OT CAMERA GEEKS: digital SLR questions

[d_douglas]

I am going to South Africa and Namibia in a month and would like to buy a proper camera for the trip, as we are doing a safari or two while there.

I am pretty clueless about cameras, so please make this painless:

I am looking at a cost effective 10mega pixel or so camera taht advances rapidly and has decent lenses.

My buddy has a Nikon D60 that he likes. They are cheapish because they are being phased out. This is fine for me, except that they use a unique lense attachment, so I have few lense choices.

Nikon D80-D90s are plentiful, but more money. They take standard lenses.

A camera shop employee suggested a Canon D450 that she said was equal in quality. It came with a standard lense plus a 28-250mm telephoto as a package for about 1100 US (I am living in Switzerland, so these are US approximations)

SO, my question is: What do people in the know think of these two cameras and would a telephoto of this size suffice for snapping charging elephants and lions?

I don't want to spend more than this, but they come as a package. Should I simply buy the body alone with teh basic lense and then spend $400 or whatever on a telephoto lense that is more suitable?

HELP ME!

PS she showed me a price list for lenses, so I know how crazy expensive they get!

[dave thompson]

To the best of my knowledge, the D-60 is compatible with all Nikon lenses. It doesn't use a unique lens mount, it's standard Nikon specs.

[giordana93]

I'm sure you'll get a bunch of answers, and I'm no expert, but the first ? for me would be how rugged is the camera. you seem set on a d-slr, but are you really going to be changing lenses out based on the shot? even modest point and shoot cameras can take pretty good pic's and some have pretty good glass. how much control over your shots will you want? the dslr have more options (in general), but if you will never need that control why buy it? a few cameras are more dust and water resistant. just a few thoughts

[d_douglas]

Thanks Dave. My French is rusty. She said there was limited options for lenses with the D60.

[ergott]

If this is a rare trip for you consider renting better equipment. You will get better results on safari type trips with cameras that have solid auto focus and you want good telephoto lenses.

I don't know Nikkon but here is one recommendation. There are Nikkon equivalents.

Canon 40D with both
24-105 IS lens and
100-400 lens
EX-580 flash
Optionally, add a wider lens like 17-40 if you want to shoot landscapes.

This would be an excellent kit for a special trip. The camera has automatic modes so all you do is point and shoot (green square or Program modes). The tele. lenses both have image stabilization in them for more flexibility. Since you are new at this you are better off with zoom lenses.

You might want to purchase your own memory cards so you can keep them. Shoot in RAW mode which is the highest quality. Even if you don't know what to do with them, you will later and you can save many a shot in Photoshop (or similar) that you would otherwise delete. Think of RAW as having negatives whereas .jpg files are just prints.

If you have the option of bringing a computer with you, you can save the images onto the computer so you can reuse 1 or 2 memory cards. RAW files take up a lot of room.

If you really want to be safe, once you download the images, upload them to an offsite backup on line. Then even if you ruin a computer or memory card, you still have what you uploaded. There are sites that are real cheap to do this.

This is what I would do if I were you. A special trip where you have the chance to take once in a lifetime images would make me want to get everything right.

[Ozz]

Here, I just went thru this exercise:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=52978&highlight=Ozz

I ended up with a Nikon D300. I spent about $500 more than I wanted / expected to, but I think I got a great camera.

Felt best in my hands
More flexible photo options
Intuitive controls
Rugged construction (all metal body)
more durable shutter

I got the 17-200 lens which is great for outdoor / sports stuff, but I already know I need a faster lens for indoor photos.

[cinelli]

Dave Thompson is right. The D60 takes standard Nikon AF lenses. The only difference that I know of is that some later bodies have additional feautures that require more recent lenses. They all should "fit" as they have the same mounting.

[DfCas]

The Nikon D60 is actually a recent camera. It does not have a lens motor in the body, so you must use an AF-s or maybe an AF I lens if you want autofocus. If you have no lenses, you would simply buy this type.

If you prefer manual focus, you can use almost any Nikon lens.

One thing that may or may not matter to you is the D60 does not have live view on the LCD screen. I think:)

[Pete Serotta]

Ozz, I fell into the same camera.......I really like it and yes it was more $$s than I had originally budgeted...

AS to inexpensive "do most things" camera,,,a D40, 60, 70. 80, 90 are very good. Some are out of production BUT can be had used. If new, I would look at the D40. COSTCO or B&H are reputable sources..

Here, I just went thru this exercise:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=52978&highlight=Ozz

I ended up with a Nikon D300. I spent about $500 more than I wanted / expected to, but I think I got a great camera.

Felt best in my hands
More flexible photo options
Intuitive controls
Rugged construction (all metal body)
more durable shutter

I got the 17-200 lens which is great for outdoor / sports stuff, but I already know I need a faster lens for indoor photos.

[d_douglas]

Thanks for turning me onto the previous thread - I never thought to see if this has come up before.

Great info and DFCas - I think you know what I m talking about. OK, I have spoken with my photographer buddy in Canada and she said she just bought the Nikon D80 and urged me to as well. Funny how people never suggest buying a __________ that is different from the one that they bought (!)

Thanks again,

Darren

[Hardlyrob]

Go here (http://www.kenrockwell.com) he has tons of information on Nikon equipment, and solid recommendations about what you need and don't need to be a good photographer.

Read "What camera should I buy", "why your camera doesn't matter" and "How to carry less" ATMO, he's right about all three.

Happy hunting!

Rob

[maunahaole]

The nikon lens mount is standard. As has been mentioned, the difference is that some Nikons have an AF motor in the body. These can use any of the nikon AF lenses. Some (D40 is an example) do not have the motor in the body and are limited to using only the newer lenses that have the motors in the lens itself.

You won't go wrong with either canon or nikon. Both are great systems. In addition to additional memory card(s) get some spare batteries as well. Dead battery means no pictures.

Although it will be a tough bullet to bite, buy the fast telephoto lenses. When I went to Africa many years ago, the elephants came in at dusk. You will appreciate a few extra stops of exposure when the shot counts. Ask ergott about his fast tele, he can tell you more than I can.

[ace2937]

Hey folks, just wanted to throw my two cents. I just got off the phone with B&H finalizing an order for a new lense for my Canon Eos 40d. I would definitely encourage going to aforementioned website to get some valuable advice. My camera was a gift and I am deeply grateful, however, that said, if I had the budget, I would drop the cash for the Nikon D300. All the reviews I have read give it stellar marks. When I get more comfortable with the whole digital photo scene I might trade up, for now, the Canon I received is easy, feels great in my hands,has excellent image quality and has a wide choice of lenses to choose from. Hope this is helpful.

[rnhood]

I recommend the Nikon D90. Its an outstanding camera, easy to use, not too expensive, and the pictures are superb. The D40 is another option for less money. Given the fact that you can buy one with lens for less than $500, its somewhat of a bonifide bargain.

As has already been mentioned, the faster the telephoto lens the better. They are heavier and bulkier (and more expensive) but, its a tradeoff worth accepting.

[jpw]

CMOS sensor
Manual lens
KISS

[bagochips3]

My 2 cents:

Any Nikon or Canon DSLR will do the job nicely (or other brand). The three things that make the most difference in the quality of the shots:

1. the photographer
2. the light
3. (distant third) the lens

You need a lot of experience to be a good photographer.
You need a lot of experience to understand and use light.
You can buy nice lenses (but they are very very expensive (listen to Mr Ergott and rent the good stuff)).

A basic kit lens will do fine for most landscapes and people shots. Using a tripod will help your shots a lot more than most people realize. Rent a big telephoto for animal shots (100mm-400mm at a minimum, I would think) and have fun.

For a cool $100k, you could get this ;) :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/newsLetter/Mother-of-All-L-Lenses.jsp

Most important: get a camera you feel comfortable with and have fun.

[jbrainin]

When I get more comfortable with the whole digital photo scene I might trade up, for now, the Canon I received is easy, feels great in my hands,has excellent image quality and has a wide choice of lenses to choose from. Hope this is helpful.

Don't plan on trading up: once you've acquired a collection of Canon lenses, it becomes much more expensive to switch to Nikon (or whatever) and buy a whole new batch of glass. Aldo, the menu structure of Canon cameras is very different from that of Nikon. The more adept you become with the Canon, the harder it becomes to switch.

[Kevan]

then do some more. Keep in mind that these days the software is an important component to the camera. Can't have one w/o the udder. There's a learning curve involved, but assuming your photo files are safely stashed, you can refer back to them for years to come to tweak as you become a better tweaker.

Shooting RAW files is key to get the most out of your alterations. The JPEG files your camera produce are influenced by the camera's onboard programming that can never be removed. RAW gives you total command.

Remember the practice part. You go on this trip w/o understanding the camera's in's and out's is a total waste of the hardware.

[SoCalSteve]

Remember, its more about the lens than the camera body itself. If you can, spend more of your budget on better lenses than on high mega-pixel or features that you will probably never use (such as live view).

Good luck!

Steve

[ChamUK]

The OP said he was pretty clueless about cameras. I would say it might be prudent to get a high quality point and shoot. You have about a month to get familiar with a new camera-you'll want something really easy to use. DSLRs, even the simple ones have somewhat of a learning curve. You don't want to be messing around with controls and such, and miss a great shot.

[ergott]

The OP said he was pretty clueless about cameras. I would say it might be prudent to get a high quality point and shoot. You have about a month to get familiar with a new camera-you'll want something really easy to use. DSLRs, even the simple ones have somewhat of a learning curve. You don't want to be messing around with controls and such, and miss a great shot.


All of the dslr cameras mentioned have fully automatic modes. They are no more difficult to use in those modes than a regular P&S and benefit from blazing fast auto-focus in comparison, better noise handling if higher ISO is needed and plain and simple, better image quality in every way.

The only real benefit to a P&S is the small size.

[bagochips3]

The OP said he was pretty clueless about cameras. I would say it might be prudent to get a high quality point and shoot. You have about a month to get familiar with a new camera-you'll want something really easy to use. DSLRs, even the simple ones have somewhat of a learning curve. You don't want to be messing around with controls and such, and miss a great shot.

I would agree, except he wants to be able to shoot elephants and lions. Even in a zoo, you need a decent sized zoom lens to shoot animals (not to mention fast auto focus and fast shutter response times) and a p&s won't cut it. So that means DSLR.

[C5 Snowboarder]

I have been on safari to Botswana, neighbor of Namibia. I shot most of my shots with no more than 70mm zoom because most of the guides got within 15 feet of all the animals including all the carnivorous beautiful beasts. Couple of things that I might mention a video camera is a needed toy for your safari – specially the sound portion. One of my regrets in my many camp sites was to not turn the video camera on at night in pitch black and just record the nocturnal sounds. It is truly awesome – the noises that you hear at night. I have on video and on 35mm, 3 lions taking apart a live Impala they just brought down. We were so close we could smell the guts as they ripped it open. The growling that is on tape as they fought over the prime cuts and filet mignon – like I say we were 15 feet away. Cheetah and leopards – we could have reached out and touched them from the Toyota vehicle. Wild dog was the only carnivorous annual we missed seeing. Anyway have a great time..

[MerckxMad]

Are you planning on a photo safari, or becoming a dedicated tyro? If not, my advice is to get the lightest dslr with the most idiot buttons available. Even the simplest models are sophisticated and complex machines that typically require hours of manual reading to operate with basic proficiency. If you would like to bring back some nice snapshots of your vacation on a camera that you can learn quickly and grow with, stick with the entry level Nikon or Canon models since you'll be buying into a lens system.

I'm a Nikon guy myself with several nice dslr bodies and a collection of glass. I recently purchased the D40x for cheap from a local ebay reseller and it's now the one camera I use almost exclusively. It's light, compact, and simple. Get it with the kit 55-200 VR zoom (you need to stick with AF-S/AF-I lenses for auto focus) and you're ready to go and make great travel photos. Trust me, you don't want to lug around a six pound camera, telephoto lens and tripod to take vacation pics.

[Birch]

First off, ENJOY! I went to Namibia in May and loved it.

I'll start by saying I didn't read any of the responses yet...

With that in mind, you really need just three things (or 4) to get you through this...

1) Nikon D200. Superb DSLR and can be had used for cheap
2) Nikkor 18-200 lens. This will capture a lot of what you need to get
3) Nikkor 80-400 or Sigma 150-500. This will be your long lens. I got some magical long distance shots such as:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/3179493443_3cf526525e_b.jpg

If you're going to do night pics, you'll need a tripod as well.

PM me if you want more info!!

So jealous... loved Namibia. Best place I've ever been... food... people... scenery....

[CaliFly]

For a safari, I'd invest in renting long glass. You can purchase a less expensive DSLR and a shorter zoom (24-70).

[Birch]

Cali...

I looked into that.

What I ended up doing was buying the long glass used, then reselling it when I got back.

Made $75 on it :-D

[CaliFly]

Cali...

I looked into that.

What I ended up doing was buying the long glass used, then reselling it when I got back.

Made $75 on it :-D

That's awesome! :beer:

[Skrawny]

My brother who knows nothing about photography and is not "mechanically inclined" borrowed my Nikon D70s and Nikkor 18-200VR lens for his honeymoon safari in South Africa. Below are the pictures he took. Mostly they were full auto, but they are still far better than a point & shoot.

(none are photoshopped other than to crop and reduce to upload to this website. The noise you see is because I made them low res. His wife made them 20 inches and they are gorgeous!)

B&H is selling the Nikon D60 SLR Digital Camera Kit with 18-55mm VR Lens & 55-200mm VR Lens for $850 right now. -the D60 is a better camera than the D70s (despite being "ten less")

[rounder]

then do some more. Keep in mind that these days the software is an important component to the camera. Can't have one w/o the udder. There's a learning curve involved, but assuming your photo files are safely stashed, you can refer back to them for years to come to tweak as you become a better tweaker.

Shooting RAW files is key to get the most out of your alterations. The JPEG files your camera produce are influenced by the camera's onboard programming that can never be removed. RAW gives you total command.

Remember the practice part. You go on this trip w/o understanding the camera's in's and out's is a total waste of the hardware.

I highly recommend that you learn how to work your camera if you don't already. I took a new basic digital camera on vacation last summer without first learning how to use it. The vacation was nice and i took some pictures of people and places i like. When i got back, there were zero pictures (not even any not good ones) because i didn't know that the shutter was a two click process. Anyway, hope that yours all turn out fine.

[Skrawny]

Hey d douglas,
This is a 1 year bump, but I happened across this thread and I need some closure!

What camera did you get?
How was the trip?
Photos?

-s

[Pete Serotta]

For SLR work, I really like the NIKON D40 ,all the way up to D300 have been very good in hiding my personal lack of photographic skills.


As RAY said in another post the point and shoot LUMIX Z3 is very nice and sold at COSTCO for $299. (has a long zoom), My wife has a 780IS CANON which now goes for around $190 which MAC Magazine rated very high and also many of my friends use this model, for it is small and fits in pocket.


HAPPY NEW YEAR by the way!!!! PETE

[SEABREEZE]

.

Remember the practice part. You go on this trip w/o understanding the camera's in's and out's is a total waste of the hardware.

The best bit of advice I read thus far,

See if the camera shop you are buying from holds free classes on the function of both the nikon and cannon. Mine did
That will help in making your decision

Additionally the shop I bought from also held free Saturday morning classes
on photography, which will having you be a better photographer in no time.

Last but not least, I bought a dvd on my specific camera, makes life real easy, no need to read the little book that comes with the camera.
Forgot how a particular funton operates, pop in the dvd, much much easier to look at the operation then to read about it.. GREAT LEARNING TOOL.

As I was about to hit the submit reply button, a thought came to me, betcha if you go to u tube, you will learn alot on both the nikon and cannon.

Happy hunting

[SEABREEZE]

[QUOTE=C5 The growling that is on tape as they fought over the prime cuts and filet mignon .[/QUOTE]

Prime cuts being organ meat, instintively thats what they will go after first.

[endosch2]

I have a D60 which I use weekly with four lenses - a 50MM nikon old school lens, a 18-55 lens for general purpose, a 55-200 mm lens for outdoor zoom stuff, and a 100 mm macro lens with a ringflash for photographing surgery - I love the camera and cant really see needing more.