I don't understand the hate

[Keith A]

On my commute to work this morning, I was stopped a four way intersection waiting for the light to turn green. The road I was riding on is a four lane road with a center turn lane that has a steady flow of traffic during the morning drive. When I pulled up to the light, there was NO one behind me.

While I'm sitting there (out of the way of all cars) a 50+ man who appeared to be economically challenged, driving an older rundown pickup truck pulls up beside me and rolls by slowly as he is making a right hand turn. His passenger window is down and he says in a very mean/angry tone "I hope you f#$%*!@ fall". I looked over at him with what must have been a shocked expression on my face and then he said "You know, on your bike".

He continued to roll slowly and turn right and I couldn't think of any response. It is impossible that I was impeding him in any way and he was certainly not behind me at any point as I just turned onto this road and I know no one was behind me when I did.

I just don't understand how this person could have so much hatred towards someone they don't know, nor have ever seen before. He didn't just say "get off the road", he wanted me hurt or injured.

So what would prevent this guy to taking it to the next level and running over the next cyclist he sees? I'm certainly glad I didn't respond with any rude or negative remark as I'm sure this would have just made things worse.

:confused:

[Chris]

He doesn't just hate you and other cyclists, he hates other people, and probably, his life. I work at a hospital and I see a ton of people from all walks of life come through. I teach the nurses what I call the 90% rule. 90% of people (even drivers) respond to you in a similar fashion. That response is a pretty good estimate of who you come off as being to others. If 90% of the people out there think you are an a$$hole or hope that you fall when you ride your bike, then you probably are an a$$hole or you ride your bike in a very obnoxious way... The reaction that the other 10% (like this guy in the car) have in response to you, is more about them than it is about you. Just smile and wave.

[Blue Jays]

You encountered a random nutty crackpot.
Don't sweat it, he's just a pathetic little man.

[Kirk Pacenti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uze76_Et-2I

[Climb01742]

99% of the time, road rage is life rage that just gets played out on the road.

[RPS]

Serious economic disadvantage can make some otherwise-normal people feel a sense of despair that those who haven’t experience can’t relate to. People can tell you all about it, but it’s not the same as being in their shoes IMHO. For instance, do you know how long it had been since he had a good meal? Or whether he had been in pain for a week because of a bad toothache but couldn’t afford a dentist? I know there are free clinics, but maybe he’s too proud.

Prolonged anguish can lead to depression and anger towards the world at large. When they see some guy riding on a bike that may be worth more than their car, or their entire net worth, it may make them lash out in hate – not at you personally but at the injustice they perceive.

[Z3c]

I pretty much agree with Chris above.. I briefly worked as an Ast. Mgr at a Wal-Mart and a lot of the workers would struggle with how they were treated by customers. I used to suggest that they look at it as if the customers were being rude to their name tags, not to them personally.. Sounds simplistic, but it worked for a lot people.
None the less, it is hard to ignore something that seems personal. But it really isn't personal because the person doesn't know you from Adam.. I think some folks have pretty rough lives and they are envious of someone who gets out and rides a bike. Probably at some point in the last month, that guy was held up for 5 seconds by a cyclist; he vented on you.
IMHO, situations like this are why we cyclists need to remember the overall scene when we ride; the person we make angry today may not forget about it. They may not express their anger when there are 10 riders but will the next time they see a lone cyclist. We need to remember that; I think we all ride solo at some points...

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ RPS, that wouldn't provide an excuse, especially if he later strikes someone with his rusty truck.

[johnnymossville]

How many cars have passed you on the road over the last whatever years and what percentage has done anything like this? I know it sucks, but the numbers of people like this is really small. Thankfully.

I don't buy all that poor guy anger stuff either. Angry people are all over the place throughout the economic spectrum. if poor people are angry, then 95% of the world's population would be slugging it out right now.

[Idris Icabod]

I had a similar situation a few weeks ago. Riding home past a building site a worker shouts "f***ing qu**r". I let it go, just ride on but the day after the guy is actually waiting for me on the side of the road and launches into the most vitriolic hateful expletives. I didn't say much, what can you really say.

Unluckily for him, the building site that he was working on is my companies new building and a few words the next day to the management here has the guy identified within about 15 minutes and questioned. He admitted everything and also added a few comments that I hadn't heard, not the smartest guy in the world. His only reason was that "he hates f***ing cyclists".

Initially I felt bad that the guy had lost his job, but now I believe he really deserved to. It is our companies name plastered all over the building site and although this guy was a contractor, it reflects on us as a company and we all know that pharmaceutical companies can not afford to have any more reasons for the public to dislike us!

[paczki]

They feel like you can't do anything about it because you are weak and they are strong, and so they vent. These are the same people who abuse children, etc. I think they deserve very little or no compassion. There's a difference between blowing up when someone cuts you off and picking out someone you perceive as weak, and abusing that person.

[RPS]

/\/\ RPS, that wouldn't provide an excuse, especially if he later strikes someone with his rusty truck.Correct. Keith didn't ask for an excuse, and I didn't provide one (at least not intentionally).

An excuse and an explanation of how I see things happening are two different issues. It's about understanding, not assigning blame. ;)

[cmg]

"Just smile and wave." this will make him explode.

[torquer]

I had a similar situation a few weeks ago.
...
His only reason was that "he hates f***ing cyclists".
...
It is our companies name plastered all over the building site and although this guy was a contractor, it reflects on us as a company and we all know that pharmaceutical companies can not afford to have any more reasons for the public to dislike us!

Maybe you could hook the guy up with some SSRIs.

[johnnymossville]

"Just smile and wave." this will make him explode.


Yeah, they LOVE that!

[bzbvh5]

I got one of those "Get off the F***ing road you GD MF" rants a while back. Since it was a busy intersection with pleanty of witnesses, I just smiled and waved, may have even said hello. It was a green dodge pickup with handicap license plates. He drove off even more angry and I saw where he turned off the road to a bank building parking lot. It was near my house. The next day a green dodge pickup with handicap license plates had a note on the windshield.

"I'm the cyclist you yelled at yesterday. I pay taxes and deserve to be on the road as much as you do. Hopefully angry is a handicap you can overcome. Have a nice life."

[girlie]

"You know, on your bike."
Opposed to walking or sitting.
That's kinda funny.
Makes me laugh because I have to wonder what is going through his head at that point. Like he was second guessing himself....or had some moment of self reflection....reflecting on accurately communicating his meanness.

Sorry you had that interaction...they never feel very good:(

Best,
girlie

[Keith A]

How many cars have passed you on the road over the last whatever years and what percentage has done anything like this? I know it sucks, but the numbers of people like this is really small. Thankfully.You are right, that as a percentage of the number of cars that drive by me, the number of drivers that say or do something negative is small. But it doesn't take but ONE of them to kill or hurt me or another cyclist.

Earlier this year in Brevard County, a lawn man driving a pickup and pulling a trailer with his equipment in it ran over a local cyclist. The driver didn't stop and left the rider unconscious on the road.

Over the years that I have been riding (which is more than 25 years now), I have had drivers do the following:
● Passenger hit me in the middle of my back with his closed fist which completely knocked the breath out me and left a large bruise on my back.
● Had a full soda can thrown at me, luckily he missed.
● Had at least two drivers slow down and force me off the road.
● Multiple drivers swerve very close to my front wheel after passing me -- including one just a couple weeks ago that is a neighbor that lives just a few streets from my house.
● Large SUV clipped my arm with their passenger mirror and then flipped me off as the drove past.
● One driver coming towards us actually crossed over the street and acted like they were going to hit us head on.

This does not include all the negative and rude comments spoken or yelled out at me over the years.

So yes, these do represent a small percentage of drivers, but there is certainly a significant number of drivers that do hate cyclists and some of those will do something about their feelings towards us.

[jimcav]

a few weeks ago on my morning commute, on a remote, seldom trafficed road with NO traffic either direction, I was riding about 4 feet left of the edge, in order to avoid potholes. a guy then comes from behind in his big panel truck, and cuts over as he passes, i actually felt the hair on my arms touch the side of the truck. I moved sharply--and just in time as he was pulling a trailer which would have clipped me.
I screamed at him, called him a MF and chased him--he rolled through the next 2 stop signs and got away from me.
probably good, as i was mad enough to not think through my actions. but that guy intentionally tried to do me harm.
not just a "Terrance and Philip" "I hope you get cancer" statement, but an action. (apologies for referencing a cartoon within the cartoon south park)

i try to wave to all who give me room. i give the peace sign to the idiots. and the finger to those that could kill me if i was not riding defensively

jim

[Keith A]

Looks like this is the second time I brought up this subject on the Serotta forum. Here's a link to some memorable communcation from drivers (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=758).

BTW, I too take the smile and wave approach which produces interesting results. It does make some drivers more angry, but it can go the other way too. I can remember a recent event when an older driver yelled at me and I waved back. When he saw that I was waving at him, he sheepishly returned the wave.

But my all time favorite response from waving and smiling was the following (which I'm copying from when I posted this before)....

"One of the routes that I occasionally ride takes me past a local high school -- and back when this encounter occurred, the high schools started early between 7:00am to 7:30am. A group of three of us was traveling towards the high school and a school bus passed by us. One of the young men in the back row displayed his middle finger at us in a nonchalant way. I was on the front and gave him a big wave and smiled at him.

Apparently the teen assumed that I thought he was waving at us. So he stood up and shook his middle finger at us with all his might as to make sure we knew what he was doing. I just smiled and waved back again. By that point, the bus was far enough ahead of us that I couldn't see his reaction."

[gemship]

all this hate people feel for whatever reason, such a powerful energy. If only they could get over that wall of fear,desperation,uselessness. They could be more like us. Grab a bike and make two for the road. Nothing like riding your worries or bad vibes away, unfortunately most in America are slow to catch on.

[Viper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4K6Htmw1xE

Note: If your head doesn't nod and you don't dance in your chair a little to this song then there is something wrong w/you atmo.

Keith A, when the world gets tough on you, give em' some Brooklyn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pRB9oQbXH4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6QED8LoSfs

Teach a man how to be father
To never tell a woman he can't bother
You can't say you don't know what I'm talkin' 'bout
But one day...brothers gonna work it out


:beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

They feel like you can't do anything about it because you are weak and they are strong, and so they vent. . . .

There are angry people all over, angry about many things, and they are looking for a way to express that anger without consequences to them because in our society there is simply no accepted outlet for anger. People are angry all the time, but it's not OK to be angry in today's society. It's not OK to even be grouchy. We're all supposed to be politically correct "have a nice day" happy all the time.

But these folks who veer at us or swear or throw things have never figured out an acceptable way to work out the anger that all of us feel at one time or another. It's the same reason you or I may be angry about something and take it out on the pedals out on a ride--at least that's what I do. No matter what I'm angry or frustrated about, a good hard bike ride gets it out of my system.

So they seize onto what they feel is a convenient target--someone they can take their anger out on without consequences. We are an easy one because they're in their car, they feel so much bigger and more powerful than us, and it's easy for them to feel superior to that "F*&%g Qu$&r in the tights" or whatever insult they want to attach to us. They can take out their anger on us and drive away and nobody saw them--not their boss or their spouse or their kids or friends. It's the same reason you see people abusing sales clerks, customer service people, or the poor PFK behind the counter at the fast food joint.

Pretty pitiful . . .

BBD

[39cross]

There must be a study about this, this is such a common phenomenon - anyone who's ridden a bike has experienced it. If not, then there's a PhD dissertation waiting for a psych doctoral student out there.

[Dekonick]

That would make one interesting thesis...

I used to advocate hitting the car that almost hits you. Not anymore.

I just ignore it, and think how great it feels to be out riding, while they are cramped in a steel and plastic box. As long as they don't harm me, holler away!

When they throw shiit, veer at you, etc... that is a PHYSICAL THREAT. It seems the best action may be to avoid confrontation if you can, and if you can't get a plate #, and or picture. Perhaps there could be a new website that has pictures of known car/truck's that are dangerous to cyclists - kinda like the guy who takes video's of John's on youtube.

Angry people need to exercise!

[William]

When they throw shiit, veer at you, etc... that is a PHYSICAL THREAT. It seems the best action may be to avoid confrontation if you can, and if you can't get a plate #, and or picture. Perhaps there could be a new website that has pictures of known car/truck's that are dangerous to cyclists - kinda like the guy who takes video's of John's on youtube.

Angry people need to exercise!



I'm the first person the practice the "Smile and wave" when some idiot shouts something at me. As you stated, it's a different story when they escalate the violence by throwing objects, attempt to strike you with fists or improvised weapons, or aim their 2-3,000 pound metal projectile at you.

Keith,
I'm glad that you came through it with out any difficulties. Some people just suck.


William

[Ray]

Some people just suck.

WilliamAs usual, William wins the award for telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, with the fewest possible words.

Then again, I don't think it's quite that simple, as I usually don't, being a fuzzy headed liberal and all. I'd go back to paraphrasing a great American saying, 'All people suck some of the time. Some people suck all of the time. But all people don't suck all of the time'. Or, you know, words to that effect.

I've been guilty of hatred and anger in my lifetime. I suspect most of us have been. And in my youth, it was more randomly dispersed than I could ever rationally defend. Now, it tends to be more targeted. :cool:

-Ray

[Ti Designs]

99% of the time, road rage is life rage that just gets played out on the road.

Yeh, I lack the rage part, but the rest fits...

[Tobias]

Some people suck all of the time.Whether a full time or part time job, no one sucks by choice -- and are also unlikely to change.

I take the sticks and stones approach. Words I ignore, a physical threat is quite different.

[Keith A]

A google search of "hate cyclist" without the quotes brings up 3,410,000 hits.

[mike p]

[QUOTE=RPS]Serious economic disadvantage can make some otherwise-normal people feel a sense of despair that those who haven’t experience can’t relate to.


Like this-- "If he was buying a plane he gets no sympathy from me."


Mike

[RPS]

[QUOTE=RPS]Serious economic disadvantage can make some otherwise-normal people feel a sense of despair that those who haven’t experience can’t relate to.


Like this-- "If he was buying a plane he gets no sympathy from me."


Mike :confused: Mike, I'm not sure what you mean, but to be clear: I don't excuse inappropriate behavior. The question was about "understanding" hate; which is much like asking "do you understand racism". The answer is yes, I understand it and know why it happens; which is not he same as saying that I approve of it, like it, or accept it.

[palincss]

99% of the time, road rage is life rage that just gets played out on the road.

Agreed -- and for most people, there's a huge difference between talk, such as happened in this incident, and action.

[Viper]

I take the sticks and stones approach. Words I ignore, a physical threat is quite different.

To me a stick is the same as a stone; words start wars and words also end them. While it's easier to look the other way from a verbal insult, stare at the ground, it's also noble to look a man straight in the eye and announce, "A man's got to know his limitations." Harry Callahan, the Irish detective felt as much.

In 1998, I bought my new LeMond. I was riding down Waterside Drive, a five mile road that ends at the beach. I heard the music first, then the rumble of their engine, a shouting voice in my left ear, a flash of movement across my face and I braced for impact. Next was the loud noise of a beer bottle crashing into the woods on my right. I looked up, a Jeep CJ7, late 80's, top off, had four high school kids and one of them tried to hit me with a beer bottle. Four strangers. Three of them looking back at me to see if had fallen over, shouting etc. I saw red.

Out of shape, I sprinted the five miles to the beach. I knew where they were going. Since the speed limit is 30mph, I felt that'd beat me to the beach by just a few minutes, big ring, small cog, stand up and hustle.

I remember pulling into the massive parking lot and thinking I was so blown out by the sprint, I was huffing and puffing, how could I even speak to these dirtbags? I slowly rode over to where they were, their Jeep parked near the basketball court. They had music blaring, the driver was in the front seat rolling a joint, the other three dudes were shooting hoops.

I used Speedplays back then and rode a MTB shoe, my feet had plenty of traction I thought before I got off the bike. I reached into the car from the passenger side, turned off the radio. Party's over.

The really tall one came over with his mouth going. I took my helmet off. "Go ahead, I'm off the bike now. Standing here. About ten years older than all of you. You're seniors cutting out today, drinking, smoking weed, fine, but when you throw a bottle at me, you're finished."

Tall kid got angrier. From three feet away he threw the basketball at my face, I ducked and in the same motion, he swung at me. Knowing he was using the basketball to strike me before he could attempt to hit me, I ducked even deeper from his overhand right. It's always the right hand, only a boxer knows the jab is the way to go, everyone else is just a street fighter. Coming up from my crouched position, I debated grabbing his long hair, neck and tossing him over my left shoulder. Pavement, bad idea, we'll need an ambulance. I remembered before he threw the ball how he had his nipples pierced so I grabbed his nipple ring and yanked it from his body. He fell down on all fours and grabbed his bleeding nipple. Wimps see their own red blood and turn a darker shade of yellow. He looked up at me with this look how could Richie Cunningham yank my nipple ring and with an open hand, I smacked him so loudly it hurt my hand. He fell to the ground. He had really long hair so I simply stood on it with one foot.

The other three kids came over and I told them, "Wimps, all of you. Who's next? Your leader is on the ground crying. If all three of you come near me at once, that's not fair and I promise I won't fight fairly. You'll spend the summer in a bodycast. Clear?" I tossed the nipple ring to the kid on the ground who was in shock, turned around, clipped back in and rode home.

"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice, tell me I ought to do" said Edmund Burke.

Is it, "All that is necessary for the triumph over evil is for enough good men to do nothing" or, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for enough good men to do nothing."

I believe the latter is more poignant.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle" said Edmund Burke, the Irish philosopher and politician.

Sometimes hate doesn't need to be understood, it simply needs to be confronted and possibly, defeated.

[Chris]

I liked William's story about cutting off the valve better...

[Dekonick]

Steal the PEACH

[William]

Steal the PEACH

I can them and save them for later use...

http://www.members.cox.net/smbump/OU/WhupAss.jpg



William ;)

[toaster]

Keith A., don't take it personally. It's OK that people don't like you or cyclists in general.

You can't change that.

But we do like the stories about road rage, in case we don't have our own.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I can them and save them for later use...

http://www.members.cox.net/smbump/OU/WhupAss.jpg

William ;)

I notice that can has been opened . . . recent use? Perhaps on beungood? ;) :D

BBD

[Fixed]

it is christmas forgive him imho
cheers

[Steelhead]

I had a similar situation a few weeks ago. Riding home past a building site a worker shouts "f***ing qu**r". I let it go, just ride on but the day after the guy is actually waiting for me on the side of the road and launches into the most vitriolic hateful expletives. I didn't say much, what can you really say.

Unluckily for him, the building site that he was working on is my companies new building and a few words the next day to the management here has the guy identified within about 15 minutes and questioned. He admitted everything and also added a few comments that I hadn't heard, not the smartest guy in the world. His only reason was that "he hates f***ing cyclists".

Initially I felt bad that the guy had lost his job, but now I believe he really deserved to. It is our companies name plastered all over the building site and although this guy was a contractor, it reflects on us as a company and we all know that pharmaceutical companies can not afford to have any more reasons for the public to dislike us!

Pepper Spray.

[Keith A]

Pepper Spray.You mean something like this?

http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/7/4/Cop_Tech_Pepper_Spray_Machine_Gun.jpg

"This little beauty is a machine gun capable of spitting out 700 rounds of pepper-spray filled pellets a minute, creating a cloud of the stuff up to 200 feet away. It’s been designed to manage unruly crowds in a non-lethal way, and I imagine it’d be pretty effective."

[palincss]

You mean something like this?

http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/7/4/Cop_Tech_Pepper_Spray_Machine_Gun.jpg

"This little beauty is a machine gun capable of spitting out 700 rounds of pepper-spray filled pellets a minute, creating a cloud of the stuff up to 200 feet away. It’s been designed to manage unruly crowds in a non-lethal way, and I imagine it’d be pretty effective."

Elsewhere in this forum, somebody's worried about the weight difference between steel and Aramid-bead tires... Besides, where are you going to put this when you're riding? I'm confident this won't fit into any jersey pocket I've ever seen. In fact, I doubt if it would fit into the large size Berthoud handlebar bag!

[gdw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i6OrOZwtmA&feature=related

[Keith A]

I wanted to thank those who replied to my post, sometimes it helps to just talk about it.

:)

[bhungerford]

seriously, i've gotten to the point with all the cyclist hatred that i now carry my cell phone in my right jersey pocket, and if they do an intentionaly brush by, or try and run me off the road, i'll just call a hit and run.

i've been hit by 5 cars, all idiots that literally ran me off the road, went to pass, and then when next to me just eased on over until they hit me. luckily never seriously hurt.

i practice memorizing plates with every car that passes me, only need about 30 seconds to call that plate in.

but, i do think the angry drivers do it because of some bad experience with cyclists in their past, so i always stop at signs/lights, get over when i can, but take up a lane if its not safe for them to pass, signal my intentions, don't ride up through cars at a red light (even if turning right, cause they won't see me coming up next to them), always wave a thank you to the nice drivers, and if i get the chance at the next light or whatever, i'll actually make the point of saying thank you to them for giving me adequete room, or waiting at their cross street to let me go by before pulling out on the same street, whatever. karma, be nice and they'll be nice to some other cyclist, be a jerk, and they'll be a jerk, but a jerk with a couple thousand pound killing maching.

i guess my point is, be nice out there, and go through the law when you have to.

[Dekonick]

Good advice, but hard to call in a plate# when in oxygen debt... I am bound to get a few numbers wrong...

[beungood]

I notice that can has been opened . . . recent use? Perhaps on beungood? ;) :D

BBD

The big Guy has no need for that can I assure you. But I have to add, after having a second On Duty Motor vehicle accident a couple of weeks ago where I was broadsided going through an intersection not a month after my Motorcycle crash at work, an ant could put a wupping on me right now. I wish I could be riding and getting some anger thrown my way. I have to do 4 weeks of PT before going back to work.. Can't beleive how long this healing takes... sigh..

[beungood]

This bike rage/road rage is becoming all too common now-adays. Having been on dayshift patrol now for 8 years we seem to always be getting radio calls for these haters. I say by all means call it in. I have been the victime of a few incidents myself and have caught up to one motorist at a light. I do like the idea of confronting these people but You gotta be safe and there is no telling who your confronting and how far they will go in exacting revenge on you... Any objects being throw turn it into a serious crime in which they can be subject to arrest ,even here in Mass.

[William]

The big Guy has no need for that can I assure you. But I have to add, after having a second On Duty Motor vehicle accident a couple of weeks ago where I was broadsided going through an intersection not a month after my Motorcycle crash at work, an ant could put a wupping on me right now. I wish I could be riding and getting some anger thrown my way. I have to do 4 weeks of PT before going back to work.. Can't beleive how long this healing takes... sigh..


Dude, you just can't catch a break! :crap: Heal up and get back to it big guy!!




William

[beungood]

Thanks Bro! I'm still waiting for work to authorise the PT. Pain in the A$$..

[goblue]

Sometimes you just have to do what you got to do.