ot Man Killed in WALMART STAMPEDE @ 5AM

[Pete Serotta]

November 28, 2008, 11:16 am
Man Killed in Wal-Mart Stampede
Ann Zimmerman reports.

A 34-year-old male Wal-Mart worker died shortly after a crowd of shoppers broke through the doors at 5 a.m. and trampled him at the Green Acres Shopping Center in Valley Stream, N.Y, according to Nassau County Police Department spokesman, Michael Aronsen. He was pronounced dead at the hospital an hour later in what the police are considering it an “undetermined death.” An official ruling will be made by the medical examiner’s office, which could take up to two weeks.

“It was like rush hour traffic around the malls this morning,” Mr. Aronsen said.

Wal-Mart said it is trying to determine the facts surrounding the incident. A 28- year-old pregnant female was also transported to an area hospital for observation. Additionally three other shoppers suffered minor injuries and were transported to area hospitals.

“The safety and security of our customers and associates is our top priority,” Wal-Mart said in a statement.

“A tragic situation occurred this morning prior to opening at our Valley Stream, N.Y., location. We are saddened to report that a gentleman who was working for a temporary agency on our behalf died at the store and a few of our customers were injured. Our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families at this difficult time. At this point, facts are still being assembled and we are working closely with the Nassau County Police as they investigate what occurred.

“As there is still an ongoing investigation, any further comment would be best served coming from them.”

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Read more: Black Friday, Discount

[Seramount]

pathetic.

trampled to death by walmart shoppers. wouldn't want that on my obit.

[Louis]

Human psychology and mob behaviour can be ugly.

Merry Christmas - be sure to have lots of presents under the tree, that's the Holiday Spirit.

[Elefantino]

People will continue to stampede others (remember the YouTube video from two years ago) as long as these doorbuster sales continue, which is forever.

[Ahneida Ride]

Insanity .... Pure Insanity ...

[Elefantino]

Do you suppose that if the shoppers who stampeded that man knew that live.com was up to 30 percent off that they would crash the Internets?

[rcnute]

Inadequate security and crowd control. I hope Wal-Mart is sued for millions.

[CSi guy]

just one more example of how pathetic we are in the US.

[Elefantino]

If you look in the background of the video as the man is undergoing CPR, you see many people with cell phones taking video and stills.

The best of them will be sold to the Enquirer or People.

[Ahneida Ride]

just one more example of how pathetic we are in the US.


Amen ....

It's Shop till you Drop .....

Don't people spend time with their families anymore ... ???? :confused:

[A.L.Breguet]

Only in America.

[Louis]

The best of them will be sold to the Enquirer or People.

Great!

They can take that blood money and buy more presents for their kids.

[BumbleBeeDave]

They had a graph describing some of the "bargains" that shoppers were trampling this guy to get . . . 42" plasma TV for $798 . . . Samsung 10 megapixel digital camera for $69. Then they had shoppers quoted as protesting when the store was closed, complaining they had been in line since Thursday morning. So not only were these people admitting that a good deal on a TV was more important to them than some stranger's life, they were also admitting they spent all of Thanksgiving Day in line outside a freaking discount store. It's not pathetic, it beyond pathetic . . .

BTW, here's another one . . . Is this really the only country on earth where people's priorities are so out of whack, or do these things also happen in other countries and we just don't hear about them? :confused: :( :mad:

BBD

==============

2 dead after shots fired in SoCal Toys 'R' Us
By GILLIAN FLACCUS (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
November 28, 2008 6:59 PM EST
PALM DESERT, Calif. - Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the victims' relatives were notified.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

City spokeswoman Sheila Gilligan said police told her the shooting broke out between "two groups of individuals that have a dispute with each other."

The Palm Desert Police Department received calls of shots fired around 11:35 a.m., Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said. He said officers were still investigating what prompted the gunshots.

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Immediately after the shooting, about 20 people rushed into the World Gym across the street from Toys "R" Us, the gym's assistant manager Glenn Splain told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

"They were crying, tearing and shaking," Splain said, adding that one woman came in cradling a baby.

"Some people got into a fight," said Splain, who spoke with some of the customers. "One of the guys here thought it was over a toy, but it got louder and louder and then there were gunshots."

Sarah Pacia of Cathedral City told The Desert Sun newspaper she was in the store with her two boys, ages 4 and 6, looking at coloring books when she heard a commotion in the next aisle. She thought it was people rushing to get a sale item. Then she heard three or four shots.

She said she froze, and store employees calmly escorted her out of the store.

"This is Toys "R" Us. There are kids shopping in there," Pacia said. Her son Jayden, 4, was clinging to her leg. He told her he didn't want to die, she said.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

[zray67]

I went to my first ever Black Friday Sale. Greed and fear are the prevalent
emotions on display at these sales. Greed of I want, I want at the low price.
And fear that the store will run out before it is your turn to buy. But, greed and
fear are not just limited to Black Friday sales. Stock markets around the world
have greed and fear in abundance every day of the week.
Raymond

[bigman]

This entire concept of "doorbusters" is shameful - it is asking for horrific endings. The marketing geniuses behind this are anything but.

[Blue Jays]

What a horrible tragedy for this man, his friends, and family. :(

Since this is a bicycle forum, does anyone know if their premier NEXT and MONGOOSE bicycles were also on sale for aspiring racers?

[Ray]

One one level its a very sad personal tragedy / situation. On another level, its a really sad commentary. I've never done any Black Friday shopping (maybe a few groceries for stuff depleted on turkey day) and these days I hardly do any holiday shopping in person anymore. There are a few local stores that my wife likes and I try to get her a few things from those, but otherwise, I'm almost entirely online for my holiday shopping. And I don't go anywhere NEAR a mall between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Those people are crazy out there.

-Ray

[RPS]

This entire concept of "doorbusters" is shameful - it is asking for horrific endings. The marketing geniuses behind this are anything but.I agree it’s a bad idea to entice a large crowd with limited supply of low-cost goods; but don’t see it as shameful as long as it’s not based on deceptive advertising. If the crowd knows what they are standing in line for, then I see no problem (although I have never done it and hopefully never will).

What I have the biggest problem with is the mentality of the shoppers who act with little or no dignity or decorum. Dignified people wouldn’t rush like a herd of cattle to get a “great deal” on a plasma TV.

[michael white]

Dignified people wouldn’t rush like a herd of cattle to get a “great deal” on a plasma TV.


of course not, but they trample each other to death with some regularity at certain sporting events, and they don't even get a tv.

[RPS]

of course not, but they trample each other to death with some regularity at certain sporting events, and they don't even get a tv.Maybe that says too much about our society. :rolleyes:

[Tobias]

It's hard to entice people to act like idiots unless they are idiots.

[Ray]

It's hard to entice people to act like idiots unless they are idiots.
I'm not sure that's true. Based on experience, its FAR easier to get smart people to act like idiots than it is to get idiots to act smart. Particularly when large number of them are aggregated in one place. Then again, maybe all the REALLY smart ones stayed home...

-Ray

[djg]

Great!

They can take that blood money and buy more presents for their kids.

Maybe the lucky photographer will be able to score enough bucks to buy a conscience.

[Tobias]

I'm not sure that's true. Based on experience, its FAR easier to get smart people to act like idiots than it is to get idiots to act smart.Spoken like a true Democrat. ;)

Of course you are right; idiots by defenition can't act smart (other than by pure chance or luck). And yes, a few smart people can be fooled to act dumb, but in this case it boils down to accountability. People "are" responsible for doing stupid things like killing someone in order to save a few bucks. I blame the stupid crowd more than the store.

[Pete Serotta]

The throng of Wal-Mart shoppers had been building all night, filling sidewalks and stretching across a vast parking lot at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, N.Y. At 3:30 a.m., the Nassau County police had to be called in for crowd control, and an officer with a bullhorn pleaded for order.

By 4:55, with no police officers in sight, the crowd of more than 2,000 had become a rabble, and could be held back no longer. Fists banged and shoulders pressed on the sliding-glass double doors, which bowed in with the weight of the assault. Six to 10 workers inside tried to push back, but it was hopeless.

Suddenly, witnesses and the police said, the doors shattered, and the shrieking mob surged through in a blind rush for holiday bargains. One worker, Jdimytai Damour, 34, was thrown back onto the black linoleum tiles and trampled in the stampede that streamed over and around him. Others who had stood alongside Mr. Damour trying to hold the doors were also hurled back and run over, witnesses said.

Some workers who saw what was happening fought their way through the surge to get to Mr. Damour, but he had been fatally injured, the police said. Emergency workers tried to revive Mr. Damour, a temporary worker hired for the holiday season, at the scene, but he was pronounced dead an hour later at Franklin Hospital Medical Center in Valley Stream.

Four other people, including a 28-year-old woman who was described as eight months pregnant, were treated at the hospital for minor injuries.

Detective Lt. Michael Fleming, who is in charge of the investigation for the Nassau police, said the store lacked adequate security. He called the scene “utter chaos” and said the “crowd was out of control.” As for those who had run over the victim, criminal charges were possible, the lieutenant said. “I’ve heard other people call this an accident, but it is not,” he said. “Certainly it was a foreseeable act.”

But even with videos from the store’s surveillance cameras and the accounts of witnesses, Lieutenant Fleming and other officials acknowledged that it would be difficult to identify those responsible, let alone to prove culpability.

Some shoppers who had seen the stampede said they were shocked. One of them, Kimberly Cribbs of Queens, said the crowd had acted like “savages.” Shoppers behaved badly even as the store was being cleared, she recalled.

“When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, ‘I’ve been on line since yesterday morning,’ ” Ms. Cribbs told The Associated Press. “They kept shopping.”

Wal-Mart security officials and the police cleared the store, swept up the shattered glass and locked the doors until 1 p.m., when it reopened to a steady stream of calmer shoppers who passed through the missing doors and battered door jambs, apparently unaware that anything had happened.

Ugly shopping scenes, a few involving injuries, have become commonplace during the bargain-hunting ritual known as Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. The nation’s largest retail group, the National Retail Federation, said it had never heard of a worker being killed on Black Friday.

Wal-Mart declined to provide details of the stampede, but said in a statement that it had tried to prepare by adding staff members. Still, it was unclear how many security workers it had at the Valley Stream store for the opening on Friday. The Green Acres Mall provides its own security to supplement the staffs of some large stores, but it did not appear that Wal-Mart was one of them.

A Wal-Mart spokesman, Dan Folgleman, called it a “tragic situation,” and said the victim had been hired from a temporary staffing agency and assigned to maintenance work. Wal-Mart, in a statement issued at its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., said: “The safety and security of our customers and associates is our top priority. Our thoughts and prayers are with them and their families at this tragic time.”

Wal-Mart has successfully resisted unionization of its employees. New York State’s largest grocery union, Local 1500 of the United Food and Commercial Workers, called the death of Mr. Damour “avoidable” and demanded investigations.

“Where were the safety barriers?” said Bruce Both, the union president. “Where was security? How did store management not see dangerous numbers of customers barreling down on the store in such an unsafe manner? This is not just tragic; it rises to a level of blatant irresponsibility by Wal-Mart.”

While other Wal-Mart stores dot the suburbs around the city, the outlet at Valley Stream, less than two miles from New York City’s southeastern border, draws customers from Queens, Brooklyn and the densely populated suburbs of Nassau County. And it was not the only store in the Green Acres Mall that attracted large crowds.

Witnesses said the crowd outside Wal-Mart began gathering at 9 p.m. on Thursday. The night was not bitterly cold, and the early mood was relaxed. By the early morning hours, the throngs had grown, and officers of the Fifth Precinct of the Nassau County Police Department, who patrol Valley Stream, were out in force, checking on crowds at the mall.

Mr. Damour, who lived in Queens, went into the store sometime during the night to stock shelves and perform maintenance work.

On Friday night, Mr. Damour’s father, Ogera Charles, 67, said his son had spent Thursday evening having Thanksgiving dinner at a half sister’s house in Queens before going directly to work. Mr. Charles said his son, known as Jimmy, was raised in Queens by his mother and worked at various stores in the area after graduating from high school.

Mr. Charles said he had not seen his son in three months, and heard about his death about 7 a.m. Friday, when a friend of Mr. Damour’s called him at home. He arrived at Franklin Hospital Medical Center an hour later to identify the body. Mr. Charles said he was angry that no one from Wal-Mart had contacted him or had explained how his son had died. Maria Damour, Mr. Damour’s mother, was in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, but was on her way back to the United States, Mr. Charles said.

About the time that Mr. Damour was killed, a shopper at a Wal-Mart in Farmingdale, 15 miles east of Valley Stream, said she was trampled by a crowd of overeager customers, the Suffolk County police reported. The woman sustained a cut on her leg, but finished her shopping before filing the police report, an officer said.

Anahad O’Connor contributed reporting.

[93legendti]

Spoken like a true Democrat. ;)

Of course you are right; idiots by defenition can't act smart (other than by pure chance or luck). And yes, a few smart people can be fooled to act dumb, but in this case it boils down to accountability. People "are" responsible for doing stupid things like killing someone in order to save a few bucks. I blame the stupid crowd more than the store.

A broken clock is right 2 x per day.

[Climb01742]

if walmart -- or any store -- is going to create the conditions in which something like this can happen -- to reap the monetary rewards -- then i think it's also their responsibility to create the conditions -- security, some sort of orderly way in enter the store, a customer number system, like at bakeries, for serving buyers -- to make sure no one is injured or dies. it seems like walmart, and other retailers, create a darwinian situation where bad things can too easily happen, but then don't take necessary precautions.

any lawyers out there? does this rise to negligence?

[Elefantino]

It may not rise to negligence but it will definitely rise to litigation.

Yes, there are lawyers out there and they will be lining up around the block for this case.

[Kirk Pacenti]

"Grab much too much, or you'll get nothing at all".

- Kurt Vonnegut
God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater: Or, Pearls Before Swine

[michael white]

It may not rise to negligence but it will definitely rise to litigation.

Yes, there are lawyers out there and they will be lining up around the block for this case.


of course they will, and it's pretty unlikely that anyone will feel sorry for Walmart when they lose their as s. They had a mob of thousands in the parking lot, and one poor guy in the door? That will not cut it.

I feel a little guilty sometimes, going to our local Supercenter: the cashiers are always so dead tired and obviously depressed. It's rare to see one of them smile. It ain't right.

[Louis]

I feel a little guilty sometimes, going to our local Supercenter: the cashiers are always so dead tired and obviously depressed. It's rare to see one of them smile. It ain't right.

And here's the thing, assuming nobody put a gun to their head to force them to work there, we can conclude that working at WalMart is the best option available to them. Sad, but it's a paycheck. However, if you decide that the way WalMart treats those folks is not right and you boycott WalMart, and if enough folks agree with you and do the same, then that poor guy might well loose his job.

I'm always torn about stuff like this - stand on principle or be realistic about things.

Louis

[Karin Kirk]

And here's the thing, assuming nobody put a gun to their head to force them to work there, we can conclude that working at WalMart is the best option available to them. Sad, but it's a paycheck. However, if you decide that the way WalMart treats those folks is not right and you boycott WalMart, and if enough folks agree with you and do the same, then that poor guy might well loose his job.

I'm always torn about stuff like this - stand on principle or be realistic about things.

Louis

I hear you, but my take is that I'd much rather give my money to some other store so that they can hire more cashiers instead, and then treat them better. Not only does it help me stand on principle, but I also have a much better experience if I can exchange a few cheerful words with the staff and feel like part of the community.

[RPS]

if walmart -- or any store -- is going to create the conditions in which something like this can happen -- to reap the monetary rewards -- then i think it's also their responsibility to create the conditions -- security, some sort of orderly way in enter the store, a customer number system, like at bakeries, for serving buyers -- to make sure no one is injured or dies. it seems like walmart, and other retailers, create a darwinian situation where bad things can too easily happen, but then don't take necessary precautions.

any lawyers out there? does this rise to negligence?Using “can” as the standard by which to judge negligence is too broad IMO and will lead to excessive litigation. If so we’ll all end up paying for it; and not just in financial terms but also in loss of freedom of choice.

Using that logic a bike race “can” lead to serious injuries and death, right? Should the organizers be held accountable because accidents can happen? :no:
Rick

[RPS]

IMO there is an underlying issue that is not being discussed. Actually, it’s ignored very often because of the way our legal system seems to work. We are more interested in the consequences of actions instead of the actions themselves.

No doubt Wal-Mart will be sued over this event’s unfortunate death and other injuries. However, how many other Wal-Marts did the same promotion and no one died? For that matter, how many Best Buys, Circuit City’s, Macy’s etc….? The number is in the 1,000s.

Their marketing program may have been ill-advised and implemented poorly, but were they really that different or more risky than 1,000s of other stores across the nation? I seriously doubt it.

I know that assigning numbers as Climb suggests could have avoided the problem, but unless we “punish” all other stores that didn’t assign numbers or take similar actions to prevent a tragedy like this one, I think it’s very unfair to go after this particular Wal-Mart. It was a very unfortunate consequence of the very same actions many others took.

[93legendti]

What does it say about our society that there is more hand wringing, condemnation and soul searching here about the accidental death at a Wal-Mart than there is re: the terrorist attacks in India, where 174 people were murdered in cold blood?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081130/ap_on_re_as/as_india_shooting

[Ray]

What does it say about our society that there is more hand wringing, condemnation and soul searching here about the accidental death at a Wal-Mart than there is re: the terrorist attacks in India, where 174 people were murdered in cold blood?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081130/ap_on_re_as/as_india_shooting
Point taken, but I think the key point is that the attacks in India just CONFIRM what we already know about terrorists who are trying to disrupt societies and peace processes. The stampeded at Wal-Mart is more bothersome in a (much smaller) sense because it suggests failings in our OWN characters that we're more likely to deny or want to deny.

-Ray

[93legendti]

Point taken, but I think the key point is that the attacks in India just CONFIRM what we already know about terrorists who are trying to disrupt societies and peace processes. The stampeded at Wal-Mart is more bothersome in a (much smaller) sense because it suggests failings in our OWN characters that we're more likely to deny or want to deny.

-Ray
So we are de-sensitized to devastating terrorist attacks, but a one-off accident is the cause to suggest "failings" of character? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test.


Sometimes an accident is just that.

[paczki]

So we are de-sensitized to devastating terrorist attacks, but a one-off accident is the cause to suggest "failings" of character? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test.


Sometimes an accident is just that.

But why are you -- not you personally but people in general -- sensitive to this and not the other horrific bombings in Kashmir and many other places? I don't mean that as a personal point, just that when we hear that people are being singled out for having American passports we feel differently. Or in my case the pictures of the rabbi and his wife who were like people I know. Why do people respond to this differently than other cases of disaster or cruelty they hardly notice -- say the slaughter of Buddhist monks in Myanmar or countless people dying in the Congo? I didn't see many threads about the Congo.

I think for better or worse people respond to Walmart because they know Walmart. BUT, this mostly holds of all of us, even those who think they are better.

[93legendti]

But why are you -- not you personally but people in general -- sensitive to this and not the other horrific bombings in Kashmir and many other places? I don't mean that as a personal point, just that when we hear that people are being singled out for having American passports we feel differently. Or in my case the pictures of the rabbi and his wife who were like people I know. Why do people respond to this differently than other cases of disaster or cruelty they hardly notice -- say the slaughter of Buddhist monks in Myanmar or countless people dying in the Congo? I didn't see many threads about the Congo.

I think for better or worse people respond to Walmart because they know Walmart. BUT, this mostly holds of all of us, even those who think they are better.

I am sensitive to Kashmir, Congo and Myanmar (or any attacks against innocent people) violence as well. I only pointed to the Mumbai attacks because they are in the news now, as is the Wal-Mart story. I thought the juxtaposition was telling. I don't start threads about these things.

I only responded because I am amazed a one-off accidental death could cause such harsh, self criticism.

I agree, the name "Wal-Mart" is a magnet for many.

All innocent lives lost before their time is up are tragic. The difference between the 2 stories is a one-off and an accident. The other is a part of a war, started long ago, that seeks to destroy any semblance of Western civilization.

Everyone needs to make up their own minds which is deserving of critical introspection.

[Climb01742]

Sometimes an accident is just that.

i agree that, in the main, what happened at walmart was a very sad accident. and what walmart did, with the doorbuster sale, was exactly what many other retailers did.

but to me, the whole thing does smell. perhaps not of criminal negligence but of careless pandering to greed. the whole premise of limited time doorbuster sales is to funnel as many somewhat crazed shoppers through your store in a short amount of time, knowing that probably not everyone will get the "prized" items or savings. it's a recipe for mayhem. the fact that no one has died or been seriously injured before is lucky.

i just think it would be decent of walmart and other stores to have security and some orderly way of handling the crowds their marketing incites. better yet, perhaps all of us, as a society, could find some better balance between crazed consumerism and saving more. does anyone really need beat a store's doors down at 5AM? or run a man over to buy a toy or toaster?

[Climb01742]

Everyone needs to make up their own minds which is deserving of critical introspection.

both deserve introspection i think. the magnitude of one doesn't free the other from meaning. beyond that, what happened in india seems a flaw in the world's civilized fabric, while what happened at the walmart is a flaw in our national fabric. one seems more solvable, at least in the short term. what happened in bombay, the utter senseless randomness and inhumanity of it, seem almost beyond remedy, or of a scale beyond most of us to contribute to s solution. what happened at walmart seems within our power, as americans, to comment on and i hope, begin to change our priorities and actions.

bombay was tragic with a capital T. walmart was lower case sad on many levels.

[chuckroast]

Also sad, and maybe ironic, is that my wife and I went to Target today to pick up a few groceries. There was plenty of gift stuff still on sale and the place was relatively empty. No line at checkout. I'm sure 48 hours prior it was hoppin'. So, where's the rush to buy on the first Friday?

[Ray]

So we are de-sensitized to devastating terrorist attacks, but a one-off accident is the cause to suggest "failings" of character? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test.


Sometimes an accident is just that.
Man, you can find all manner of nefariousness where none exists. Who said anything about not being sensitive to the terrorist attacks? I've been following that incident very closely and thinking about both the horror of the event and all of the international implications it presents. The only place I read about the Walmart incident was here on the Serotta forum. One is obviously horrific on a grand scale and frighteningly intentional - the other is tragic and sad on a very small scale. But what happened in India doesn't make me think about how I could be complicit in such an incident - the Walmart trampling does. Just a difference of personal introspection - not scale, importance, or sensitivity. Apples and oranges, bro.

Just an accident, but one that makes us think about preventing similar in the future. Similar to the trampling at the Who concert in Cincinnati in 1979 - clearly an accident, but one that could have been prevented and, thankfully, has been prevented since.

-Ray

[Viper]

Man, you can find all manner of nefariousness where none exists. Who said anything about not being sensitive to the terrorist attacks? I've been following that incident very closely and thinking about both the horror of the event and all of the international implications it presents. The only place I read about the Walmart incident was here on the Serotta forum. One is obviously horrific on a grand scale and frighteningly intentional - the other is tragic and sad on a very small scale. But what happened in India doesn't make me think about how I could be complicit in such an incident - the Walmart trampling does. Just a difference of personal introspection - not scale, importance, or sensitivity. Apples and oranges, bro.

Just an accident, but one that makes us think about preventing similar in the future. Similar to the trampling at the Who concert in Cincinnati in 1979 - clearly an accident, but one that could have been prevented and, thankfully, has been prevented since.

-Ray

+1

Walmart = showed normal people acting sickly.

India = showed sick people acting normally.

And I hate to be Captain Obvious. Adam, before you slam people's opinions, I've been waiting for you to create a thread regarding a terrorist attack on the ???ish Center in India. In other words, if there is anyone with a myopic, narrow pov, it's not fair for your finger to be pointed towards others.

This is bias and a lame headline atmo, they effectively contradict themselves, all were targeted, tall, short, white, Christian etc:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702365053&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17651

Perhaps Captain Obvious has a valid point. Clearly it was an attack on India:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTk5YzgwZDc3NTliMDAwM2QxOGNjOWRmNTZjZTZmNDY=

People see what they want to see and smell what they want to smell.

[Blue Jays]

Perhaps the solution is to announce 24-hours-per-day shopping starting the Tuesday before the Thanksgiving holiday. Any special sales pricing could then commence on Black Friday morning. Consumers could arrive whenever they wish with minimized fear of crushing. People who really desire a discouted Next bicycle or Wii game system could gather their purchases beforehand and await for the cash registers to reflect the new sales prices.

My solution is to do Christmas shopping via the internet except when it's a favorite single-site local retailer, such as my LBS.

[paczki]

Everyone needs to make up their own minds which is deserving of critical introspection.

True.

[michael white]

I think all the doorbusters should be online only.


If they want to make people want to come in and browse, they should give us those little sausages on toothpicks. I would do it. Only problem with that is you can never find a place to put the toothpick afterward.

[paczki]

I think all the doorbusters should be online only.

I agree. I think all the problems would be solved if live.com would raise it's discount to 40%.

[93legendti]

both deserve introspection i think. the magnitude of one doesn't free the other from meaning. beyond that, what happened in india seems a flaw in the world's civilized fabric, while what happened at the walmart is a flaw in our national fabric. one seems more solvable, at least in the short term. what happened in bombay, the utter senseless randomness and inhumanity of it, seem almost beyond remedy, or of a scale beyond most of us to contribute to s solution. what happened at walmart seems within our power, as americans, to comment on and i hope, begin to change our priorities and actions.

bombay was tragic with a capital T. walmart was lower case sad on many levels.

One death in a Nation of 300 million where sales such as the one in question took place all over the land, to me, while TRAGIC and SAD, is an exception.

My point about the incident is that it doesn't make us "greedy", "pathetic" or anything else mentioned in this thread.

What I DO think is worthy of discussion and introspection is the article I read on Yahoo! last week that, despite tough times, tens of thousands of Americans are still contributing to charity in a meaningful way. As someone deeply involved with charitable giving, this says something about us as Americans.

Are we flawed? You bet. Pathetic? I do not think so.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . sitting in a sushi restaurant or ???ish center in Mumbai. I've never been to Mumbai or either location there and it's hard for me to imagine ever going there. But I have been in Wal-Mart. Most of us have. It's close to home. We can get our minds around it and mull it over because we CAN imagine ourselves possibly having been there. It's close to home. Also, people seem to die disturbingly regularly in terrorist attacks in that part of the world lately. but people don't normally die while working their temp jobs at Wal-Mart. It's unusual, and thus also gets me thinking about it more.

BBD

[paczki]

. . . sitting in a sushi restaurant or ???ish center in Mumbai. I've never been to Mumbai or either location there and it's hard for me to imagine ever going there. But I have been in Wal-Mart. Most of us have. It's close to home. We can get our minds around it and mull it over because we CAN imagine ourselves possibly having been there. It's close to home. Also, people seem to die disturbingly regularly in terrorist attacks in that part of the world lately. but people don't normally die while working their temp jobs at Wal-Mart. It's unusual, and thus also gets me thinking about it more.

BBD

BBD. Is it possible to make it so we can write ???ish without "???" popping out? It kind of weirds me out.

[RPS]

...snipped.....But I have been in Wal-Mart. Most of us have. It's close to home. We can get our minds around it and mull it over because we CAN imagine ourselves possibly having been there. It's close to home. ...snipped.....
BBDI agree that’s a big part of it. However, can’t we use that logic for driving deaths also? About 3,000 Americans just like us die every month or so doing exactly what we do; and many of them on their way to work or back home. Wouldn’t we have to assume that a lot more Walmart employees get killed commuting to work? Considering their numbers I'd expect quite a few do.

Being able to visualize that it happened at a Walmart is part of it, but the uniqueness of the death itself must have a lot to do with it also. If it happened 100 times a day like auto-accident deaths we wouldn’t be discussing it here IMHO.

[93legendti]

I agree that’s a big part of it. However, can’t we use that logic for driving deaths also? About 3,000 Americans just like us die every month or so doing exactly what we do; and many of them on their way to work or back home. Wouldn’t we have to assume that a lot more Walmart employees get killed commuting to work? Considering their numbers I'd expect quite a few do.

Being able to visualize that it happened at a Walmart is part of it, but the uniqueness of the death itself must have a lot to do with it also. If it happened 100 times a day like auto-accident deaths we wouldn’t be discussing it here IMHO.
The discussion is fine. It is the conclusions drawn from 1 death that is troubling to me.

[BumbleBeeDave]

BBD. Is it possible to make it so we can write ???ish without "???" popping out? It kind of weirds me out.

. . . I have no control over those prefs.

BBD

[goonster]

I blame the stupid crowd more than the store.

You can't blame the crowd. It's a crowd. :rolleyes:

"The IQ of a mob is the IQ of its dumbest member divided by the number of mobsters."

- Terry Pratchett -