INSIDE 2009 Ergopower

[Dave]

2009 Ultrashift Ergopower

I disassembled a 2009 Centaur 10 speed and a Super Record 11 speed ergopower lever this morning. The idea was to see if the more distinct clicks of the 11 speed lever could be transferred to the 10 speed lever. The Centaur 10 speed levers have a much lighter click that some people don’t like. The hope was that exchanging the diaphragm springs (EC-SR009) might create a firmer click. The bad news is that the clicks appear to be a function of the shape of the detents in the index plates (EC-CE160 and EC-SR013) and not any of the springs in the mechanism.

I also verified the accuracy of Campagnolo’s spare parts PDF during this experiment. What that means is that all of the levers have ball bearings on the main pivot shaft, making the lower level models a real bargain. The only slight difference with Super Record levers is the cutouts in the brake lever and part number EC-SR017 that is made of titanium rather than steel.

See pages 40-44:
http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/documenti/en/Spares09-A-3009.pdf

The good news is that these levers are a lot easier to disassemble and reassemble than the old model. The new design separates repairs into a front section with the brake and finger levers and a rear section, where the indexing mechanism is housed. The only tools required are a T25 torx screwdriver to remove the handlebar band clamp (optional), a 2.5mm hex wrench and a simple hook tool made from a small screwdriver.

I started the disassembly with the thumb button in the smallest cog position. Note that the flat sides of the index shaft are vertical and the ear on the ceramic cable guide is positioned at 3’clock. It’s wise (but not absolutely necessary) to roll back the brake hood, over the thumb button, but the brake hood does not need to be removed. One end of torsion spring EC-SR015 is hooked over a post in the thumb button. The spring must be unhooked by pushing on the end of the spring with a small screwdriver, so the hooked end drops under the post. It will snap back and come to rest against the ergopower body. Unless this spring is being replaced, it does not need to be removed. Unscrew the center fixing bolt and remove the ceramic cable guide. The thumb button is then lifted over the end of the index shaft and slide out to the side. Remove each of the remaining parts from the main index shaft, laying them out in order. Be very careful with part number EC-RE017. It holds two very small coil springs and two 2mm ball bearings. If that part is dropped, you’ll probably be hunting for a long time to find the springs and balls.


I found two minor differences between what is shown in the spare parts PDF and the actual product. EC-SR012 looks like a single washer, but it’s really two thin washers that combine to a .6mm thickness. Part number EC-SR020 consists of a plastic washer resting against the torsion spring and a steel washer in front of it, not one piece, as shown.

Reassembly is just the reverse of the above. About the only thing that needs minor attention is the ratchet teeth on part number EC-RE017 face down, where they can be seen from the underside of the ergopower body.

Below are some pictures of the internal parts, laid out in order, a comparison shot of the 10 and 11 speed index plates and picture of my hook tool.

http://i34.tinypic.com/34yzc06.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/2vir3n9.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/w98948.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/2vklyr9.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/180i9f.jpg

[Viper]

Admirable, nice work on your part. :beer:

[Johny]

You're sick Dave. :)

Thanks for the great info!

[Jack Brunk]

Dave is the campy man for sure. Thanks for all of your insight.

[Dave]

You're sick Dave. :)

Thanks for the great info!

Yes! The levers didn't even belong to me. A local pro has them and plans to run 10 speed next year. He wanted the more distinct click after using Campy Red shifters last year.

[csm]

cool post.
I challenge a shimano-head to do the same!

[fiamme red]

cool post.
I challenge a shimano-head to do the same!Well, I can diassemble my Dura-Ace downtube shifters. Try taking apart 2009 Campagnolo downtube shifters! :rolleyes:

[mickc]

The new Record / Super Record levers are very nice looking, I've seen a set on a bike locally and the levers fit my hands much better than the old shape from the hoods.

However, I just don't want to go 11 speed. Given the steps above could I get a 10 speed disc and retro-fit it into a Super Record / Record lever? Then I'd have a matching new-style lever with my 2007 Record groupset.

Because I'm a snob... (before someone flames me for not just getting the 10 speed Centaur)

:)

[jbrainin]

I've got 10 speed Centaur carbon levers on my Legend and 11 speed Super Record on my Mei Vici. While the Centaur levers don't have the same feel as the Super Record (nor would I expect them to), they are still more than satisfactory in about 400 miles of riding over the past few weeks.

You can certainly buy the 11 speed Record or Super Record ergolevers and spend even more money to change them to 10 speed but, based on my experience so far, I think this is a waste of money in most circumstances. Out of the box, the Centaur carbon levers perform quite satisfactorily and eliminate the need for an 11 to 10 speed ergolever conversion.

(How I'll feel about this all after using them for another 2-3000 miles is, obviously, still to be determined.)

Put another way, if you're going to use the 11 speed Ergolevers, convert everything else to 11 speed…Because you're a snob! :banana:

[SoCalSteve]

cool post.
I challenge a shimano-head to do the same!

There is no reason to ever take apart a Shimano shifter, they dont wear out...

Just sayin'

Steve

[Dave]

Yes, you can change 11 speed levers to 10 speed, once the spare parts become available. It will require a front and rear teardown to make the change.

Having used the 2009 Centaur levers for over a month, I tend to forget about the lettering on the brake lever, knowing that all of the parts are the same as Record.

With Centaur carbon levers now under $200 from Europe, they are a steal.

[Dave]

There is no reason to ever take apart a Shimano shifter, they dont wear out...

Just sayin'

Steve

Sure they do. The pro I did this work for says that he trashed three sets of DA 9 speed levers the first year they came out.

Campy claims that the new design should have a much greater life before any maintenance is required, since there are no G-springs.

Only time will tell how the new DA 7900 shifters holds up. They've change quite a bit too - you can only shift two cogs larger with one sweep of the brake lever and they're still the heaviest product on the market.

[rustychisel]

Ahh, but Shimano heard there were people like you around, Dave, so they designed those STI to not be of interest to you. Now that's smart, eh?

[-dustin]

So...I'm still undecided about my 11 Chorus group. The hoods are great, but the feel through the shifter, for me, leaves something to be desired. I'd say I'm almost disappointed. I loved the mechanical feel of the 10sp shifters...especially after tweaking the G Springs. I don't see any way of stiffening up the shifting in 11sp internals.

Also have D/A 7900 on a bike now, too. Campy wins the ergonomics, but D/A is winning the performance.

[Dave]

So...I'm still undecided about my 11 Chorus group. The hoods are great, but the feel through the shifter, for me, leaves something to be desired. I'd say I'm almost disappointed. I loved the mechanical feel of the 10sp shifters...especially after tweaking the G Springs. I don't see any way of stiffening up the shifting in 11sp internals.

Also have D/A 7900 on a bike now, too. Campy wins the ergonomics, but D/A is winning the performance.

So you like a mechanical feel to the shifters. Does DA 7900 have that?

Personally, I don't feel a huge difference between the 11 speed shifters and the previous design. There's still plenty of click feedback in the right finger lever. The thumb button action requires a little less effort, but has a more distinct click.

I would think that the '09 Centaur shifters would have a right finger lever action that's a lot more like Shimano.

[soulspinner]

Dave, Im glad your doing this stuff and not me. If I didnt break something, it surely wouldnt work after I was done fiddling with it. :p That said, Im on the third set of G springs on my Chorus 10, so its good to hear I dont have to keep doing the rebuild on the 11 speed every few years. Im probably going Chorus again so thanks for the tips....

[caleb]

Yes, you can change 11 speed levers to 10 speed, once the spare parts become available. It will require a front and rear teardown to make the change.


Dave,

Any idea if those conversion parts are available yet?

[Dave]

Dave,

Any idea if those conversion parts are available yet?

There are two parts required to convert an 11 speed lever to 10 speed; the index disc EC-CE160 and the front rachet, EC-CE133. All parts should be interchangeable, but note that the right finger lever will then have the same light click as the Centaur levers. See page 43 of the PDF. It seems like a waste of money to buy more expensive 11 speed ergo levers and convert them to Centaur. You know that Centaur, Record and Chorus are mechanically identical, except for the 10 speed indexing from Centaur.

Maybe these guys can help:

http://www.ochsnerusa-store.com/index.php


http://www.campagnolo.com/repository...s09-A-3009.pdf

[caleb]

There are two parts required to convert an 11 speed lever to 10 speed; the index disc EC-CE160 and the front rachet, EC-CE133. All parts should be interchangeable, but note that the right finger lever will then have the same light click as the Centaur levers. See page 43 of the PDF. It seems like a waste of money to buy more expensive 11 speed ergo levers and convert them to Centaur. You know that Centaur, Record and Chorus are mechanically identical, except for the 10 speed indexing from Centaur.

Maybe these guys can help:

http://www.ochsnerusa-store.com/index.php


http://www.campagnolo.com/repository...s09-A-3009.pdf

Thanks, Dave. The only real benefit is that I imagine I'll make the complete conversion to the 11 speed group in a year or too. If I convert the 11 speed levers "backwards" now, I can simply make them 11 speed again when the time comes.

If I give it a shot I'll report back.

[d_douglas]

in anticipation of a very special new frame that deserves Record, but costs enough to force me to buy Centaur....

Are you saying that 2009 Centaur is the same as the Chorus and Record offerings, but without the final click?

I am thinking of one of those nice new Centaur groups OR a 2008 Chorus group.

[fierte_poser]

in anticipation of a very special new frame that deserves Record, but costs enough to force me to buy Centaur....

Are you saying that 2009 Centaur is the same as the Chorus and Record offerings, but without the final click?

I am thinking of one of those nice new Centaur groups OR a 2008 Chorus group.

Not Dave, but here goes:

Yes, the 2009 Centaur, 2009 Chorus, and 2009 Record shifter internals are identical except for the 10 speed index disc versus the 11 speed index disc. See the side-by-side pic on page 1 of this thread.

Unfortunately, the index disc (specifically the shape of the detents on the index disc) are directly responsible for the 'feel' of the shifts. The 10spd disc has differently shaped detents than the 11spd disc. Thus, the shifts have a different feel at the levers.

Centaur 10spd shifts are apparently lighter than Chorus/Record/Super Record 11spd shifts. There is no part swapping that will change this behavior afaik.

[Dave]

The only shifts that are noticeably different between 10 and 11 speed are the right finger clicks, that are almost imperceptible. It does require quite a bit more sweep to shift a second cog, so I've never accidentally shifted two cogs instead of one. I have been lazy and gave the finger lever an inadequate flick.

[d_douglas]

So, does the Centaur 2009 have the same shift feel as, say, 2006 Chorus or equivalent?

Really, I just love the ergonomics of the new shifters - I don't care about the extra click.



Is it possible to use a pre-2008 10spd group with the new Centaur ergos?

[Dave]

So, does the Centaur 2009 have the same shift feel as, say, 2006 Chorus or equivalent?

Really, I just love the ergonomics of the new shifters - I don't care about the extra click.



Is it possible to use a pre-2008 10spd group with the new Centaur ergos?

Read the earlier posts regarding the shifting. The right finger lever is much lighter on the 2009 model.

All 10 speed components are cross compatible, despite what Campy says about using earlier model FDs with the 2009 shifters.

[thinpin]

I can safely say that the gear cable routing on the 2009 stuff is a right royal pain in the eyetalian's ass. Thanks to Dave for the info in finding the hole :rolleyes: I dislodged a small 1.5mm brass ring from the shifters trying to thread the cables its such a tight fit.
I change my cables every year and now I'm dreading a repeat performance!