Eddy Merckx models

[Keith A]

I recognize that there are a number of Merckx bike owners and admirers out there and I wanted to get some input from you. I was interested in learning more about the various steel framesets (both new and old) that Merckx has produced. The ones I see most often are the Corsa Extra and MX Leader (there may be others as well).

Specifically, I wanted to find out what the intent was/is for the different frames which would include the tubing selection, geometry and ride characteristics. As a side note, it seems as though some frames are designated as "century geometry" and wanted to get the scoop on this as well.

Thanks!

[dbrk]

I can't speak to the present with all the carbon and aluminum frames but back when all the Merckx frames were steel (at least those that were imported because Merckx has always made bikes for the Euro market that never made it here...and still do, I think), all of the bikes had "century geometry" except, of course, the TT bikes. This was sort of a trademark way of talking about the big set back number and relaxed overall profile of the design.

Corsa became Corsa 0.1 when the Deda 0.1 tubing was introduced. This was the "standard" steel bike, meaning the racer's choice for lightweight steel for guys...uhhh...your size. The MX Leader was specifically marked for especially large and strong riders. My experience with the Corsa was that it was plenty stiff for me. I have a slew of old Merckx catalogues or rather Gita catalogues from the early to middle 90s. I will dig them out for the next TdFL. There were other models but they all sat below these two.

dbrk

[Keith A]

Thanks dbrk for the reply and my primary interest is in the steel offerings from Merckx. I would certainly like to peruse you EM catalogs when I'm up at your place again.

One follow up question for you (or anyone else for that matter)...so what is the Corsa Extra?

[Climb01742]

keith, i have both an MXL and a brand spanking new corsa (which i haven't yet built up.) the corsa has noticeably skinnier tubes but for instances, the DT retains the ovalization of the MXL DT as it goes in the BB. it also feels lighter than an MXL frame (but then again almost any frame would.) :rolleyes: i'm a shrimp but i love the ride of my MXL. which leads me to believe i may really love the corsa ride. seeing the skinny steel tubes of the corsa in 7-11 colors just brings a huge smile to my face...what could be more classic than that?

[BigDaddySmooth]

Climb, You've got 2 EM. Don't you also have (or have had) more than 1 Pegoretti? The reason I ask is I have a Peg FE and I'm thinking of adding a Paolsanto. Is there something wtong w/me in wanting 2 bikes form one builder or should I try something else, like a F. Moser Leader AX?
BDS

[Climb01742]

bigdaddy, nothing wrong if that builder is eddy, dario or ben. if you have a fina, i'd definitely try a steel peg. i love my marcelo. dario knows steel. go for it!!!

[Keith A]

Thanks for the input.

Climb -- Once you get the Corsa built, I would really be interested in hearing your ride report. IIRC, there was some decal mistake on your Corsa and they were taking care of this for you.

So has anyone ridden both the MXL and Corsa models? I see that Competitive Cyclist only has the MXL listed from Merckx and nothing about the Corsa???

I also saw this on CC's website...
Only 100 MX Leaders will be made in 2005. After these are built, the MX Leader will be discontinued for good. Eddy's MXL tubing and lug supply is running out, and he only has enough for these 100. These frames have already been manufactured, and as such Merckx is offering neither custom geometry nor custom paint on them. For 2005 they will be painted in the classic Red, White, and Blue of Team Motorola.

[Marron]

I have three metal Merckx, a Corsa Extra fixie, a MX Leader and a TI-AX. I rode the Corsa Extra the 20 hilly miles to work yesterday and that followed a 60 mile ride on the MX-L on Sunday so my impressions are pretty current. (Of course, I'm riding these bikes all the time so it's interesting that I have distinct impressions.)

From a functional standpoint there's no question that the TI-AX is the best ride. It's pounds lighter and plenty stiff enough for my 160 #s. Armstrong won the worlds on essentially the same bike so what else can you say? But having said that, the Ti frame isn't my favorite. I tend to ride it less than the other two and really regard it as an event bike. It's done RAMROD 5 or 6 times, Deathride once and some other hill climb events, but I don't tend to choose it for just riding around.

My Corsa Extra is a bit of a curiosity because it does not have the "Century" geometry. It's either a custom or was built with what I think was called the 'Race" geometry. For the same size frame it has nearly 2 cm less setback than the TI or MX-L frames. It still fits very well, but my position is just more forward. Not a bad thing as it turns out for a fixed gear bike. The ride is classic SLX, not too stiff, not too flexy. I can't compare it to the Corsa 01, but I do have a Gunnar Road built from 853 which is similar to the Deadacci and that feels lighter but a little less solid to me. No question that modern steels are superior in the strenth to weight area, but I think most of the improvement is in the weight, not the riding qualities.

Finally the Beast! I love this frame. On Sunday I had one of the best rides of the year on this bike. It was a gorgeous sunny fall afternoon. I was riding into the setting sun with the leaves rattling around, etc, etc. I was also cranking along at 25mph + for the last hour and feeling like I could go on forever. When you're in the mood and have the watts, there is nothing, and I mean nothing like an MX-Leader. In 30 years of serious riding I've haven't encountered anything that coveys such a powerful sense of conveting force into motion. It is truely a remarkable achievement of design, materials and build that I doubt can be exceeded.

[Climb01742]

keith, brendan at competitive cyclist can order the corsa for you, as he did for me. take about 2 or 3 months.

[weisan]

Eddy Merckx Strada OS 54cm
Item number: 7113221903
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7113221903

[Keith A]

Marron -- thanks for the details ride descriptions.

Weisan -- nice find, but it's in Sweden :(

BTW, here is an interesting website that I found with prices for the frames and geometry. Based on the models and prices, I would assume the data on this page is from a couple of years ago

EM frame prices & geometry specs (http://www.bicyclesouth.com/bicyclesouth/merckx.html)

[DfCas]

The listed specs are sparse,so does anybody know the BB drop of the MXL's?

Thanks,Dan

[slowgoing]

I think Big Mac knows all of the specs. Merckx has always been sparse with geometry details, although I have noticed a bit more detail lately.

[Climb01742]

The listed specs are sparse,so does anybody know the BB drop of the MXL's?

Thanks,Dan

i measured mine a while ago and it was either 7 or 8 cm. in my experience, the MXL is the best descending frame i've ever ridden, which leads me to believe it might be 8. the MXL can turn even a descending weenie like me into, well, less of a weenie.

[Marron]

i measured mine a while ago and it was either 7 or 8 cm. in my experience, the MXL is the best descending frame i've ever ridden, which leads me to believe it might be 8. the MXL can turn even a descending weenie like me into, well, less of a weenie.
I've measured mine in the past and was suprised that it wasn't lower; it sure feels like it 8cm. Depending on the tires it's something like 7 or 7.25.

[Climb01742]

marron, you could be dead on. i can't remember if i was 7 or 8. maybe it just rides like 8, but is 7. sorry, i just can't remember for sure.

[christian]

Depending on the tires it's something like 7 or 7.25.

BB drop doesn't differ depending on what tires you use. It is the measurement from a horizontal line dissecting the hub center to a horizontal line dissecting the bb center. BB height does, but that's usually around 26-29cm.

On my MXL, it's within a half-millimeter of 73.5mm. I also thought it would be much deeper, on account how this bike descends.

- Christian

PS: What _is_ going on with the MXL? - it's got 72 degree angles, a middling depth bottom bracket, and nothing at all on paper that would make it seem particularly special, and my example is too big, requires me to use a too short stem, yet it still rides like no other bike I've owned. Maybe the fork rake is greater, and the trail is low??? Somebody solve this mystery!!!

[slowgoing]

So what do most people use their MXLs for? Fast group rides with lots of sprinting, or long days in the saddle? I have heard it's OK climbing but is a great descender. So do people use them on climbing days just for the descending thrill? I just bought one and will finish building it up tonight. Can't wait to get it on the road.

[Marron]

BB drop doesn't differ depending on what tires you use. It is the measurement from a horizontal line dissecting the hub center to a horizontal line dissecting the bb center. BB height does, but that's usually around 26-29cm.

On my MXL, it's within a half-millimeter of 73.5mm. I also thought it would be much deeper, on account how this bike descends.

- Christian

PS: What _is_ going on with the MXL? - it's got 72 degree angles, a middling depth bottom bracket, and nothing at all on paper that would make it seem particularly special, and my example is too big, requires me to use a too short stem, yet it still rides like no other bike I've owned. Maybe the fork rake is greater, and the trail is low??? Somebody solve this mystery!!!

You're right about the BB drop measurement. I was lazily referring to the BB height.

As to the PS, that's what I'm always asking myself; how hard can it be to knock off the Merckx design? Apparantly it's pretty hard because I've never seen it done. I know it's not a case of convincing yourself that it's a special ride because that's what eveyone says, it's a true "blindfold test" kind of thing. I think that the proprietary head tube angle eveyone always jokes about is no joke. Given the other design elements you'd expect them to be somewhat twitchy, but they combine stability with quick repsonses. I don't know why it works, I just enjoy it.

[Dr. Doofus]

For what its worth...the Merckx "race" geometry (the Corsa SLX and Strada SL frames...the Stradas were still in the Gita catalogue in 94 and 95) was just a traditional "Italian" job...a 73 seat angle and 57-ish TT for a 58cm frame...a tad steeper, and a tad longer in the f-c, but the same trails as the century frames, so the steering was just about the same, though the overall ride feel was a bit different....

[OldDog]

Christian writes: What _is_ going on with the MXL?

Mine is a 97ish, 53cm, massive ovalized DT and aero fork blades. I don't know how this tubing compares with other year MXL's. The Columbus MAX tubes seem paper thin, "tinny". This bike tracks well, accelerates well, decends well and is smooth to boot. My weight is 195 - 205. I run chorus with Velocity Aerohead OC rims and conti's. I do like a softer wheel on the Eddy. This ride rates right there with my other "artisan" high zoot bikes and nicer/more comfy than an older Merlin/Spectrum standard road. This Eddy is a keeper.