why are cross bikes made of steel?

[vqdriver]

i noticed that a lot of cyclocross bikes in the classifieds and ebay have steel frames. for traditionalists i guess i understand, but i'm talking about a pretty sizable majority of cx bikes, even newer models. for all the mud and foulness cross bikes encounter, wouldn't just about any other material be better? or is there something i'm missing?

[djg]

Most cross frames are aluminum, but it turns out that steel is fine -- strong frames that do the job; you can hose them off after a race, touch up the occasional chip or scratch (remember, if it goes down it's probably on grass or mud, not pavement), and it's fine. For those who want a made-to-measure build, it's definitely one of the more cost-effective ways to go. The fact is, every cross bike needs to be cleaned after a race, so cleaning and going over a steel frame is not necessarily a bigger project.

[David Kirk]

They do ride well and don't beat you up as bad on frozen corral reef type surfaces. I like them.

dave

[haiku]

For those who want a made-to-measure build, it's definitely one of the more cost-effective ways to go.Have you priced Richard Sachs lately?

[Ozz]

Have you priced Richard Sachs lately?
what's the point? Unless you got in line by 8/15/2008 you are SOL for this lifetime.....

Besides....Dave K's bikes are is just as nice. Don't tell anyone or he will raise his prices. :cool:

:beer:

[DfCas]

If you ride an aluminum cross bike for an hour, the answer is clear. Steel just feels better, doesn't beat you up like aluminum, and tracks better thru washboard type stuff.

[Chris]

If you ride an aluminum cross bike for an hour, the answer is clear. Steel just feels better, doesn't beat you up like aluminum, and tracks better thru washboard type stuff.

I would respectfully disagree. There are too many other factors such as tire size/pressure, wheel choice, etc. that makes the material that is holding the parts together irrelevant in regards to the ride. Flame away...

[old fat man]

I would respectfully disagree. There are too many other factors such as tire size/pressure, wheel choice, etc. that makes the material that is holding the parts together irrelevant in regards to the ride. Flame away...

gotta agree with chris here. i've raced steel, aluminum, ti, and scandium cross bikes. with the exception of my aluminum cannondale with disc brakes (first 'cross racing bike i owned), they can all be made stiff or supple depending on factors including wheelset, tire pressure, fork, and cockpit materials.

i don't disagree that steel is nice for cross because it is inherently less bone jarring and it can be custom built for less than ti or carbon but I've had no comfort issues with scandium or titanium when accessorized properly.

[Steelhead]

'cause steel rocks. :D

[Bruce K]

Got one Ti (geared Serotta Concours) and one steel (single speed Zanc).

Love 'em both because they both ride nice.

But I will agree that they are "tunable" by tire choice, wheel choice, and tire pressure.

BK

[sevencyclist]

gotta agree with chris here. i've raced steel, aluminum, ti, and scandium cross bikes. with the exception of my aluminum cannondale with disc brakes (first 'cross racing bike i owned), they can all be made stiff or supple depending on factors including wheelset, tire pressure, fork, and cockpit materials.

i don't disagree that steel is nice for cross because it is inherently less bone jarring and it can be custom built for less than ti or carbon but I've had no comfort issues with scandium or titanium when accessorized properly.

I agree that components/tires/seats makes a difference, but I also believe that there's a huge difference in the design as well as material of the bike. I have had an aluminum Cannondale, a steel Gios, a steel Surly, and a steel Ricahrd Sachs. I can tell you that with the same saddle (B17), and same wheelset at the same pressure (ergott wheels, which is great), the bikes are vastly different. Sachs is by far the smoothest riding of the bunch. A steel bike can ride rough, and can be even worse than aluminum Cannondale, if not designed for smoothness.

If I were to rank the importance of each factor contributing to being beaten up on the forzen dirt: (This is strictly personal opinion!)

Shocks>Pressure>Saddle>Design>Clothing>Grip>Tire>Wheelset>Material>Bar/Stem/Post

[djg]

Have you priced Richard Sachs lately?

Yes, I considered jumping in the very long queue before he closed his books this summer, but balked for reasons that had nothing to do with Richard (whom I like) and really not much to do with his recent prices either.

It's sort of irrelevant. Richard is not just a skilled builder at the top of his game, but one whom many folks who buy made-to-measure bikes regard as the top of the heap. It doesn't really matter if there's no sensible way to rank the relative skills of Richard and a dozen other folks or so who are higly experienced and highly regarded, including our very own Dave Kirk (and Kelly, who is at Serotta if not much on the board, and Spectrum, with Tom making occasional posts) -- Richard made a name for himself, developing his brand through experience and hard work and marketing and he charged prices which the market was more than happy to meet. Indeed, a Sachs may be the exception that proves the rule -- when the books closed, a made-to-measure Sachs going for top of the heap prices, painted by JB, was going for less than the price of many Ti frames and, indeed, stock carbon frames. All sorts of custom or made-to-measure steel frames were less expensive. You know, you can get a CDA or a Kirk or a Spectrum for less. You can get a DeSalvo or a Rock Lobster or a Landshark for a lot less. Etc., etc.

[DfCas]

I would respectfully disagree. There are too many other factors such as tire size/pressure, wheel choice, etc. that makes the material that is holding the parts together irrelevant in regards to the ride. Flame away...


No flames, but I've had 10 or so cross frames in the last 8 years. The aluminum/ scandium ones just felt harsher to me than the ti or steel frames. I have not had carbon, but I'd like to try one.

All have had the same parts and wheels/tires, so I must say that the improvements that come from tire pressure/size/wheels, and cockpit pieces also apply to a cushier frame.

Steel makes sense because it can be inexpensive in stock bikes.

In my area, I would say that most cross bikes are aluminum, particularly among 1st time buyers. Most choose ti or steel for their second cross bike purchase.

[fierte_poser]

To get to the other side. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Butterworth]

Ride feels good. Stiff. Handles predictably. Can have pretty custom paint schemes. Durable. Negligible weight penalty.

[vqdriver]

Ride feels good. Stiff. Handles predictably. Can have pretty custom paint schemes. Durable. Negligible weight penalty.

mostly my question was regarding corrosion. with al, ti, and carbon all far less susceptible to moisture damage, i guess i was just surprised to see steel on bikes that are ostensibly purpose built for the foul conditions in cross.
even in fine weather, cross courses are intentionally mudded up and purposely designed around water crossings. just curious to me is all.

[e-RICHIE]

cross courses are intentionally mudded up and purposely designed around water crossings.


it's illegal to alter the course to produce "conditions" atmo.
mud comes from rain or standing water.
no hoses or the like.
it's nature, or it's nothing.

[maunahaole]

it's illegal to alter the course to produce "conditions" atmo.
mud comes from rain or standing water.
no hoses or the like.
it's nature, or it's nothing.


That said, nothing then prevents the course designer from running the course through a place that is more likely to catch or collect water, correct?

[e-RICHIE]

That said, nothing then prevents the course designer from running the course through a place that is more likely to catch or collect water, correct?
yeah that would be a no brainer atmo.
but most don't.
there's nothing difficult about riding through standing water, esp at speedmo.

[vqdriver]

e-ritchie, point taken but you're focusing on the wrong quote.

thread is re this
surprised to see steel on bikes that are ostensibly purpose built for the foul conditions in cross.

[e-RICHIE]

well this is mostly a curiosity post as mentioned. all of my cross experience is admittedly as an observer but it sure does seem that they love the water and mud. i don't remember hearing of any cross races going thru the gobi.

but that's all beside the point.


'cross is a fall and winter sport, and a decidedly northern and
eastern european one at that atmo. where's this gobi thing?

[Lifelover]

I properly painted and internally treated steel frame in not likely to rust.

I guess you can't argue that it is not more prone to corrosion than the other materials, but just like the weight issue, it just don't matter enough to worry about.

[cadence90]

where's this gobi thing?
It's in

fi’zi:k
Via Vittorio Emanuele 141
Pozzoleone (Vicenza)
36050.....Italia

New/improved latest/greatest saddle, made with genuine Dromedary camel hide (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiEfmsdRI8w&feature=PlayList&p=433D3E36140F59EC&index=0).

[djg]

'cross is a fall and winter sport, and a decidedly northern and
eastern european one at that atmo. where's this gobi thing?

I think it's in Mongolia. Dry.

[gemship]

I'm still waiting for the day I actually see a steel bike and the owner first hand who experiences having to discard said bike due to corrosion, old age.
I think it's safe to say many who own a steel cross bike own other bikes as well and respect their bikes. This means if you keep the steel painted,clean and lube the bike then it should last a lifetime or at least to point you get sick of it. I also see plenty of forty odd year old Raliegh's, Rudges,Hercules 3 speeds holding up just fine where the owners never thought of spraying the inside of the frame. Granted they don't get raced in cross events either but then again cross events aren't held on salty roads so.

[djg]

I'm still waiting for the day I actually see a steel bike and the owner first hand who experiences having to discard said bike due to corrosion, old age.
I think it's safe to say many who own a steel cross bike own other bikes as well and respect their bikes. This means if you keep the steel painted,clean and lube the bike then it should last a lifetime or at least to point you get sick of it. I also see plenty of forty odd year old Raliegh's, Rudges,Hercules 3 speeds holding up just fine where the owners never thought of spraying the inside of the frame. Granted they don't get raced in cross events either but then again cross events aren't held on salty roads so.

Pete, could you please explain the critical forum rule to "gemship"? Repeat after me: we do not question, especially not in print, allegations that a frame "needs" to be replaced because it is "too old."

But, seriously, had I known that e-R would be jumping in I would have let him speak for himself on the Sachs posts.

[gemship]

Pete, could you please explain the critical forum rule to "gemship"? Repeat after me: we do not question, especially not in print, allegations that a frame "needs" to be replaced because it is "too old."

But, seriously, had I known that e-R would be jumping in I would have let him speak for himself on the Sachs posts.


Ha,ha. Well spoken. As a boy with too many toys I should know better :p

[haiku]

when the books closed, a made-to-measure Sachs going for top of the heap prices, painted by JB, was going for less than the price of many Ti frames and, indeed, stock carbon frames.Wasn't meant as a dig. Just pointing (obtusely) out that material choice is just one piece of the pie.

[paczki]

Wasn't meant as dig.
Just that material choice
is piece of the pie.
:banana: