OT: Dissing your own product?

[William]

Maybe Climb or another forumite in the Ad biz can shed a little light on this.

The last couple years or so I’ve been pretty amazed at the lengths Gillette is going to in an attempt to diss their own product. It seems that customers who were happy with their Mach 3 razors haven’t been switching in droves to their newer Fusion five bladed razors. I’ve seen print ads, television spots, and even advertising on the back of the Mach 3 packaging basically putting down the old product trying to get folks to switch. I just don’t recall a company spending so much time and effort trying to put down their own product.
When they first came out with the Fusion I received a sample of it and wasn’t all that impressed with it. I felt the Mach 3 worked better, gave a smoother shave, and was much easier to clean out between passes. Very important if you use it to shave your head as well as your face. Not long after that the Mach 3 blades started getting harder to purchase. You had to go up to the front of the store and request them, while all the other brands, fusion as well were in the aisle (at least at the large store chain I purchased them at). It finally got to be such a pain I switched to Schick Quattro which I’ve used for a year or more. Just recently I was at the store and noticed Mach 3’s back on the shelf. Just for the heck of it I bought a package and got reacquainted with it. It works better than the Quattro IMO, especially for shaving my head. I’m going to stick with them as long as I can get them. But even here, Gillette is advertising the Fusion on the back. If they discontinue it, I will switch back to the Schick.

What's up with that?



William

[Viper]

WWQSW?

What Would Quint Shave With?

We know, we already know. He'd sip his moonshine and trim with THIS:

[Ozz]

Shoot William, I had you figured for a straight razor man! ;)

FWIW - I don't get all the "razor wars" stuff with adding as many blades as possible...it's a fraking razor for pete's sake! I hate not being able to find blades cuz my handle I bought two years ago is out of date..... :crap:

[Viper]

Shoot William, I had you figured for a straight razor man! ;)

FWIW - I don't get all the "razor wars" stuff with adding as many blades as possible...it's a fraking razor for pete's sake! I hate not being able to find blades cuz my handle I bought two years ago is out of date..... :crap:

Bro I am a huge fan of the Fusion. I used a straight blade for years. I just wanna know, is William talking about facial shaving, leg shaving or what? :confused:

[William]

Bro I am a huge fan of the Fusion. I used a straight blade for years. I just wanna know, is William talking about facial shaving, leg shaving or what? :confused:

I'll just leave that up to your imagination. ;) Thopugh I will say, I'm with Quint! :beer:




William

[Ozz]

Bro I am a huge fan of the Fusion. ...
I dunno....you shouldn't need batteries to shift gears on your bike, and you certainly don't need them to shave! ;)

Kudos however for putting Thierry Henry in the ad campaign.

:beer:

[Ahneida Ride]

Norelco ...

100's of spinning blades.

[markie]

Short answer

They spend millions of $ on R&D to make a better product and they want you to let you know that it is better.

Long answer:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/oct/04/beauty.mens.razors



Of course shaving you head is an atypical use....

[ergott]

I'm a Fusion user (non battery). I think it's a much better razor. I recently balked at the price of the Fusion replacements and purchased the Mach 3 again (costco has them in bulk). I hated using them. I felt like I was ripping my face off with them. It requires more passes of the razor and clogs easier. The back of the Fusion blades is wide open to force water through.

That's just my opinion.

Hey William, give me your addy, I have a crap load of unused Mach 3 cartridges you can have.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I don't buy blades any more...

https://www.officialtvwebsite.com/saveablade/index.asp?did=644&refcode=sab1a


William,

If your shaving your head, you need one of these...

http://www.headblade.com/


cheers,

KP

[Chief]

Costco sells the package of the non-battery Fusion razor with blades cheaper than the package of the same number of blades sans razor. Go figure! Evidence of the old addage: "Gillette gives you the razor and sells you the blades."

[Ti Designs]

It's new, it must be better... God, I ***HATE*** that concept. I've been using something for years, then they change it. Do they think I'll instantly forget how the old product worked and embrace the new one? If they say it enought times, does it make it true?

Just a few examples: New fuel efficient cars get over 30 MPG, most makers offer an econo-box that gets around 32 MPG. That's slightly worse than my 1988 Honda CRX has been getting. Hmmm, I think I rush out and get something new!

Most tandems come with 10-speed, it's new, it must be better. There's nothing better about 10-speed on a tandem. In 9-speed you can find wide range (XT ot XTR) cassettes with ease, the chains don't break, cable streatch is less of an issue, chainrings don't deflect or snap teeth off under shifting - everything just works.

Vista - need I say more?

[bzbvh5]

1. There is a product on TV $14.99 plus s&h to keep your razor blades sharp and make them last longer. As an added bonus they'll send you a grooming kit of some sort. "Just think of the money you'll save on blades". My question is: Does it work?

2. Just like the rear cogs on a bike, how many blades is enough? I remember when 2 blades was something to treasure. I use the Mach 3 myself. I saw a movie (it was on film and a projector, remember those, was needed for showing) in college about statistical sampling where they asked people to try a 12 blade razor. Seemed a little crazy at the time.

[Michael Maddox]

I have two old safety razors that I inherited from my Dad, plus a couple of straight razors if things get REALLY bad. :)

Although I CAN, I don't shave with a straight, although the old-style metal safety razor is a very good shaver indeed. Plus, you can still get the blades (store brands, no less) for a pittance. I'm as closely shaved as any of you, and I guarantee I don't spend the money on it that you do. In addition, less waste overall and NO plastic whatsoever.

I also use a brush and soap.

Ah, the good old days.

[RPS]

It's new, it must be better... God, I ***HATE*** that concept.True, but do you also feel that way when it actually is better? How else would we advance anything?

[wtex]

Store your blades in alcohol, or whatever keeps them from oxidizing, after use. This keeps the blade from 'micro-rusting' and makes for a smoother shave. And the blades last longer, too.

[William]

William,

If your shaving your head, you need one of these...

http://www.headblade.com/


cheers,

KP

I've used the Headblade, works pretty good as long as you shave your head daily..which I do most of the time. Occasionally I'll skip a day..then it could be a pain. For some reason I had trouble finding replacement blades that would work. Maybe that's different now?

I'm a Fusion user (non battery). I think it's a much better razor. I recently balked at the price of the Fusion replacements and purchased the Mach 3 again (costco has them in bulk). I hated using them. I felt like I was ripping my face off with them. It requires more passes of the razor and clogs easier. The back of the Fusion blades is wide open to force water through.

That's just my opinion.

Hey William, give me your addy, I have a crap load of unused Mach 3 cartridges you can have.

Really? I just pulled the Fusion out of the drawer and compared. The Mach 3 has more space between the blades which should mean less clogging. Now, maybe it's because I shave my head, but the Fusion would clog more on me, then I would have to get a Q-tip and try to free it up when a blast of hot water can't. Could be differences in hair and skin but the Mach 3 works better for me.

Serious? PM'ing you. :)



William

[rpm]

I'm with William. I tried the Fusion and went back to the Mach 3. I find it more manueverable and better in general.

It's best if you also use the world's best shaving cream, part of a line of products developed at the Mayo clinic:

http://www.psico.com/products/vani_shave_cream.cfm

P.S. Dissing your own product--Isn't that what John McCain is doing with regard to George Bush?

[KJMUNC]

Planned Obsolescence

razors and a lot of other CPG products are sticky when it comes to customer preference, meaning people ain't changing when they find something they like unless you downright force them to either through a.) massive advertising that their old product sucks and the new one is better, b.) just stop selling old product and replace with new, or c.) a combination of both.

You can still find older versions of stuff like razors, toothpaste, at CostCo etc., as they don't mind selling old technology when they can sign up the big-box store for a gigantic order of xx million units of deadstock or a special run. In comparison, point of sale space in a store is limited so they are only going to place the new stuff that they want to try and force the up-sell.

[ergott]

Oooops. I was talking about the comparison to the Sensor Excel. I haven't tried a Mach 3 for comparison in a long time.

I did see a disposable version of the Mach 3 in the supermarket just now.

[wc1934]

I agree totally with William - I too was shocked tht they would put down their own product and could not figure out why - thought that maybe they were phasing out the mach 3 and wanted me to try the "new improved version". I have tried many and will continue to use the mach 3 - i did not like quatro at all - maybe more is less.
PS - tired some pre shave oil - best thing I've bought in a while - seems to allow me to use an older blade longer - excellent shave with a new blade.

[ericspin]

Schick tests, or at least they used to, on animals.

I vowed to never use their products as a result.

[rounder]

I have no clue what is the best razor. But there must be something seriously wrong with the marketing of the blades (i use sensor...not because they are necessarily good but just because i happened to want to try one at some point...i would be perfectly happy buying house brand blades). But when you go to the store, the shelves are empty...sign says see customer service desk...but when you go there, they say HUH??. I get the feeling that this is one of those marketing niches that is priced so outrageously, that honest god fearing folks are willing to strip the shelves and stuff them in their pockets just to avoid getting fleeced at the checkout line.

[Ti Designs]

True, but do you also feel that way when it actually is better? How else would we advance anything?


Side by side comparison, or just keeping in mind how the old product worked. I have an old Peter Mooney with late 70's Nuovo Record. Once in a while I take it for a spin. Next to my new(ish) bike the brakes suck, the shifters are nowhere near my hands, those square cranks hit the buckles on my shoes and the whole front end seems kinda flexy. It still runs smoother in a gear than my Dura-Ace 9-speed, and nothing beats the old wide tubulars. There are up sides and down sides to the both old and new - I know that. Anyone making the blanket statement that the new stuff is better is selling something.

My biggest complaint is the need to add complexity. The most expensive part is often to teach the idiot using it how it all works. When I first tried to switch to a digital camera I was blown away by how complex they were and how few people know how to use more than a small fraction of those functions. By comparison, I could use my old full manual camera without having to look at the controls. Try this: Go to a good camera store, pick out a digital camera - not a pro camera or an SLR, one of the compact units. Ask the guy how the manual focus works. Within 5 minutes you'll have the whole staff over there pushing buttons and reading manuals and help guides. This is progress? Another example - Windows. In Win98 I can put a printer on the network in about 30 seconds. With XP it took me two hours on the phone with tech support...

I like things that have very clear functions and do them well without added complexity. There may very well be functions that we find we need - nobody is arguing against STI or Ergo, but when useless functioins get in the way, it's time to look at what came before it. Perhaps the best example of an operating system that hasn't changed and has let users reach great heights is the piano. The same notes have been in the same place for a while. No hot keys, no ergonimic changes, just the same old 88 keys.

[William]

Well, when I thought Gillette would stoop any lower to turn people from the Mach 3 to the Fusion razors they go and top it.

I’ve continued to use the Mach 3 because it seems to be what works best on my face and scalp. Up until recently the blue indicator strip would last three or four shaves (head and face) before the blades would get dull and start cutting/irritating my skin. Lately Gillette has been running new commercials about the “new” Green indicator strip and how it tells you when it’s time to change blades. I purchased some of these “new” Mach 3’s on my last shopping trip because that’s all there was, the Blues were gone.

After one shave of my head and face the green strip was gone and the blade started cutting/irritating my skin. The next razor head did the same thing. Same with the next one. If this company wants you to switch to their Fusion razor so bad, why not just discontinue the Mach 3? Instead, they come out with an inferior product. All they’ve done is piss me off and I’ll be sure to use a Schick product instead. I tried the Fusion and found that it didn’t shave any better, it clogged up easier, and was harder to clean out.

Are there any electric shavers out there that you’ve found to work well (and it’s not owned by Gillette)?

Just wondering,
William

[jblande]

The five blade set-up works better if you use a less dense shaving cream. With all the added blades, the hairs and cream get stuck more easily. I personally prefer the thicker shaving cream to the two added blades. Nothing gets stuck, the blades are less expensive, and the shave is just fine.

[William]

You know, maybe I should go ahead and grow a beard like Chuck?






"Hey Chuck, what do you think??"

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1237811519_chuck-norris-approves.gif






William ;)

[sjbraun]

I switched from a Mach 3 to a Fusion after trying the sample they sent me a few years ago. I had been quite pleased with the Mach 3, but the Fusion performed better.
Initially, I was put off by the price of blades, but then I realized I was using a single blade for 4-6 weeks (face 5/week, legs 2-3/week,) then the cost didn't seem too bad.

Steve

[dancinkozmo]

Just a few examples: New fuel efficient cars get over 30 MPG, most makers offer an econo-box that gets around 32 MPG. That's slightly worse than my 1988 Honda CRX has been getting. Hmmm, I think I rush out and get something new!

this may be true, but tailpipe emissions are massively lower on newer cars than something 20 yrs old.. you may be getting better mileage , but youre polluting much more.

[Blue Jays]

"...this may be true, but tailpipe emissions are massively lower on newer cars than something 20 yrs old.. you may be getting better mileage, but youre polluting much more..."Tailpipe emissions in the shower (especially while one is trying to shave) are brutal!

[nahtnoj]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Dominos pizza.

[goonster]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4238708540_8c1b933e30.jpg

That's a Gillette from the 60's, which are said to be great, but I can also recommend a modern Merkur.

Sources:
WCS (http://westcoastshaving.com)
SBS (http://shoeboxshaving.com)

[lemonlaug]

I'm a pretty big fan of this guy, and I think he would definitely have lots to say about this discussion. Seems pretty clear to me that Gillette has a lot of suits sitting around thinking about how they can sell us the same thing (or better yet--less) for more.

http://blogs.hbr.org/haque/2010/01/welcome_finally_to_today_the.html

[ericspin]

Don't use Schick....last I checked they still tested on live animals. Well. maybe squirrels would be OK.

[daylate$short]

Since when did they start making razors with 3 blades? :confused:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . on my legs, head, and face. The Fusion is just marketing, nothing more. They want to be able to trumpet that "It's NEW!!!" What Bull**** . . .

I also got one of those "Headblade" things for Christmas one year and IMHO while it was cool looking, it didn't do any better job than the Mach 3.

BBD

[bshell]

Funny, I just went through this same scenario with Gillette "Sensor 3" blades. Not to be confused w/ "Mach 3" or "Mach 3 turbo". Different blade attachment, naturally!

Sensor 3 (33.3% better than the Sensor 2!) was the predecessor to the Mach series and I couldn't find the damn blades anywhere. I tried the Mach and didn't like it. Last week I found the rare Sensor 3 in an 8 pack for $20. Really, two and a half bucks per cartridge...***?

Thank heavens for the amazing shopping tool the internet turned out to be. Did a web search and found 'em for $11.50/8-pack w/o tax or shipping and bought a pile of them. Still seems like thievery for what you're getting, to be honest.

Double edge razors ("safety") don't look that safe to me but I might try that next. Also, one more vote for the shave brush and soap route. Way cheap, totally functional, and only one tiny recyclable cardboard box versus those absurd metal/plastic combo cans with caps that go straight to a landfill near you. Forever. :)

[Ozz]

Don't use Schick....last I checked they still tested on live animals. Well. maybe squirrels would be OK.
I thought it was Gillette that tested on live animals? Are you sure?

[goonster]

Double edge razors ("safety") don't look that safe to me
They are quite safe. How safe are they? The TSA specifically permits them in carry-on luggage.

Also, one more vote for the shave brush and soap route.
Make mine a vote for brush and shaving cream. There are many good soaps too, but the good creams (Taylor, Speick) are really nice.

[MattTuck]

I use a brush and shaving cream from The Art of Shaving. (http://www.theartofshaving.com/)

It is great, and actually makes shaving into a semi-enjoyable experience. I do at the moment have a beard, so my shaving consists of a weekly clean up of the neck.

This company, although very good quality, was recently bought by P&G, and sells fancy razors that take gillette blades. So, I don't know how much longer their stuff will be good. They sell both straight and safety razors.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Don't use Schick....last I checked they still tested on live animals. Well. maybe squirrels would be OK.

who is schick? can they shave nuts? do they shave nuts? i prefer nuts smooth. will someone trade schick for slightly used front wheels?

mr. squirrel