much higher power-to-weight and lower center of gravity could be much sportier to drive. I guess I’m wondering how you weigh sporty versus practicality (i.e. – trading some speed for some functionality).

My only other thought is that $20,000 is sometimes not the same as $20,000. Initial cost is not the entire cost of ownership, so comparing a “new” $20,000 relatively simple car with years of warranty is not the same as buying a $20,000 “used” car which was built based on much more complex and expensive components but has now depreciated down to the same value. Unless it has a lot of warranty for a used car, repair costs (even the parts if you wrench yourself) will likely be much higher if the initial cost was higher. In my experience buying a $60,000 Porsche or BMW that has depreciated down to $20,000 is usually more expensive than buying a new $20,000 Honda.

[dancinkozmo]

Dude!! That and a few rolls of duct tape and you're golden!! :banana:





William ;)

Dont forget to buff with your "Sham Wow" to bring out that classic car patina !!

[Ken Robb]

a few of my Serotta-pals asked me to send them pix of M3. I just took some but rather than use bandwidth here I will send them to you if you send me your email address.

[flickwet]

Nice! Impeccable taste you have there buddy! The Berlina is one of my all-time, favorite cars. I gave up vintage cars a few years back, but continually keep an eye out for a nice Berlina. It is probably the one car (or maybe a really nice early 2002 or Volvo 122s) that would have me driving vintage again.

As for something more modern that fits the OPs requirements, the e39 5 series w/a manual trans is hard to beat. Extremely nice ones can be had for less than $15K all day long.

Cheers,

Texbike
beware all, the cognescenti are everywhere. look out for italabitsarinis.

[sailorboy]

Audi always makes a bit of a 'I'm different' statement next to another logical choice--a BMW.

Choose quattro, an avant if you can find it, manual tranny, and if you really look hard, one with the factory sport package.

Wait a minute, I have one that I am selling, what a coincidence!!

I'm serious, it's a 2001, one owner, has only 50K miles and is cherry.

PM me.

[Ken Robb]

cool cars with the right engine--why would you give it up?

[tuscanyswe]

My favorite top gear episode.
and it would qualify as a drivers car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

[mandasol]

To make a more compact size some Audi engines are interference designs, which means as long as all the planets and stars are aligned you're fine, but one thing goes out of whack or you wait too long between service intervals and catastrophic failure. A friend of mine had to pay to replace an engine after his engine died shortly after his warranty expired.

+1 on keeping the Land Cruiser and getting a Porsche, but get a 'real' 911 meaning air cooled, either the 964 body (avoiding the 90-91 many of them have bad seals and leaks oil, these engines hold massive amounts of oil so leaks can resemble Niagara Falls) or a 993 body - the best mix of newer design and air cooled goodness. The went water cooled in '99 (996) and that model is notorious for problems, plus the non-traditional boxster style headlights all contribute to the early 996's often selling for less than the 993.

[Ken Robb]

1975-77 911 had a problem with the cyllinder studs stretching or pulling part way through the magnesium cases. There was a fix using steel threaded inserts developed which solved the problem "permanently"---until now.

I'm told that magnesium weakens with age and so some of these "permanent" fixes are failing and it's likely that most will as time goes by. The other bad news is that even the 1978 and newer engines that never had the problem before due to beefed up cases when built are also having magnesium fatique failures.

This was explained to me by a local 911 mechanic when I told him I reckoned that the air-cooled 911 engines were darn near bulletpoof and good for over 150,000 miles before needing major work. He said "not anymore".

I was looking at a couple to buy because I like driving them, they're comfy/roomy sports cars and I wouldn't mind $100 oil changes because they are pretty much done depreciating so that expense is nil. It was like discovering the prom queen has bad breath. :(

[musgravecycles]

My favorite top gear episode.
and it would qualify as a drivers car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

That's my fav episode too. Though it fails on the 4-door daily driver with kids criteria.

[Louis]

pre-1974 ALFA Romeo Berlina, a smart mans four door vintage Ferarri

If he hadn't said 4-dr I was going to say GTV or this:

(early 70's ALFA Montreal for those not familiar with ALFA)

http://alfaromeoisback.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/alfa-8035-002b.jpg

[dancinkozmo]

If he hadn't said 4-dr I was going to say GTV or this:

(early 70's ALFA Montreal for those not familiar with ALFA)

http://alfaromeoisback.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/alfa-8035-002b.jpg

whoooah !
molto babe magnet !!

[tuscanyswe]

:beer:

Hmm yeah the little ones would suffer abit with that ride. You have to find an angle with the wife for that purchase i presume. You think, the kids have bikes and need the exercise and free facelift would swing it ? :D

Its been said so many times allrdy in this thread but a used 3series is prolly a really good alternative. If you wanted more space the station wagons look really good too. The ones b4 they changed to that weird (litespeed vortex look) design around 03 looks the best to me and i know they are great and are very nice to drive. Definetly handles very well.

[mandasol]

SAAB 9-3 Viggen

Family friendly 4 doors with rear hatchback, turbo charged, 17 inch wheels, only available in manual trans, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, you don't see them on every street corner like BMW's and...

Born from Jets

[ti_boi]

SAAB 9-3 Viggen

Family friendly 4 doors with rear hatchback, turbo charged, 17 inch wheels, only available in manual trans, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, you don't see them on every street corner like BMW's and...

Made from Jets

Torque steer....chassis could not keep up with the motor....

[ThasFACE]

Torque steer....chassis could not keep up with the motor....
Torque steer is definitely an issue, but a few minor suspension modifications (the 'rescue kit') can do an awful lot to reduce the problem.

In general I like the viggen a lot; it has character.