smallest car that will hold a bike

[Ken Robb]

Since I'm retired and no longer have to drive a 4 seat sedan I've been thinking about getting a new smaller car. It would be nice to get our second car in the garage along with the Ducati and 10 bikes.
A Mini is just a bit over 8" long and there's a chance that I could have all the 2 wheel venicles across the back of the garage with a Mini behind them. Dave Kirk said he can't get a bike in his Mini. His bikes are slightly bigger than mine but I assume he took one or both wheels off to see if he could get a bike in there. I think a Clubman would take a bike. Would a VW GTI swallow one too?
I drove a Honda Fit but it was too econo/slow for me to enjoy driving one of those. I have fold-down seats in the M3 sedan and it takes any of my bikes with the front wheel removed but it's too long to squeeze in behind the bikes/m'cycle.

[David Kirk]

I think most "normal" sized bike would fit pretty well into a Clubman.

Dave

[markie]

I have no problem getting my 58cm bikes in the Mini with the rear wheels on. I have a 60cm Riv with fenders and it does not fit well...

I have a medium 29er and to get it to fit with just taking the front wheel off I have to put the front passenger seat in the full forward position. I much prefer doing this to using a rack.

I like my MINI.

[cmg]

94 honda civic, with the front wheel off and the rear seats down, no problem. easier than dealing with a bike rack.

[jimcav]

think both wheels were off--not sure if that was necessary or what else he had in there--i was over a block away

if you are not into hybrid stuff, then i'd vote for selling both cars, get a 911 with the roof transport system (or you can get one in the rear with wheels off--and of course very easy if convertible). you only live once:)

jim

[saab2000]

This VW GTI will hold my 58 CM CIII with the front wheel taken off. The pic with the seat removed was done because I had a whole bunch of other stuff and had to have the bike upright.

Seat down the GTI will hold a lot of stuff. VW Rabbit is the same car on the inside as far as space goes.

[pjm]

GTI or Mazdaspeed 3 will do the trick. Both are great fun to drive.

[bhungerford]

i've had a mini cooper s since 2003, i've fit two bikes inside (both wheels off, and if i remember a seatpost out of one also, but also had a set of golf clubs and a garment bag full of clothes in there too).

you can easily fit a normal (less than 58) size bike in the mini, i'd recommend pulling the front wheel off. although you have to move the passenger seat all the way forward to do it.

mini is a great car, pretty tough to beat, although a GTI would be second choice...or if you want something more 'green' get a prius or the new honda insight coming out fairly soon.

[PoppaWheelie]

I have a buddy (fellow forumite) that gets his 62cm Legend into a Smart Car.

Seriously.

[Jeff N.]

I've been thinking about the same thing. Checked out the Honda Fit. It'd work OK. But I prefer the Toyota Maxim with it's moon-roof option. Was thinking about just getting one of those and having a trailer hitch mounted. That'd do the trick with a hitch-mounted rack. Jeff N.

[Ken Robb]

Unless gas went to $12 a gallon I don't see me going from an M3 to a Prius :)
Since a prime reason for this possible trade is a short car so I can get the Ducati in front of the car on the side of the garage opposite the 330i I think the Mazda is too long. I like how they drive. My bikes are at least 60cm c-c.
I have a Hoolywood and another rack that mounts off the back :) or on the trunk lid of cars of many shapes but I would like to have the bike inside for security.

[saab2000]

Ken,

My GTI won't beat your M3. But it'll be so close in your mirror that you'll be thinking, "that thing cost $22,000 and I can't drop it! ***?!" :D

I did that with a friend with a 330i (admittedly not an M3) and he was pretty shocked. Beat my to 100 mph by about a door length. I love bang for buck cars! And the GTI is imminently practical.

[jeffg]

i've had a mini cooper s since 2003, i've fit two bikes inside (both wheels off, and if i remember a seatpost out of one also, but also had a set of golf clubs and a garment bag full of clothes in there too).

you can easily fit a normal (less than 58) size bike in the mini, i'd recommend pulling the front wheel off. although you have to move the passenger seat all the way forward to do it.

mini is a great car, pretty tough to beat, although a GTI would be second choice...or if you want something more 'green' get a prius or the new honda insight coming out fairly soon.

+1

I take bikes in the Mini all the time and drive to events in it.

A GTI would be more practical in some senses but I went for better gas mileage.

The other option is the rear bike rack for the Mini that can handle two bikes. Once I get one of these I can take my wife and boys on weekend trips in the car!

[saab2000]

+1

I take bikes in the Mini all the time and drive to events in it.

A GTI would be more practical in some senses but I went for better gas mileage.

The other option is the rear bike rack for the Mini that can handle two bikes. Once I get one of these I can take my wife and boys on weekend trips in the car!

The GTI is not bad on gas. At least not if driven reasonably conservatively, which I suppose defeats the purpose.

But in the US with mine I get 32-34 mpg on the highway road trips I've done. Not bad for a car that'll do 150 MPH and 0-60 in about 6 seconds.

[xjoex]

I have put my road bike, mtn bike and cross bikes all in the back of my Mini. Not at the same time :). But I do take both wheels off as that takes an additional 20 seconds for me.

I also have a roof rack that I use if I ride with someone else.

Here I am getting ready for a cold cold cold cross race in my mini:
http://boulder.inotion.com/joe/2008/11-30_cross/IMG_1287.jpg

And last week I was riding at a state game land with an unplowed snow covered dirt lot to park in. I got back from my ride and another mini was parked next to me, they had a cool rear rack on their mini.

Plus the mini is a blast to drive.

-Joe

[Bittersweet]

Long time fan and former owner of a couple GTIs. Currently own a JCW Mini S. The beloved hot hatch genre. Both are great cars. My guess is you can squeeze in a 60cm with wheels off in a Mini. The GTI is cavernous and will easily take the bike. The GTI is quite a bit longer if you're really trying to be short for space reasons in the garage. Check both out and see what you think. Both have great raise/lower seats and have a lot of headroom which is key in my family as I'm 6'5" and my wife is 5'4". Quite a bit more headroom than an M3 actually. Good luck.

[Ken Robb]

I have enough headroom in both BMWs even though they have sunroofs. There's no room to spare when I wear a helmet though.

I used to enjoy driving "revvy" engines but I now appreciate the more torque/fewer revs genre. That makes the turbo versions of Vws, MInis, et al the ones that appeal to me.

[Blue Jays]

Another option is the V6-powered Volkswagen GTI or Audi A3 if you desire a bit more "snarl" in your engine.
Both should allow bikes to stand upright in the rear with front wheel removed and forks cinched to an appropriate-width 2" x 4" coupled with mounts.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=Blue Jays]Another option is the V6-powered Volkswagen GTI or Audi A3 if you desire a bit more "snarl" in your engine.
Both should allow bikes to stand upright in the rear with front wheel removed and forks cinched to an appropriate-width 2" x 4" coupled with mounts.[/QUOT

I think the irst is discontinued and the second is too long--nice cars though.

[Blue Jays]

Didn't know about the V6-powered version of the Volkswagen GTI being discontinued. Definitely a cool ride, especially that R32 model.
According to Audi A3 enthusiast websites, total length of that vehicle is 168.7" / 4286mm regardless of powerplant. Don't know if that helps.

[David Kirk]

I've driven the R32 and it's very cool. The VR6 GTI understeers like a pig. I did not like that car. Fun in a straight line but I never go straight :)

dave

[saab2000]

'cuz it's too heavy. Get the 2 liter turbo. Understeers too, but not as bad.

[Ken Robb]

Mini is just over 8 feet long. A3 is too big for my "squeeze play". Heck maybe I should grow up and sell the Ducati? All the bikes but 2?

[David Kirk]

Mini is just over 8 feet long. A3 is too big for my "squeeze play". Heck maybe I should grow up and sell the Ducati? All the bikes but 2?

Your Minis must be smaller out there. Mine is a solid 12' long. The original mini was 10'.

dave

[rounder]

Mini is just over 8 feet long. A3 is too big for my "squeeze play". Heck maybe I should grow up and sell the Ducati? All the bikes but 2?

Maybe you could knock a few feet off the kitchen and extend the garage (just kidding).

[Ken Robb]

Your Minis must be smaller out there. Mine is a solid 12' long. The original mini was 10'.

dave

I keep telling Leslie that everything in So California looks shorter, probably due to the crowds. :) I think the blurb I read quoting 8' had to be about the wheelbase.

[Avispa]

Check this out! (http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f5/smart-car-bike-rack-i-would-have-never-guessed-18/)

Looks like they have no problem hauling their bikes...

..A..

[Ken Robb]

Check this out! (http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f5/smart-car-bike-rack-i-would-have-never-guessed-18/)

Looks like they have no problem hauling their bikes...

..A..

They have to have their bikes along so they can use them to tow the "Smart" car up the hills. :)

[paulandmonster]

rear wheel stays on with top down both wheels off top up.

[thwart]

Just got a Fit, and the 2009's do have a few more horses... the car can be entertaining to drive.

Plus a big tuner following, if that sort of thing appeals to you.

A little noisy at 75 mph, though. And the Sport model has an 'active' ride.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I have an '08 Mazdaspeed 3 and it will easily swallow three bikes with the front wheels off if lay them on top of each other with blankets in between. It takes a bit of care to lift them all in, but it works great in terms of space. Last August I took my daughter on our annual vacation pilgrimage up to Acadia and I got my cross bike, her road bike, and an extra set of wheels for the cross bike in the Mazda along with all our other vacation gear for hiking, picnicking, etc. with huge room left over. Along with that it's a ball to drive. A heartbeat of lag for the turbo to kick in, but then it takes off like a bullet in any of the first five gears. 263 hp with a little torque steer, but nothing at all unmanageable. Bose sound system, leather seats, xenon lights. You'll leave me behind in your M3, but only if you take some insane chances.

Also, there was a thread here two years(?) ago about the Honda Fit. Forum member got one and posted pics of his with an insane number of bikes all stuffed inside.

BBD

[mikki]

I am looking at the Honda Insight which is coming out for purchase this next year. I understand that if my current ride can hang for yet another year, the 2010 Insight will get 70 mpg..whoo hoo. And, since my bike is pretty small, should be able to fit her no problem into the car.

Merry Christmas everyone!!
(I wonder how many bikes can fit into Santa's sleigh?)

[saab2000]

Those Mazdas are nice. I drove Ms. Ginger's this summer. She survived the ordeal.

I wish it were available as a 2-door.

Too bad this version of the Opel Astra is not available in the US.

http://www.opel.ch/img/showroom/normal/As_gtc_5.jpg

[BumbleBeeDave]

Those Mazdas are nice. I drove Ms. Ginger's this summer. She survived the ordeal. [/IMG]

. . . with 100 more horsepower. That's the speed3 version. It goes like stink. :eek: :D

BBD

[Climb01742]

Long time fan and former owner of a couple GTIs. Currently own a JCW Mini S. The beloved hot hatch genre. Both are great cars. My guess is you can squeeze in a 60cm with wheels off in a Mini. The GTI is cavernous and will easily take the bike. The GTI is quite a bit longer if you're really trying to be short for space reasons in the garage. Check both out and see what you think. Both have great raise/lower seats and have a lot of headroom which is key in my family as I'm 6'5" and my wife is 5'4". Quite a bit more headroom than an M3 actually. Good luck.

as a driver's car, how would you compare your mini to your gti's? much appreciated.

[saab2000]

as a driver's car, how would you compare your mini to your gti's? much appreciated.

You didn't ask me and I never drove a Mini, but I am not turned on by the gimmicky styling, especially inside.

The GTI without a sunroof (it is available without, awesome) has headroom for a very tall person. And plenty of legroom. I know you're not super tall, and I'm not either, but I HATE the claustrophobic feel of sitting in a car with a 1/2 inch of headroom.

The GTI comes with summer tires on 18" rims or all-seasons on 17" rims. I went for the 17 inch wheels but still bought winter tires for snow.

The big problem with the GTI is that when I bought mine it sat about 1" taller than the Euro version. Supposedly this was due to some odd US side-impact test and where the impact bar is located on the GTI. Who knows. But the added inch of height is noticable and highly annoying. Eventually I'll pay for a suspension upgrade which will lower the car. The Eibach Pro Kit is on my wish list.

Also, some real rubber will happen. The all-seasons are like riding Armadillos compared with Veloflex tubulars.

Finally, the car would be even better if it weighed 200 lbs less. Sometimes it feels kind of heavy.

Just the opinions of a GTI owner. It's a terrific car about 98% of the time. But that 2% is noticable.

I'd get one again. But I really wish I had a BMW 135i. Or a Porsche Cayman S.

[Z3c]

I'd get one again. But I really wish I had a BMW 135i. Or a Porsche Cayman S.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, that is like saying I really like my Tarmac but I wish I had a Crumpton; not really a fair comparison in terms of price. I think you can get a bike in a Cayman if you take both wheels off and it is a 48cm without handlebars..

Scott

[saab2000]

I'd get one again. But I really wish I had a BMW 135i. Or a Porsche Cayman S.

Honestly, that is like saying I really like my Tarmac but I wish I had a Crumpton; not really a fair comparison in terms of price. I think you can get a bike in a Cayman if you take both wheels off and it is a 48cm without handlebars..

Scott[/QUOTE]

You're right on the price comparison.

Anyway, if I actually had a Cayman S and had to carry a bike I'd go back to Switzerland and get a custom rack. IIRC I could find someone who would make something that would clamp one somewhere to the car that would allow carriage of a bike.

Two seat car. Two bikes and wheels.

The Cayman S makes me weak. And Mr. Sandy owns one.

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/porsche/cayman/s/2005_porsche_cayman_s_20_m.jpg

[Z3c]

Porsche offers a bike rack; that is the purpose of the 4 little flip-up tabs on the roof, attachment pts for feet and then a variety of bars.. Heck, my 996TT even had them; nothing like the concept of driving 185 with stuff on the roof!

Have fun,

Scott

[Ken Robb]

Just got a Fit, and the 2009's do have a few more horses... the car can be entertaining to drive.

Plus a big tuner following, if that sort of thing appeals to you.

A little noisy at 75 mph, though. And the Sport model has an 'active' ride.

I drove a 2009 and felt like I had to wring its neck like a chicken to keep up w/SoCal traffic. Very efficient but no fun for me.

[Ken Robb]

nobody has mentioned the Volvo C30. I sat in a couple at the Auto Show and was favorably impressed. The magazine tests, however, have said the handling is not very sporty and the braking distance was mediocre. They come with all-season tires which could account for this performance lack.

[michael white]

one sporty car I've been reading about is a Toyota/Subaru joint venture. It will basically fill the slot of the departed Celica, but will be, get this, a rear drive,somewhat practical sports car with a Subaru boxer engine, almost midmounted. It should have a great weight dist. and they say 200 hp at about 2700? lb, so for a coupe under 20 grand it'll be a lot of fun. It will be sold here as the replacement for the Scion TC, in Japan as a Toyota, I think, and elsewhere as a Subaru. Anyway, just another option for those of us not on Sandy's budget, and frankly I can pretty much feel what the car will be like to drive already.

[Climb01742]

the cayman s makes me weak too. the size especially. the size of old 911s. the '87 911 i once owned is still my favorite car ever.

[rwl]

Hi Ken,

For any old-time racing fans, Butch Stilson used to show up to races driving a Lotus Europa. He'd stuff racing wheels and even spares in the passenger seat, and somehow wore the frame while he was driving, torso through the main triangle. Thats the smallest non-convertible I've seen a bicycle fit in, for sure. So, I guess it's really a matter of willingness to look ridiculous, as opposed to actual size.

[Ken Robb]

:) I drove one of the early Europas and I had to bend my wrist down and back to grasp the shift lever that was midway between my elbow and wrist on the console. Tiny indeed. Best handling car I had ever driven---in 1969.

[Louis]

nobody has mentioned the Volvo C30.

They caught my eye a while back (I have to replace my '97 Integra eventually) but the hatch opening looks tiny. Might be a hassle putting anything (esp a bike) in there.

Louis

[Ti Designs]

:) I drove one of the early Europas and I had to bend my wrist down and back to grasp the shift lever that was midway between my elbow and wrist on the console. Tiny indeed. Best handling car I had ever driven---in 1969.

How people can look back fondly about all the quirks of that car is beyond me. You can't drive the damn thing if you have wide feet or long arms, and their straight line braking performance was just slightly worse than the VW microbus. There's no such thing as heel & toe with a Europa, if your heel was too far into the footwell it was probably planted on the solid throttle linkage. As much as I claim that driving is all about the driver, that car gets in the way.

[Ken Robb]

How people can look back fondly about all the quirks of that car is beyond me. You can't drive the damn thing if you have wide feet or long arms, and their straight line braking performance was just slightly worse than the VW microbus. There's no such thing as heel & toe with a Europa, if your heel was too far into the footwell it was probably planted on the solid throttle linkage. As much as I claim that driving is all about the driver, that car gets in the way.

Note the timing--and it did handle well--for 1969. My size 12 shoes were a real problem but I was driving it on the recently abandoned airport in Huntsville,AL. I didn't know how to heel-toe then either. I did double clutch though.

[jeffg]

You didn't ask me and I never drove a Mini, but I am not turned on by the gimmicky styling, especially inside.

The GTI without a sunroof (it is available without, awesome) has headroom for a very tall person. And plenty of legroom. I know you're not super tall, and I'm not either, but I HATE the claustrophobic feel of sitting in a car with a 1/2 inch of headroom.

The GTI comes with summer tires on 18" rims or all-seasons on 17" rims. I went for the 17 inch wheels but still bought winter tires for snow.

The big problem with the GTI is that when I bought mine it sat about 1" taller than the Euro version. Supposedly this was due to some odd US side-impact test and where the impact bar is located on the GTI. Who knows. But the added inch of height is noticable and highly annoying. Eventually I'll pay for a suspension upgrade which will lower the car. The Eibach Pro Kit is on my wish list.

Also, some real rubber will happen. The all-seasons are like riding Armadillos compared with Veloflex tubulars.

Finally, the car would be even better if it weighed 200 lbs less. Sometimes it feels kind of heavy.

Just the opinions of a GTI owner. It's a terrific car about 98% of the time. But that 2% is noticable.

I'd get one again. But I really wish I had a BMW 135i. Or a Porsche Cayman S.


As a Mini owner, the styling is definitely a personal choice, but many of the gimmicky features are BMW additions that are in the Euro BMWs as well.

Bottom line for me:

a $23K car that gets noticeably better mileage than a GTI, is faster 0-60 and speed limited about 10 mph faster works for me.

Plus, my boys & wife love it.

I test drove a GTI and would be happy with one, but the gas mileage differential and somewhat cheap feel of the seats and other details made the Mini and hands-down choice for me given that we already have a Volvo wagon for longer trips, but then again I drink champagne cocktails ...

BTW, the 2.5T Volvo V70 is about as fast as the GTI 0-60

[Climb01742]

As a Mini owner, the styling is definitely a personal choice, but many of the gimmicky features are BMW additions that are in the Euro BMWs as well.

Bottom line for me:

a $23K car that gets noticeably better mileage than a GTI, is faster 0-60 and speed limited about 10 mph faster works for me.

Plus, my boys & wife love it.

I test drove a GTI and would be happy with one, but the gas mileage differential and somewhat cheap feel of the seats and other details made the Mini and hands-down choice for me given that we already have a Volvo wagon for longer trips, but then again I drink champagne cocktails ...

BTW, the 2.5T Volvo V70 is about as fast as the GTI 0-60

jeff, beyond styling -- which is highly subjective but i kinda like -- the only substantial question i've heard raised about mini's is their somewhat spotty quality. have you had any quality/reliability issues? for the money, they certainly seem to give bang-for-buck performance and mpg. thanks!

[jeffg]

jeff, beyond styling -- which is highly subjective but i kinda like -- the only substantial question i've heard raised about mini's is their somewhat spotty quality. have you had any quality/reliability issues? for the money, they certainly seem to give bang-for-buck performance and mpg. thanks!

Climb,

I have had absolutely zero issues, but I only have about 13K miles on it. I have driven it hard over local mountain roads but mostly just a short commute (gunning it on several S-turns).

I have heard that recently there have been more issues, but I am sure there is other information out there on this.

To be fair, I love VWs as well, and this would be my choice (especially with a Diesel), but this matches the S' performance for the most part and would have a bit more room for bikes/passengers.

http://www.volkswagen.de/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/de3/modelle/scirocco.html

[Ken Robb]

well Consumers' Reports lists VW reliability below average so to get the fun of driving a GTI maybe one just has to take a chance. With a new car warranty it might just be an annoyance?

[Bittersweet]

as a driver's car, how would you compare your mini to your gti's? much appreciated.

The GTI with the turbo 4 is better weight wise. I had a VR6 that I would agree with DK was nose heavy and pushed when driven hard. Fairly quick off the line and no turbo lag though. K Robb says he likes torque and you need displacement if you want to go that route.

The JCW MCS is a lot of fun to drive. It gives me a little smile every time I hop in and it is my daily driver. Not that quick off the line. A fair bit of lag (supercharger in the early cars), torque steer etc but the handling is great. It is so much fun to toss around. I have a 2003 and the stock suspension is quite stiff compared to the GTI and something about the size and weight make it just a little more fun to me. The JCW bits are expensive and if you're handy or know someone you can recreate yourself. Pulley, injectors, airbox, etc. Contact HMS Motorsport or Turner in your area. I found a JCW online with 9k miles that was very reasonable. I'm a sap for the real minis and the Cooper connection resonated with me. Snow tires on all wheels, a roof rack and you too can feel like Paddy Hopkirk.

I have a fairly hotted up '73 2002 which I've had for the last 20 yrs and the joy the MCS brings is similar. Like bikes though, what you like is all personal. Come to D2R2 next year and you can thrash away on mine and see what you think. You also have a dealer fairly close in Peabody.

I haven't driven the Mazda but a lot of the polls place that one first.

[Ken Robb]

the new Mini, like 135i and 335i has all but imperceptible turbo lag---like much bigger displacement engines :) :beer: :banana:

[FL_MarkD]

Another vote for the Mazdaspeed 3 here. A blast to drive, 25mpg as a daily driver. Handles great, the turbo tests the limits of the traction control on a regular basis. :D And as said above it will hold multiple bikes. Carrying one 54cm Atlanta I don't even take off the front wheel, just turn the bars.

Life is too short to drive mundane cars.

Mark

[kestrel]

My 56cm fits fine in the trunk of my 03 Z06. My bike bags and a suitcase fit in the package area behind the seats, and I get 30 MPG on the highway cruising between 65 and 75 MPH.

[Ken Robb]

My 56cm fits fine in the trunk of my 03 Z06. My bike bags and a suitcase fit in the package area behind the seats, and I get 30 MPG on the highway cruising between 65 and 75 MPH.

I just knew there had to be a ZO6 driver somewhere who could hold it down to 65-75mph. :)

[SpeedyChix]

Ken,

My GTI won't beat your M3. But it'll be so close in your mirror that you'll be thinking, "that thing cost $22,000 and I can't drop it! ***?!" :D

I did that with a friend with a 330i (admittedly not an M3) and he was pretty shocked. Beat my to 100 mph by about a door length. I love bang for buck cars! And the GTI is imminently practical.

The R32 (2004) is one heck of a quick bunny. 3.2L V6. I just drop the back seats. Marginally quicker than the GTI. All good fun driving. Haven't driven the current iteration of the R (the body style of saab2000's GTI). Less specific content went into the current ones and the price went up.

Enjoy the hunt.

[johnnymossville]

My 56cm fits fine in the trunk of my 03 Z06. My bike bags and a suitcase fit in the package area behind the seats, and I get 30 MPG on the highway cruising between 65 and 75 MPH.

The Z06 would be a great choice! :)

[Ken Robb]

well we got a bit of thread drift from my original question as to the Smallest car that would hold a bike because I'm trying to fit 2 cars, one motorcycle and 10 bikes into a "two-car" garage. This second car has to be short so the bikes can fit in front and narrow too would be even better. I think a Mini would fit but maybe not hold my 60-63cm bikes. A GTi might it and would hold a bike. Mazda 3 I think is too big.

I can find the size of the cars but I'm looking for my pals' experience hauling their bikes in various vehicles. The Honda Fit probably would (Fit) but I didn't think the 2009 model I drove was any fun and I don't think any of its competitors would excite me either. Mini S Clubman might do it. I haven't driven that model yet.

Meanwhile I've been watching the values of used cars fall through the floor over the past 3 weeks. Used 2007-08 Minis were selling for about the same price as new ones ($ 23,000-26,000) and now they can't get any bids on eBay for $19,995. 2007-08 BMW 335i all over the place for less than $29,000.
The 335i is bigger than I want but wow, what a lot of car for that money.

[kestrel]

I just knew there had to be a ZO6 driver somewhere who could hold it down to 65-75mph. :)

That Z controls my speed better than any vehicle I've ever owned. Wife said, "One ticket and it's on eBay the next morning!" :argue: :crap:

Oh, the bikes fit in the garage hanging from the ceiling over the Z and the other vehicles. Plenty of room!

[blharrell]

well we got a bit of thread drift from my original question as to the Smallest car that would hold a bike... I think a Mini would fit but maybe not hold my 60-63cm bikes.


Ken,

I'm not quite ready to buy, but am having the same thoughts as you and ride 58/59cm frame. I've been leaning toward the Clubman also but don't have anything pushing me at the moment. I'll be interested to hear more as you drive and make your decision.

Brent

[Ken Robb]

That Z controls my speed better than any vehicle I've ever owned. Wife said, "One ticket and it's on eBay the next morning!" :argue: :crap:

Oh, the bikes fit in the garage hanging from the ceiling over the Z and the other vehicles. Plenty of room!

the real problem is the Ducati--the bikes are hanging already but I get get the Duc on a hook. Maybe our Governor Arnold could, but not me.

[kestrel]

the real problem is the Ducati--the bikes are hanging already but I get get the Duc on a hook. Maybe our Governor Arnold could, but not me.

Ever tried a pulley system?

Years ago I had an old 160 Honda that was in the way in my single car garage. I used pulleys and a small cable crank to hoist it high enough to get the car in the garage. Of course, it was an old hatchback VW with a gazillion miles on it so if the bike fell it wouldn't be a great loss.

[Blue Jays]

What about a well-insulated, heated, and tasteful shed attached to the existing garage?
I'm sure an architect could render something that would work and would look fine.
That way everything stays warm and dry and precise vehicle length doesn't become so critical in the purchase decision.

[Louis]

I'm trying to fit 2 cars, one motorcycle and 10 bikes into a "two-car" garage.

Folks who mistreat their bikes by putting them in the garage should not be allowed to post here. What do you think the rest of the house is for? ;)

[Ken Robb]

What about a well-insulated, heated, and tasteful shed attached to the existing garage?
I'm sure an architect could render something that would work and would look fine.
That way everything stays warm and dry and precise vehicle length doesn't become so critical in the purchase decision.

yeah, my condo board would love that. Oh, I'm on the board--never mind. No chance. Again: the bikes are hung friom the ceiling and no problem--it's the length of theDucati and the car that have to fit in the same stall in the garage that's the challenge.

[ksroadie]

Anyone know of a small, fuel efficient car that will swallow a 56cm bike whole? Would prefer not to remove the front wheel. (Too lazy I guess.) FL_MarkD mentioned the Mazdaspeed 3. Any others? Maybe the original Scion SB? Thanks.

[oldfatslow]

Seats down I can put my bike in without taking off either wheel. With my roof rack I can carry three bikes plus my tandem plus some wheels.

My car gets 25mpg in mixed city/highway driving and 30 highway.

It has a little turbo lag but its very quick 0-60 and is made for highway cruising.

With the seats up it seats five.

Not exactly small but it does get good mileage relatively speaking.

[Ray]

Anyone know of a small, fuel efficient car that will swallow a 56cm bike whole? Would prefer not to remove the front wheel. (Too lazy I guess.) FL_MarkD mentioned the Mazdaspeed 3. Any others? Maybe the original Scion SB? Thanks.
Didn't mention it because it didn't meet Ken's needs/wants. But your criteria sound different, so check out the Honda Fit. Do a search - there have been a few threads on this car and its bike swallowing capacity. One can slide into the back seat area easily. Two with the back seats down and a fork mount in the back - just remove front wheels. There's even an amazing web link to a couple that puts a tandem IN theirs - with two people. It doesn't have a huge amount of power, but I find it more than adequate for my needs. I have an '08 and haven't tried to put bikes in an '09, but everything I've read says they're slightly bigger inside, so it should work at least as well.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

Didn't mention it because it didn't meet Ken's needs/wants. But your criteria sound different, so check out the Honda Fit. Do a search - there have been a few threads on this car and its bike swallowing capacity. One can slide into the back seat area easily. Two with the back seats down and a fork mount in the back - just remove front wheels. There's even an amazing web link to a couple that puts a tandem IN theirs - with two people. It doesn't have a huge amount of power, but I find it more than adequate for my needs. I have an '08 and haven't tried to put bikes in an '09, but everything I've read says they're slightly bigger inside, so it should work at least as well.

-Ray

ray, how does your fit drive in the snow? have you put on snow tires? thanks.

[mschoeffler]

I can get my 54cm frame in the back of my 911 coupe, wheels off of course.

[Ray]

ray, how does your fit drive in the snow? have you put on snow tires? thanks.
I haven't driven it in any heavy snow and haven't put snow tires on it. (Snow tires are kind of a foreign concept down here in southeast PA anyway for the limited number of snows we get in the average winter). It's done fine in the small snows we've had this year, but I don't do a lot of driving and less when the weather sucks, so I'm the wrong guy to ask.

I know our Odyssey used to do real well and our Accord does well enough. The Fit is lighter than either of those, so I'd expect a bit less traction, but I haven't had any problems with it in limited snow driving.

-Ray

[rounder]

the real problem is the Ducati--the bikes are hanging already but I get get the Duc on a hook. Maybe our Governor Arnold could, but not me.

Ken, i am not sure how big your garage is but it sounds reasonably big. Anyway, i was clicking around and found this. The thing lifts the bike out of the way.

http://www.mygaragestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=325

[Ken Robb]

that's a cool idea but I don't have a wall where I can use it. One long wall has my just-installed custom cabinets and work bench and the other side is the laundry. PLus I ride the Ducati so often it would be too much trouble lowering and raising the elevator. It would be a good solution for a rarely-ridden show bike though.

[palincss]

yeah, my condo board would love that. Oh, I'm on the board--never mind. No chance. Again: the bikes are hung friom the ceiling and no problem--it's the length of theDucati and the car that have to fit in the same stall in the garage that's the challenge.

Obviously, from everything you've said it's the Ducati that's the problem...

[Blue Jays]

Given the beautiful Ducati is the challenge...even impacting vehicle length that can be chosen...is there an opportunity to rent an additional garage in the same complex to warehouse the motorcycle and bicycles?
This would leave one garage strictly for cars. Just trying to think outside of the box. :beer:

[mso]

I easiley get my frame in our Prius with the front wheel off. My brother in law does the same in a Honda Fit.

[pjm]

Ken, I think there is only one vehicle that meets all of your requirements, and that is the JCW Clubman.

[David Kirk]

Ken, I think there is only one vehicle that meets all of your requirements, and that is the JCW Clubman.

Boy you've said a mouthful there.

+1

Dave

[Ken Robb]

that may be true. I'm seriously looking at a 2007 regular Mini S with 5,000 miles on it. I think Dave said he couldn't fit his 63cm bike in a mini but I'm hoping one of my 60cm bikes might go in if I remove both wheels. Failing that maybe I can use one of my universal racks?

Lots of very low mileage minis languishing on the market. I guess it's partly the bad economy causing owners to want to get out from under car loans and potential buyers to hang on to their wallets. Another possibility is that they were not really suitable for the original buyers who got carried away by dreams of high mpg from cars they thought were "cute". One seller wants to unload his Mini S so he can buy a Lexus so you know he made a BIG mistake.
Lots of cars offered and re-offered at "book value" getting no bids at all.

[David Kirk]

that may be true. I'm seriously looking at a 2007 regular Mini S with 5,000 miles on it. I think Dave said he couldn't fit his 63cm bike in a mini but I'm hoping one of my 60cm bikes might go in if I remove both wheels. Failing that maybe I can use one of my universal racks?

Lots of very low mileage minis languishing on the market. I guess it's partly the bad economy causing owners to want to get out from under car loans and potential buyers to hang on to their wallets. Another possibility is that they were not really suitable for the original buyers who got carried away by dreams of high mpg from cars they thought were "cute". One seller wants to unload his Mini S so he can buy a Lexus so you know he made a BIG mistake.
Lots of cars offered and re-offered at "book value" getting no bids at all.

That's how I ended up in mine.

A very good drivers car.

dave

[JeffS]

that may be true. I'm seriously looking at a 2007 regular Mini S with 5,000 miles on it. I think Dave said he couldn't fit his 63cm bike in a mini but I'm hoping one of my 60cm bikes might go in if I remove both wheels. Failing that maybe I can use one of my universal racks?

Lots of very low mileage minis languishing on the market. I guess it's partly the bad economy causing owners to want to get out from under car loans and potential buyers to hang on to their wallets. Another possibility is that they were not really suitable for the original buyers who got carried away by dreams of high mpg from cars they thought were "cute". One seller wants to unload his Mini S so he can buy a Lexus so you know he made a BIG mistake.
Lots of cars offered and re-offered at "book value" getting no bids at all.

My 60-63 bikes fit in my 2002 mini with wheels removed. It was sometimes a challenge to determine the right angle of the bike to get the seat to clear, but I always figured it out eventually.

[SpeedyChix]

Noticed a Mazda 5 on the road yesterday, not sure how the dimensions are but it appears to be a taller vehicle w/o being long/wide. Not sure about rear hatch.

[Blue Jays]

A guy from my LBS is considering purchase of a Clubman model.
Hope he does it because it will likely make for a superb bicycle hauler.

[Ken Robb]

Noticed a Mazda 5 on the road yesterday, not sure how the dimensions are but it appears to be a taller vehicle w/o being long/wide. Not sure about rear hatch.

I like Mazdas--I never drove one that I didn't think was a good handler compared to other brands in whatever class they were; Mazda 3 vs. Corolla ,Mazda 6 vs Camry, etc.

I have a 1998 M3 with fold-down seats that works great hauling my bikes but, small as it is, it's too long to fit in one side of the garage with the Ducati in front of it. The main reason for my research is to find a car that is really short, not too small for 1 person and a bike, and still fun to drive.

[nelsonk]

Hi Ken,

I drive an '08 R32 and with the back seat folded down, I can barely fit my Moots laying down without the front wheel. My Moots saddle height is 79cm and headtube length 20cm so its a fairly large bike. I'm 6' and with my bike in the car I have to move the seatback a touch forward. A buddy of mine rides a 59cm Salsa and is also 6' and we managed to fit both bikes lying on top of each other fairly easily. The car is 167 inches long so its fairly small. Though if I had to do it over again I'd opt for an A3.

[Joellogicman]

But Curtis Inglis got a bike in a Smart:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/retrotec-inglis-cycles/2349658377/in/set-72157604187208010/

[Ken Robb]

Hi Ken,

I drive an '08 R32 and with the back seat folded down, I can barely fit my Moots laying down without the front wheel. My Moots saddle height is 79cm and headtube length 20cm so its a fairly large bike. I'm 6' and with my bike in the car I have to move the seatback a touch forward. A buddy of mine rides a 59cm Salsa and is also 6' and we managed to fit both bikes lying on top of each other fairly easily. The car is 167 inches long so its fairly small. Though if I had to do it over again I'd opt for an A3.

We could trade bikes and not adjust anything. What is the critical measurement, i.e. what parts scrape/bump the car?

Playing around with a tape measure today made me think I'm ok with a length of 13 feet and a mini is just over 12'. The Clubman is a foot or so longer---kinda tight.

[nelsonk]

I generally load the bike back tire first. If the seatback isn't exactly between 12 and 1 o'clock, the back tire will brush the backside of my seatback. I also have to angle the handlebars so they face the headliner to clear the hatch. If you remove both wheels, it would be a real easy fit. With both wheels removed, it would probably be an easy fit in the Mini also. The R32 isn't a real fuel efficient car for the Bay Area. The 2.0T in the GTI is as potent with fuel efficiency closer to the Mini.

[Ken Robb]

I generally load the bike back tire first. If the seatback isn't exactly between 12 and 1 o'clock, the back tire will brush the backside of my seatback. I also have to angle the handlebars so they face the headliner to clear the hatch. If you remove both wheels, it would be a real easy fit. With both wheels removed, it would probably be an easy fit in the Mini also. The R32 isn't a real fuel efficient car for the Bay Area. The 2.0T in the GTI is as potent with fuel efficiency closer to the Mini.

yeah, but they're both FUN!

[lavi]

We have a guy in town that has assebled a bike rack on the back of his motorcycle. It's pretty trippy looking, but it's a cool design. He wins on the mpg thing.

I'd love to get a mini. Just need to sell the Beemer 1st.

[SpeedyChix]

yeah, but they're both FUN!
I'm a lot smaller with a 53frame. I can get the bike in w/both wheels in my R32 ('04). If I take off the front wheel it is stupid easy. Load in back wheel first and also bars turned 'up' as the bike lays in the back. LOADS of driving fun. If the newer ones are 95% of the initial R and they fit in your space: enjoy the drive!

[snah]

Haven't read all the posts, so this may be a duplicate suggestion, but what about the Subaru WRX STI? 300hp, about 300 torque, all wheel drive and now a hatch. It's tough to find a small car that competes with the drive of an M3. I'm facing the same problem, just minus the Ducati.

[Blue Jays]

snah, that's definitely a cool ride.
Lots and lots of viable solutions have been offered. We're just waiting to see what happens!

[snah]

Ken, guess what I'd like to know is when are you going to make this decision? The anticipation is killin' me!

[ajax]

Lucked into a deal on a Legend Ti about a month ago--tried to get some info on my serial # and stumbled across this forum. I took a particular interest in this thread, but I'm apalled by what I've seen. Where is the non-elitist viewpoint? At the risk of not fitting in, I'm offering a Joe Six-Packer solution:

A year ago I bought a 2001 fully loaded PT Cruiser with a manual transmission for $6,000. I know there's a lot of them out on the road but the good news with that is the shade tree mechanics know how to work on them so you dodge the high up-front fees the dealers charge to even look at them. Not that it's been a maintenance hog, but over the year I've put a couple grand into it to get it up to speed.

The rear seats come out easily which gives you a ton of space in the back.
So far, the biggest bike I've tried is a 58 cm that fits by dropping the front wheel into the rear passenger foot-well with the handlebars turned 90 degrees and wedged up against the back of the passenger seat. With the saddle in contact with the side/headliner, it fits in there upright and intact with a lot of room left over for other stuff.

I've taken a couple trips out west on this basis. It's easy to move the bike in and out in order to take a ride without disturbing your other stuff. Set the cruise at 75 mph and it runs 25 mpg. The traction control combined with the all-weather tires keep it out of the ditches. The driving position and seat are upright and extremely comfortable. It's not a sports car by any means but all-in-all I have a lot of fun pretending, which is the key to life for Joe-Six Packer.

The bottom line is that I have tens of thousands of dollars freed up to allow me to be an elitist for other things--I dare anyone to ask me if I feel any hint of guilt for springing for a new set of SLX3s to dial in the reach to my campy hoods.

[fiamme red]

Didn't mention it because it didn't meet Ken's needs/wants. But your criteria sound different, so check out the Honda Fit. Do a search - there have been a few threads on this car and its bike swallowing capacity. One can slide into the back seat area easily. Two with the back seats down and a fork mount in the back - just remove front wheels. There's even an amazing web link to a couple that puts a tandem IN theirs - with two people. It doesn't have a huge amount of power, but I find it more than adequate for my needs. I have an '08 and haven't tried to put bikes in an '09, but everything I've read says they're slightly bigger inside, so it should work at least as well.

-Rayhttp://groups.google.com/group/randon/msg/50941414fd9ccfbe

Pamela Blalock writes: "We can get 2 people, three single bikes - upright, front wheels off, 2 sets of extra wheels, cooler, food, and luggage for 2 INSIDE our Honda Fit. We did just this for a race this weekend, where we wanted to keep the bikes out of the weather before the race, and have other bikes/wheels to ride after the race. We can also get the tandem, upright, front wheel off, and all the above luggage INSIDE."

[Ken Robb]

my 60cm bikes fit inside my Mini Cooper S when I remove the front wheel. 32.4 mpg overall including some track time. 38 mpg on freeway drones.

It's like a go Kart. It turns in like a go kart and it rides like a go Kart. 172 hp in a light car makes for a pretty entertaining drive. :)

[RPS]

"We can also get the tandem, upright, front wheel off, and all the above luggage INSIDE."Did you notice the captain's saddle and stoker bars are off? That would be something I wouldn't want to do on a regular basis.

I wish I could do that on my older CRV but the back seat and front seat won’t fold down at the same time. Otherwise I could put our tandem inside the same way and ride the car in tandem seating. :rolleyes: It'd be OK for short distances.

[keithreynolds]

Here's a nice combo.

http://i31.tinypic.com/1zmcnea.jpg

[allegretto]

my 09 Jetta TDi will swallow two bikes if i lower the back seats easily

gets 40-50 MPG and quick enough in traffic due to the diesel's TQ characteristics to go wherever i want in traffic.

while i keep the Porsche for blowing doors off, the Jetta is a wonderful brown paper bag sort of car!

[dd74]

LOL! I can fit my entire bike in my Porsche 911 (53cm, front wheel off). But I can only do this from the right side as the left has a non-adjustable Sparco race seat. :rolleyes:

If I want to be kind, I use the Mountaineer. Yes, it's a pig, but it's a comfy pig to both bike and me. :)

[jbay]

Did you notice the captain's saddle and stoker bars are off? That would be something I wouldn't want to do on a regular basis.That photo was taken the first time we put the tandem inside, when we did indeed remove the captain's seatpost. However, we have refined our loading technique since then and no longer remove anything except the front wheel.

-- John

[goonster]

32.4 mpg overall including some track time. 38 mpg on freeway drones.
That's awesome, Ken. Supercharged or turbo? Run-flat tires?

[pjm]

my 09 Jetta TDi will swallow two bikes if i lower the back seats easily

gets 40-50 MPG and quick enough in traffic due to the diesel's TQ characteristics to go wherever i want in traffic.

while i keep the Porsche for blowing doors off, the Jetta is a wonderful brown paper bag sort of car!
I really like the Sportwagen TDI. Every one I've seen at the local dealerships has had a "sold" ticket on the dash.

[rugbysecondrow]

To second (or third, or fourth etc...) the Honda Fit. My buddy has one that he exclusivly uses for hauling his bike around with ample room for gear, cooler of beer etc.

[Pete Serotta]

Ken have you tried a Civic Si (probably still too long though.) I have a friend that puts his bike in a mini with both wheels off. He does not have a rack or fenders on his bike. It is a VERY tight though.

[RPS]

That photo was taken the first time we put the tandem inside, when we did indeed remove the captain's seatpost. However, we have refined our loading technique since then and no longer remove anything except the front wheel.

-- John
That's really great use of space John; and nice to know too.

I like the Fit and may get one some day when my CR-V finally stops running. As I said above, I wish I could load my smaller tandem inside in a similar way for short trips but the front and rear seats don't fold down at same time. I end up placing it on a roof rack which is OK too; unless we drive our large van in which case it goes inside with plenty of room to spare.

[jtferraro]

I really like the Sportwagen TDI. Every one I've seen at the local dealerships has had a "sold" ticket on the dash.

I like them too. Thinking of this as my next car...in a few years.

[torquer]

I really like the Sportwagen TDI. Every one I've seen at the local dealerships has had a "sold" ticket on the dash.
I was surprised to read recently that something like 80% of the Jetta wagons VW was bringing in were TDIs, until I realized that ALL of the new-model wagons I've seen were diesels.
Most industry commentators say us 'mericans just won't buy diesels, and the manufacturers don't offer any. Maybe VW buyers are different. It will be interesting to see if anyone else notices.

[Ken Robb]

That's awesome, Ken. Supercharged or turbo? Run-flat tires?
All "S" models from 2007 model year are turbo-ed and have direct fuel injection which allows a high compression ratio due to the spritz of fuel into the combustion chamber cools the charge and prevents detonation. I used to dislike turbo engines due to lagging throttle response, lack of mid-range power and lousy fuel economy. These new designs like the BMW 335i and others pull strongly from 2,000 rpm with no lag and still don't have to compromise economy
to prevent detonation as they did when the fuel was squirted into the intake port.

Run-flat Dunlops. They wear well and work ok on the street but get pretty "greasy" on the track. I may try regular high performance tires next though that would mean I'd want to carry a can of sealant and a mini-pump for trips.

When I was checking my options I was surprised to find that the Mini has a much smaller footprint than Boxsters and 911 Porsches. I could fit a GTI behind all the bikes and the Ducati but it would be a bit tighter than I want for getting to my work bench and gear storage between the car and the wall.

[dd74]

I was surprised to read recently that something like 80% of the Jetta wagons VW was bringing in were TDIs, until I realized that ALL of the new-model wagons I've seen were diesels.
Most industry commentators say us 'mericans just won't buy diesels, and the manufacturers don't offer any. Maybe VW buyers are different. It will be interesting to see if anyone else notices.
Can't find any in L.A. They seem to be bought before they reach the dealership.

The same goes for the BMW 335 diesel, except those are scary fast cars - almost as fast as M3s - and I'm sure that's one reason people are buying them aside from the fuel economy.

[goonster]

Most industry commentators say us 'mericans just won't buy diesels,
They don't. Why don't you have one?

Wagon allocations were small, but there are still plenty of sedans available.