Help me understand studded tires . . .

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'd like to get some studded tires this winter and at this point I'm thinking it's probably better to get them for my MTB rather than my cross bike. Seems like they would work better because the tires are wider and I can run them at lower pressure. True or not?

Also, are more studs always better? This tire on Nashbar's site has studs along the outer tread, but also seems to have holes in the center tread blocks where more studs could be inserted. Can I buy extra studs to insert? Or maybe not a good idea? I'd much rather go ahead and buy some that already have the studs rather than take all the time to poke screws through some old tires.

Any tips from those with more, uh, "stud experience" would be appreciated!

BBD

[znfdl]

There is only one real brand of studded tires and it's name is Nokian. The more studs are better for icy ruts.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I see what you mean. They're not that much more expensive than the Nashbar one, either . . . $70 a tire.

http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=441&currency=USD

BBD

[Hellhammer]

NOKIAN is the way to go. I had one pair last 5 years as carbide is harder than asphalt and, if I'm not mistaken, the tire itself is made out of some sort of hockey puck like compound. I've tried the models with a crap-ton of studs and while riding all winter with those will make you a beast in the Spring, the Mount and Ground model works on everything from streets to frozen creek beds for me and my special lady. Pay more ONCE. Have fun.

[tuscanyswe]

I would say it has to do with where u ride. Balance between safety and performance. Its really tough biking on those really widestudded tires..

If u ride on pavement i think widerstudded mtb tires will slow you down and ad very little perfomance. I feel nokian are the best winter tires i ever used but thats for pavement and i only had a few diff tires for winter.. will have to check what modell they are.

The ones i have got studs mounted far out on the sides so they will grip when cornering. U dont really need them when going forward anyways.

On a sidenote i went down 3 times or more last winter in curves despite having em :)

[CNY rider]

Nokian is what you want.
And Peter White has written the definitive piece on all things studded.
It's a lengthy tutorial but worth the time to read, and after that you can call him and order up the right set of tires.
Hit it up on his web site.

[tuscanyswe]

well i think we have settled on a brand :D?

Now i ride the W106 modell wich i find really good but i almost never ride anywhere else but in the city in the winter.

The Swedes further north would recomend the nokian w240 as per below. Thats 240 studs!

http://www.cyclecomponents.com/10/sv/artiklar/2-pack-nokian-hakkapeliitta-w240-700x40.html

[chuckred]

I've had some cheaper studded version for a couple of winters now. The tread pattern is sort of like the paddle style tractor tires.

They are a bear to mount and take off - I broke two tire irons and ended up taking them to the shop - where they promptly broke two more. Lots of cursing and swearing... If I ever get a flat with them, I'm either riding or walking, cause changing them in the cold will be virtually impossible!

They are fine on hard pack snow and ice, but don't hold a line very well if the snow gets soft at all. I think as low as you can go with pressure is a good idea as well...

It's certainly fun to have the option!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee291/chuckred/YetiinSnow.jpg

[dauwhe]

As CNY Rider says, Peter White is the man:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

Dave

[hansolo758]

On a related note, do any of you winter commuter afficionados find a difference in ride quality between the various brands of studded tires? I just put on some brand Xs today. Yikes! The tires had a heaviness and buzz to them that I don't quite recall having with the brand Ys I had last year. Both sets were 700 X 35c and allegedly of similar weight, with roughly the same number of studs. I've thought that trying to distinguish ride quality between brands of studded tires might be an exercise in futility, but Peter White seems to imply there could be because of different tire casing materials. So, whaddya think, y'all?

[mschol17]

I'm not sure if the issue of ride quality has ever been brought up regarding studded tires.

I think it's a am I willing to risk a broken collarbone or not issue.

The Nokian Hakka 35 mm are great for roads, but if I was going off road I'd want extra studs on the sides of the tires.

[markie]

Ummm,

PeterWhite is a great resource. I got some Schwalbe snow studs 3 years ago. I have ridden a few thousand miles on them (about 2500) and because the studs are carbide they are still in good shape.

It depends on what you are trying to achieve? I commuted on my tires on mostly clear roads. For my app the tires were great. If the roads were a bit cleaner studs would be superfluous. If the roads had been a bit less tidy I might have preferred more studs and/or the MTB.

As it was for mixed riding and some not fall on my ass protection the schwalbe snow studs did good.

[Johny]

Dave,

I've used Nokian Extreme 296's on my mountain bike for the past five winters including the whole winter commute last year (yes, you know winter means 6 months here...). They rule. Nokian studs are extremely tough and they are worth every penny. I think my tires still look new. BTW, NO flats whatsoever at about 30 psi (I know you're good at fixing flats...but that's the last thing one would like to experience in the cold. BTW, they are very easy to mount on my Mavic rims).

296's are best for trails covered with ice and snow. I've experienced riding on a 2 mile trail completely coverd with ice for a few occasions and the bike is totally under control.

They are probably overkills if not used on trails, and the studs actually make tires slippery on paved roads (don't expect to make a high speed turn without tearing your zebra suit...).

[xjoex]

I have commuted for the last two winters (and this third one so far...) on the same pair of Kenda Klondike 700x35c cross tires on a Bianchi Castro Valley. I ride them on a mixed commute of trails and city streets. They are incredible tires. I think the only benefit of mtn vs cross for better commuting in the winter really comes down to which one has disc brakes, after that they are the same.

Here is a pic of 3 year old klondikes:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Jz4f840sc_c/SSomvydlEoI/AAAAAAAABTc/4Ghy7_oblD8/s400/100_2838.JPG

Last winter I picked up a pair of Nokian Mount and Ground 26" tires for my mtn bike. They are also great. They perform great in snow and icy trails, I can't think of a time they weren't enough for the trails I ride. And these are only the commuter tires!

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h85/boulderjoe/bikes/100_2817.jpg

-Joe

[Ray]

I feel obligated to make this point every time one of these threads comes up. As a public safety message I guess. Studs are PHENOMENAL on ICE. You can ride with near total confidence in situations where you wouldn't be able to stay upright otherwise when its really slick.

BUT

1. They're not that good in snow (unless its a very light coating over glare ice, in which case they help a lot once you get down to the ice layer). The issue in light snow is finding a tire that will either float over it or cut through it and find the surface below. The best riding I've done in up to a couple inches of snow was on very skinny road tires with just a tiny bit of tread. In deep snow, its all sort of futile, maybe short of a Pugsley, which I've never tried. But studs don't help.

2. The key point. Studs help you control your bike in very icy conditions. Studs on your tires don't do ANYTHING to keep the idiot drivers around you under control or keep them from sliding right into your under-control ass. I commuted with studs a lot for one winter and I can't tell you how many times I came close to getting hit by sliding cars. I was under control - they weren't even close to under control. And I live in an area with a relatively limited number of really icy days. I got to the point where I really liked them for riding on very isolated neighborhood roads down to a bagel shop on early Sunday mornings when there were no cars out. And on icy ponds. And just about nowhere else.

I stopped commuting on icy days after that first winter. Life's too short already - no need to make it any shorter.

-Ray

[BumbleBeeDave]

It sounds like our goals would differ. I'm just seeking something I could use for the occasional winter ride to keep from going crazy in spin class. But I certainly see your point about avoiding the out of control drivers. You'd think with the winters we have here that people would know more than they seem to about driving in those conditions. But of course they don't . . . every year during the first storm of the season everyone drives like they have total amnesia until they see somebody ELSE off in the ditch and that little light goes off in their heads that says, "Gee, maybe I should slow down, too!" One year I had the misfortune to be driving back to Albany from NYC on the thruway when the season's first snow hit. This was really heavy, blowing snow. I put it in 4WD and slowed down, but it seemed everybody else just kept zipping past until they started seeing cars off in the ditch. Pretty stupid, but that always seems to be the way it happens.

So I would be doing the bike trail, which gets plowed little if at all, and also trying to fulfill a longstanding fantasy. Every year around here we have one or two storms where you look out the window after nightfall and there's nobody out, the snow is falling, and the streetlights reflecting off the falling flakes seem to give everything a soft glow that would light up the neighborhood streets. You open the front door and it's totally silent outside, all the sound muffled by the falling snow. I've always wanted to head out on an MTB ride in that, just to cruise the neighborhood in the falling snow and have the whole place to myself and enjoy the silence and the beauty of the snow. Cruise around like that for an hour or two, thnen head inside to sit down to a cup of hot chocolate.

Given what others here have said, maybe I don't really need studded tires just to ride in snow. But they would give me an added level of confidence to keep riding all year round.

BBD

[93legendti]

I just got my Nokian 106's...they fit great on my Rapid Tour with long reach brakes...well, the front tire does. The rear tire rubs the brake.... :crap:

Anyone have a recommendation for tire pressure?

[Erik.Lazdins]

.

[Erik.Lazdins]

I was riding across a pedestrian lane on a bridge during a freezing rain storm last year and the look from the driver and passenger sitting in a car that had just nosed into the concrete bridge wall was priceless.

Nokian made it possible.

FWIW I cooked bacon the next morning.

[giordana93]

I'm with Ray regarding the non-necessity of studs in all but icy conditions. if you are really out in the ice, then go for studs, but if it's just for winter fun in the snow, Ray has it right: deeper snow or trails call for a fat mud tire (and with most of your weight over the rear, you get plenty of traction and a great workout: like running in soft sand. the roads around here (Cleveland) get salted so much and enough traffic that even a road tire will do on most days--but with fenders. I love riding in the snow if you can get off the main roads: it's quiet, and you are usually moving slowly enough and working hard enough that it's easy to overheat.
summary: if you really live in an area that sees lots of ice on the roads, go for studs, and don't be cheap, get nok's. but if it's snow and slush, they are overkill and will be heavy, with thick casings and just pigs for 95% of your riding. a good cross or mtb mud tire will get you through almost anything. fenders would be way up further on my list of winter necessities than studs

[markie]

I commute through Winter here in IL.

You are all correct about studs not being any advantage in snow, but when you do not know what is under the snow, the studs supply a lot of confidence. I ride on the sholder a lot and that tends to be compacted car tire tracks that have frozen up. The studs are great for that.

As for the danger factor, well if I got hit by a car in my car I am sure it would hurt, too. The only time I have got hit by a car it was a warm summer morning with perfect visibility....

[Polyglot]

I too do not support studded tires unless you are frequently riding on ice or hard packed snow. On regular snow, or salted roads where you are almost always riding on slush, you are far better off with narrow tires that cut through to the road surface below. On sheer ice, you can also use the old logger's trick of pouring liquid bleach on the rubber, it makes it stick like glue (and destroys the tire at the same)

If you want to commute in really bad conditions, there is nothing like riding a trike.

Check out the photo here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=36775

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . for your comments. I appreciate it!

BBD

[timto]

You mentioned riding paths that get little to no clearing. I've found that with freeze/thaw these type of paths get extremely rutted and icy. If you stay off pavement i'd also vote for studded tires. I commute on hutchinsons and do about 20% rutted trail and then ashphalt in. As others have noted studs and pavement = big work out. It's actually kind of a bummer since you can't get that sense of easy speed on studs but hey - for having fun on uncleared paths you may really appreciate having them. Won't 'hurt' in snow, and will be a benefit in rutted icy conditions.

Careful of those ruts. They'll buck you pretty good. Stay relaxed and light on the bike when you get into that stuff. Ruts form like crazy for me in Calgary due to the chinook conditions.

Also REALLY good lights help you see the 'ice' and ruts coming your way. I finally got a pair of real ones for the commuting and couldnt' be happier. Was pricey but made riding more enjoyable and less scary. They were as important a part of keeping me upright and in control than the studded tires were.

Keep the rubber side down!

tim