OT Best athlete...

[L84dinr]

Hello, Its been awhile since i've posted. Been busy with other hobbies and such.

Anyway, i remember awhile back that there had been a topic about worlds best athletes. Tiger was mentioned and Jordan and Schuey etc... I had meant too mention Valentino Rossi... But never got around to it. Well Valentino Rossi won his Sixth MotoGP Championship. The guy is a true Racer and a talented M/C racer; (he even has tried his hand at Rally and has had a chance to drive one of Schueys Ferrari's). In a sport that doesnt get much recognition here in the land of Nascar. MotoGP races in the rain at speeds that Nascar can only dream of. And the racers have to be very fit to throw a GP bike around the track. Try doing about a thousand push-ups during a race, wearing leather and a helmet. My meager words cant do the sport of Motorcycle racing, or Rossi, true justice. I have much respect for Rossi. A very talented Man.

Thanks for the band width.

[cadence90]

+8 (WCs)!

And, he's Italian; has won 8 WCs at 125, 250, 500 and MotoGP (amazing); has broken all sorts of records; is a super technician; his father Graziano was also a great moto champion; he's extremely charismatic and humorous; his current nickname is "Il Dottore" because of his skill/precision/honor; he looks like Cate Blanchett looking like Bob Dylan :cool:; and he's a great sportsman.
Really a terrrific, funny, talented, classy guy.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7030/valehaydenwh2.jpg...http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/332/valentinorossivscatebladw8.jpg
Congratulating Nicky Hayden on Hayden's '06 MotoGP WC title..........Vale/Cate/Dylan.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7324/2007valentinorossi2ss3.jpg...http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3347/majrossiwheelstandnarrorl4.jpg
In action on his Yamaha............................................ ......................"Hey, Robbie Mc, can you beat this wheelie?"

[William]

+8 (WCs)!

And, he's Italian; has won 8 WCs at 125, 250, 500 and MotoGP (amazing); has broken all sorts of records; is a super technician; his father Graziano was also a great moto champion; he's extremely charismatic and humorous; his current nickname is "Il Dottore" because of his skill/precision/honor; he looks like Cate Blanchett looking like Bob Dylan :cool:; and he's a great sportsman.
Really a terrrific, funny, talented, classy guy.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6/610xoe2.jpg...http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5751/valentinorossivscateblaff9.jpg
Congratulating Nicky Hayden on Hayden's '06 MotoGP WC title..........Vale/Cate/Dylan.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7324/2007valentinorossi2ss3.jpg...http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3347/majrossiwheelstandnarrorl4.jpg
In action on his Yamaha............................................ ......................"Hey, Robbie Mc, can you beat this wheelie?"



Man!! How much of a contact patch do you think he has laying the bike over like that at the speeds they hit...weight of the bike, the rider, and G forces...freakin" amazing! :cool:



William

[cadence90]

Man!! How much of a contact patch do you think he has laying the bike over like that at the speeds they hit...weight of the bike, the rider, and G forces...freakin" amazing! :cool:



William
A very interesting sport, imho: a combination of extremely strong, powerful, heavy, loud machinery and supremely calm, graceful, light, zen-like quiet balance and control.

I love Phloyd's "s-looped" down-hill cornering, but we could all learn a lot from these guys. Complete in-line fluidity. Nothing wasted.

The guy is a monster.

[tuscanyswe]

I agree, you have to admire this guy. I love watching racing, cars motorcycles even bicycles :) His personallity is great and you cant not love him if you watch a season.

However when talking about the best athletes ever i think motorsports has way to few partisipants to even qualify its genre.

Michael jordan and tiger are great players in great sports but Maradona did some amazing things in by far the worlds biggest sport. I dont even like the guy but damn he was a brilliant soccerplayer :/

[maunahaole]

Suggestion to all: Watch the movie "Faster" - in the alternative, watch any Isle of Man TT highlights, including "V four victory" with the footage shot from Joey D.'s tank with a film camera.

[JMerring]

Maradona did some amazing things in by far the worlds biggest sport. I dont even like the guy but damn he was a brilliant soccerplayer :/

yes, the hand of god chief among the amazing things.

[Ti Designs]

I don't see how you can have a real converstation about the best athlete, 'cause there are just so many parameters. Does the sport count - many would argue that golf IS a walk in the park. Does motorsport count? One could argue that guys starting in the back of the grid in Formula 1 are some of the top drivers in the world, but what they're in doesn't stack up to what's at the front of the grid. Does team budget make for a great athlete? And then there's the question of when? Hell, even I've had flashes of brilliance (I once beat Tyler Hamilton in our district road race), but all people see is the other 44 years of disapointment. Do individual events count, or is it just about doing the job day in, day out, season after season? How 'bout effort - does that count for anything? I've watched Pete Rose and Jimmy Connors chase down things with everything they had, knowing there was no way they were going to get there. I've seen top names put in far less effort. And where does luck come into this? Good luck, bad luck, dumb luck, beginners luck - it's a real parameter to any game.

Who's the best athlete? I say it could be the next guy who gets on a bike or a bull (hey, it's a sport) or picks up a bat, club, ball, barbell or poker chip - OK maybe not poker chip... Everyone has that ever so short period of time when they are at the very top of their game, when everything clicks into place and they can do anything or go up against anyone. Then that second passes and they come crashing back down to earth. And that is why I no longer ski.

[Charles M]

+8 (WCs)!

And, he's Italian; has won 8 WCs at 125, 250, 500 and MotoGP (amazing); has broken all sorts of records; is a super technician; his father Graziano was also a great moto champion; he's extremely charismatic and humorous; his current nickname is "Il Dottore" because of his skill/precision/honor; he looks like Cate Blanchett looking like Bob Dylan :cool:; and he's a great sportsman.
Really a terrrific, funny, talented, classy guy.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7030/valehaydenwh2.jpg...http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/332/valentinorossivscatebladw8.jpg
Congratulating Nicky Hayden on Hayden's '06 MotoGP WC title..........Vale/Cate/Dylan.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7324/2007valentinorossi2ss3.jpg...http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3347/majrossiwheelstandnarrorl4.jpg
In action on his Yamaha............................................ ......................"Hey, Robbie Mc, can you beat this wheelie?"


If it were me I would say it would be guys that have both endurance and the ability to move and manipulate their bodies and something else...

Guys like Rossi I love... Obviously.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/kuota/komkredo.jpg

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/tech/kuota/kuducrepsol.jpg


I also like that he and most top end GP guys are avid cyclists...


For me, best athlete isn't simply about being great at your sport. It takes more than physical capacity and mental toughness.

It's guys that need not only finesse, but plain out power and speed, as well as that third tallent.

Guys like James Stewart...

http://k43.pbase.com/g3/97/326897/2/52702255.NewFolder2100EOS1D3D9F9346RickyCarmichael JamesStewartPontiac.jpg

Or guys like this...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_59BaPqRYNj8/Rwn32jcpqaI/AAAAAAAADUg/JY5KvNfZ-Xc/Ronaldinho+012.jpg

Guys that can simply wear you out, and when the time is right, absolutely crush you with speed and power, while diplaying the touch of a butterfly...

[tuscanyswe]

Anyone not seen this btw? Nice goal from a swede.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgqsaDnsEq8

Think hes new contract makes him the best paid soccerplayer wich probably would make him the best paid athlete? But at numbers lilke 32k euros / day its getting hard to keep track since at those earnings its just numbers..

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I agree with TiDesigns. There are just too many parameters. And you also have to consider athletes from the past and how do you compare training methods a century ago with those now? How do you compare Jim Thorpe with Carl Lewis? Babe Ruth with Michael Jordan? Babe Didricksen Zaharias with Jackie Joyner-Kersee?

Too many variables. I'll just say I appreciate the gifts that they all have and leave it at that.

BBD

[wc1934]

"I am the greatest" - Muhammad Ali

[cadence90]

Anyone not seen this btw? Nice goal from a swede.

Think hes new contract makes him the best paid soccerplayer wich probably would make him the best paid athlete? But at numbers lilke 32k euros / day its getting hard to keep track since at those earnings its just numbers..
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:w5NYdunjYpARlM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/FC_Internazionale_logo.png
INTER MILAN BABY!!!


I'm not joking: Everyone here MUST watch this goal Adriano-Ibra: one of the greatest goals ever! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tudCy1cvNtQ)

Ibra definitely IS one of the best players in the world today, but I don't think he is the highest paid player in Italy, let alone the world (look at what Abramovich spends on his Chelsea players and the new Man. City owners are going completely nuts buying players (in fact, maybe Robinho has the current fattest contract)).

Still, the Pallone d'Oro will probably go to either Ibra or Cristiano Ronaldo:

The top 2 candidates (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3894030026413563115).

Nike: C. R. vs. Z. I. (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/99603/cristiano_ronaldo_vs_zlatan_ibrahimovic/)


PS: David Beckham = what a joke.... :rolleyes:

[gasman]

Hello, Its been awhile since i've posted. Been busy with other hobbies and such. Anyway, i remember awhile back that there had been a topic about worlds best athletes. Tiger was mentioned and Jordan and Schuey etc... I had meant too mention Valentino Rossi... But never got around to it. Well Valentino Rossi won his Sixth MotoGP Championship. The guy is a true Racer and a talented M/C racer; (he even has tried his hand at Rally and has had a chance to drive one of Schueys Ferrari's). In a sport that doesnt get much recognition here in the land of Nascar. MotoGP races in the rain at speeds that Nascar can only dream of. And the racers have to be very fit to throw a GP bike around the track. Try doing about a thousand push-ups during a race, wearing leather and a helmet. My meager words cant do the sport of Motorcycle racing, or Rossi, true justice. I have much respect for Rossi. A very talented Man.

Thanks for the band width.

I'm not sure that you can ever say any one person is the greatest athlete but i love watching Moto GP when it is on the telly. Those guys are amazing what they can do-most of us would never be able to get those bikes out of the pits let alone lay down some fast lap times. Those bikes are light and powerful and have all kinds of electronic traction control, etc. Rossi is great in part because he can figure out how to isolate each bike he rides to be set up for each track. OK now the front suspension, change the rear throw etc.

Watch the movie Faster-I have a copy if anybody wants to borrow it.

[Elefantino]

For the me the greatest on two (motorized) wheels will always be King Kenny Roberts. He started as a dirt track rider in California and eventually took on the world and won, the first American to win the 500 World Championship.

http://www.mucchioselvaggio.net/il%20mucchio/Campioni%20d'altri%20tempi/Kenny%20Roberts/Kenny%20Roberts%20cliccabili/Kenny-Roberts-Yamaha.jpg

[William]

As an aside,
didn't Jock Boyer do a stint on the track after bike racing?




William

[Fixed]

http://www.babedidriksonzaharias.org/achievements.cfm
cheers imho

[avalonracing]

I'm not joking: Everyone here MUST watch this goal Adriano-Ibra: one of the greatest goals ever! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tudCy1cvNtQ)


Wow, you must LOVE your soccer! Yes, that was reeeeaaallllly amazing... a guy kicked a ball into a net. :rolleyes:

(No offense, they are fine athletes but if that is as good as it gets I'll stick to cycling.)

[gemship]

how about Ron Jeremy :banana:

[bostondrunk]

For the time being, my vote would go to Craig Alexander.

[alancw3]

greatest athlete? oh a couple of names come to mind:

jim thrope
babe ruth
secretariat
eddie merckx

[L84dinr]

I wasnt saying he is the greatest in the world above all other athletes. What i should have stated is that he is perhaps, IMHO, the greatest at what he does. Race GP motorcycles. BTW, racing a motorcycle doesnt compare to what drivers in race cars do. NOT by a long shot. The F1 drivers and Nascar and Champ car all have a structure around them to help in a collision, (apologies to I think Zanardi who lost his feet in a horrendous accident in Germany, or Dale SR., freak accidents will happen) and also help them stay in place during turns and braking manuveurs. To race a GP motorcycle takes a tremdous amount of strength, dexterity, and endurance to even finish, let alone win. AS i stated in the original thread, try doing thousands of pushups during a race; ok i exaggerate but at least a couple of hundred, against not only your body weight, but the weight of the motorcycle. I have watched Rossi make the transition from 2 stroke to 4 stroke and from Honda to Yamaha and develop an underpowered Yamaha and Have an AMAZING season on said underpowered Yamaha and win the Championship, not by horsepower, but by thinking and developing and using his brain power.

I agree there are great athletes in each sport, be it Hockey, golf, baseball, football, or soccer; (even though i have never watched soccer i will take y'alls word).

And I am not diminishing the Courage or skill that Kenny Roberts had when he raced. Soaking a cast off a broken back to race! Shooting the Michelin Man inflatable in Europe while racing Goodyear tires! Being prolly the only man ever to ride Yamahas TZ 750 Two Stroke Killer bad A$$ motorcycle succesfully! King Kenny was and is a Stud, (no latent homosexuality intended, not that there is anything wrong with that ;>) )

I just wanted to bring to attention, as most every one else had with regard to their personal favorite athlete, based on his or her own ideas of what an athlete is and does to be an ATHLETE, (because lets face it, this has turned out to be more of a personality contest), the accomplishements of Valentino Rossi. GO!!!!

Cheers to The Doctor!

Thanks,

PS sorry got carried away.

[jhcakilmer]

Bo Jackson

All-Star in 2 professional sport
Pro-Bowl
4.12sec 40 (NFLs 4th fastest of all time)
Heisman Trophy
MLB All Star MVP

For any of you that have seen him play, I don't think I need to say anymore......his raw speed, and power were amazing. To bad his career was cut short, he could of put up incredible numbers.

[bostondrunk]

Define 'Athlete'....

IMHO the best Ironman competitiors in the world rank right up there. Not to mention the top TDF riders, etc.

Some fat guy behind the wheel of a car?? Well, I don't consider 'skill' to mean 'athlete'.

Would you consider the best lawn bowler in the world to be a top athlete???

[cadence90]

Wow, you must LOVE your soccer! Yes, that was reeeeaaallllly amazing... a guy kicked a ball into a net. :rolleyes:

(No offense, they are fine athletes but if that is as good as it gets I'll stick to cycling.)
You're joking, right?
"Fine" athletes?
The athleticism, coordination, instinct and precision required to be able to do that are far more difficult, imo, than even the most difficult NFL catch, which is often the result of a programmed play.
In soccer, the beautiful game, one doesn't know what's going to happen until seconds before....

Top cyclists are extraordinary athletes, but really how many truly athletic or even amazing moments occur during a 6:00 hr TdF stage?
One minute's worth? Two at the most?

[cadence90]

greatest athlete? oh a couple of names come to mind:

jim thrope
babe ruth
secretariat
eddie merckx
I'll see your Secretariat, and raise you a Punxsutawney Phil. ;)

[93legendti]

Dual Sports:
Bo Jackson
Deion Sanders
Eric Heiden

One Sport:
Willie Mays
Gordie Howe
Chris Chelios


Multiple Disciplines:
Carl Lewis
Michael Phelps
Eric Heiden
Nadia Comaneci

[jhcakilmer]

You're joking, right?
"Fine" athletes?
The athleticism, coordination, instinct and precision required to be able to do that are far more difficult, imo, than even the most difficult NFL catch, which is often the result of a programmed play.
In soccer, the beautiful game, one doesn't know what's going to happen until seconds before....

Top cyclists are extraordinary athletes, but really how many truly athletic or even amazing moments occur during a 6:00 hr TdF stage?
One minute's worth? Two at the most?

I would agree that soccer is a wonderful sport (which I played in high school and a couple years in college) but I would not consider it as well-rounded or complete as say basketball or american football....since basically half of the body is under-utilized....just IMO.

[gdw]

The athleticism, coordination, instinct and precision required to be able to do that are far more difficult, imo, than even the most difficult NFL catch, which is often the result of a programmed play.
In soccer, the beautiful game, one doesn't know what's going to happen until seconds before....


Soccer is a nice sport for girlie men but how many of those fine athletes would make those plays if they were going to get legally slammed by a defensemen? Not many judging from the wussy theatrics that I've seen. :banana:

[jhcakilmer]

Soccer is a nice sport for girlie men but how many of those fine athletes would make those plays if they were going to get legally slammed by a defensemen? Not many judging from the wussy theatrics that I've seen. :banana:


"Girlie Men"..... obviously you have no appreciation for the sport. They are very different sport, requiring different skill, and aptitudes.

Besides with the amount of doping that occurs in the NFL who needs talent!

Also, I must add that I think people underestimate the ability it takes to hit a 96mph fastball.....it's a full body effort, besides super-computer eye-hand coordination

[gdw]

Zing. Just like like shooting fish in a barrel......

I appreciate the sport and really was impressed by that clip but also know a bit about football and the skills and toughness required to play.


Now if you want to see a real sport watch hockey. To play you have to master skating and then learn how to manipulate a rubber disk with a stick. Hand and eye, foot and eye coordination, balance, speed, boxing and grappling skills, mental and physical toughness.... you have to be an exceptional athlete to make it to the top. Add Gretsky to the list.

[cadence90]

.... ..
.

[jhcakilmer]

I played it too, through college. Which half of your body didn't you use? :confused:

Because I sure as heck used all of mine, even when Ole Mikkelson (a Danish international/All-American playing for UCLA) busted my azz for three goals in one game (we lost 6-0...ouch: the consolation prize was that at least UCLA went on win the NCAA Div. 1 title that year. :cool: ).

;)

Re-read my post, I said "under-utilized".....I had to use much more upper body strength in BB. The great players, don't need a strong upper body......just look at any UEFA player when they take off their shirt.

[Elefantino]

Bo Jackson ...
I work with the only person who played in college with both Bo and Emmitt Smith, and he raves about Bo with this story:

Auburn linemen were having a weight-lifting competition to see who could do the most bench-press reps at a certain weight (the number escapes me) and the huge but struggling linemen could only do single figures.

Bo happened to walk through the weight room as the competition was ongoing and was goaded into trying it.

He walked over, got on the bench, did a quick 10 reps, got back up and left.

Those who saw it say it was the most incredible thing they'd ever seen.

[cadence90]

Re-read my post, I said "under-utilized".....I had to use much more upper body strength in BB. The great players, don't need a strong upper body......just look at any UEFA player when they take off their shirt.
Yes, I know you said "under-utilized".
I guess we both played both sports, and we disagree.

I believe that in both sports it depends on one's position and on how one play the game(s).
There were photos of Cristiano Ronaldo splashed all over the papers this summer, during his one-girl-a-week world tour, and he looked as buff in the upper body as Kobe does.
Leaner, but definitely no 99-pound weakling versus Charles Atlas.
Ibra is very, very fit as well. One does need a strong upper body if one is going up for headers off crosses, against guys like Materazzi.

Now, if you want to talk about the Round Mound of Rebound, that's a different story entirely.

[cadence90]

I work with the only person who played in college with both Bo and Emmitt Smith, and he raves about Bo with this story:

Auburn linemen were having a weight-lifting competition to see who could do the most bench-press reps at a certain weight (the number escapes me) and the huge but struggling linemen could only do single figures.

Bo happened to walk through the weight room as the competition was ongoing and was goaded into trying it.

He walked over, got on the bench, did a quick 10 reps, got back up and left.

Those who saw it say it was the most incredible thing they'd ever seen.Yeah, that guy was something else.

How did your co-worker play with both Bo and E?
Bo was at Auburn from '82-'85; E started at Florida in '87.

Do you know who was physically stronger, Bo or Herschel?
I don't know, but I remember H. W. being incredibly strong as well, and that in addition to his daily workouts every night he would do 500 push-ups, with his little sister sitting on his back.

[jhcakilmer]

Yes, I know you said "under-utilized".
I guess we both played both sports, and we disagree.

I believe that in both sports it depends on one's position and on how one play the game(s).
There were photos of Cristiano Ronaldo splashed all over the papers this summer, during his one-girl-a-week world tour, and he looked as buff in the upper body as Kobe does.
Leaner, but definitely no 99-pound weakling versus Charles Atlas.
Ibra is very, very fit as well. One does need a strong upper body if one is going up for headers off crosses, against guys like Materazzi.

Now, if you want to talk about the Round Mound of Rebound, that's a different story entirely.

I'd say Kobe is the perfect example, and Lebron would be the counter.....they play the same position, but execute differently.

Kobe goes around, over, under......Lebron makes plays while carrying several guys on his back.....but on the other hand, it's amazing to me that Lebron (as big as he is) is still really quick!

I don't think you can find the same examples in the soccer world, since if I may use a evolutionary term, naturally selects for certain body types to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I admire the athleticism and control that they exhibit, but comparing someone like Bo Jackson and any soccer play, and I'm betting Bo is (in their prime) fast, stronger, higher vertical, and more endurance. It's tough to compare across sports, so this is just anecdotal comparisons.

[gdw]

Before Bo there was Jim Brown. He's known for his college and pro football career but is also in the National Lacrosse Hall of Fame. He was an All-American in football and lacrosse at Syracuse and lettered in basketball and track as well.

[saab2000]

One of the real kings of motorcycle racing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/JoeyDunlopTT92.jpg/800px-JoeyDunlopTT92.jpg

[Elefantino]

Yeah, that guy was something else.

How did your co-worker play with both Bo and E?
Bo was at Auburn from '82-'85; E started at Florida in '87.

Do you know who was physically stronger, Bo or Herschel?
I don't know, but I remember H. W. being incredibly strong as well, and that in addition to his daily workouts every night he would do 500 push-ups, with his little sister sitting on his back.
Kicker for Auburn in 1984-85; kicker for Florida 1986-87.

One truism about Bo ... he didn't work out. Not in the strength sense, anyway.

[cadence90]

Kicker for Auburn in 1984-85; kicker for Florida 1986-87.

One truism about Bo ... he didn't work out. Not in the strength sense, anyway.
At least he was never the kicker for Florida State.

[Elefantino]

At least he was never the kicker for Florida State.
Worse. He missed the GWFG against Alabama in the Iron Bowl. Chased out of the state.

Payback: Beat Auburn with a GWFG for Florida in '87. Ran to the Tiger bench and gave Pat Dye the double "you're No. 1"

[William]

One word for ya...

CHUCK!

http://www.chuck-norris.fr/chuck-norris.jpg


:D :D :D :D

[rwsaunders]

Ever bowl a perfect game?

[William]

Ever bowl a perfect game?

Actually, my grandmother has. She was a big time bowler for many years. When she passed away, I ended up with a lot of her bowling memoribila. There are a few 300 patches in there.

Wonderful woman who I miss a lot.

William

[cadence90]

Pretty interesting:

Valentino Rossi test driving a Ferrari F2004 at Mugello in April 2005.
His best lap time was just 3 seconds slower than Michael Schumacher's best....
Vale will be testing the F2008 at Mugello November 21-22, 2008.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4622/rossiferrarixe2.jpg
.
.
.
Michael Schumacher test driving a Ducati (Casey Stoner's) MotoGP at Valencia in November 2007.
His best lap time was just 5 seconds slower than Dani Pedrosa's MotoGP Valencia lap record....

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/599/schumacherducatidm8.jpg
.
.

[tch]

but I remember once (maybe two/three cycles ago) when someone polled the Olympic athletes to see who they thought were the best athletes. Their answer: top tennis players.
- speed/quickness
- power
- eye/hand coordination
- physical skill
- conditioning
- timing
- flexibility
- strategy and tactics
- mental toughness
- endurance (some matches go 3+ hours)
Think about it; how many sports involve not only conditioning and athleticism but also so much skill and mental gymnastics and toughness?

Just my $0.02.

[andy mac]

but I remember once (maybe two/three cycles ago) when someone polled the Olympic athletes to see who they thought were the best athletes. Their answer: top tennis players.
- speed/quickness
- power
- eye/hand coordination
- physical skill
- conditioning
- timing
- flexibility
- strategy and tactics
- mental toughness
- endurance (some matches go 3+ hours)
Think about it; how many sports involve not only conditioning and athleticism but also so much skill and mental gymnastics and toughness?

Just my $0.02.


that's interesting. never thought of them like that before but it's a good insight.

i believe a few olympics ago they tested gold medalists for 'fitness' and found the 50k x-country skiers came out on top.

hard to compare sports but to get the top you need an unbelievable combination of natural ability, hard work, opportunity, good coaches, management and support.

:beer:

[fiamme red]

i believe a few olympics ago they tested gold medalists for 'fitness' and found the 50k x-country skiers came out on top.If athleticism is measured in VO2 max, then I'd agree. But cross-country skiing is a sport that requires very little skill, compared with many other Olympic sports.

If we take both fitness and skill into account, I'd say the best athletes are the decathletes, who need to be trained in ten different events, some of which require great skill (e.g., discus and pole vault).

[William]

Best?
Mental toughness?
Strategy?
Impervious to cold?
Handle a broom like a Swiss clock maker?

Curlers hands down.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/adam_hofstetter/02/15/scorecard.daily/p1_curling.jpg




William :D

[johnnymossville]

While all of those sports are noble choices for best athlete. I'm gonna have to go with mixed pairs synchronized swimming (the guy). That takes concentration.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e194/xnodesign/synchroswim1-9836.jpg

[Chris]

I agree with those who think of it as a the total package type of scenario. Endurance is just one part. I think you have to look at the sports that incorporate as much of all aspects of athleticism into one task or several tasks within an event. To me, cycling is way way way back there. I love it, and it is one of the things that I am actually good at, but that is because you don't have to be a great athlete to do it. I think football, baseball, and golf rank back there as well. In terms of sports where the best at them would probably fare well in other sports based on their athleticism, I think about basketball (which I hate), tennis and soccer. I am sure there are others but those are the ones who come to mind. In all honesty, when I think about the greatest athlete of all time, I think of Bruce Lee. That may seem silly, and I am sure that William can speak more to this than I can, but I don't know of any other athlete who so separated from his peers in the sport, mastered the sport and his body in the same way, and took the sport to a completely different level. Just my $0.02.

[dauwhe]

But cross-country skiing is a sport that requires very little skill, compared with many other Olympic sports.

My impression (from trying to take lessons!) is that learning XC ski technique is quite difficult.

Dave

[johnnymossville]

hmm, in all seriousness. I think the best athlete would be someone that could excel at any sport if given the chance. The Jim Thorpe types. The guys who can do that I believe are people who do the decathlon. Speed, endurance, agility, all-round body strength and mental toughness.

I think you could take a good decathlon athlete and he could excel in just about any other sport with practice. I'm not sure most other athletes are as well rounded. It's fun to think about though.

[fiamme red]

My impression (from trying to take lessons!) is that learning XC ski technique is quite difficult.

DaveTechnique is very important in cross-country skiing, just as it is in cycling, but neither sport requires great skill, compared to sports like gymnastics, diving, tennis, basketball, etc. Actually, XC skiing requires far less skill than cycling, since the latter involves a big element of danger (e.g., doing a team TT in the rain, or descending an Alpine pass).

[dauwhe]

Technique is very important in cross-country skiing, just as it is in cycling, but neither sport requires great skill, compared to sports like gymnastics, diving, tennis, basketball, etc.

Fair enough.

Actually, XC skiing requires far less skill than cycling, since the latter involves a big element of danger (e.g., doing a team TT in the rain, or descending an Alpine pass).

We'll just have to disagree here!

:beer:

Dave

[flickwet]

I don't really care for it myself, but if one considers the physical and emotional demands placed on honest competitors within a match and I mean stuff like the old school Mohammad Ali-Joe Frazier, not fixed, no head gear; endurance, focus speed, coordination, punishment and not least of which pain; almost as tough as cyclocross

[JMerring]

I would agree that soccer is a wonderful sport (which I played in high school and a couple years in college) but I would not consider it as well-rounded or complete as say basketball or american football....since basically half of the body is under-utilized....just IMO.

while a few positions in american football require a well-rounded athlete, the degree of specialization required of most positions (and the tasks actually required of such positions) means that most football players are not well-rounded (and, i'd go so far as to say, not even terribly good 'athletes').

[Ozz]

What ever happened to the "Superstars" competition from the '70's? Where athletes from different sports competed against each other???

IIRC - Kyle Rote Jr. won pretty consistently....(NASL soccer player)....just sayin' ;)

[gdw]

"most football players are not well-rounded (and, i'd go so far as to say, not even terribly good 'athletes')."

Have you ever played the sport? You should do a little research before making lame statements like that. Start by checking the 40 yard sprint times for some of the top linemen. Those "not terribly good athletes" can run mightly fast and put the big hurt on you when they get there.

These are the 40-yard dash times from the 2007 NFL combine in Indianapolis for the defensive linemen.


1. Gaines Adams, Clemson 4.64
2. Jacob Ford ,Central Arkansas 4.65
3. Brian Robison, Texas-Austin 4.67
4. Baraka Atkins, Miami (Fla.) 4.69
5. Tim Crowder, Texas 4.69
6. Jarvis Moss, Florida 4.70
7. C.J. Ah You, Oklahoma 4.70
8. Anthony Spencer, Purdue 4.70
9. Antwan Applewhite, San Diego St. 4.73
10. Justin Hickman, UCLA 4.75
11. Dan Bazuin, Central Michigan 4.77
12. Victor Degrate, Oklahoma St. 4.77
13. Victor Abiamiri, Notre Dame 4.80
14. Claude McBride, Tennessee 4.81
15. Quentin Moses, Georgia 4.82
16. Charles Johnson, Georgia 4.84
17. Abraham Wright, Colorado 4.89
18. Xzavie Jackson, Missouri 4.92
19. Jay Moore, Nebraska 4.92
20. Quinn Pitcock, Ohio St. 4.93

[JMerring]

These are the 40-yard dash times from the 2007 NFL combine in Indianapolis for the defensive linemen.

great, they're big and quick. that makes them good eaters and drug takers. doesn't make them skilled athletes. it definitely doesn't make them "well rounded."

[dauwhe]

Can we please talk about the election, helmets, Campy vs. Shimano, and the Federal Reserve system? Anything but this!

;)

Dave

[gdw]

Did you ever play the sport or know any players beyond the high school level? If so, you wouldn't be making such sweeping dismissive comments. You don't make it very far in the sport unless you're a talented athlete. Size is important but you really have to have the coordination to go with it. If you look into the background of those big old lineman you'll see that most excelled in other sports in high school. Quite a few were talented basketball players before bulking up.

[SoCalSteve]

I don't see how you can have a real converstation about the best athlete, 'cause there are just so many parameters. Does the sport count - many would argue that golf IS a walk in the park. Does motorsport count? One could argue that guys starting in the back of the grid in Formula 1 are some of the top drivers in the world, but what they're in doesn't stack up to what's at the front of the grid. Does team budget make for a great athlete? And then there's the question of when? Hell, even I've had flashes of brilliance (I once beat Tyler Hamilton in our district road race), but all people see is the other 44 years of disapointment. Do individual events count, or is it just about doing the job day in, day out, season after season? How 'bout effort - does that count for anything? I've watched Pete Rose and Jimmy Connors chase down things with everything they had, knowing there was no way they were going to get there. I've seen top names put in far less effort. And where does luck come into this? Good luck, bad luck, dumb luck, beginners luck - it's a real parameter to any game.

Who's the best athlete? I say it could be the next guy who gets on a bike or a bull (hey, it's a sport) or picks up a bat, club, ball, barbell or poker chip - OK maybe not poker chip... Everyone has that ever so short period of time when they are at the very top of their game, when everything clicks into place and they can do anything or go up against anyone. Then that second passes and they come crashing back down to earth. And that is why I no longer ski.

Are you sure you beat him and not his chimeric twin?

Just askin',

Steve

[Ozz]

great, they're big and quick. that makes them good eaters and drug takers. ..."
imho....pro athletes are at the top of the genetic food chain, regardless of sport...the best can be good at anything they try or get training for.

Those "good eaters" to which you refer....watch some tape of Walter Jones playing sometime...in his prime he was 350 lbs and is stronger, faster, lighter on his feet than anyone on the field. He never looked like was working hard....even against the best players.

[malcolm]

http://samson-power.com/ASL/images/Kaz/latspread.jpg

Big Bill Kazmaier 330 lbs 8% body fat, certainly not the best all round athlete but if he could catch them he could probably crush the best all round athlete.

This guy was the lance armstrong of power lifting and eventually the worlds strongest man competition. He won it so many times they quit inviting him.

[fiamme red]

http://samson-power.com/ASL/images/Kaz/latspread.jpg

Big Bill Kazmaier 330 lbs 8% body fat, certainly not the best all round athlete but if he could catch them he could probably crush the best all round athlete.

This guy was the lance armstrong of power lifting and eventually the worlds strongest man competition. He won it so many times they quit inviting him.The question is whether powerlifting is even a sport. Unlike weightlifting, which requires strength but also great skill, powerlifting is all about strength.

[JMerring]

The question is whether powerlifting is even a sport. Unlike weightlifting, which requires strength but also great skill, powerlifting is all about strength.

what skill is there in weightlifting? i'm asking a bona fide question here, even though i'm predisposed to think there is very little.

[malcolm]

Requires a good bit of skill and is most certainly a sport.

[Ozz]

what skill is there in weightlifting? i'm asking a bona fide question here, even though i'm predisposed to think there is very little.
have you ever watched it? If not, watch the guys who don't make the lift...usually it isn't cuz they aren't strong enough, it's cuz of a flaw in their technique. Balance, speed and putting the weight where you can use your legs for the lift. Miss by a little bit and it goes bad fast...practice and dedication, just like every sport.

[fiamme red]

what skill is there in weightlifting? i'm asking a bona fide question here, even though i'm predisposed to think there is very little.I meant Olympic weightlifting, the clean & jerk and snatch. Powerlifting movements (squat, bench press, deadlift) are easy to learn and are a pure test of strength, but the clean & jerk and snatch are very difficult to learn and require great speed and skill.

[erikbrooks]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiamme red
Technique is very important in cross-country skiing, just as it is in cycling, but neither sport requires great skill, compared to sports like gymnastics, diving, tennis, basketball, etc.

Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiamme red
Actually, XC skiing requires far less skill than cycling, since the latter involves a big element of danger (e.g., doing a team TT in the rain, or descending an Alpine pass).


We'll just have to disagree here!

Dave

I'm with dave on this. I race XC ski, CX bike, mtn bike.
the technique for xc ski, especially classic technique, is very subtle and difficult to master. I race at a higher level in XC ski (24th in masters world champs last march) than in bike racing, but I feel that there is more room for improvement there than in my biking skills - and I've raced XC ski for 11 years and with multiple clinics.

[cadence90]

I
.
like
.
this (Hahnenkamm at 130 km/hr) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FA9f-4n2ME&feature=related) +
.
(Val d'Isere gate break-dancer) ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMB_U4R4FP0) guy....

:beer:

[rounder]

I
.
like
.
this (Hahnenkamm at 130 km/hr) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FA9f-4n2ME&feature=related) +
.
(Val d'Isere gate break-dancer) ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMB_U4R4FP0) guy....

:beer:
Awesome, loved the part where he skated off the fence like it was part of his line. There was another famous Kitzbuel run years ago (Franz Klammer??) that was unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GG02RvV0Y

[cadence90]

Awesome, loved the part where he skated off the fence like it was part of his line. There was another famous Kitzbuel run years ago (Franz Klammer??) that was unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GG02RvV0Y
I'll NEVER forget that Klammer DH. Amazing. It sent chills up/down/in/out my spine.


Bode is the the greatest skier in the world today, bar none.

He didn't win either of these 2 races, but this potentially life-saving DH mono-ski trip at Bormio at 120 km/hr (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Faa87IQhk) was pretty insane...and this incredible GS run at Torino 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjMsvSof5O8) is also amazing, especially given that he was most probably sexed- and hung-over both times.... ;)


The Herminator wasn't too shabby either, coming back from this insane crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03LTXfLrTE) within 2 days to win GS and Super-G Golds at the '98 Nagano Olympics, winning the Hahnenkamm SuperG just 2 years after his horrendous near-fatal motorcycle accident, and this amazing 2nd place at the 2008 Kitzbühel, Hahnenkamm Super-G (127 km/hr) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st7rXicbcn8) by only this .08 of 1 second (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxtecK-aCIM). D*mn!!! :cool:


Talk about athletes. All complete studs.

[malcolm]

The question is whether powerlifting is even a sport. Unlike weightlifting, which requires strength but also great skill, powerlifting is all about strength.


I sorta consider anything you compete at a sport.

Powerlifting requires as much skill as cycling. Cycling you have to have enough skill to stay upright or ride in a pack, basically acquired by doing it enough to gain the experience. From there it is just endurance and strength.

Power lifting requires the development of the particular movement efficiently: handling the weight. Then the mental focus and strength to be competitive. Like cycling the skill is in the training and knowing your body and also like cycling and other endurance sports a healthy dose of genetics.

Anyone can ride a bike but you can spend a life time perfecting a pedal stroke. Well developing a bench press or squat is the same.

Athletes at the top of the food chain, I suspect in any sport or endeavor if you will are a different breed and train with an intensity and focus regular folks can't duplicate. I had the good fortune of training around some world class power athletes and they were incredible. It has been many years since I kept up with power lifting and I gather it is a different sport from what it was, it now has much more gear and people tend to specialize in one movement with bench shirts/jackets etc.

Check out this guy, Fred Hatfield. I saw him in the early '80 squat a touch over 880# at a body weight of 220#
http://drsquat.com/index.php

[dauwhe]

Awesome, loved the part where he skated off the fence like it was part of his line. There was another famous Kitzbuel run years ago (Franz Klammer??) that was unbelievable.

I think there's an interesting point here. Many sports require incredible body awareness and control (gymnastics and diving are extreme examples). But in those cases, everything is deliberate, planned, practiced (for the most part). Bode Miller appears to be a genius of improvisational body control--ending up in totally bizarre situations, but having the strength and control to recover. That might not be dissimilar to some sports like basketball or football.

It's absurd to talk about the "best athlete" when there are so many dimensions. Another one that hasn't been discussed much is commitment. These might not fit some definitions of sports, but just imagine the mental toughness and commitment required for the highest levels of alpine climbing, especially solo, or the Vendee Globe (non-stop solo sailboat race around the world). In those cases, you could be days or weeks from safety or help.

Dave

[cadence90]

...Bode Miller appears to be a genius of improvisational body control--ending up in totally bizarre situations, but having the strength and control to recover, but having the strength and control to recover. That might not be dissimilar to some sports like basketball....
There is no single greatest greatest athlete; there are just some incredible Doctors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpTfb9SkKaQ).

[andy mac]

I'll NEVER forget that Klammer DH. Amazing. It sent chills up/down/in/out my spine.


Bode is the the greatest skier in the world today, bar none.

He didn't win either of these 2 races, but this potentially life-saving DH mono-ski trip at Bormio at 120 km/hr (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Faa87IQhk) was pretty insane...and this incredible GS run at Torino 2006 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjMsvSof5O8) is also amazing, especially given that he was most probably sexed- and hung-over both times.... ;)


The Herminator wasn't too shabby either, coming back from this insane crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03LTXfLrTE) within 2 days to win GS and Super-G Golds at the '98 Nagano Olympics, winning the Hahnenkamm SuperG just 2 years after his horrendous near-fatal motorcycle accident, and this amazing 2nd place at the 2008 Kitzbühel, Hahnenkamm Super-G (127 km/hr) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st7rXicbcn8) by only this .08 of 1 second (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxtecK-aCIM). D*mn!!! :cool:


Talk about athletes. All complete studs.

that was klammer's gold medal run at the '76 olympics. after skiing he raced cars for 6 years and won a european touring car championship. speed, timing, picking a line - similar skill set. the top skiers i know are/were all insane in cars.

bode is a freak. he makes that run look so effortless. the first turn where he drifts into it, that's not something they teach. and making up that time in the bottom split, quite remarkable.

[Elefantino]

Awesome, loved the part where he skated off the fence like it was part of his line. There was another famous Kitzbuel run years ago (Franz Klammer??) that was unbelievable.
Klammer's gold-medal run in 1976 at Innsbruck is still the greatest two minutes in sports history. He had to beat the Swiss, Bernhard Russi, who had posted an impossible time, and he had to do it in front of the home crowd, who expected a win. Klammer nearly bought it thrice but nipped Russi at the line by 0.33.

Goose bumps.

[cadence90]

Klammer's gold-medal run in 1976 at Innsbruck is still the greatest two minutes in sports history. He had to beat the Swiss, Bernhard Russi, who had posted an impossible time, and he had to do it in front of the home crowd, who expected a win. Klammer nearly bought it thrice but nipped Russi at the line by 0.33.

Goose bumps.
Agree completely.

He had to, and did, go 120% all out.

Here's a very nice video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tYo6GP4Jic) which underscores all that you mentioned above.

[Elefantino]

Cool. Hadn't seen that one.

Wish ABC/ESPN would post the Bob Beattie version.