Generic carbon frame advice

[MorganColeman]

Hello board members,

I was hoping you could offer me some collective advice. I’ve been riding steel and ti frames for a number of years and am considering the idea of racing on a full carbon frame. I’m completely ignorant on this topic. I realize that the ride characteristics and build quality varies greatly from each manufacturer—so it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison, but as I troll ebay and look at the variety of carbon frames, I’m struck by the similarity in appearance between the no-name brands, which sell new for between $400-$800, and the “name brand” manufacturers, which typically sell for twice that amount. Barring the high-end frames such as Serotta, Parlee, Time, Calfee, Look, etc (the really high end stuff), people have told me that several different brands, such as Scott, Casati, Fuji, Raleigh, Kona, etc. really come from the same manufacturer in Taiwan—that there’s really only a few places that actually build these frames. Am I just as well off buying a generic brand for half that fits just as well. I’m reluctant to invest a lot to experiement.

Any thoughts? Thanks for the advice.

Morgan

[hampco]

...pm sent...

[Lifelover]

Yes - Many companies have thier (insert any material) frames made by the same manufactures overseas.

Yes - You can get a decent quality (ride and looks) frame for well less than $1000.

Yes - It will serve you fine as a race bike.

Yes - To many folks it is worth paying 2 to 10 times as much for a wide varity of reasons.

Whatever you get, ride it like you stole it!

[Pete Serotta]

Generic is good if you know the specs that it was built to, I see HAMPCO is sending you a note...Take his advise. I personally would not race a generic unless I know what it was generic to (NAME it was built for). ALL carbon is far from the same

Racing is a torture (both training miles and races). Additionally a crash is usually in the future (and probably more than one) - this also takes its tool. A crack on a frame is one thing BUT a structural failure is something else and could be vary painful and worse.

Look for a used "name" frame that has a good rep. (or stick with steel/ti/alum/ (Just my two cents from a slow guy)

And yes "ride like you stole it!!!"

[dekindy]

You are going to go from steel and ti to carbon and race. Why? A pound or two in savings cannot possibly be worth it. Stick with a metal frame that is repairable.

[bnewt07]

I'm with Serotta Pete. I'd look for a used Trek/Spesh/Giant carbon frame that was a decent fit and enjoy if I wanted to scratch a 'carbon itch' but was not looking for a big investment.

Reliable build quality and design, no great loss if you sell it on again.

Bruce

[soulspinner]

You are going to go from steel and ti to carbon and race. Why? A pound or two in savings cannot possibly be worth it. Stick with a metal frame that is repairable.

+1-In the short time I competed my metal frame fared better than my body when some beast of an athlete who had no idea how to ride took me down. Metal straightens out,carbon not so much.

[Climb01742]

I'm with Serotta Pete. I'd look for a used Trek/Spesh/Giant carbon frame that was a decent fit and enjoy if I wanted to scratch a 'carbon itch' but was not looking for a big investment.

Reliable build quality and design, no great loss if you sell it on again.

Bruce

i'm with pete and bruce. ebay, brother, ebay. another option might be to find a ridley frame or complete bike new but heavily discounted. i rode a ridley excalibur for awhile as a winter/rain training bike and it was downright decent. ridley's new are a really good value, and if you can find a shop or even cc.com moving out old models to make room for 09s, you might score a real deal (in both senses of the phrase.) good luck.

[A.L.Breguet]

You are going to go from steel and ti to carbon and race. Why? A pound or two in savings cannot possibly be worth it. Stick with a metal frame that is repairable.
++1

You don't need carbon to race , or ti, or aluminum. Please don't fall into the trap.
Ride lots, race lots, it will come.






:banana:

[Peter P.]

Generic is good if you know the specs that it was built to, I see HAMPCO is sending you a note...Take his advise. I personally would not race a generic unless I know what it was generic to (NAME it was built for). ALL carbon is far from the same

Racing is a torture (both training miles and races). Additionally a crash is usually in the future (and probably more than one) - this also takes its tool. A crack on a frame is one thing BUT a structural failure is something else and could be vary painful and worse.

Look for a used "name" frame that has a good rep. (or stick with steel/ti/alum/

Geez; while I was just going to suggest going with a bargain brand, generic carbon frame, Serotta Pete offered A LOT of inciteful opinion on aspects of the issue which never occurred to me. DEFINITELY heed his advice.

All I was going to suggest was to buy a low-cost frame because in racing you WILL crash and most of us can't afford to expend high cost frames.

Of course, finding out which Taiwan factory made which brand name frame can take more work than it's worth. I would definitely consider the brand's ability to quickly service any warranty work needed, (and expect racing to possibly violate any warranty), as well as the local dealer's ability to service that warranty quickly, in your interest.

As to the quality of the frame? Well, the smaller the name, the more difficult it may be discern quality.

I like the idea of buying a used, brand name frame off eBay. You'll likely get a bargain with a good reputation. The only thing missing will be a warranty, which is usually not transferrable.

[Alan]

Ck out the pedal force website which is below. Looks to be what you are looking for. They have many different models to choose from. Good luck. I don't have any personal knowledge of the frames.

http://pedalforce.com/online/index.php?cPath=100088_101740

Alan

[rnhood]

I second the Pedal Force recommendation. Reasonable prices and a nicely made product consistent with other nicely made carbon bikes. The warranty is a bit short at 5 years but, the decent prices make up for this somewhat. A cycling friend has one and loves it. Fuji is a solid recommendation too.

[djg]

1) I dunno.

2) Whatever Hampsten said is likely to be more informative than most (which includes more reliable).

3) There's some very good carbon manufacturing going on in Taiwan but, as Pete said, it pays to know which bike's spec you're buying. That can be hard for a retail shopper to know or discern. As for internet rumors . . . the signal to noise ratio is not necessarily very high.

4) I'm not really sure of the point of taking a shot in the dark once you're pushing 1k for a frameset. You might get something pretty darn good. OTOH, if they stick a mediocre (or poor) fork on the thing you're not going to be that happy, and it's a few hundred bucks for a new one. End-of-season clearance on known quantities from known vendors shouldn't be too much more money. Also, at 1k or so you could be looking at lightly used versions of really fine, proven frames.

5) Have you seen some of the deals floating around on really good carbon wheelsets lately? Reynolds DV46 ULs going for a grand? Etc.? Take your ti or modern steel bike, slap some really nice race wheels and quality tires on the thing, and voila, you've taken a pound off the bike and given it a whole different feel.

6) I'm a little bit of a hypocrite. I noticed that the bikesdirect guy had a winter deal on Vuelta wheels last year, where you had to pre-pay for what would be a taiwanese-manufactured 50 mm carbon wheelset with a spanish name on it a few months later. 399 including delivery, and I thought I'd take a chance -- if I didn't like them, I could probably get most of my money back on the used market and, at the very worst, I'd be out 400 bucks. The thing is, they turned out to be decent wheels.

[mike p]

I also race Al and steel most of the time. I believe morgan probably just wants to test the waters and try carbon. I've had the same urge myself. And if he's like me would rather experiement with 1-2k than 5-8k. Have fun and tell us your what you think after you've ridden it for a while. FWIW many folks in my area race fuji carbon and everyone seems to like them and I don't see any broken fuji frames on the side of the road.

Mike

[1centaur]

What kind of racing? If it's crits, even I, Mr. CF, would buy aluminum. The advantages of carbon are most evident in long races that involve some climbing, IMO. Or in TTs where tube shaping might be worth something. Or in non racing where ride sensations make up a lot of the enjoyment (that's me). When using the bike as a tool and the primary sensation is pain and fatigue, alu hits the spot just fine, I suspect.

[acorn_user]

I don't think Casati belongs on the generics list. If anything, it probably belongs on the high end carbon list with Serotta and those other guys.
http://www.ciclicasati.it

[TAW]

My advice would be to ride what feels the best. I like CF frames, but I have a "generic" Kuota Kharma frame that I had planned on racing, but I just don't like it compared to my other carbon and titanium frames. Part of racing is the feel you get from a bike, and as someone has said earlier, not all carbon is the same. I'd sooner buy a "better" frame used than a "generic" frame new.

Hope this helps. :)

[Waldo]

I second the Pedal Force recommendation. Reasonable prices and a nicely made product consistent with other nicely made carbon bikes. The warranty is a bit short at 5 years but, the decent prices make up for this somewhat. A cycling friend has one and loves it. Fuji is a solid recommendation too.

I agree with these guys. I'm perfectly happy with my Pedal Force. I call it my "lunch bike" (cheap chinese) and ride it in the rain. My nice steel bikes I take out on dry roads.

[MorganColeman]

Hi Serotta Board,
Thanks for your suggestions and insight. Mike was right in pointing out that what I’m really looking to do is test the waters with a carbon frame. Experimentation is fun. I’ve been racing for a while—and more and more they are becoming the preferred frame in the pack. Since I haven’t ridden one, I’m reluctant to poo-poo what I haven’t experienced and I’m not looking to spend a whole lot either. Weight isn’t an issue as my Ti Lemond is pretty light. While trolling ebay it’s difficult to discern the differences between “generic” and high end. Other people have mentioned that most of these frames come from the same manufacturers and are of the same quality—but I’m glad to hear that most of you disagree. Looks like the consensus is that Low end has its risks no matter the material. Thanks for the help!
Morgan

[fourflys]

No one has mentioned the Tawaineese frame manufacturor that makes the majority of carbon (or AL) frames by name...

From all accounts I've read, Giant makes frames for any number of people from Sepcialized to Colnago (CLX frame). From what I understand, Giant actually gets the carbon strands and actually weaves their own sheets. Now, I have no doubt their high end TCR has a better frame tham the low end OCR...

If you really must have carbon, I'd look at used or a Jamis (although Felt has some really nice bikes this season for good value).

That's my noob .02...