Another fallen star....Who's Next?...Lemond Looking More and More Right

[Zard]

Nina Kraft, the woman's 2004 Ironman World Champion, has admitted to EPO use.

Does anyone notice a trend here? Kraft, Hamilton, Millar, Bonds, Marion Jones, Maurice Greene and a whole host of other WORLD CHAMPION, OLYMPIC MEDALISTS, etc.

In other words, these are all althletes at the very top of their respective sports who have all claimed at one point or another that hard work and natural talent alone are the only reasons for their success. These are the althletes who supposedly have no need to cheat.

Yes, I know that Hamilton's test is inconclusive/flawed and that Jones and Bonds, et al deny the charges (the evidence coming out of the BALCO investigation is not looking good for them) but it is time to start seriously facing the facts and the trends.

In other words, maybe Greg Lemond was right all along??? Even with the brief passage of four months, his comments of this past summer about drug use, in general, and our beloved Lance Armstrong, specifically, no longer seem to be so out of place or motivated purely by jealousy do they? How many other top athletes getting busted or admitting to doping does it take before a critical mass is reached on this topic?

[xcandrew]

Maurice Greene has never tested positive for drugs and is not associated with BALCO, etc., so he shouldn't be on your list.

I'm not surprised about doping developments. It's more in the news now because the enforcement seems to be getting a little better, but the cheating has always been around. As anyone who has grown up and lived life knows, many people will cheat in anything given the opportunity. Some will never cheat (not to say that they are without sin), while others might succumb under pressure or temptation (recognition/glory or money). I don't know about other people here, but I remember in jr. high and high school and to a lesser extent in college there would always be people who would try to copy answers off of me during tests. It was just an accepted method of getting by for many in school. Likewise for doping in sports, I suppose. One time in HS I got in trouble when my German teacher caught someone cheating off me during a test. She asked me why I let I let the other guy cheat off me and I didn't really have an answer. I guess I didn't have a backbone then... I would try to hide my papers from view (the barriers that were set up between students during tests in some classes actually made it much easier look at a neighbor's paper because they would shield you from view), but would give in under pressure of quiet begging. It was just something I grew up with from elementary school on. I tried to discourage it, but it was so much a part of my school experience that I didn't think too much about it. What can you do? Tattling is considered a big no-no. Even in the adult world, whistleblowers are not looked upon kindly. I've seen surveys of kids and I seem to recall that a huge percentage, a large majority I think, admit to cheating on tests in high school at least once. There is plenty of cheating in leadership positions, and we all know examples. One of my high school principals later became superintendent of the school district was highly praised for his work in turning the district around. Later he was found out as a cheat... among other things, he stole funds from my high school while principal and his Stanford Ph.D was a fake.

Doping in sport is really no different. The difference is that it is probably difficult or at least less likely to cheat to the top of your class in school. I'm sure there is cheating even at the lower levels of sport, things like master's cycling, triathlon, and running. I wonder about rock climbing too, since there is no testing, just people trying to climb hard routes to get bragging rights, their photos in the magazines, endorsements, etc. I have seen studies (on-line somewhere) of steriod use among high school students. I think it was in the range of 5 or 10% of all high school students who have used steroids, including a significant number of girls. Maybe most of these kids are football players or kids who just want to look ripped, but that's a lot of kids.

[slowgoing]

We'll probably never know how bad it is/was until a few more people kiss and tell, not only about themselves, but about their entire teams. It's still going to take a while for testing to catch up.

[Big Dan]

For some people on this board a confession is not enough proof... :crap:
There's always more to the story..let's wait... :confused:

[Zard]

Sorry about the Maurice Greene reference if that is incorrect.

The broader point is that this problem clearly does not seem to be contained within a small sub-set of lesser athletes. We are now talking about the top athletes in their respective sports.

I'm wondering if we are moving to the positon that doping is no longer the exception but is actually the rule and that the excuse of "I have never tested positive" sadly, no longer means anything.

[Russell]

Who's next? Davide Rebellin

from cyclingnews

Gerolsteiner's Davide Rebellin has, along with 19 others, been put on trial in the Italian town of Este, Padova, accused of receiving prohibited pharmaceutical substances, and violating the Italian anti-doping and sporting fraud laws. The trial commenced on Wednesday morning, November 10, and most of the accused are cyclists: Dario Acquaroli, Filippo Baldo, Ramon Bianchi, Mauro Busato, Matteo Cacco, Davide Casarotto, Nadia Dandolo (athletics), Gianni Faresin, Andrea Ferrigato, Marco Fincato, Martin Hvastija, Petr Klasa, Fabio Marchesin, Mirco Marini, Selina Martinello (Rebellin's wife), Uros Murn, Gorazd Stangelj, Marco Villa and Matteo Zendron.

The trial was initiated on the basis of phone tapping and video surveillance on the riders in question. During May, 2001, Rebellin was allegedly filmed receiving a syringe containing a banned substance, while at the end of the month, he was allegedly videoed injecting himself with EPO in his hotel room in Bassano del Grappa. Rebellin has always maintained his innocence.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is not that the drug use is there. You can find people cheating with various substances all the way back to the beginning of the Tour and beyond. What is new is that for the first time there seems to be a real effort in cycling from governing bodies to find and eradicate the people who are doing it.

But with that strict enforcement there is always the danger of zealotry and officials who are just a little TOO anxious to find and punish drug cheats just to prove they are doing their jobs. The conviction can, sadly, sometimes become more important than the truth. The announcement and the publicity it generates should not be taken as any sort of evidence of guilt. There are too many competing vested interests.

For those drug cheats who confess or are convicted after due process, then get rid of them and impose long--if not lifetime--bans. However, those who don't succumb to the preconceptions and confess immediately deserve due process to give them a fair chance to defend themselves, no matter how damning the evidence may seem at first glance.

There, now, Big Dan . . . Ya' happy?

BBDave

[Big Dan]

I'm always happy.... :bike:

Livestrong..

[BumbleBeeDave]

I tried to be that way, but ran out of Smiley's "special" brownies! ;)

BBDave

[ejh]

maybe there is not as much doping as you all think. I for one know first hand that sometimes its natural, and not all its wraped up to be. I have a naturly high RBC count. I mean very high, 54-58% and a platlet count of 425,000-475,000. I have to watch every thing I eat, no iron at all, and I need to donate blood every 8 weeks. On the other hand it does let me run at very high altiudes well, but I'm not sure its worth what I have to go threw to stay healty. If any of the athletes think that its worth all the truble, they will never be happy with what they do and will push the envelope too far and pay the consequences.

ejh