OT: soy milk?

[Climb01742]

i've been reading a lot lately about the possible health benefits of reducing the consumption of dairy products. so yesterday i picked up some silk milk and was surprised by how good it tasted. i can certainly see it for cereal. are there any other soy milk brands that folks like and would suggest trying? thanks!

[Ti Designs]

i've been reading a lot lately about the possible health benefits of reducing the consumption of dairy products.

Have you seen the Woody Allen classic Sleeper?

[paczki]

Vitasoy.

[Climb01742]

Have you seen the Woody Allen classic Sleeper?

hey, ed, are you giving "spinning" classes this winter @ WW? this morning is making riding inside seem_slightly_less sucky.

[William]

After my surgery when my Appendix ruptured, I had to take some nasty antibiotics that required that you couldn’t ingest dairy products and hour or two before or after taking it. My wife bought Silk milk for me which I found to be very tasty. I’ve been getting it off and on since then.




William

[gemship]

Stonyfield farm has a line of sweetened and flavored soy yogurts. I really enjoyed them for a while until I had the unfortunate pleasure of buying a few spoiled batches. They claimed all the ingrediants to be organic but I did'nt notice much difference in how I felt so who knows. If it taste good and makes you feel good. Look good then I guess it is good.

I know one thing there's nothing like the bland taste of tofu in a carton. I know it gets better in a colorful stir fry but still.... I'll stick with the chicken and fish.

[victoryfactory]

I highly recommend the Silk Coffee Creamer (regular flavor)
instead of half & half. Great in coffee!
(The Trader Joe's brand is just as good and cheaper if you are near a Joe)

I don't like milk, real or soy, as a drink but I have used soy milk (Silk) with
good results for cooking, like mac and cheese and sauces.

For soy cheese, Go with SoyKaas brand any flavor, melts nicely tastes ok.
But STAY AWAY from their fat free, which sux. Get the regular. Be careful
because the packaging is similar. If you get the wrong brand of fake cheese
in your first attempt it could scar you for life...

Again, Trader Joe has "good" fake cheese too.

VF

[keevon]

I really enjoy Silk.

Soy milk is great at coffee shops. Adds a little more flavor and texture to standard steamed milk drinks... try it in a chai or hot chocolate.

[Cinci Jim]

I'm not going to begin to explain this or take sides on the issue, but it is something you should look into for yourself.

Also I tend to buy the unsweetened soy milk when I buy it - regular seems to be loaded with sugar.

I think the key point is all things in moderation - Soy milk or cow juice!

[victoryfactory]

Another thought on the soy subject.
Watch out for the flavored soy milk, like vanilla.
They taste good but add a ton of sugar.

VF

Whoa, Jim you read my mind.... must be the soy milk.

[Kurt]

is a decent recovery drink, taste is great to me.

[Steelhead]

We buy Silk Low Fat Vanilla and use it on cereal, which is really good. I will occasionally drink a glass of it at lunch with a sandwich, etc.. Whole Foods 365 house brand has a good generic that is a little less expensive, as does Target, Central Market, etc..

I was a big milk drinker as a kid, and I can't remember I had a big cold glass of milk - kinda makes me want one. :)

[daker13]

Ditto on Vanilla silk. None of the other brands taste as good to me.

[csm]

I've tried the soy creamers and didn't care for the taste. maybe another brand would be better.

[moodster]

always uses vanilla or chocolate Silk says it is the best for her and easy to come by, and we both like their french vanilla flavored one for coffee.

[jthurow]

very vanilla silk is my fav. good stuff...

jimi

[jhcakilmer]

I'm not going to begin to explain this or take sides on the issue, but it is something you should look into for yourself.

Also I tend to buy the unsweetened soy milk when I buy it - regular seems to be loaded with sugar.

I think the key point is all things in moderation - Soy milk or cow juice!

I've read several research articles concerning this question. We are "primarily" vegan (can't give up ice cream....tofuti doesn't cut it ;) ) and have kids so I want to make sure, to the best of our ability, that it's safe.

Anyway, there is a lot of contradiction in the studies. Plus some points that I have issue with, is that the research looks at purified genistein (isoflavone in soy, that activates estrogen sensitive receptors) soy products are composed of many different substances, not just pure isoflavones, plus the concentrations that they used were so high you'd have to feed the rats a gallon of soy milk to achieve the same results (which are conflicting).

IMO, anything you can do to lower the intake of animal protein, you'll be lowering your risk of cancer exponentially. Just read the China Study, and you'll be convinced.

We drink Silk, but have also tried to make it ourselves......stick to the Silk!!

[zap]

We tried others but Silk is best.

[Climb01742]

I've read several research articles concerning this question. We are "primarily" vegan (can't give up ice cream....tofuti doesn't cut it ;) ) and have kids so I want to make sure, to the best of our ability, that it's safe.

Anyway, there is a lot of contradiction in the studies. Plus some points that I have issue with, is that the research looks at purified genistein (isoflavone in soy, that activates estrogen sensitive receptors) soy products are composed of many different substances, not just pure isoflavones, plus the concentrations that they used were so high you'd have to feed the rats a gallon of soy milk to achieve the same results (which are conflicting).

IMO, anything you can do to lower the intake of animal protein, you'll be lowering your risk of cancer exponentially. Just read the China Study, and you'll be convinced.

We drink Silk, but have also tried to make it ourselves......stick to the Silk!!

thank you for the reassurance.

[jpw]

...and go for the organic and non-GMO version. Kinder to you and the planet, but of course a little more expensive. A bit like choosing between a Cannondale and a Serotta, but easier.

[John H.]

Look at the list of ingedients in Silk. It is a food-like substance, not food.
Look at the list of ingredients in organic milk- MILK.
I say you should stay with milk in small amounts of cereal unless you know that you are lactose intolerant.

[fiamme red]

I prefer Rice Dream to soy milk in cold cereal. It contains almost no protein, though.

[Joellogicman]

Look at the list of ingedients in Silk. It is a food-like substance, not food.
Look at the list of ingredients in organic milk- MILK.
I say you should stay with milk in small amounts of cereal unless you know that you are lactose intolerant.

Cows will be eating soy and many of the other ingredients in soy milk along with alfalfa and grass. Not sure what benefit having the stuff processed through a cow brings over having it processed at a presumably clean factory.

I never liked milk in any event, so seldom bother with soy milk. Tofu is a good source of protien, especially when you do not have time to prepare legumes or nut products (many people cannot eat nuts as well).

[RPS]

This is going to be a good thread for me because I’m always looking for different ways to eat/drink soy in lieu of milk products. After becoming allergic to milk products over 10 years ago (supposedly the most common adult-onset allergy), I switched to soy substitutes.

When drinking it straight – mostly in summer or warm weather -- it’s always the Chocolate Silk (don’t like the other flavors). However, for hot chocolate I’ve found that heating the Chocolate Silk is too watery -- doesn’t have the right mouth feel -- and it seems to pick up an aftertaste in the heating process. For that regular Silk with added chocolate (and yes loaded with sugar) taste much better.

For soy yogurt I buy WholeSoy Co. brand with added fruit -- peach and blueberry are my favorites. For ice cream treats I get the So Delicious mini sandwiches. Prefer chocolate when I can find them, but vanilla is OK too.

[John H.]

What is up with the whole nut thing? Schools ban peanut butter because 1 kid has allergies. My frozen yogurt shop stopped selling peanut butter yogurt (my fav.) because it was claimed that the residue in the machine could make a kid with allergies sick!
Maybe I drank to much of the Michael Pollan kool-aid but I believe you should eat whole foods rather than manufactued foods whenever possible. Believe me a cows digestive tract is very different from a processing factory.
However, you bring up a good point in that there are many levels of organic and that it is largely a marketing term these days. Milk from a cow that is treated well and roams free in good pastures is very different from a milk from a cow in a cage who is fed organic" corn slop- though they both may be labeled organic.

[Karin Kirk]

I enjoy the chocolate Silk and found it to be an excellent pre- or post- ride drink and goes perfectly with a PB&J sandwich.

However I've given it up due to confusion over the estrogen issue. I haven't read up on it enough to resolve it one way or another, so I stopped buying it.

[Joellogicman]

What is up with the whole nut thing? Schools ban peanut butter because 1 kid has allergies. My frozen yogurt shop stopped selling peanut butter yogurt (my fav.) because it was claimed that the residue in the machine could make a kid with allergies sick!

So I may not be the right person to talk. I think for most people nuts are a very good source of protein and other necessary vitamins. Some nut trees require very little fertilizer and pest treatment as well, making them a very green food source.

However, I understand that some of the people with nut allergies can react very violently to even minimal exposure. Maybe this is something medical science can address. It does seem a shame not to allow anyone access to a very good food because a small number cannot eat it.

[John H.]

Also, the only reason Soy Milk ever made out of the tiny hippie natural food stores is that big farming and food marketing companies realized that the growers needed something to do with all the excess soy they could produce!
Lets get moms and kids to drink it!

[SadieKate]

Yeah, our American cultural dependence on cow's milk should be forcing those 30-50 million Americans to drink it when there are alternatives.

http://www.childrenshospital.org/az/Site1218/mainpageS1218P0.html

And I'm still looking for the food-like substances in plain Silk. If you're referring to Carrageenan, better stop eating cow's milk ice cream and beer, and brushing your teeth.

[jthurow]

here's the ingredient list for Silk...

INGREDIENTS: Organic Soymilk (Filtered Water, Whole Organic Soybeans), Organic Evaporated Cane Juice, Calcium Carbonate, Natural Vanilla Flavor, Sea Salt, Carrageenan, Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D2, Riboflavin (B2), Vitamin B12.

dangerous stuff... ;)

jimi

[RPS]

Milk allergy or milk intolerance?
"It's important to differentiate a true milk allergy from milk protein intolerance or lactose intolerance. Unlike a milk allergy, intolerance doesn't involve the immune system. Milk intolerance causes different symptoms and requires different treatment than does a true milk allergy. Common signs and symptoms of milk protein or lactose intolerance include digestive problems, such as bloating, gas or diarrhea, after consuming milk."

To read more on this subject:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/milk-allergy/DS01008

[morty]

The Silk Plus with Omega-3 and DHA tastes best to me, doesn't have that strong soyish aftertaste like some others. Good stuff.

[RPS]

At a personal level I find it amusing that we can consider drinking the milk of another species as normal behavior. By nature don’t we outgrow drinking our own mother’s milk? What makes the milk intended for a calf more acceptable? :confused:

Granted I'm biased since I can't drink the stuff -- although I'd love to have the many great desserts made from it if I could.

[Ozz]

My favorite "post-ride" recovery drink is Odwalla Vanilla Almondo...basically a vanilla soy milk with some ground up almonds. Very tasty!

Other than that, it is regular old fat-free organic milk from the grocery store for us and our kids.

[Joellogicman]

At a personal level I find it amusing that we can consider drinking the milk of another species as normal behavior. By nature don’t we outgrow drinking our own mother’s milk? What makes the milk intended for a calf more acceptable? :confused:

Granted I'm biased since I can't drink the stuff -- although I'd love to have the many great desserts made from it if I could.

That pretty much swore me off the stuff. On a related matter, think about what eggs are. Yeech.

[Mikej]

http://thedoctorwithin.com/soy/Magic-Bean.php

[jeffg]

My favorite "post-ride" recovery drink is Odwalla Vanilla Almondo...basically a vanilla soy milk with some ground up almonds. Very tasty!

Other than that, it is regular old fat-free organic milk from the grocery store for us and our kids.

Good stuff, the Odwalla! So is milk.

One of my favorite speeches points out that life would not be worth living if not for the gloriously unhygienic things that mankind (particularly the French portion of it) has lovingly created out of the fruits of god's earth.

Translation: You are going to have to pry my raw milk cheeses from my cold dead hands, suckers!

[Joellogicman]

http://thedoctorwithin.com/soy/Magic-Bean.php

I do not think anyone has ever argued that people should survice on soy alone.

The stuff about processing it makes no sense. Yes, you have to ferment soy to make tofu. So what? It is not as though bread grows baked and wrapped in plastic out of the ground. Or beer pours out of a natural spring in Germany.

Soy is a good source of non-animal protien. By combining with nuts, legumes, grains, and vegetables people can live long healthy lives without animal protien. I've been doing it for more than 10 years now. Except that I am generally more thin than most of my friends, colleagues and relatives, I am doing fine.

[RPS]

That pretty much swore me off the stuff. On a related matter, think about what eggs are. Yeech.I’ve thought about that too. However, in nature many animals will actually eat eggs if they find them, right? It’s pretty common for many species.

Besides, do you recall a mature dog walking up to a cow and helping himself to a drink? It’s not that they don’t like milk (all my dogs have); it just seems so unnatural to want it bad enough to milk a cow. :no:

[csm]

if the dog could figure out a way to get milk from the cow......

[Ozz]

Good stuff, the Odwalla! So is milk.

One of my favorite speeches points out that life would not be worth living if not for the gloriously unhygienic things that mankind (particularly the French portion of it) has lovingly created out of the fruits of god's earth.

Translation: You are going to have to pry my raw milk cheeses from my cold dead hands, suckers!
for a real treat....make some oven roasted tomatoes (romas, salted and oiled on a rimmed sheet....225 degrees for 5 hours....add garlic and parsely for last hour) served on crostini with some goat cheese..."Humboldt Fog" is my current favorite.....shown here with some grilled eggplant, zucchini, and onions.

[Joellogicman]

I’ve thought about that too. However, in nature many animals will actually eat eggs if they find them, right? It’s pretty common for many species.

There is an old National Lampoon comic that depicts an anthropomorphic boar eating at a diner when a snake and crocodile come in and sit on either side of it. The croc orders a coffee for itself and a raw egg for the snake.

When the egg arrives, the snake distends its jaw, swallows the egg whole, then crushes it with its body, some shell and egg effluent coming out its mouth.

The boar vomits on its meal and runs out. Then the croc grabs the boar's plate and asks the snake to pass the salt.

[mandasol]

I mix half unsweetened Silk soy milk with half Rice Dream and for me it seems to have the same look, color, taste and consistency as real 2% milk. My wife picked this tip up on a forum and tried it since she knows I happen to like milk but became lactose intolerant as I got older.

[John H.]

Here's the ingedient list for Milk: Milk

[Mikej]

I do not think anyone has ever argued that people should survice on soy alone.

The stuff about processing it makes no sense. Yes, you have to ferment soy to make tofu. So what? It is not as though bread grows baked and wrapped in plastic out of the ground. Or beer pours out of a natural spring in Germany.

Soy is a good source of non-animal protien. By combining with nuts, legumes, grains, and vegetables people can live long healthy lives without animal protien. I've been doing it for more than 10 years now. Except that I am generally more thin than most of my friends, colleagues and relatives, I am doing fine.

I guess I was sort of mislead, I was stupid enough to think if they sell it for consumption, it;s ok. But It's not just crushed soy beans made into a fluid, I think titanium tubing goes through less process at the mill.

[39cross]

... I’ve been getting it off and on since then.
WilliamAre we to infer that's one of the less-well known side effects of soy milk?

[William]

Are we to infer that's one of the less-well known side effects of soy milk?


Only if you drink it from the little Blue cartons.


:banana:
:) :)





William

[Joellogicman]

I guess I was sort of mislead, I was stupid enough to think if they sell it for consumption, it;s ok. But It's not just crushed soy beans made into a fluid, I think titanium tubing goes through less process at the mill.

been part of human diets for centuries.

There are many ways to produce tofu, not just the large scale process reported by the author.

In fact, while the author correctly notes tofu has not been part of the western diet until recently, tofu use in China goes back as far 300 b.c.

Just as you have a choice between buying large brewery industrial process beer or small brewery traditional process beer, so too can one buy industrial process tofu or traditional process.

The author focuses on one and not the other and makes irrational conclusions as a result.

[3cb]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned EdenSoy. I've been a fan for nearly 20 years now. It's sweetened with barley malt, not cane sugar. Here's the ingredients on their vanilla flavoured:

Purified Water, Organic Soybeans, Naturally Malted Organic Wheat and Barley Extract, Vanilla Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Kombu Seaweed, Sea Salt


For me, most unsweetened brands are unpleasant and most sweetened ones (incl. VitaSoy) are too sweet.

[Kirk Pacenti]

http://thedoctorwithin.com/soy/Magic-Bean.php

I substituted most dairy for soy for a couple years but started having strange 'side effects'.

When looking into what might be the cause of brittle finger nails, soy came up as a likely culprit. The list of other health issues that may be linked to soy in ones diet was enough to get me off it for good. When I stopped using any soy products and the symptoms went away in a couple weeks.

PS: imo, marketing and lobby's have a big roll in this. Iirc, it was the soy lobby that demonized coconut oil (a very healthy oil) in the 70's to the point that it's nearly completely absent in food stuffs today.

cheers,

KP

[paczki]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned EdenSoy. I've been a fan for nearly 20 years now. It's sweetened with barley malt, not cane sugar. Here's the ingredients on their vanilla flavoured:

Purified Water, Organic Soybeans, Naturally Malted Organic Wheat and Barley Extract, Vanilla Extract, Calcium Carbonate, Kombu Seaweed, Sea Salt


For me, most unsweetened brands are unpleasant and most sweetened ones (incl. VitaSoy) are too sweet.

VitaSoy also comes unsweetened. I like it best because it doesn't taste very beany and it froths best for a cappucino.

[Joellogicman]

I substituted most dairy for soy for a couple years but started having strange 'side effects'.

When looking into what might be the cause of brittle finger nails, soy came up as a likely culprit. The list of other health issues that may be linked to soy in ones diet was enough to get me off it for good. When I stopped using any soy products and the symptoms went away in a couple weeks.

PS: imo, marketing and lobby's have a big roll in this. Iirc, it was the soy lobby that demonized coconut oil (a very healthy oil) in the 70's to the point that it's nearly completely absent in food stuffs today.

cheers,

KP

of course we all should have been aforewarned, given the impact a soy heavy diet has had on the Chinese, Korean and Japanese populations over the Millennia.

[zap]

That pretty much swore me off the stuff. On a related matter, think about what eggs are. Yeech.

ot but how about this......balut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXucin9iIaE

[fiamme red]

of course we all should have been aforewarned, given the impact a soy heavy diet has had on the Chinese, Korean and Japanese populations over the Millennia.But they didn't drink unfermented soy milk, they ate mostly fermented soy products, like tempeh, miso, soy sauce, fermented tofu, etc. I've heard that there's a difference between fermented and unfermented soy -- it's only the latter that has the bad effects.

[RPS]

I substituted most dairy for soy for a couple years but started having strange 'side effects'.

When looking into what might be the cause of brittle finger nails, soy came up as a likely culprit. The list of other health issues that may be linked to soy in ones diet was enough to get me off it for good. When I stopped using any soy products and the symptoms went away in a couple weeks.Your post should remind us that we are all different; and that what is good for one person may be harmful for another.

Soy is such an example – one of the common ingredients in packaged foods that many people are allergic to. For most it’s healthful, but to a few it isn’t. The same can be said for milk, eggs, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish, wheat, etc….

The fact that soy is bad for you and milk is bad for me doesn’t make either a bad product. It doesn't have to be viewed as a black and white issue.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Your post should remind us that we are all different; and that what is good for one person may be harmful for another.

Soy is such an example – one of the common ingredients in packaged foods that many people are allergic to. For most it’s healthful, but to a few it isn’t. The same can be said for milk, eggs, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish, wheat, etc….

The fact that soy is bad for you and milk is bad for me doesn’t make either a bad product. It doesn't have to be viewed as a black and white issue.

I didn't say it was black and white issue, and don't think I used language that inferred that... well, I certainly didn't intend to...

Having said that and allergies aside, I am coming more and more in alignment with several Doctors and researchers who believe there are no "neutral foods". That is to say, everything you put in your mouth is either useful to the body or is harmful and the body has to process the best it can.

Fwiw, I've also been trying to use the advice of http://www.michaelpollan.com/ , and "Avoid food products that make health claims".

as well as some of his other suggestions:
http://planetgreen.discovery.com/food-health/eat-like-michael-pollan.html

[Larry8]

I couldn't find one that I liked so I started making my own. It's very easy if you buy one of the automatic machines like Soyquick or Soyabella. I buy organic soy beans and organic cane sugar at the local health food store. Soak the beans overnight, load the machine and turn it on kind of like a coffee maker. 15 minutes later it's done, then add sugar to taste. You save money and the fresh made soy milk is much better than the stuff in jugs. My kids love it mixed 50/50 with cows milk.

Hope this helps,

Larry
:beer:

[RPS]

I didn't say it was black and white issue, and don't think I used language that inferred that... well, I certainly didn't intend to...KP, I know you didn't. I used your post only as a good example.

I see it not much different than exercise or many other activities. Where it may be good training and make one rider stronger to do intervals at 400 watts X 5 minutes, it may injure or make another rider sick. Same with foods. What works for one may or may not work best for someone else. :beer:

[Joellogicman]

But they didn't drink unfermented soy milk, they ate mostly fermented soy products, like tempeh, miso, soy sauce, fermented tofu, etc. I've heard that there's a difference between fermented and unfermented soy -- it's only the latter that has the bad effects.

however the linked article the sub-thread is discussing focuses on Tofu in particular and all soy edibles in general.

I go back to the comparison I made yesterday on the topic. The large beer breweries use industrial processes and additives with questionable health effect. That does not mean small brewery beer is bad. I avoid getting my soy products from the large vendors.

I have done without animal products going on ten years now. My latest physical was very good.

[Joellogicman]

ot but how about this......balut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXucin9iIaE

I lived in the Philippines for a while in the late '80s. The many friends I made there are a great bunch. How they can put that stuff in their mouths is just beyond me.

One of those things you just accept as a cultural difference and move forward.

[Joellogicman]

Fwiw, I've also been trying to use the advice of http://www.michaelpollan.com/ , and "Avoid food products that make health claims".

as well as some of his other suggestions:
http://planetgreen.discovery.com/food-health/eat-like-michael-pollan.html

But since I gave up eating animal products, I use soy, along with nuts, legumes and whole grains as a source of protien and amino acids. I do not otherwise think they provide a magical benefit and wonder about those who do.

[flickwet]

I watch what I eat but sometimes indulge in senseless gourmandery, that being said, the greatest breakfast/late nite snack is...a combination of grape nuts, Post Raisin Bran and vanilla or regular Silk, uuuuumm good.

[david]

allergy problems.

i had been trying soy in my coffee for a couple weeks.

then one day on my way home from starbucks i had a terrible allergic reaction.

thought it was pollen or something.

but within half an hour my eyes were swollen almost shut, my jaw went numb and my throat started to close.

traced it back to the soy.

found out that soy is one of the top 10 allergens and that i had just experienced my first anaphalctic (sp?) shock.

can't go near that stuff anymore.

[gt6267a]

i like the unsweetened silk in the green box. it has a nice nutty flavor. makes for great espresso drinks. i think the gf prefers it to milk because of the nutty flavor.