pissed!!!

[ridemoreoften]

I hope i get an answer on this one. sent my CIII for a new paint job - half and half white and platnum with a black pin strip delineating the colors. got the quote today - $1650!!!!!!!!!!!!! the frame new cost $1700. i talk up serotta all the time about ride quality, craftmanship, etc. but imho this is rediculous. i am calling serotta tomorrow am to express my opinion and don't give me a quote for single color etc after having the frame for 3+ months just send it back bro and keep smoking what ever you're smoking in seratoga springs. will never buy another serotta! you guys are good but get real!!!

[David Kirk]

That sounds like a mistake to me.

dave

[mike p]

Makes JB's prices seem like Earl Scheib!

Mike

[CNY rider]

Do folks usually ship their bikes for re-paint and only then get a quote after Serotta has it?
I'm just curious because I would want at least a rough estimate before I went to the hassle of tearing the bike down and packing and shipping it.

[Ozz]

As I understand it, because you are asking for 3 colors so you into it for at least $750 minimum with the set time and such. The number of colors involved seems to drive the cost exponentially. Also, I don't think there is such thing as just a "repaint" at Serotta...pretty sure they strip it down fill dents, straighten the frame, etc....seem to recall reading this somewhere....ask Serotta Pete to look into it.

Sounds pricey to me, but like I said, pretty sure it includes more than just a couple coats over the current paint job.

PS - I would have gotten a quote a details before I shipped as well.

Good luck!

[14max]

*****

[mike p]

Some places give their customers preferential treatment and repaint their own frames at a cheaper rate. John Slawta at landshark repaints only landshark frames for 375.00!!! I called him because I thought his website was wrong, he said anything and as many colors as I wanted 375.00 + shipping!

Mike

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . with a black pin strip delineating the colors

. . . with tape?

BBD

[ridemoreoften]

Do folks usually ship their bikes for re-paint and only then get a quote after Serotta has it?
I'm just curious because I would want at least a rough estimate before I went to the hassle of tearing the bike down and packing and shipping it.
lbs siad around 4-600 bucks

[ridemoreoften]

Do folks usually ship their bikes for re-paint and only then get a quote after Serotta has it?
I'm just curious because I would want at least a rough estimate before I went to the hassle of tearing the bike down and packing and shipping it.
doesn't matter ridiculous price i had an estimate of 4-5 hundred bucks from lbs. i still think it's crazy. i can paint a car for less.

[ridemoreoften]

the price is just for stripping and painting. i don't get it. for paint to cost more than the original frame is nuts!@!! shame on serotta.

[ridemoreoften]

As I understand it, because you are asking for 3 colors so you into it for at least $750 minimum with the set time and such. The number of colors involved seems to drive the cost exponentially. Also, I don't think there is such thing as just a "repaint" at Serotta...pretty sure they strip it down fill dents, straighten the frame, etc....seem to recall reading this somewhere....ask Serotta Pete to look into it.

Sounds pricey to me, but like I said, pretty sure it includes more than just a couple coats over the current paint job.

PS - I would have gotten a quote a details before I shipped as well.

Good luck!
got an estimate from the lbs around 4-500 bucks. what ever still rediclous. i am pissed and will have the frame shippe back. as much for the paint and the original price of the frame. give me a break what's the steel worth which is great.

[BumbleBeeDave]

got the quote today - $1650!!!!!!!!!!!!! the frame new cost $1700. . . . after having the frame for 3+ months just send it back . . .

When did you buy your CIII? Prices for everything do go up. That unfortunately includes labor. If Serotta offers these services, they have to do so at their Saratoga facility. There's no shipping it to Taiwan. Also, unlike Joe Bell, who I understand does nothing but paint bikes, Serotta is building bikes, and anything they do extra requires changes to the production system. Additionally, I distinctly remember in every tour I've ever taken up there being told specifically that every bike that comes back to the factory for whatever reason is checked for alignment and thoroughly inspected. That takes time and labor, too.

Also, it took them 3+ months to get you a quote? That just doesn't sound like the Serotta company I know.

BBD

[bleusky]

. . . with tape?

BBD

Tape is used on a Ti frame to finish off the paint when the rest or parts of the frame show just Ti. The tape keeps the paint from chipping...

[caleb]

One of the unfortunate aspects of owning classic bikes is that repaints often aren't worth it.

I had a Pegoretti that needed a repaint. Nice bike, but it would have cost at least $600 to get a basic respray (1 color, white decals). I sold it on eBay instead.

I'm going to go out on a limb and agree with you that paying $1600 is crazy (that's not to say that charging that much is crazy). To me, that is a fairly staighforward statement that they don't want to be in the repainting business. I imagine that there's more money in selling new frames than in refurbishing old ones.

The world is full of underemployed artists. I hope some of them go into industrial and commercial painting. I have a feeling there's money to be made.

I'm currently looking at a new bike, and planning to get it ordered in the next two weeks. I want to keep it for a long time. I'd like a steel bike, but I'm drawn to ti simply so I don't have to mess with paint.

[Jeff N.]

Have the thing sent to JB and don't look back. Jeff N.

[Satellite]

Sell it and buy Ti no more paint or corrosion rides like a dream.

[mflaherty37]

Oh, did you want it primed too?

[Peter B]

No disrespect towards our hosts but there's any number of skilled painters who would do that job for half the quoted price. Especially in the current economic climate. Have you considered Spectrum Powderworks? Where are you located?

[rphetteplace]

ouch. I'd shop elsewhere also. +1 on Spectrum. I just had a frame wet painted by them, very intricate paint scheme, 3 colors multiple masks and it was much less than this. Mark does excellent work.

[Viper]

Chemical Industrial (Congressional) Complex.

To the OP, go with the white/red logos:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=48776

:beer:

[TMB]

............ I imagine that there's more money in selling new frames than in refurbishing old ones.

............

I think at $1,650 for a re-paint I would be inclined to dis-agree with you on this one.

[Peter B]

Any number of skilled builders will sell you a new custom frameset for about that price--

Steve Rex
Mike DeSalvo
Independent Fabrication
Soulcraft
Landshark
etc.

[Dekonick]

A quote that high seems either a mistake, or Serotta really doesn't want to be in the refurb business...

Dunno - seems HIGH to me...

Ill bet it would be a nice paint job... nuthn against our hosts, but JB also does stellar work...

[Blue Jays]

Yowza! :eek:

[jl123]

This act (the charge and the long wait) actually has a name- disrespect.
Serotta will become more acclimated to this meaning as the economic situation becomes more clear to them. Sad that it often takes money to make people realize common decency. jl

[avalonracing]

or Serotta really doesn't want to be in the refurb business...


That is always a possibility. I know from industries that I have been in when someone really doesn't want to do a project they price it to "make it worth their while" so if that have do it at least they are well paid.

BTW- 10 years ago I had a Colorado II painted by Fresh Frames. Three weeks for a full refinish which was then covered in an orange paint with a slight pearl metallic undercoat and a lot of clear coat on top (it also had the the correct Serotta decals). It cost $330 and held up better than the original paint. The only thing that I would have done differently is I would have them not apply the ugly Fresh Frame decal... I would have paid extra for that had I known it was going on under the clear.

[erector]

I'm just curious if anyone from serotta is going to respond to the thread here. I'm sure they've got some explanation, I'd be interested to hear it.

[caleb]

I'm just curious if anyone from serotta is going to respond to the thread here. I'm sure they've got some explanation, I'd be interested to hear it.

I'm waiting to see if they zap the whole thread...

[Marcusaurelius]

A couple of years ago I contacted Serotta about a paint job and fixing a dent in my CSI, I was told it would be about $350 for a new paint job and aprroximately $200 to fix the dent. Of course the frame would have to be checked for any other abnormalities. I thought their quote was very reasonable.

I'm not sure what to make of this recent quote--is there something I don't know? Is there some gold letters on the top tube perhaps? (small joke)

[Monthly Payment]

I'm waiting to see if they zap the whole thread...

I hope someone responds and makes it a sticky.

I've been thinking about sending one back as well, but this just makes me hesitant, especially since I bought my frame/ fork for $850 way back in the day. I can live with a few nicks.

[Sandy]

I used to operate a wholesale meat business. One item I sold was pork loins. The owner of a successful high quality and high priced retail butcher shop was thinking about putting pork chops on sale one week. He started thinking that would necessitate lowering his regular weekly pork chop price. Realizing that he would still sell the same number of his pork chops during the week whether they were on sale or not, he decided not to put pork chops on sale, but to raise the price of his pork chops, sell the same amount, and make more money.

Perhaps Serotta in its structure of selling, has only a certain amount of time/ qualified man power/space to allocate to painting/refinishing/repairing. As it is able to fill all of the slots to paint frames, frame sets, and forks, why lower its price for repaints, no matter what others will charge? Charge more and make more.


:banana: Sizzling Smoldering Sirloin Steak Serotta Sandy :banana:

[Sandy]

This act (the charge and the long wait) actually has a name- disrespect.
Serotta will become more acclimated to this meaning as the economic situation becomes more clear to them. Sad that it often takes money to make people realize common decency. jl

Don't think it has a thing to do with common decency. It is a business decision. Maybe a good one. Maybe a poor one. Perhaps it is because of the economic situation that Serotta charges what it charges.


Sandy

[ti_boi]

Solution......don't do it....I dunno why people need shiny new bikes to ride.

A good beaten up model has tons of mojo! :hello:

[coopdog]

My brother used to train horses. He got to where he was hating it. So instead of charging $100 for a 30 minute ride, he started charging $200. A funny thing happened. Demand went UP. So he started charging $300 and demand went up again! Apparently, people associated the price they paid with quality of training. The more money they spent the better the training must be, right?

Moral of the story: I don't think Serotta wants to repaint frames.

[Smiley]

My brother used to train horses. He got to where he was hating it. So instead of charging $100 for a 30 minute ride, he started charging $200. A funny thing happened. Demand went UP. So he started charging $300 and demand went up again! Apparently, people associated the price they paid with quality of training. The more money they spent the better the training must be, right?

Moral of the story: I don't think Serotta wants to repaint frames.


AGREED, its something they do but not something they are set up properly to do. Their paint shop supports their new frame business.

[rwsaunders]

got an estimate from the lbs around 4-500 bucks. what ever still rediclous. i am pissed and will have the frame shippe back. as much for the paint and the original price of the frame. give me a break what's the steel worth which is great.

You aren't going to beat your original estimate with a quality outfit like Joe Bell either....there is also a significant wait as I understand. Maybe a powdercoat would make you happy?

http://www.campyonly.com/joebell/price_list.html

[dekindy]

There used to be a price list on Waterford's website but I could not find it today. For $475 in-season or $375 off-season you could get your Schwinn Paramount restored and for an extra $25 spread the rear dropouts and remove and replace the brake bridge. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me if you really love your Paramount and want it restored.

[Jeff Weir]

I just picked up my colorado II from powdercoating yesterday.
One color, no decals, frame and fork: $150.00
That works for me.

[Lifelover]

I hope i get an answer on this one. sent my CIII for a new paint job - half and half white and platnum with a black pin strip delineating the colors. got the quote today - $1650!!!!!!!!!!!!! the frame new cost $1700. i talk up serotta all the time about ride quality, craftmanship, etc. but imho this is rediculous. i am calling serotta tomorrow am to express my opinion and don't give me a quote for single color etc after having the frame for 3+ months just send it back bro and keep smoking what ever you're smoking in seratoga springs. will never buy another serotta! you guys are good but get real!!!


I agree that the price seems crazy high. However, you need to focus your anger at you LBS. They should have never quoted you a price by pulling it out of their A$$. If you have been without your frame for 3 months, I suspect your LBS is the problem there as well.

Tell us who they were so we can avoid them.

[fiamme red]

There used to be a price list on Waterford's website but I could not find it today. For $475 in-season or $375 off-season you could get your Schwinn Paramount restored and for an extra $25 spread the rear dropouts and remove and replace the brake bridge. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me if you really love your Paramount and want it restored.Prices have gone up: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricelist.php?newstype=randrO

[Pete Serotta]

I did some research with SEROTTA on this so let me list information. I am not passing judgement on anything and am just dealing with what WE know about the frame.

The dealer called SEROTTA on 12/15 to request a Return Authorization (that is the first point at which SEROTTA was involved. THe RA was issued the 16th AND the dealer was told that SEROTTA would be closed over the holdidays (Christmas thru the Monday after New Years)

The dealer has access to the paint pricing at all times. The three color paint starts at over 1200 retail (this is not cost to dealer) and depending on metallic and special colors it goes up from there. Additional cost involved the "hand" pin striping. THis is how the cost got up to that price.

The bike could not be shipped to Serotta without the RA, so frame was not there for three months.

For your info, a single color paint is around 600 retail and this includes the bike going thru the same pre-inspection, alignment, rust proofing, tube prep and painting as the NEW frames. The price is not cheap but comes back looking new for it is refurbished by the gang that built it originally.

I have a friend who got a "single" color (white) with pin striping for about that amount from a builder on the west coast. He waited 8 months. The bike is beautiful and yes it did not make financial sense, but he loves it and we all know WE are crazy about cycling!!!

Serotta has world class paint facilities (yes I am biased) and I would rank them right up there with the other three painters I personally consider world class. AND yes there are MANY others that will paint for far less BUT it really depends on what you want and what your budget is.

No, I did not mention the other three that I consider in the same league for I am sure there are others out there that I would slight. (these are just the 3 I would use or personally recommend.)


I truly am sorry for the experience that you have encountered. If there is anything I can do to assist you in moving forward, no matter what direction you take, please feel free to send me an email pete@serotta.com.


PETE


I hope i get an answer on this one. sent my CIII for a new paint job - half and half white and platnum with a black pin strip delineating the colors. got the quote today - $1650!!!!!!!!!!!!! the frame new cost $1700. i talk up serotta all the time about ride quality, craftmanship, etc. but imho this is rediculous. i am calling serotta tomorrow am to express my opinion and don't give me a quote for single color etc after having the frame for 3+ months just send it back bro and keep smoking what ever you're smoking in seratoga springs. will never buy another serotta! you guys are good but get real!!!

[sc53]

I got my CSI totally repainted with a 3-color scheme (I think it's the "race" design) and some handpainting around the lugs and on the top tube for about $1150 a couple years ago. It was expensive but completely worth it to me. The before and after are in my sig below. Sounds like I would be paying quite a bit more to have this done today, glad I did it before prices went UP^^^.

[Pete Serotta]

For what you have it would be about 300 more that you paid for there is no "hand striping" around the lugs. You have the same "theme" I have but mine is blue/arancia/white. PETE..

I got my CSI totally repainted with a 3-color scheme (I think it's the "race" design) and some handpainting around the lugs and on the top tube for about $1150 a couple years ago. It was expensive but completely worth it to me. The before and after are in my sig below. Sounds like I would be paying quite a bit more to have this done today, glad I did it before prices went UP^^^.

[BumbleBeeDave]

For your info, a single color paint is around 600 retail and this includes the bike going thru the same pre-inspection, alignment, rust proofing, tube prep and painting as the NEW frames. The price is not cheap but comes back looking new for it is refurbished by the gang that built it originally.

This is what I was talking about earlier. Yes, it's expensive, but they are certainly not just spraying a coat of paint on it and shoving it back out the door. You get a frame that is restored to "new" condition outside AND inside.

BBD

[fierte_poser]

Pete,

You're a good guy. Thanks for helping out. :hello:

You are a good ambassador for Ben.

One dancing banana for you:

:banana:

Kent

ps where have all the dancing bananas gone?

[ThirtyEast]

Pin striping is really difficult to do properly and hence really expensive. That's been my experience, at least.

:beer:

[Doug Fattic]

I'm betting their high price of painting a frame is based on a sound business plan rather than what starving artists charge. Bean counters are going to use a formula of material costs + total labor time (with fair compensation for employees) + overhead + reasonable profit, etc.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. A very good paint job takes much longer to do than a poor one. Spray booth time is only a small percentage of total time. And doing 2nd and 3rd colors takes much more time than a single color. In addition, wet paint costs (as in buying the paint at a paint store) are pretty frightful. I came back with just basic stuff the other day in a not very big box and wrote a check for over $1000. That did not include a House of Kolor Kameleon that might run $275 a pint.

When I go get supplies I occasionally run into custom motorcycle painters. I ask them what a typical price is for doing a tank and $6000 is common. The price difference between motor and pedal bikes is based on culture not time or difficulty. That price you were quoted is just a reality check on the actual value of American produced work. If you went to a plumber or electrician and asked for a job that required equal time, equipment, and material costs, it would not be less. Custom bicycle work has always been undervalued and everybody (including the builders/painters) have gotten used to it.

By the way, not many can do top end paint work. My list is longer than Serotta Pete's but it would be less than 10.

Doug

[david]

in toronto.
supposed to be good and prices that won't piss you off.

[dekindy]

Prices have gone up: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricelist.php?newstype=randrO

Thanks. I looked everywhere for this on Waterford's website. Where did you find it? I have looked it up many times before so I don't understand my difficulty locating it. The prices still seem reasonable imho (Don't tell Waterford!).

[CarlosContreros]

Please forgive me for being maybe a bit negative...but?...
isn't the LBS going to pocket like 15-20% on this deal 'cause
you had to use them for the RA.....and did they actually do
the ship as well?

[fiamme red]

Thanks. I looked everywhere for this on Waterford's website. Where did you find it? I have looked it up many times before so I don't understand my difficulty locating it. The prices still seem reasonable imho (Don't tell Waterford!).The link is hidden away at the bottom of the "Styling" page: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.php?newstype=styling.

I had my 1974 Paramount track bike sent to Waterford last winter for a repaint and decals. It cost $375 for the single-color paint job, and $400 to replace the toptube and downtube, which had been slightly damaged at some point. The bike rides better than it did before (no-hands riding is now extremely easy, before it required concentration), and it looks great.

[avalonracing]

Pete,

You're a good guy. Thanks for helping out. :hello:

You are a good ambassador for Ben.

One dancing banana for you:

:banana:

Kent

ps where have all the dancing bananas gone?

Three thoughts:
-I agree, that was cool of you to check on this, Pete.
-That 96 CSI does look great (except for the bar tape!)
-I saw the words dancing banana and misread it as dancing Obama... Can we add that to the smilies?

[Pete Serotta]

get some bar tape from Aneidaride (aka RAY) :banana: :banana:

Three thoughts:
-I agree, that was cool of you to check on this, Pete.
-That 96 CSI does look great (except for the bar tape!)
-I saw the words dancing banana and misread it as dancing Obama... Can we add that to the smilies?

[scrooge]

Doug--nice to see you posting here. I admire your work.

I'm betting their high price of painting a frame is based on a sound business plan rather than what starving artists charge. Bean counters are going to use a formula of material costs + total labor time (with fair compensation for employees) + overhead + reasonable profit, etc.

There are a couple of things to keep in mind. A very good paint job takes much longer to do than a poor one. Spray booth time is only a small percentage of total time. And doing 2nd and 3rd colors takes much more time than a single color. In addition, wet paint costs (as in buying the paint at a paint store) are pretty frightful. I came back with just basic stuff the other day in a not very big box and wrote a check for over $1000. That did not include a House of Kolor Kameleon that might run $275 a pint.

When I go get supplies I occasionally run into custom motorcycle painters. I ask them what a typical price is for doing a tank and $6000 is common. The price difference between motor and pedal bikes is based on culture not time or difficulty. That price you were quoted is just a reality check on the actual value of American produced work. If you went to a plumber or electrician and asked for a job that required equal time, equipment, and material costs, it would not be less. Custom bicycle work has always been undervalued and everybody (including the builders/painters) have gotten used to it.

By the way, not many can do top end paint work. My list is longer than Serotta Pete's but it would be less than 10.

Doug

[kenw]

try waterford's web site for a paint price point.

[mikki]

Have the thing sent to JB and don't look back. Jeff N.
And you will love your bike afterwards!!

[deechee]

I sympathize with the original poster since his quote was far off what he expected. I think part of the problem here may have been communication - did he get an auto-reply/message from email/phone saying the office was closed? Did he get prompt updates? I'm just saying this because when I had to send back my frame after an accident, information was sporadic. In the end, miscommunication caused the frame to be stuck at customs for a few more weeks than necessary.

That said, even though my top tube and chainstays were dented badly and the frame was completely twisted, the frame looked brand new when I got it. The repair work at Serotta is second to none, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, even if I have to pay close to 1-2K$ for it.

Now if only I could go outside and ride. The high today is -11F (-21C). Arrrrgh.