you need to update your...

[Ti Designs]

I try to use things way too long - what's the point in buying Dura-Ace if the stuff don't last? Anyway, seems I can no longer buy anything without updating everything else I own, which I really can't afford...

Example, I wanted to be able to listen to my music away from my home - specificly 2 tracks from the Alman Brothers Band album (released in 1979). I have a two year old Mac Mini which has Itunes, so I got myself the an Ipod shuffle 1G (I'll probably never have more than 10 songs on there at any time, so 20G seems like overkill. So I plug it into my computer and it says I have to update my OS, my version of quicktime and my version of Itunes. I have dial-up at home, it would take me 12 hours to download that, and my connection times out every 30 minutes. I had no idea I needed such up to date software to listen 30 year old music...

My bike is the same way, I run a mix of Dura-Ace and Ultegra 9-speed. It still works - really. But clearly I need Serotta version 3.1.6 or later, 'cause my chain is too wide, my bottom bracket sits inside the shell, my seatpost is an old standard and my bars are silver. I'm worried that I'm going to be out on a ride when this little message box pops up telling me I can't use my rear brake without updating the lever...

What ever happend to backwards compatability? I've read the update notes from each release of the ipod, there's absolutly no reason a generic USB driver can't be used (what does the U in USB stand for again???), but nooooooo, we can't have people using older versions. Other than to force people to buy new stuff, is there a point to all this? The new version offers better access to Itunes - wasted on me. It offers tagging from HD radio. Someone out there is going to have to explain the H in HD radio to me before I even think of getting one of those. It offers better organization of music - just what I needed, I have 39 songs in I tunes right now. What it doesn't offer is the ability to buy sheet music...

They do seem to have the numbers right. An Ipod shuffle costs $46, which is less than the cost of cable or DSL and not worth the time wasted to make it work, but just a little too expensive to just throw away. The same could be said for my bike.

[39cross]

Back to the future for you, my lad. Attach a pair of headphones and you're all set.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Sexpistols8track.JPG/270px-Sexpistols8track.JPG

[CNY rider]

It's been a while since I had this issue, but when we had dial up and needed the updates for our OS that were too large to download, you could call Apple or go to an Apple store and they would have the updates on a CD that was reasonably priced.
Give you local Apple store a try.

[paczki]

Don't update it. It's just Apple Store rubbish. It will work just fine without it. Kind of like 9 Speed.

[rwsaunders]

My bikes are stuck in Dura Ace 9 speed.

[deechee]

I'm sure you can turn off auto-update, or just unplug the phone cable. As long as the computer doesn't know you're connected, it won't try to update the OS...

[Ti Designs]

Don't update it. It's just Apple Store rubbish. It will work just fine without it. Kind of like 9 Speed.


No, they,ve gone out of their way to make sure you update the software. I have a Tascam MP3 trainer (it plays MP3s and can slow down or speed up the music without changing the pitch) which connects as flash memory from the USB port - no software needed. I could create play lists if I really wanted to, but I use it to figure out piano phrases, so 1 song at a time is all I need. I drag the file to the flash memory and it works. Not the new Ipod. I would love to just drag a few songs into memory and use it, but without the software upgrade I can't even charge the damn thing. That's what pisses me off about this whole thing. The music I would like to listen to played just fine on a cassette walkman 20 years ago. It probably would have cost them less to use a standard USB memory interface. This is their way of forcing an upgrade, which is going to make what little software I use stop working.

I'm not going to upgrade. My computer does what I want it to do, I'm not willing to change that. It's $50, which is a very small fraction of what my 401K has lost in recent past. The funny thing is that this same thing happened two years ago. Barbara gave me an Ipod, I needed to upgrade my OS and my version of Itunes, nothing worked right after that. I gave the Ipod back to her 'cause I was so frustrated that I would have just smashed the thing. I'm at the same point with the new one. I have about a dozen hammers and a 16 ton press in my shop - I think I know a solution...

[jemoryl]

I can sympathize totally. My friend enjoys a jazz station in Toronto which strams on the web. She asked me the other day to look at the computer she uses because suddenly the streaming was not working. The problem is that they now require the latest version of Adobe Flash (v. 10?). OK, lets try to update the flash player: go to Adobe only to discover that v. 10 only works with OS 10.4 and higher. The machine in question has 10.3.9, and since it is an older machine, an upgrade to 10.5 (the latest) is not recommended. GRRRR. Sorry Apple, but my freaking Windows XP laptop has been less trouble lately....

[Mikej]

I can tell you why proprietary is the new backwards compatability - MONEY, MONEY, AND MONEY. If you had a buisness, wouldn't you want to sell everybody one of each thing you made? I'm sticking w/ 7800.

[Viper]

It's only a matter of time until humans contain microchips which monitor us and offer in a voice of your choice, "Your cholesterol levels are high, please make appointment to see Dr. Carter." It's going to get worse, not better. In the meantime, I cling to Miami Vice and Jimmy Buffett.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I can sympathize totally. My friend enjoys a jazz station in Toronto which strams on the web. She asked me the other day to look at the computer she uses because suddenly the streaming was not working. The problem is that they now require the latest version of Adobe Flash (v. 10?). OK, lets try to update the flash player: go to Adobe only to discover that v. 10 only works with OS 10.4 and higher. The machine in question has 10.3.9, and since it is an older machine, an upgrade to 10.5 (the latest) is not recommended. GRRRR. Sorry Apple, but my freaking Windows XP laptop has been less trouble lately....

. . . just updating to 10.4? I'm betting if you go here you'll either find some info to help or some folks willing to share their knowledge. The same applies to TiDesigns and his iPod problems. No, you won't get an answer instantly, but I've had very good luck on all my software problems simply finding the right place to ask and see what other people know. It may not be the answer you want to hear, but it's generally a reliably accurate one.

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=160

BBD

[Blue Jays]

That is patently OUTRAGEOUS directing someone away from a bicycle forum to discuss software in a software forum!!!
I demand a refund on my membership fees here.

[39cross]

An alternative is to dump the iPod and get something without the onerous membership details, like a Zen or some other less finicky mp3 device.

[jemoryl]

. . . just updating to 10.4? I'm betting if you go here you'll either find some info to help or some folks willing to share their knowledge. The same applies to TiDesigns and his iPod problems. No, you won't get an answer instantly, but I've had very good luck on all my software problems simply finding the right place to ask and see what other people know. It may not be the answer you want to hear, but it's generally a reliably accurate one.

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=160

BBD

Lots of reasons not to update a 700 Mhz G4 iMac with 10.4 or higher: a higher processor speed and more memory will be needed. Already sunk time/money into updating from 10.2.x to 10.3.9 with not too many tangible benefits (needed to do that to run some newer software). We really don't want to sink anymore $$ into an older but perfectly functional machine. The streaming audio was fine before the station had to 'improve' their interface (and is still fine for other sites).

[regularguy412]

I recall a similar thread earlier this year. I have only two words:

Planned Obsolescence

Oh! and I'm an 8-speed STI Luddite.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Ti Designs]

I recall a similar thread earlier this year. I have only two words:

Planned Obsolescence



With the emphasis on planned. It's one thing when Shimano makes the change from 9 speed to 10 speed because there's no way to make one shift on the other. Even so, a 10 speed derailleur will still work with 9 speed levers and cassettes. And let's not forget that the freehub dimentions haven't changed since 8-speed. The Ipod uses flash memory and a USB port, there are plenty of drivers around that would work on anything from OS9 or Windows 98 forward. They were trying to force upgrades (if you can call them that) on people.

[thwart]

Lots of reasons not to update a 700 Mhz G4 iMac with 10.4 or higher: a higher processor speed and more memory will be needed. Not true.

You need a faster processor speed for the latest OS (10.5), but we're running 10.4 just fine on a seven or eight year old (1st generation) 500 Mhz iBook.

I'm no Mac expert (truer words...) but I agree with Dave above. A little time spent on the Apple discussion boards over the years has saved me tons of frustration.

BTW, Apple Software Update (which---I think---automatically opens when you restart or boot up your computer) asks you if you want to update your software, and shows you what it's found that could be updated... you can always say no and exit out. Microsoft... well... :crap:

[rounder]

I dunno. I agree with a lot of what Ti says but not about computers. To me, the new computers do everyting well and are worth the periodic upgrades, but am not too sure about MS Vista. I know that it makes what you like about your existing computer obsolete and costs more money. But most things will work better and faster, and cheaper. To me, that is progress. It is not the same as having an old 7-speed bike that you like with non-indexed shifting and all silver components, and Mavic rims and 501 hubs with aero wheelsmith spokes. Those things can be desirable. To hang onto something comparable to an old 386 IBM with 32 meg of RAM is a waste of time.

[jemoryl]

Not true.

You need a faster processor speed for the latest OS (10.5), but we're running 10.4 just fine on a seven or eight year old (1st generation) 500 Mhz iBook.

I'm no Mac expert (truer words...) but I agree with Dave above. A little time spent on the Apple discussion boards over the years has saved me tons of frustration.

BTW, Apple Software Update (which---I think---automatically opens when you restart or boot up your computer) asks you if you want to update your software, and shows you what it's found that could be updated... you can always say no and exit out. Microsoft... well... :crap:

I got the imprssion that 10.3.9 would be the optimum version for that particular machine from some research I did on the web. While 10.4 would work, the sites I found (which I didn't bookmark) indicated that 10.4 would work best with more memory and perhaps speed. In any case, I have no intention of spending $100 just to get enhanced streaming....

[Ti Designs]

I dunno. I agree with a lot of what Ti says but not about computers. To me, the new computers do everyting well and are worth the periodic upgrades, but am not too sure about MS Vista. I know that it makes what you like about your existing computer obsolete and costs more money. But most things will work better and faster, and cheaper. To me, that is progress. It is not the same as having an old 7-speed bike that you like with non-indexed shifting and all silver components, and Mavic rims and 501 hubs with aero wheelsmith spokes. Those things can be desirable. To hang onto something comparable to an old 386 IBM with 32 meg of RAM is a waste of time.

How did you know I used Mavic 501 hubs???

The computer thing has it's trade-offs. It's basicly processor speed vs. user's speed due to knowing the software. I find with every change of OS there's a few days of pulling what little hair I have left out of my head trying to get things to work which I didn't have to think about with the old crappy computer. There are still things I do on my old OS9 Imac because of this.

If you want to see the worst (or is that best???) example of this, look at small cameras. I've been looking for a small digital camera that I can take with me on rides. Back a few decades ago I would take a camera on rock climbing trips - one of the Minolta SLRs. If you could use the SRT101 you could use the X700 almost without looking. I never had to think to shoot with those cameras. I'm still looking for a digital camera with a manual that's less than 200 pages. I went to a [good] camera store and asked to see a few compact cameras, I asked the guy if there was someone there who really knew the one I was looking at. He said he knew it well, then I watched him fumble with the settings for the next 15 minutes, pushing little buttons and getting into modes he couldn't get back out of. This is progress? I would say it's marketing - what's selling the cameras is the list of features and functions and the number of megapixles which for some reason they feel the need to print in large font on the front of every camera.


I keep returning to the example of the piano. It's a user interface that not even MicroSoft can change (they wanted to add hot keys and note mapping, but the music world said no). The function of the hardware hasn't changed (for some reason my newer digital piano has 8 times the sample memory as my old one), so it's all about making the user better. With computers or any consumer electronics, the assumption is that the user isn't going to get any better, so just keep adding crap to the hardware or software. It's a plan that I hate because I invest time and effort into what I do, I tend to get good at things, then they go changing them...

[rounder]

How did you know I used Mavic 501 hubs???


Actually, didn't know you had them. I have a set of Mavic OP with 501s, but don't use them since my bike was respaced and they no longer fit. I can't get rid of them though because they are so beautiful.

[Ti Designs]

I'll call this one a victory, I returned the ipod to my local Apple store for a refund. At first they wanted to charge me a restocking fee for the open package, but as I never so much as took the earbuds out and the unit itself is at the top of the package, they gave me a full refund (really the 10% restocking fee is all of $5...)

The refund wasn't the good part, it was the reaction of the guys at the "genius bar". Getting servce there is like making reservations at some swanky italian place, so they took my name and e-mail address - why they needed that I'm not sure. When my name was called I produced my Mac Mini and the ipod in question. I don't think they've ever heard of a computer that wasn't hooked up to the internet, but as I use more for sequencing my own music, and all the stuff I want to download to my ipod comes from CDs, there's little point. So, this was probably the first machine they saw that didn't get the updates for itunes and quicktime and the OS. Even they were insulted that an 18 month old computer was so obsolete that it couldn't load the lowest model ipod. And why you need the latest version of quicktime viewer to load an ipod that doesn't have a display had them scratching their heads.