Framebuilding's best 1-2 punch?

[Climb01742]

from a single builder, what do you think the best two frame combination is -- two frames of different materials? think of koufax and drysdale. mickey and roger. michael and scottie. (sorry, i can't bring myself to say shaq and kobe.) sports is famous for 1-2 punches. so what builder is a genius in two materials?

here are my votes, based on what i've ridden:

1. pegoretti marcelo (steel) and CCKMP (alu)

2. merckx team sc (alu) and mx leader (steel)

3. serotta CSi and... (someday i'll find a stable mate i love from ben.)

what are yours?

[Sandy]

1. CSi and Ottrott

2. CSi and Legend Ti

Either pair is remarkably hard to beat.


Sandy

[shinomaster]

1 fuji cross ha ha
2 fuji apples

[Dekonick]

Serotta - Hors Categorie and CSI
dunno about that carbon stuff - havent tried any lately as my last experiences were not good...

[amg]

Pegoretti Marcelo and Fina Estampa

Richard Sachs road and cross

Spectrum road and track

Nuff said! :beer:

Antonio

[Climb01742]

antonio, have you ever ridden a CCKMP? i like it better than my fina, but that's just my personal take...your results may vary. :beer:

[Bill Bove]

Although they are not a boutique builder like Serotta with their CSI/Legand/Otrott, I like Orbea's carbon Orca or Onix frames and their great Columbus aluminum frames. Airplane, Lobular or Altec, all top notch and relatively affordable.

[amg]

Climbissimo,

No, I've never ridden a CCKMP, I'm over the weight limit for that frame, but I have no doubt that it's a great frame. There's a stock 56cm CCKMP at gvhbikes.com for peanuts, so if anybody is interested, it's worth taking a look.

Antonio :beer:

[gasman]

Schwinn Varsity/Schwinn Continential ;)
age12 / age 16

[Redturbo]

AMG,
I did a cross race this weekend on my eRichiesachsissmo and you would of thought I had walked up with Julia Roberts on my arm.

turbo

[amg]

Red Turbo,

I was at the Highland Park CX race this Sunday, so if you were there, I probably saw you! I did see e-ritchie-issimo mix it up in the Masters race and show them how it's done! Cross is awesome!

Antonio :beer:

[IXXI]

A second for Pegoretti: Fina Estampa + Marcelo

I'd put Sacha and Vanilla right up there: lugged + brazed.

And of course, we wouldn't be having this discussion without Ben: Legend ti + anything steel.

[William]

Schwinn Varsity/Schwinn Continential

Loved the Schwinn Lime green color! :cool:

I had the Varsity as well....until it got stolen. :butt:


William :)

[William]

I like Orbea's carbon Orca or Onix frames and their great Columbus aluminum frames. Airplane, Lobular or Altec, all top notch and relatively affordable.

Bill, have you heard of a rash of broken frames from Orbea? It's probably BS, but I seem to recall reading a comment somewhere to that effect.


William

PS: Sorry for hi-jacking the thread climb.

[dbrk]

Rivendell Custom (Goodrich-built)/Saluki 650B
Mariposa Racer/Mariposa Audax/Mariposa 650B
Pegoretti BLE/Pegoretti Luigino

Hmmm....steel with and with lugs, maybe that's cheating, so the last one there is steel without lugs and steel with lugs. That's a multimaterial as I see it!

Hampsten SBTi/Hampsten Z1/Hampsten Giro '88 is my trifecta in playing honest with the question.

CSi and Ottrott ST are obvious, right? I just cannot wrap my head around the Ottrott's price 'cause I'd rather have two for that one of a whole'lotta' bikes...

dbrk

[Bill Bove]

No, I haven't heard about it. I have sold a few of the aluminums but more of the carbons. Orbea does sell their lightweight Columbus Airplane and Starship frames with a full lifetime warranty, these are lightweight frames designed for light riders to use as a race bike. Not for a 180 pounder to train on. Maybe that could have something to do with it. If it is true. There is always going to be some that fail anyway but I have not had any come back, and they're being ridden pretty hard. I sell them with confidence.

Doug, I also like the Hampsten Z-1 and Ti model but they are built by two different builders, Parlee and Moots. So does it fit Climb's model? Two materiels from the same builder? But that also nullifies my choice as well seeing how the Orca and Onix are built in Taiwan in a "giant" or at least a very large factory, not by Orbea in Spain. Incedently, Orbea is a worker owned collective, there's another word for that, is that why they are breaking? Because communism failed too :p

[PaulE]

One of my good friends bought a used Schwinn Varsity when we got into 10 speed bikes in the early 70's. He paid the grand sum of $15 or $25 for it. It was a very faded red, almost pink. It had the "Schwinn Approved" Huret derailleurs, and a "Schwinn Approved" genuine leather saddle that looked for all the world like a Brooks saddle. That was the only Schwinn Varsity I ever saw in my life that had that leather saddle, instead of the rubber/plastic/vinyl whatever that every other varsity had. Thanks for bringing back the memories!

[dbrk]

Doug, I also like the Hampsten Z-1 and Ti model but they are built by two different builders, Parlee and Moots. So does it fit Climb's model? Two materiels from the same builder? But that also nullifies my choice as well seeing how the Orca and Onix are built in Taiwan in a "giant" or at least a very large factory, not by Orbea in Spain. Incedently, Orbea is a worker owned collective, there's another word for that, is that why they are breaking? Because communism failed too :p

Nailed. I hear that everything not made by Giant is actually made by Giant. What a world. I feel safe. I know who is Vice-President and he is making it so. It's a wonderful, wonderful world...

Now, if I had known that Orbeas were made by _real_ communists in Spain, well, I'da' bought two! But now that I know they are made by Our Friends the real capitalists in Taiwan, The Republic of China, I suppose I'll rejoice in the joys of the free market with salvific certainty that my place in heaven is assured when I am run over by that Made in America "Like a Rock" truck, riding with confidence on my "Spanish"...err...."American"...err...giant bicycle! I heard that Serottas are actually made in Taiwan by...you guessed it!! Giant. Or is that just the Ottrott ST?

Non-sequitor: I spent the weekend in Scottsdale/Phoenix doing a yoga blah-blah seminar. More Hummers per driveway than any place I have hitherto enjoyed. Among SUV drivers with plenty of those after-life stickers on their bumpers, Hummer drivers seem to put their wheels where their faith is: yes, they drive like their is an afterlife. [ed.note, thanks to O'Grady for that one.] Faith is a wonderful thing!

sardonic, not serious, okay? [you'd da'bombBill, this was of course not directed yer way as anything but...or as Richard Pryor put it, "I didn't do it!" when his wife _caught_ him in bed with another woman],

dbrk

[Climb01742]

not that it really matters, but part of what i thought was intersting about the challenge is one builder being able to work magic in two different materials and get the best out of each. so lugged and non-lugged steel is, well, sorta cheating. ;) as single punches, a sachs steel or hampsten/parlee Z1 are hard to beat. but working wonders with two different materials is not necessarily a greater challenge, but just a different one. surprised senor jerk hasn't chimed in with a vote for ernesto...a C50 and what????

and maybe hardest of all...the same builder actually HIMSELF, as opposed to his company, building two great frames...which i think ben himself could still do...dario does...eddy doesn't...who else?

[dbrk]

Carl Strong comes to mind, meeting Climb's criterion of mixin' it up...
Dario, Anvil, Davidson?, you mean torch to bike, right? Do "companies" count? Like IF, Seven, or Co-Motion? It may not be the same fella' welding and brazing. This makes clear that Climb's idea is likely pretty rare.

steel and steel, if I had to have only two bikes of different materials,

dbrk

[Sandy]

What comes next? Building, by one individual, two frames simultaneously, left hand for one and right hand for the other, with different materials, different methods of joining the tubes, painting each with different paint and design schemes, delivered to the home of the purchaser,...., all done while blindfolded and finishing within 2 hours?


I think that I can do that.

One hour and 52 minutes have elapsed. No time to talk. I have a bike to deliver in New York and one to deliver in Paris, and I only have 8 minutes to go. Where is my Supersonic Speedy Serotta Sandy Spaceship???

Seeing Stars,


Serotta Sandy