Tubeless riders

[clweed]

I'm trying to decide between Campy's new 2-way fit wheels (tubeless or clincher). The 2-way wheels cost more than the clincher version of the same wheels.

For those of you riding Hutchinson tubeless, is the ride noticeably improved over clinchers?

Thanks,

Lee

[martinrjensen]

Yes, the ride is noticable nicer, pretty close to a nice tubular in ride quality. Just seems more delicate. I run them at 100 lbs but I might try them at 90 lbs next time. It's a little tough to do that right now because the weather is so nasty and all I'm riding is my rain bike which is running Conti Gatorskins, but I did ride the Hutchinson's through November, which covers close to 3 months riding I'm riding them on American Classic 350 wheels with the adhesive rim tape to seal the spoke holes, no problems. I'm trying to decide between Campy's new 2-way fit wheels (tubeless or clincher). The 2-way wheels cost more than the clincher version of the same wheels.

For those of you riding Hutchinson tubeless, is the ride noticeably improved over clinchers?

Thanks,

Lee

[clweed]

Martin,

I'm using Conti Gatorskins on my bikes now at 110 psi, and have had very good luck with flats, the only flat that I had was a pinched tube.

Lee

[romdobe]

Hutchinson tubeless and Dura-Ace wheels on my new Kirk for 1300 miles and the same setup on my Serotta for 1500 miles last summer.

I like this setup better than anything I have used in the past sixty years or so.

[fierte_poser]

I'm trying to decide between Campy's new 2-way fit wheels (tubeless or clincher). The 2-way wheels cost more than the clincher version of the same wheels.

For those of you riding Hutchinson tubeless, is the ride noticeably improved over clinchers?

Thanks,

Lee

I would get the 2-way version just to give yourself more options in the future. If Michelin or Conti makes a tubeless tire, the technology might take off. Having said that, you can probably run the tubeless tires on the clincher only version of the wheelset...you just won't get the Hutchinson tubeless 'stamp of approval'.

Further, the 2-way wheels cost more because they are the 2009 edition of the wheelset, whereas the clincher only versions are the 2008 edition of the wheelset. The only difference between 2008 and 2009 is a change to the rim profile to make them tubeless 'approved'.

Once the 2008 wheelsets sellout, there will only be the 2-way versions of the Eurus and the Shamal available.

This is according to my understanding of the direction of Campy wheelsets.

Kent

[clweed]

Thanks everyone, I just ordered the Shamal ultra 2-way wheelset from Ribble. Their 15% off sale ends tomorrow.

Lee

[johnnymossville]

I have the Shimano 7850-SL Scandium/Hutchinson Tubeless combo on my bike and they are the best riding clinchers I've ever ridden, and,...drum roll,.... NO FLATS YET!

I was getting flats all the time on my last wheel/tire combo. I probably jinxed myself, but they are that good.

[fierte_poser]

Further, the 2-way wheels cost more because they are the 2009 edition of the wheelset, whereas the clincher only versions are the 2008 edition of the wheelset. The only difference between 2008 and 2009 is a change to the rim profile to make them tubeless 'approved'.

Once the 2008 wheelsets sellout, there will only be the 2-way versions of the Eurus and the Shamal available.

This is according to my understanding of the direction of Campy wheelsets.

Kent

I think I was wrong about the above. The Campy 2009 wheel catalog shows 'regular' Eurus and 'regular' Shamal wheelsets alongside the 2-way fit Eurus and 2-way fit Shamal wheelsets.

Mea culpa

[fierte_poser]

Thanks everyone, I just ordered the Shamal ultra 2-way wheelset from Ribble. Their 15% off sale ends tomorrow.

Lee

Lee,

What tires do you plan to mount?

Kent

[Charles M]

Not to go the other way,

But I've not liked the ride quality better on tubeless...


Same PSI the ride is roughly similar to less good than Vittoria corsa KS or Vredestein tri, Veloflex, Schwalb...



The ride is certainly not tubular level at same PSI (Though you would need to have the relative perspective of riding same brand tubular and clincher like a Vittoria KS versus open KS.


The difs between good tubular and good clincher are not what we used to generalize (or romanticize)



I simply don't find an advantage to tubless yet.

I cant remember the last time I pinch flatted on the road. The "less punctures" isn't a feature. The higher weight at the outside of the wheel isn't a feature...

And Lower pressures is simply are not lower rolling resistance on smooth surface... At least not tested out at Continental nor Michelin's facility. Courses to silly extremes like Paris Roubaix aside, if there were performance advantages to be had at lower pressures, we and racers would have been running standard wheels at lower pressures already. That would go for both tubular and clincher...


Tubeless was a great thing for motor transport because of the nature of the heavier casing type and the less critical nature of weight meant that tubless made more sense...

I just dont thing we're there yet for current tech... IMO it's more a novelty than any advantage.

[rspecker]

I'd be interested in any feedback on this wheelset.

Cheers!

[clweed]

The wheels look great and appear to be dead silent while freewheeling, although I haven't ridden them yet.

I was debating on going tubeless or not and finally broke down and bought a pair of Fusion Tubeless. First thing is they are a real PITA to mount, even using soap.
The front tire aired up fine with my floor pump...no problems. I had to use the compressor on the rear and I couldn't get the valve stem to quit leaking. I decided to break the bead loose from the rim to have a look at the stem, now I can't get the rear to seat using the compressor.
I'm now waiting on a pair of Open Pave's to arrive to mount on them, I'll save the tubeless experiment for another time.

Lee

[dekindy]

The wheels look great and appear to be dead silent while freewheeling, although I haven't ridden them yet.

I was debating on going tubeless or not and finally broke down and bought a pair of Fusion Tubeless. First thing is they are a real PITA to mount, even using soap.
The front tire aired up fine with my floor pump...no problems. I had to use the compressor on the rear and I couldn't get the valve stem to quit leaking. I decided to break the bead loose from the rim to have a look at the stem, now I can't get the rear to seat using the compressor.
I'm now waiting on a pair of Open Pave's to arrive to mount on them, I'll save the tubeless experiment for another time.

Lee

Campy Eurus 2-Way or Shimano 7850SL?

[clweed]

Campy Euros 2-way

[LesMiner]

I have had the Shimano tubeless wheelset for year now. The wheels came with my Scott CR1 and were inflated at about 60 psi right out of the box. The front tire has never lost any air. The rear is a different story. I removed the tire to put a trainer tire on. Difficult to get off and difficult to get back on. The rear began to lose air slowly. After a week it would be flat then a few days finally a few hours. I was out on a ride and had flat due to a puncture. I borrowed a a tube and a CO2 from my fried to get home. I tried to fix the damage but no luck. I took it in to my LBS. The wench there is in to tubeless on mountain tires. None of his remedies worked either. Mountain tires operate at lower pressures. I like the tires so I bought a new one put it on and still have the air loss problem. I am going to try some sealing products typically used on mountain tubeless tires.

The Hutchinson website has a fair explaination of working with their tubless tire as well as many cautions. Any damage to area where the tire seals to the rim will create a problem like what I have. They have special tire levers you are suppose to use. I have not found them anywhere. They also have a patch kit. I believe there is also references on the Mavic website as well. As hard as these tires are to get on, the chances of damaging the sealing surface is high.

I friend I ride with purchased a Mavic RSYS wheelset. He also bought the kit to convert to tubeless. The Mavic rim has no holes or openings other than a hole for the inflate valve. One end of the Mavic tubeless valve has a large rubber grommet, however it is smaller than what came on my wheelset. The grommet acts like a plug to seal the hole. Anyway he was not able to get the pressure to 100 psi without a leak at the valve. He added a little RTV but still leaked air. He went back to tubes.

Despite the leakage issues I still like the idea of tubeless and I do like the ride on the Hutchinson tires. The ride quality is not the legendary dramatic difference as in the advertising. It is a matter of personal ride quality perception. Like Starbucks coffee, quite frankly I can not tell the differences or sense all the adjectives used in their descriptions. So what does fruity coffee taste like? Wine tasting is another, some really know the difference while others do not. I think the technology will improve and many people will go with it.

[-dustin]

I still believe that tubeless road is the best advancement in road cycling tech in a long, long time...

running tubeless road on my Connect and tubeless cross on my Willits.

[LegendRider]

I have had the Shimano tubeless wheelset for year now. The wheels came with my Scott CR1 and were inflated at about 60 psi right out of the box. The front tire has never lost any air. The rear is a different story. I removed the tire to put a trainer tire on. Difficult to get off and difficult to get back on. The rear began to lose air slowly. After a week it would be flat then a few days finally a few hours. I was out on a ride and had flat due to a puncture. I borrowed a a tube and a CO2 from my fried to get home. I tried to fix the damage but no luck. I took it in to my LBS. The wench there is in to tubeless on mountain tires. None of his remedies worked either. Mountain tires operate at lower pressures. I like the tires so I bought a new one put it on and still have the air loss problem. I am going to try some sealing products typically used on mountain tubeless tires.


Did you get a new valve from Shimano?

[johnnymossville]

I was able to put mine on with just my hands and a little soap, pumped right up with a hand pump. The only issue I had afterwords was that the rear valve-stem was slightly loose and leaking about 10psi a night. I tightened that up by hand and they've been great ever since. Long wearing, great riding and good handling. I can't ask for much more than that.

[LesMiner]

Did you get a new valve from Shimano?

My friend had the Mavic valve problem because of a leak around the valve. The Shimano valve has the larger grommet and does not leak. My problem is the seal between the tire and the rim.

[dekindy]

I have been looking at buying these wheels and monitoring prices.

Wiggle had a $678 last week that increased to $800+ a few days later and is around $776 now.

ChainReactionCycles has them for $667 now. Shipping is free. Is this a good vendor to purchase from?

I am a little torn because I have seen some comments that the Vittoria and other brand Open Case tires ride almost as good as the Shimano/Hutchinson tubeless combination. Prior to reading that I had purchased some Vittoria Open Pave CG tires mainly for winter durability and riding characteristics and have since read this particular model might be the best riding Open Case clincher there is. Since the weather has been so bad I have not had a chance to ride them enough to form an opinion. Can anybody comment?

[dekindy]

ChainReactionCycles price is down to $654 today.

Are you putting sealant into the tire on initial installation?
If so, what kind of sealant are you using? Stan's, Fast Air, other, etc.

Does the Shimano 7850SL have a removeable valve core to make sealant installation easier?

If the core is not removeable, can you put the sealant in the tire before installing the valve core and the sealant will be disbursed when you air up the tire?

[clweed]

Last night I took the tire completely off the rim, inspected it and the rim for damage. I put it back on and aired it up and everything appeared ok......until this morning when I noticed the air had leaked out. BTW the tire went on much easier the second time.

I bought a small bottle of slime(for bicycles and motorcycles) at the auto parts that I'm going to try. The core does comes out of the valve stem and the slime comes with a filler tube.

Lee

[feta99]

I have a set of the 7801sl and the valve core is not removable. I tried putting the sealant while mounting the tire but it can get very messy. How is the 7850 valve core different? Could you take a picture and post?

-Ath

[dekindy]

http://testrider.com/fly.aspx?layout=player&video=4

Here is testrider.com's review of Campagnolo's Shamal Ultra 2-way fit wheels. They definitely like road tubeless.

I e-mailed Ben Edwards asking about sealant. He found Hutchinson Fast Air to be ineffective. He uses Stan's on his MTB wheels and recommends it for road use.