F2 Fork

[Sandy]

I just happened to look a little more carefully at the cap that is on top of the spacer that is above the stem. The cap says Reynolds at the top and Ouzo at the bottom. My Ottrott was delivered, last November, with a Reynolds card, giving warranty info, and a card to send back to Reynolds for validation of warranty.

I know my F2 fork is made by Reynolds, and I know that it is similar to an Ouzo Pro fork, but precisely what are the differences between a Serotta F2 fork and an Ouzo Pro fork, besides the cost? Stiffness? Carbon? Dropouts?

Dropout from elementary school,

Sandy

[Serotta_James]

to be a stiffer version of the O2/Ouzo Pro. It uses a specific carbon lay-up designed for increased stiffness for larger riders or those cyclists who want the stiffest fork possible. The F2 also uses titanium dropouts and crown race seat for added durability. The upcoming F3 will use titanium in this manner as well.

Hope this helps.

[Kevan]

your understanding of forks, you're more familiar with the four prong variety is all. :D

[Sandy]

You better be careful of what you say, or else you might need to be spoon fed...... :) :)

Sandy

[Sandy]

Thanks for the info.

Owner of the only F78 fork,

Sandy

[Russ]

....The upcoming F3 will use titanium in this manner as well.

James,

Any idea when the F3 will become available?

[FlaRider]

Russ,

I believe it's available now.

[dbrk]

Not to be disputatious for its own sake but how stiff does a carbon fork have to be nowadays? Granted, back when the first Time Equipe and Kestral EMS forks came out (I mean about 1992/3...), they were noodles and anything but confidence inspiring. But carbon forks now are like titanium tubes: for most of us they are plenty stiff without getting all excited about making things stiffer.

Bike reviewers, industry types, et.al. have taken up the mantra of "stiff" as if this always meant "better." I suppose I just don't see it that way unless you are a racer squeezing every last bit of juice out of the frame. But if you are, you are giving up an awful lot of comfort. The two most comfortable frames I have right now are a Pegoretti Luigino made of NOS Excell tubing from the 1990s and a Ron Cooper made of NOS 531 which might be from before I was born...and that was a long time ago.

dbrk

[Serotta_James]

Good point DBRK. Stiff does not always equal better. That is why we offer the O2, and will offer a less-stiff version of the F3. The idea is to offer a fork that compliments the custom tube sets in our frames. Some riders benefit from a fork that is stiffer than what is commonly found.
It also comes down to personal preference - I like the way the F2 tracks through turns despite the fact I weigh less than 150. Some larger riders prefer the 02...

FYI - we are currently taking orders for F3 models and will begin shipping the first units beginning/middle of December.
I will try to post some of our in-house pics later on for your collective viewing pleasure.

[Serotta_James]

here are some internal protype pics of the F3 in paint...

[weisan]

WOW! It looked so much like the original F-1. Thanks James for posting this.

[mavic1010]

thanks for ruining my day by showing me a pic of the f3....you introduced this fork 2 months too late.... :)

[Sandy]

What does the sixfive stand for on the fork?

1,2,3,4,6,5,.......,



Sandy

[Dekonick]

OooOooohhhh

looks nice.

[Ken Robb]

price??

[Serotta_James]

The F3 comes in various stiffness versions to match the custom tube sets we use in our frames.
F3 6.5 refers to the basic stiffness version which is comparable in lay-up and stiffness to the O2.
The F3 8.5 will be stiffer - about the same stiffness as the current F2.
The F3 10.5 is the clydesdale fork. It comes with a super stiff lay-up and a 450mm steering column.
The 6.5 and 8.5 versions come in multiple rakes from 40mm to 55mm. The 10.5 comes in a 43mm rake.

[Keith A]

James,

If I might ask, who is making the new F3 series of forks? I assume it is Reynolds as this has been Serotta’s partner with the F2.

[Jack Brunk]

I got to see and touch the new F3 fork and the new Nove frame yesterday. The fork is very well made and the new aero design is very nice. We weighed the fork without the cap and it weighed 414 grams.

The Nove is a very nice frame. It felt very light, the welds were spot on and the carbon tubes were beautiful. This frame will do very well within Serotta's frame line. I also want to thank Mike from Serotta who was kind enough to give alot of insight into the Serotta mind set about framebuilding.

Jack

[mavic1010]

Jack:

Where did you see the Nove and the f3??

[Jack Brunk]

Sundance Cycles. Mike from Serotta was there to pick up the demo fleet and he happened to have both the fork and frame. I believe he was leaving either yesterday or today for Arizona.

Jack

[mavic1010]

I hope not..I was planning on going up to sundance this weekend to check out the demo fleet....

[Jack Brunk]

I think Mike was planning on being at the Davis Phinney ride in Tucson this weekend. He was loading up the fleet last night when I was there.

Jack

[deechee]

tad off topic: does anyone have that picture that was on this site of the blue flame ottrott inferno?

[PsyDoc]

Reynolds usually has a fairly distinctive set of dropouts and those on the F3 look quite a bit different...similar to the old Merlin forks that were made by Mizuno.

[mavic1010]

Reynolds makes the forks for serotta...those dropouts look the same as the F1.

As for Serotta packing up the fleet...I know that BlastinBob wanted to go up there as well. The serotta website said through the 14th. Considering the King's Demo days was cancelled and now this...kinda ticks me off....3

The blue/white/silver inferno can be seen in the gallery on the serotta website.

[Jack Brunk]

Mavic,

I checked with Sundance and the demo fleet is gone. I was told that it is headed south to San Diego. They were not sure which shop they were headed to. Sorry.

Jack

[mavic1010]

Well, I guess I don't need to goto Sundance...and it sucks that it says the demo fleet will be there through the 14th...

But anyways...

Was just thinking about the f3....And I don't see the logic of marketing a fork with 3 stiffness grades.

If I want the f3 to be as stiff as an 02, why would I purchase an f3? If I want an f3 to be as stiff as an f2, why would I pick the f3 over the f2 besides for aesthetic reasons (which I'd probably do)...Now I can understand offering the f3 as a fork stiffer than the f2 with longer steerer...

Serotta James...am I missing something here with the new fork??

[Keith A]

Here's a visual comparison between the F1 and F3. They are similar in looks, but certainly not the same.

[slowgoing]

Good job, Keith.

[Sandy]

A great job! Pictures really are worth a thousand words (with the exception of Kevan). :) :)


Sandy

[Serotta_James]

The F2 will no longer be available in a few weeks.
The F3 offers a better ride quality and durability than the Ouzo Pro. It uses titanium parts instead of alloy, etc.

[Sandy]

I have an Ottrott ST, which I am sure that you know. My bike is a 2004. A friend of mine has a 2003 Ottrott ST. His carbon tube set is different than mine. My carbon tube set is different than the 2005 carbon tube set, if I am correct. Now you are saying that the F2 fork will no longer be available in a few weeks. The F2 fork has only been available for a few years.

I must wonder as to what type of improvement my carbon tube set really was, compared to the 2004, and is the 2005 really an improvement at all. In addition, is the F2 any improvement at all compared to the F1, except weight, and is the F3 really going to be better than the F2. Prices go up and innovations occur, and Serotta must try to stay ahead of the cuvre, but to go through 3 tube sets in 3 years, and 2 "top end" forks in such a short time, makes me question what was the real improvement, if any.

How can Serotta get 3 new tube sets in 3 years, and a new fork that simply results in the demise of the fork that Serotta spoke so highly of? Does truly innovative improvement occur in such a short time, or are the changes the result of marketing, with the resultant increase in price for the newest and the best?

Is the 2005 Ottrott ST really a better bike than the 2003 Ottrott ST? How much confidence should Ottrott owners have in tubing or forks that simply seem to go bye bye in such a short time frame.

Personally, I wanted to have my Ottrott to be built with the F1 fork, as I did not care about the extra weight, and the F1 seemed to just stay glued to the ground with a great feel, and no "chatter". I was advised, by Serotta, to go with the F2.


Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

Sandy-

That is why I like my Legend. :D

Jason

[vaxn8r]

Sandy,

it sounds like the real advantage of an F3 is tunability. You can match a forks stiffness more correctly to rider weight and style instead of plugging in the fork off the shelf, one size (one stiffness) fits all.

As for the durability issue, this seems like a moot point. Are we seeing Ouzo Pro's fail after many tens of thousands of miles? No, except for traumatic failures of course, but that is just as likely on any fork.

FWIW my rain bike is a 1997 OCLV. You know what? However many generations old it is and how many iterations of newer and better carbon tubes there have been since then, it's still an awesome bike. It fits me perfectly and it goes fast. It's hard to describe what I mean but it just goes fast. I know some may not like them for any number of reasons but aesthetics aside, it's a kick a$$ bike...7 years later.

Don't worry about the new stuff, it'll drive you nuts if you let it.

[Keith A]

Don't worry about the new stuff, it'll drive you nuts if you let it.

This is so true, but sometimes that is easier said than done -- especially after you have made a big investment and then a short time later, something bigger and better comes along. :crap:

[Serotta_James]

Carbon fiber technology does advance remarkably quickly.
Also, the F2 is an amazing fork. However, we were never exactly comfortable with using someone else's design (Reynolds) for our high-end fork. The F1 was a great success and an absolutely superb ride. We wanted to do that again with the latest carbon tech.

[jberk]

the legend went through the same sort of refinements in the mid-1990s. double butted tubes became triple butted tubes, became the dks rear end, became the st rear . . . like it or not it is going to happen. realistically, but for those refinements you'd probably never be riding an Ottrott.

[jeffg]

Personally, I wanted to have my Ottrott to be built with the F1 fork, as I did not care about the extra weight, and the F1 seemed to just stay glued to the ground with a great feel, and no "chatter". I was advised, by Serotta, to go with the F2. Sandy

Sandy --

My only concerns with the F2/F3 would be if you would not be able to replace an F2 with an F3 without affecting handling. For instance, I thought about picking up an F1 for my Legend but Kelly advised against it since the bike was designed around an F2 and the span of the F1 was different. The F1 was a great fork, as was the original Alpha Q from Dr. Lee (especially with the Ti steerer). On the bright side the F2 is indeed a very good fork (for me anyway), but I hear you. Don't worry about putative infinite material progress (or planned obsolescence). My Legend is just as wonderful as it was in 2002, and I don't really care that Parlee now has an 820g version of my 1000g frame. The 820g version costs $1300 more than I paid for mine in 2003! :no:

[Sandy]

I really do not worry about the new stuff. I only had one bike, a 1998 CSi, and I really thought that it would be my last bike. I love that bike. But after two years of being told that the bike was too small for me, I tried the Ottrott and liked it so much that I ordered one, 2 sizes larger than my CSi.

My comments are more in the direction of the significance of the new changes, that ocurr so often. Are they meaningfully better, or simply done to sell more bikes and "justify" a price increase. Three carbon tube sets in three years simply makes me think some. Eliminating the F2 fork, after such a short time, makes me think a little more. I am remarkably satisfied with my Ottrott. I would go backwards and get a F1 before the F3, probably, if I could.

I enjoyed reading your comments.

I am not trying to be critical of Serotta, in any way. No one is more of a Serotta enthusiast than I am, and sometimes I think that I should keep my thoughts about Serotta to myself, as I would never want anything I say be taken negatively about Serotta, as that is never my intent.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Some highly regarded, very justifiably so, forum posters tend to often think, and justifiably so, that the new technology brings very little to the older steel lugged bicycle and older components, wheels,..... I tend to think that newer technology certainly brings changes, sometimes significant positive changes, sometimes marginally better changes, and sometimes foolish changes to something that was better before.

A new Porsche whatever will blow away a 25 year old Porsche in so many ways. There must be some reasons for that.

I just wonder what are we paying for.


Sandy

[slowgoing]

Sandy - I sent you a PM. slow

[Smiley]

The Ottrott is a fantastic bike , way ahead of its time . But as all new technology it is an evolving one. I don't think you'll see Serotta sit on their asses and not continue to push this frame design . I see the first results of the evolution of the Ottrott is the Nove , what Serotta learned from product development they have put in a highly competitive new frame called the Nove. So my guess is the Nove will be more of the hold the line price bike allowing the R&D guys at Serotta to push forward with inovations with the Ottrott . As I told you Sandy , if they make anymore changes to the Ottrott they should change the name to reflect a new leap in this frame composition . STILL WAITING FOR MY HORTROTT BIKE JARED , I know you had seconds on them cookies Big Guy so what do I need to send over next :banana:

[mavic1010]

Smiley...If you and Ben are roughly the same size, you should hunt him down and ask him what he did with this ottrott DKS...Unless I'm mistaken he had one made when the ottrott came out...well at least that's what he said to me....

[Smiley]

Ron Keifel has an Ottrott DKS , in a 58 cm stock size , I should continue to bug him about selling me this frame except its outdated now , heck he has an F1 fork and probably a fast front end for my liking . I actually have posed the question to have a defective Hors bike ( serotta has this bike hanging on their wall ) chopped and re-glued to an Ottrott and have them sell me this bike . Jared are you listening :banana: :banana:

[mavic1010]

I don't think they can retrofit carbon tubes to a DKS...well, I'm sure you can, but it'll probably be cheaper to make an ottrot and put DKS on...

I bet that ottrott DKS was Ben's...Ben and Ron ride the same size...just tell Ron that bike is gonna break in half and that you need to inspect it...voila...ottrott DKS for you!...

[Tom Robison]

Personally, I wanted to have my Ottrott to be built with the F1 fork, as I did not care about the extra weight, and the F1 seemed to just stay glued to the ground with a great feel, and no "chatter". I was advised, by Serotta, to go with the F2.

Sandy, I'm with you on this one. My 2004 Legend is built with a threadless F1, steel steerer. Didn't care about the weight and the steel steerer F1 is pretty much bomb proof.

Also, the F2 fork was "designed to match the 'feel' of our legendary F1". (2003 Serotta brochure) And in an earlier post, Serotta James said the F3 was closer to the F1 in looks. Why not just make the F1?

Oh well...

Tom