Mace for Protection

[bzbvh5]

I was thinking of getting a hand gun for protection while riding my bike on remote roads. I can think at least one down side including Plaxico Burrussing myself in the a$$. I was talking to a friend and he suggested mace. I've heard stories that the mace available to the general public is not effective in stopping attackers. I've been looking on the internet and found a mace product I might want to purchase. Does anyone have any experience with the pictured product or would you give any good mace advice in general?

[Pete Serotta]

I would not recommend a gun or mace..... If you are uneasy riding certain roads, I would suggest staying of them.

Both a gun or mace can create problems that are best left "uncreated" PETE

[Michael Maddox]

Against a dog, maybe. Otherwise, mace tends to exacerbate already-dangerous encounters.

Against a person, nothing makes a better deterrent than a handgun. And that's really the point, to keep yourself and others out of harm's way. Plus, becoming a legal concealed weapons carrier tends to force you to become educated on what is appropriate (and thus safe) behaviour and what is not (e.g., Answer this one: "You were on a bike, so why didn't you ride away?"). If you're disposed to doing so, I recommend a legally obtained and carried handgun. If not, there's nothing I really recommend other than "keep safe."

Pete's response is very appropriate.

[Ken Robb]

I think some states require a permit to carry some or all types of mace-like products.

[rcnute]

Where are you riding? Compton?

[Satellite]

I was recently riding in California's wine country where I was chased by a dog; mean ugly looking rot type. I used the water bottle trick worked like a charm. I don't think water would work to well on a person but might distract long enough for a quick get away. Mace is just as harmful to you if you inhale some from a back breeze.

[spiderman]

who thought i was a fool for not having mace
mounted on the bar like he did.
he was attacked by a dog
...pretty nasty scar...
1 block from his house
and wished he had been packing it
and has ever since.
i can't bring myself to do the same.
i think i'd be more likely to spray myself
than successfully ward of an attack dog...

[Ginger]

My homies do best with a bigger caliber...most of 'em can't manage ride-bys with the pea shooters. That said, in Texas a sawed off shotgun is probably your best bet.

then again...I hear personal tasers are legal in Texas. They come in dainty pink for the housewife.


(Best deterrent I've had to ward off attacks is a cell phone with gps location...just pull it out of your saddle bag while you're riding along and flip it open and start talking to the cops...no...really...it works...get yourself a satellite phone if you have crappy reception coverage, it won't cost much more than a gun and training.)

[A.L.Breguet]

Pedal faster? :rolleyes:

[shiftyfixedgear]

Why not try it on yourself first and see how effective it is ?

[bzbvh5]

Against a dog, maybe. Otherwise, mace tends to exacerbate already-dangerous encounters.

Against a person, nothing makes a better deterrent than a handgun. And that's really the point, to keep yourself and others out of harm's way. Plus, becoming a legal concealed weapons carrier tends to force you to become educated on what is appropriate (and thus safe) behaviour and what is not (e.g., Answer this one: "You were on a bike, so why didn't you ride away?"). If you're disposed to doing so, I recommend a legally obtained and carried handgun. If not, there's nothing I really recommend other than "keep safe."

Pete's response is very appropriate.

I'm looking to protect myself from the guy in the pickup truck that wants to kick the sit out of me because he owns the road and bikes don't belong. I can't out run his truck on my bike, maybe you can. If I feel threatened enough to pull out a gun, deterrent nothing, I'm going to keep pulling the trigger till no more rounds can be fired. I'm not interested in playing you better back off or I'll shoot. And Pete, I do try to ride in safe places. In fact, I'm the one who waves at people when they give me the finger or cut me off at the corner, just as long as they don't hit me with there car, I'm good.

[rwsaunders]

50 encounters/shots out this Taser....plus it comes in four designer colors to match your bar tape. All you need is a background check and a wall charger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK2OsttO614

http://www.guardian-self-defense.com/peppersprays.htm

[Blue Jays]

"...Against a person, nothing makes a better deterrent than a handgun. And that's really the point, to keep yourself and others out of harm's way. Plus, becoming a legal concealed weapons carrier tends to force you to become educated on what is appropriate (and thus safe) behaviour and what is not (e.g., Answer this one: "You were on a bike, so why didn't you ride away?").
If you're disposed to doing so, I recommend a legally obtained and carried handgun..."Excellent and well-considered response. Different geographies clearly require different approaches to personal safety.

[William]

A page I've included on my website...

http://www.mongrelcombativearts.com/43.html

10 Commandments of Concealed Carry

Written by Massad Ayoob.

Carrying a gun is a serious commitment. Ten real-world factors to make it a part of your life!




William

[Mikej]

Dont do it, trust me. Pete is right, just stay off those roads. As a firearm owner and a well trained Marine, I would highly recomend against it.

[Blue Jays]

"...I was thinking of getting a handgun for protection while riding my bike on remote roads...""...Dont do it, trust me. Pete is right, just stay off those roads..."

It appears forumite bzbvh5 simply wishes to pedal his bicycle on low-traffic country lanes where one might encounter a yahoo.
Why would anyone recommend against that choice of prime riding terrain, whether armed or not?

[konstantkarma]

I carry a big can of pepper spray in my right jersey pocket. It can apparently shoot a stream, not a spray, up to 18 ft. I have never had to use it, and I hope I never have to, but sometimes it is nice to know it is there.

I bought it from this place Pepper Spray Store (http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/).

[crossjunkee]

Who in their right mind would carry a gun while cycling? Seriously, get a grip!

[konstantkarma]

Who in their right mind would carry a gun while cycling? Seriously, get a grip!

Pun intended? :)

[dauwhe]

What's the actual risk? Have there been incidents in the past? Have riders been assaulted in the area?

Dave

[mikki]

Who in their right mind would carry a gun while cycling? Seriously, get a grip!

Besides, it would make my bike to heavy, lol

[Pete Serotta]

Dont do it, trust me. Pete is right, just stay off those roads. As a firearm owner and a well trained Marine, I would highly recomend against it.


I knew I liked you --- I was in the marines also./ :cool:

[andy mac]

This reads like the opening scene for the TV show Six Feet Under.

[dogdriver]

Just remember, Texans-- a villiage called Crawford is about to get it's idiot back...

That said, I'm all about doing everything I can to avoid violent situations. You carry a gun, and your actions are bound to, at worst, be more aggressive, and, at least, less mindful of avoiding the bad people.

Of course, i was never in the "military", just the Air Force. An old Marine once told me this...

My $.02, Chris

[sg8357]

That said, I'm all about doing everything I can to avoid violent situations. You carry a gun, and your actions are bound to, at worst, be more aggressive, and, at least, less mindful of avoiding the bad people.
My $.02, Chris

Sort of the opposite really, read some of the Massad Ayoob stuff.
If you ever did shoot someone in self defense figure on a few years
in court and bankruptcy, that is figuring you are innocent.
A "good" shooting is only slightly better than being dead.

Scott G.
A big fan of Sir Robin.
Former member of the Leon Trotsky Lodge of the NRA.

[Pete Serotta]

From 30 years of riding, and being hit twice by pickups - it is not a pleasant experience. I assure you that you will be in more trouble firing at the guy who by the way probably is no longer a threat for he has passed you.

I am sure no anti gun person and do know how to use one. Between military service and hunting over the years, I respect the gun and its use - as well as respect the right for all to own one or more (legally). From a personal point of view, I could only see me using a gun to protect my family in my home. But that is just the opinion of one.

If you must - key is to have a "big" one to stop them in their tracks (the looks of it or the size will make folks think twice) - . 12 gauge is great home protection as Ginger says and a large caliber pistol is better than one of these small 22/32,,,no stopping power.

Unfortunately in these "political" days it is a last choice to use one in NC or in the north east states I have lived. This is why I now do not have one/

Confrontation is NEVER good unless it is the LAST possible course of action. Fighting over a piece of road is not worth it. There will always be another asshole. Trust me on that and also I apologize to all who might take offense of my words or beliefs.


I'm looking to protect myself from the guy in the pickup truck that wants to kick the sit out of me because he owns the road and bikes don't belong. I can't out run his truck on my bike, maybe you can. If I feel threatened enough to pull out a gun, deterrent nothing, I'm going to keep pulling the trigger till no more rounds can be fired. I'm not interested in playing you better back off or I'll shoot. And Pete, I do try to ride in safe places. In fact, I'm the one who waves at people when they give me the finger or cut me off at the corner, just as long as they don't hit me with there car, I'm good.

[Pete Serotta]

Just remember, Texans-- a villiage called Crawford is about to get it's idiot back...

That said, I'm all about doing everything I can to avoid violent situations. You carry a gun, and your actions are bound to, at worst, be more aggressive, and, at least, less mindful of avoiding the bad people.

Of course, i was never in the "military", just the Air Force. An old Marine once told me this...

My $.02, Chris

Yes the air force was a great club. WE use to love going to their NCO clubs. Much much better than the Marine ones - when we could slip in`

[dogdriver]

Yes the air force was a great club. WE use to love going to their NCO clubs. Much much better than the Marine ones - when we could slip in`


And we certainly enjoyed having you! The fighter bar on Friday night ws always a better place with a few Marines running around. If things got a little slow, we would spice up the evening by singing the Marine Corps Hymn to the tune of "Old Caroline". That usually did the trick. That said, it was always a great comfort to know that you and a few of your buds would come drag my prissy behind out of the sticks if I ever got in trouble.

SEMPER FI!

Chris

[Pete Serotta]

Usually sailors were first choice with us but ,if after the drinks, there were none around, marines were known to fight each other...oh well :confused: :confused:

We also liked seeing those planes come in with the "welcome" packages!!!


PETE

And we certainly enjoyed having you! The fighter bar on Friday night ws always a better place with a few Marines running around. If things got a little slow, we would spice up the evening by singing the Marine Corps Hymn to the tune of "Old Caroline". That usually did the trick. That said, it was always a great comfort to know that you and a few of your buds would come drag my prissy behind out of the sticks if I ever got in trouble.

SEMPER FI!

Chris

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . the guy who sold me my first "serious" road bike--a Vitus 979--told me he carried a small caliber piston when riding in rural areas outside of town after several encounters with locals who decided to indulge their bullying instincts.

I never had any problems there or since that required an armed response, but to me it's one of those things where if you've never had any problem you don't see the need, but if you have been accosted, harassed, or attacked, then such armament becomes mandatory. I also feel that rural, less traveled roads can be even more dangerous than in the big city. There's no one around to help you, there's probably nowhere close to run to get help, and the yahoos going after you may well be high school buddies of the local sheriff. That being said, I keep an eagle eye out wherever I ride for any car that slows down to follow me for more than a few seconds or that's parked by the side of the road ahead. I also carry my digital camera in a jersey pocket on every ride. I might see a beautiful scene I want to record--or I might need to get pics of the drunken yahoo coming at me after climbing out of his SUV.

If I carried a gun I'd be afraid that I'd be just a tad too tempted to use it, and once you've used it, you've crossed a threshold from which there's no going back. A law enforcement friend once told me--and I believe he was serious--that if you're in that situation and have to fire, make sure you kill the guy, because then there's no one to testify against you when you claim self-defense. It's advice I never want to test.

Another piece of advice I've always remembered, though ironically I can't remember where I heard it . . . never carry a gun unless you're willing to deal with the responsibility of pointing it at someone, never point it at someone unless you're willing to deal with the responsibility of pulling the trigger, and never pull the trigger unless you're willing to deal with the responsibility of killing the person you're pointing it at--because that's likely what you will have to do to end the confrontation once the gun play begins.

BBD

[93legendti]

I was thinking of getting a hand gun for protection while riding my bike on remote roads. I can think at least one down side including Plaxico Burrussing myself in the a$$. I was talking to a friend and he suggested mace. I've heard stories that the mace available to the general public is not effective in stopping attackers. I've been looking on the internet and found a mace product I might want to purchase. Does anyone have any experience with the pictured product or would you give any good mace advice in general?

Be prepared is my moto. What better way to get in the right frame of mind than riding with me and Israeli soldiers? I'll have a friend show you the right place to carry your weapon.


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=46137

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . just alter your wardrobe a bit to scare them off?

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . there are more, ah, "extreme" solutions! :rolleyes:

BBD

[Peter P.]

I wouldn't bother carrying a firearm; the odds of getting in a situation where you could justify it's use are VERY REMOTE. And you should NEVER draw your weapon unless you are in a position where it's use is imminently necessary. To draw it in hopes to scare an attacker off is asking to call someone's bluff.

Personal protective mace is probably ideal for most cyclists because you'll get in a lot less trouble using this non-lethal force. If you wonder whether it's effective, buy two canisters and have a buddy spray you with the first one. Let us know if it worked...

I think even more effective in today's world is the cellphone, and I don't even own one. In fact, I call it the "New gun of the Wild West" because everyone carry's the thing on their hip, thinking it is their instant savior and protection from harm. It goes something like this:

"Go ahead, try something. I'll just whip out my phone which you can see is right here on my belt, and call the police." That's what I think of when I see people wearing their phones. I truly think more people own them out of fear rather than convenience.

Anyway, that doesn't distract from their effectiveness in confrontational situations. The threat of making that call to the cops is usually enough deterrence to most would be aggressors. A side benefit is the camera phone. In a confrontation with a motorist?-Just whip out the phone, take their picture and that of their license plate then tell them you're going to the police; that's enough to shrink most manhood.

Heck, you don't even NEED a working phone-you'll save money too! Just PRETEND you're calling the PD or taking those photos and most people will run away. Need a phone? Why not steal one from those drop boxes where people leave old phones for rape victims or the elderly? ;-)

[mflaherty37]

i gots my own toxic dust, comes out of my pud hole. i don't whish it on my worst enemies.

[paulandmonster]

and i must say the officers club there is quite nice had to laugh though at the lunch buffet there was sh.t on a shingle. as far as the gun issue as much as id love to see some driver splatered the idea of going down with a gun in my pocket dosent appeal to me. plus you better be a dam good shot considering driver has over 3000lbs of protection. bottom line dont bother the world is full of them and you cant get them all just keep your head up and wheels verticle.

[Dekonick]

A mace might be a bit cumbersome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)

Perhaps a club or hammer would suffice? :rolleyes:

[palincss]

Why not try it on yourself first and see how effective it is ?


If you're not mindful of the direction of the wind, you can end up doing that to yourself by accident. It happened to me spraying a dog with Halt. Got the dog right in the face - eyes, nose, and he just shrugged it off. When the backblast hit me I thought I was having a heart attack. That was the last time I ever carried it, too.

[palincss]

Why would anyone recommend against that choice of prime riding terrain, whether armed or not?

I'm not sure I'd call any road where I felt I needed to carry a gun to feel safe "prime riding terrain."

[Louis]

1) If the area is that bad move away (assuming you can).

2) If you can't move, then get some bad-@ss William-type to teach you enough self-defense stuff (say a few years of Judo, Karate, whatever) so you get your confidence up and you don't feel like you have to rely on a gun.

[fiamme red]

It was a Friday. Fridays are usually good days because you have a lot of teenagers drinking and driving, plus a lot of people who are in a bad mood and in a hurry to get home from work. The factories usually pay on Friday, so you get a fair number of beer-commercial types cruising around in their 4X4s looking for some butt to kick while they're knocking back a few brews. A cyclist's paradise.

I stuck a full mag in my MAC-10 and put another one under the saddle. The gun fits into the water bottle cage pretty well, and it's fairly light. I stuffed a couple of grenades in my jersey pockets and slipped my Rambo-knife into its sheath on the front fork. Just for good measure, I grabbed a thermite grenade and dropped it into the remaining jersey pocket. This is a little more weight than I usually carry, but it was Friday night after all.

I caught the first one just a mile from home. It was a type-A, businessman-yuppie-semipsychotic in a BMW, who didn't like the fact that I was occupying two feet of the lane in front of him. He let me know with his horn and his middle finger. It's pretty hard to hit a moving car from a moving bike, even with a machine gun. I must have fired four bursts before I put one in the gas tank and the "Bimmer" erupted into flame. Fortunately, this bozo managed to get the car off on the shoulder before it blew up, so I didn't have to find a detour around the fire.

The next one didn't come along for another five or six miles. This was a couple of punks in an old Camaro. They pulled alongside me and the passenger barked out of the window like a dog. Then the driver floored it and screeched off in a cloud of burnt-oil smoke. I got lucky for once. The punks got caught at a stoplight, so I didn't need the gun. I pulled into the center of the road so I would pass the driver. As I rolled past, he started talking some punk talk. I don't know what he said, because he stopped in mid-sentence when he saw the grenade go through his open window into the back seat. I caught a glimpse of both of them frantically scrambling after it just as it went off. It looked like some of the glass and shrapnel did some damage to the car ahead of them, but it couldn't be helped. Every war claims some innocent victims.

[topospace]

Do they sell mace in carbon fiber cans? I think it would be too heavy to carry otherwise.

[Louis]

Do they sell mace in carbon fiber cans? I think it would be too heavy to carry otherwise.

Hey Topo - welcome to the forum. Another St Louisan joins up. :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

1) If the area is that bad move away (assuming you can).

2) If you can't move, then get some bad-@ss William-type to teach you enough self-defense stuff (say a few years of Judo, Karate, whatever) so you get your confidence up and you don't feel like you have to rely on a gun.

. . . you could just PAY William to hang around with you? He is pretty big, after all . . . ;) :D

BBD

[Louis]

. . . you could just PAY William to hang around with you? He is pretty big, after all . . . ;) :D

BBD

However, compared to that puny guy everyone is pretty big... :D

[Don49]

It was a Friday. Fridays are usually good days because you have a lot of teenagers drinking and driving, plus a lot of people who are in a bad mood and in a hurry to get home from work. The factories usually pay on Friday, so you get a fair number of beer-commercial types cruising around in their 4X4s looking for some butt to kick while they're knocking back a few brews. A cyclist's paradise. .............


Nicely written! You should finish it up and submit it to "Dirt Rag Magazine" for their literary contest. I'd sure like to know how the story ends, you left us wanting more.

[Blue Jays]

"...I'm not sure I'd call any road where I felt I needed to carry a gun to feel safe 'prime riding terrain'..."The OP said he uncovered a need for protection on REMOTE roads. You and I likely pedaled similar ones at the Finger Lakes Ramble this year.
We are not walking in the OP's shoes. If he has been accosted and his life threatened while innocently riding his bicycle, it's his call to make.

[William]

Ones choice to carry is a personal one. It’s not my place to tell someone whether they should or shouldn’t carry. What I will say is that if you choose to, make sure you familiarize yourself with your tool of choice, make sure it’s legal to carry, and get as much training as you can in its use.

In my experience, the more proficient you are with a given tool, the less likely you are to actually use it in a given situation. You understand the ramifications of its use and are much more likely to only use it as a last resort. Where many people get themselves into trouble is when they decide to carry a weapon, get little or no training, and don’t understand the degrees of force available through the use of that tool. To the point: They are more apt to go from zero to full force in a confrontation when there are degrees of force available to them. It takes training to develop control of a given tool.

To be specific (and purposely vague at the same time), I always carry a tool of some sort. If varies depending on the job, what I’m doing, and where I’m going. If I were say, to be carrying a knife, the absolute last thing I would do is deploy the blade. If verbal de-escalation wasn’t working, I would be much more likely to use it as a fist load if it came to that. I understand that there are options and degrees of force available to me. Until that point however, my attacker would never know that I had one. Life isn’t a scene from West Side story, flashing it into some ones face and tossing it back and forth from hand to hand. :rolleyes:

Open hand, firearms, chemical, edged or impact weapons. They all have their pluses and minuses. Whatever you choose, make sure it’s legal, get some proper training, and practice.

I’ve said it here before and I’ll say it again:

I would rather have it and not need it,
Than need it and not have it.


Regards,
William

[Blue Jays]

/\ William's commentary above about force escalation, +1.

[Mikej]

And we certainly enjoyed having you! The fighter bar on Friday night ws always a better place with a few Marines running around. If things got a little slow, we would spice up the evening by singing the Marine Corps Hymn to the tune of "Old Caroline". That usually did the trick. That said, it was always a great comfort to know that you and a few of your buds would come drag my prissy behind out of the sticks if I ever got in trouble.

SEMPER FI!

Chris

Only somebody who has been there knows what it is like.

[rodcad]

I have been harassed 3 times now on my bike. Once on a rural road by 2 yahoos in a pickup. They got right on my ass and followed me a ways. Once a guy stopped in the middle of the road, jumped out of his car and told me and my riding buddy and I we were what's wrong with the world, and another time was just yelled at by kids. These instances have made me consider a gun and I do have mace.

In just this last year alone, I have lost a friend due to a cycling/car encounter, then on Thanksgiving day, a local 9 year old girl died here of injuries sustained after getting hit by an SUV while the driver was distracted by her cell phone. This stuff is becoming all too common.

All of this makes me wonder if cycling on the road is really worth it anymore unless I'm in a large group. MTB'ing is very fun and pretty safe the way I ride. I also enjoy my local bike paths very much and they are extensive.

I don't mean to sound paranoid but I have a family to support. I have considered more than once simply not riding on the road anymore.

Happy trails and safe riding to you all,
Rod

[bzbvh5]

When I started this post I expected a few responses. I have read everyone's advice to this point. I don't agree with all of it, but I thank you for sharing your honest thoughts. Freedom of thought is a good thing. I got some good ideas and good perspective. I hope some of you learned as much as I have.

Just as a parting note. The other reason I don't want to carry a gun is that I'm not sure I have the resolve to kill someone with it. I think more of us are in that category than are willing to admit. What ever I do, it will be within the law and as a last resort. Let them honk, let them cuss, let them express themselves other ways. Confrontation is the last thing anyone needs. Be safe our there and Thanks for Sharing.

[Blue Jays]

"...When I started this post I expected a few responses. I have read everyone's advice to this point. I don't agree with all of it, but I thank you for sharing your honest thoughts. Freedom of thought is a good thing. I got some good ideas and good perspective. I hope some of you learned as much as I have.

Just as a parting note. The other reason I don't want to carry a gun is that I'm not sure I have the resolve to kill someone with it. I think more of us are in that category than are willing to admit. What ever I do, it will be within the law and as a last resort. Let them honk, let them cuss, let them express themselves other ways. Confrontation is the last thing anyone needs. Be safe our there and Thanks for Sharing..."And spoken like a true gentleman! Your adaptable mindset illustrates you'll likely do well regardless of what the road throws at you.
Stay safe and keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up!

[fiamme red]

Nicely written! You should finish it up and submit it to "Dirt Rag Magazine" for their literary contest. I'd sure like to know how the story ends, you left us wanting more.I wish I could take credit for it! It was actually written almost 20 years ago by Bob Fishell, the first in what became the "Spike Bike" series. I wanted to see if anyone recognized it.

The stories after this one created a futuristic society where The Twenty (giant corporations) outlawed cyclists on the road, and people were allowed to run them down and kill them:

In 1992, the Congress passed all kinds of ridiculous laws designed to curb the demand for Japanese goods. One such was the Bicycle Act, which cut off federal highway money to any state that didn't strip bicycles of any claim of right of way on the public roads. Shortly after it was passed, reports of bicycle fatalities all around the Country rose sharply. The same hotheads, rednecks and hell-raisers who used to just harass cyclists had upped the stakes to what amounted to legalized murder. The nation's roads became a living Hell. As The Twenty expected, bicycle sales, and hence imports, dropped off to nothing. The nation's highways were ruled by motor-driven hooligans who killed for sport. It had to stop. I, Spiro Bikopoulis, alias Spike Bike, would make the roads a living Hell for _them_...

...Back in the garage, I set about converting the bazooka and some old Reynolds tubing into a bikezooka. When I was finished, it looked pretty much like any other fat-tube bike, except your every-day Kleins and Cannondales aren't capable of firing antitank rockets out both the front and back ends. The bike handled a little funny, but I wasn't going to do any criteriums on this baby.

Read them all here:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mjh/spike.html

[csm]

flashbangs work best. non-lethal but gets the point acrossed.

[handsomerob]

...I would rather have it and not need it,
Than need it and not have it.


Regards,
William

William, I agree 100%.

and to the OP, I have carried my P3AT (unchambered) on a number of rides. I have ridden by drug deals in the act, I have ridden past a kid riding with a shotgun on his handlebars (with a plastic grocery bag on each end to be less obvious). I understand that I can only limit my exposure to possible threats. I do not live in a utopia, I don't know anyone that does.

I haven't been in a car accident in about 20 years, but I buckle my seatbelt every time I get in a car. Safely prepare yourself to whatever level you feel is appropriate.

[I1anewbike]

I carry Halt 2 pepper spray in my jersey pocket. It's designed for dogs but I figure it's better than nothing against a redneck as a last resort. The few times I have used it against dogs it has been very effective. A postal carrier told me that it is standard issue and has never let her down.

Drawbacks: It's a bit random. The stream turns into a spray quickly, is subject to the wind. The range is only 10-12 feet. Not good in a group ride. And the one time I got some on my hands and subsequently transferred it elsewhere at a rest stop was also memorable...

Here's the link: http://www.halt.com/halt.html

[Louis]

I don't carry, but I have heard that 1) You don't carry a gun "just to scare people," you have to be prepared to use it, and 2) If you shoot at someone you can't just "aim to hit them in the leg or arm" you aim for the torso, which likely as not has a high probability of killing them.

For me cycling is supposed to be fun. The idea that I could begin a ride knowing that I might kill someone would be reason enough to not do that ride. That's not a ride, that's war.

Bottom line: For me cycling and killing people just don't mix.

[csm]

back when I rode mtn bikes alot on the game lands I carried legally. we used to talk about a biathalon-type event. pedal a little, shoot a little.

[William]

...For me cycling is supposed to be fun. The idea that I could begin a ride knowing that I might kill someone would be reason enough to not do that ride. That's not a ride, that's war.

Bottom line: For me cycling and killing people just don't mix.


No one goes out thinking I might kill someone today (law abiding citizens anyway). The mindset is that I will be ready to protect myself if needed. Being prepared to stop violence against you is not a crime. In my own case it is second nature now and I don’t even consciously think about it. It’s not really any different than carrying my wallet….I know it’s there but I don’t obsess or focus on it. An old saying that one of my early instructors would have us learn…and I think may have also been uttered on the series “Kung Fu”:

“Learn ways to…
Preserve rather than destroy.
Avoid rather than check.
Check rather than hurt.
Hurt rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill.
For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."

Point being that you only take it as far as is needed to end the confrontation (degrees of force). Taking someone’s life is the absolute last resort.

The average citizen walks around in life thinking nothing will ever happen to them…then agonize over the “why” when it does. “What could have been done to prevent it?” Most of the time it’s random…wrong place at the wrong time. Taking precautions to preserve your life is not a sin. I love my family and I love life. If someone decides they want to try and remove me from it, or cause harm to myself or my family, I want to be prepared to take it as far as is needed to end the confrontation.

Period.

Have a wonderful day.
William

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ Perfectly stated by William above.
Preparedness while upon the bicycle (or otherwise) is a rheostat, not a toggle switch.

[Lifelover]

I'm all in favor of carrying a weapon for protection and I think most of the advise above is spot on in regards to training, willingness to use it and using it as a last resort.

I just don't understand where you would carry it on a ride. Would you have it in your jersey pocket?

In order to use it only as a last resort, the weapon needs to be out of sight but accessible at a moments notice. Even a rear Jersey pocket may not be accessible enough if you really needed it.

[Ken Robb]

one can buy quick-access holsters that look like a regular fannypack

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . of simply buying a holster and zip tie-ing it to your handlebars?

BBD

[palincss]

. . . of simply buying a holster and zip tie-ing it to your handlebars?

BBD

That would certainly bring you a lot of attention from local law enforcement, and probably generate a bunch of 911 man-with-a-gun calls, as per the "open carry" discussion earlier in the thread.

There are two solutions that come to mind:

- A handlebar bag. Of course that wouldn't work on a typical road racer, but it would be fine on a bike set up like a randonneur. Get the right bike and the right bag, and you could probably carry anything up to and including a .45ACP Colt Commander, so there'd certainly be no questions about either intimidation potential or efficacy.

- I ran into this guy at Bike Virginia who was talking about this ultralightweight single-shot pistol, almost all plastic, he always carried inside his jersey hanging from a chain around his neck. I looked hard at him and for sure I couldn't see a thing.

Of course, that assumes one would find a tiny, ultralight single shot small caliber pistol to be satisfactory. Intimidation potential would be about zero, I think; maximum effective range probably around 3 cm; stopping power roughly equal to weight -- all in all, it didn't seem to be worth the trouble, never mind the risk.

[93legendti]

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Fuel+Box&vendorCode=PROFILE&major=3&minor=7

[Seramount]

I want to shoot fellow humans as much as the next guy, but the legal quagmire that you'll find yourself in is probably much worse than any asskicking you're likely to receive for wearing funny clothes or being on other people's roads.

[mikki]

I want to shoot fellow humans as much as the next guy, but the legal quagmire that you'll find yourself in is probably much worse than any asskicking you're likely to receive for wearing funny clothes or being on other people's roads.

Agree.

I have certainly let my mind wander after being "egg'd" and having welts where the shells hit my skin (summertime). My thoughts of having a water bottle filled with paint and squirting the car all over with that paint that housed the thugs that hit me. Like red or yellow paint; their car was black.....

But if I thought my bike-to-bike accident in Sept. was knarly, imagine what would a car RUNNING OVER a bicyclist would be like?....ugh. We are no match for a vehicle.

[Louis]

We are no match for a vehicle.

Unless you're packing an AK-47 or an Uzi ;)

[andy mac]

You freaks need to move beyond the 'Action' section of the video store.

[Fixed]

I would not recommend a gun or mace..... If you are uneasy riding certain roads, I would suggest staying of them.

Both a gun or mace can create problems that are best left "uncreated" PETE
+1
unless you are ready to shoot someone don't pull one it can be taken away from you and used on you ..imho

[johnnymossville]

You freaks need to move beyond the 'Action' section of the video store.

LOL. that's pretty funny.

[Blue Jays]

"...the legal quagmire that you'll find yourself in is probably much worse than any asskicking you're likely to receive for wearing funny clothes or being on other people's roads..."Hey, you might be just dead right! Good for you!

[William]

You freaks need to move beyond the 'Action' section of the video store.


Funny. :) Though these are the first folks to come running to you for help when the chit hits it.

Anyone who waves a gun around indiscriminatley, or pops off a few rounds at the first hints of trouble are folks who shouldn't be carrying. If you have no self control, or feel that you will lose it and go Rambo at the first sign of trouble then you're right, you can't rely on yourself for protection. You can and should call your local LEO. With all due respect to them, the majority of the time they get to you...after the fact.



Happy trails,
William

[Louis]

Funny. :) Though these are the first folks to come running to you for help when the chit hits it.

William, that's why we hire the police and the US military. It's their job to do that. If I'm in trouble I don't call the NRA member or Karate adept down the street, I call 911. (not that I've ever had to do that - yet)

[William]

That's what I said, but....





William :)

[93legendti]

William, that's why we hire the police and the US military. It's their job to do that. If I'm in trouble I don't call the NRA member or Karate adept down the street, I call 911. (not that I've ever had to do that - yet)

You can call 911 and get the US military to respond?

[Louis]

That's what I said, but....

That's not how I interpreted "you."

[Louis]

You can call 911 and get the US military to respond?

Don't be silly. We call on them as a collective whole. 911 was an example.

[William]

That's not how I interpreted "you."

That line was toungue-in-cheek (hence the inserted :) face) directed at the person I quoted.


You can call the police, and you should (the Military won't respond to your 911 ;) ), but the fact is, they will get there after the incident.


William

[93legendti]

Don't be silly. We call on them as a collective whole. 911 was an example.

So if one person gets in trouble, everyone, as a collective whole, calls the US Military? :crap:
Silly,
indeed.
William, that's why we hire the police and the US military. It's their job to do that. If I'm in trouble I don't call the NRA member or Karate adept down the street, I call 911. (not that I've ever had to do that - yet)

[Blue Jays]

Why dial 911 when you can dial 1911 instead?

[johnnymossville]

Is that a Colt 45 in your spandex shorts or are you just happy to see me?

[William]

Is that a Colt 45 in your spandex shorts or are you just happy to see me?

Hi Sailor....

http://msp274.photobucket.com/albums/jj244/metalfarmer92/colt45.jpg


:D :D
William

[Blue Jays]

"...If I'm in trouble I don't call the NRA member or Karate adept down the street, I call 911..."True story:
I know of a guy who was accosted by a complete stranger who exited his car holding a golf club and said, "You're going to get a beating" and subsequently clubbed this person to within an inch of his life.
They were strangers and the guy with the golf club was simply a sociopath. Why should any innocent person (especially cyclists, who encounter far many more drivers) have to suffer like that if it can be avoided?

[deanster]

There are some mace like products for sale for use against bears and Mt lions here in Colorado. I do some off roading in the Rockies and always go with a buddy (who is slower on a bike than I am...). Seriously, try and ride with someone on these back roads for mutual self protection.
I was good with firearms in the service but, I wouldn't go packing now. Too many ways of going afoul of the law...not to mention the potential for accidents.
I have been riding for a long time (53 years) and many miles on mountain roads alone here in Colorado and Oregon logging roads, and I still wouldn't go armed. Nothing less than a 357 would do me any good against the big game around here...or Compton.

[93legendti]

http://www.golangroup.com/products-cornershot.shtml

[William]

True story:
I know of a guy who was accosted by a complete stranger who exited his car holding a golf club and said, "You're going to get a beating" and subsequently clubbed this person to within an inch of his life.
They were strangers and the guy with the golf club was simply a sociopath. Why should any innocent person (especially cyclists, who encounter far many more drivers) have to suffer like that if it can be avoided?


I'm very sorry to hear of this. I hope he has recovered fully. Unfortunately attacks like that not as uncommon as people think. We've all been yelled at, had stuff thrown at us, and been the brunt of folks agression for no apparent reason other than we are slowing them down and/or we dress funny and ride bikes. You just never know.



William




William

[William]

NOT COMFORTABLE WITH FIREARMS? YOU HAVE OPTIONS. Of course they all require practice and training IMO.


William

[Blue Jays]

"...I'm very sorry to hear of this. I hope he has recovered fully. Unfortunately attacks like that not as uncommon as people think. We've all been yelled at, had stuff thrown at us, and been the brunt of folks aggression for no apparent reason other than we are slowing them down and/or we dress funny and ride bikes. You just never know..."The assailant was eventually caught due to description of the car, physical evidence linking him to the crime, and eyewitnesses. He served just under a year in prison. The victim continues to recover and is happy to be alive.
Granted he was probably in "Condition White" in the period before the attack, yet that accounts for the vast majority of our population. Cyclists should feel free to complete their own safety assessments and make their own decisions based upon what they feel is best for THEIR particular situation. :beer:

[Lifelover]

You can call 911 and get the US military to respond?


Maybe not always, but sometimes.

Last year while MTBing I took a fall and dislocated my elbow. I was with my 2 young boys, in a state park and about 7 miles from my car. Instead of trying to walk out, I called 911. When I made the call I did not realize how close to the road the trails was and told the operater that I was in the woods on the trial. The city did not have any off road vehicles close and there is a military base adjacent to the park. Some marines showed up in a hummer in case thier assistance was needed.

So yes, calling 911 may very well get action from the US military.

Jet Noise and Marines in Hummers! Two reasons to LOVE Virginia Beach

[billrick]

Did anyone post this yet? Basically a two shot, pyrotechnic-charged pepper derringer. If it is made by Kimber, I suspect we can trust it.

Kimber Pepper Shot (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=5838)

[William]

Did anyone post this yet? Basically a two shot, pyrotechnic-charged pepper derringer. If it is made by Kimber, I suspect we can trust it.

Kimber Pepper Shot (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=5838)


Interesting. I need to look into this a little more.


William

"Whether we choose to consciously acknowledge it or not, as cyclists we're vulnerable. Cars (or, should we say, texting and/or Vicodin-whacked drivers) are the most obvious threat. If you use common sense, i.e. don't train on busy thoroughfares, don't ride into the setting sun, it's a reasonable hedge. Our sport is the most beautiful one existent, and perhaps part of the allure is the fact that on some level on every ride we must accept the fact that when our number is up, it's up.

Dealing with cars is to some extent a matter of faith, but that's not what we're interested in discussing today. Instead let's focus on secondary threats. These threats, while no less potentially perilous, are distinct from cars because you can exercise significant control over the situation. We're thinking of angry drivers who choose to get out of their cars to confront you; of ferocious dogs that won't give way; of bears who lay in wait for a once-a-year appearance on our favorite trails. There are times you don't get to choose fight-or-flight. There are times -- thankfully they're super-rare -- when you must pay dark wages for your lifelong love of cycling. And that's what the Kimber PepperBlaster is all about.

Let's back up a second and provide some disclosure: We think guns are perfectly fine things to own. We shoot them periodically. We wish there were a form of biathlon that incorporated bikes instead of skis. But taking a gun on a bike ride just doesn't make sense. Foremost, they're heavy. It makes no sense to carry a 4lb weapon when you're astride a 15lb bike. Secondly, they're potentially dangerous to carry (read: Plaxico Burress). Thirdly, while we're comfortable with the idea of pointing a gun at an unwelcome human inside our home, it's tough to envision an uncomplicated outcome when you point a gun at an asshole at an intersection. So, in short, packing heat on a ride is unadvisable.

Kimber PepperBlaster is unlike any pepper spray or mace-like stuff you've ever seen before. Stuff like "Halt!" is a marshmallow gun by comparison. Kimber refers to it as a "non-lethal weapon", and as one of the world's premier manufacturers of 1911 pistols, they know lethality.......:

[gdw]

What exactly is "pharmaceutical grade oleoresin capsicum" and how do I get a perscription?

[Pete Serotta]

:beer: :beer:

What exactly is "pharmaceutical grade oleoresin capsicum" and how do I get a perscription?

[fiamme red]

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009/01/cheese-up-blows-down-self-expression.html

At any rate, I was simultaneously amused and frightened by the way in which Competitive Cyclist also employed its florid prose to sell pepper spray, since underneath it were some scary sentiments. For example:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wb8bAl1P-N0/SW1UBs62IrI/AAAAAAAAFmI/JH9iI-xuBBs/s1600/2009%2BKimber%2BPepperBlaster%2B-%2BCompetitive%2BCyclist.jpg

I would love nothing more than to visit the home of Competitive Cyclist, where I imagine we could put on Bill Evans's "Portrait in Jazz," sip some wine, and then pop off a few rounds. However, I'm also deathly afraid of someone who is "comfortable with the idea of pointing a gun at an unwelcome human inside our home." Don't get me wrong--if someone breaks into your house you've got every right to point whatever you want at them, whether it's a gun, or a knife, or a blowdryer set to "high," or even a moldy zucchini. No, what freaks me out is the "comfortable" part. To me, that doesn't imply self-defense; it implies a sneer and an "I've been waiting for this." Moreover, who's to say what "unwelcome" means? Trust me, if you have me over I can wear out my welcome pretty quick. I'd hate to step out of the bathroom after urinating without botherering to pick the up the toilet seat only to find a muzzle in my face. (Though a blast of pepper spray might be warranted.) Also:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wb8bAl1P-N0/SW1UVFukhrI/AAAAAAAAFmQ/if4w-lrxeJ4/s1600/2009%2BKimber%2BPepperBlaster%2B-%2BCompetitive%2BCyclist-1.jpg

I have to say, I never expected to read the phrase "they know lethality" on a bicycle mail order site. This makes me suspect that there's a secret section of the Competitive Cyclist site where paranoid militiamen can outfit themselves with weapons for the coming race war. Plus, I know they say it won't discharge accidentally, but what if you're on a group ride, reach into your jersey thinking it's goo, and blast yourself in the face with it? You can do pretty stupid things when you're anaerobic. Or what if you get a flat and mistake it for a CO2?