Another darn tubular question

[coylifut]

I wasted a Tufo Cross tubular yesterday. So, are the Griffos and Dugasts true sew ups where you can un sew the casing - patch, boot - and then re sew? Also, do they have repairable butyl tubes. I don't like the idea of glueing another un repairable tire on if can pay a bit more for something that rides better and is repairable.

[dbrk]

Unless you were trained at Hickey Freeman or Oxxford or in the ER of some hospital, sewing up your own tubulars puts you in league with people who think that riding 350 days a year in the Finger Lakes is "no problem." It is an act well beyond faith and commitment, bordering on zealtry and WoodyGuthrie-esque activist rights of The Riding Man. Of course, lots of diehards sew back up their sew-ups but you might consider gathering up a pile of them and sending them to Tire Alert in Florida. This guy does at least an accepatable job for about $15 a pop, $10 I think if you send him more than three (the ad is nearly always in the VeloSnooze). This fellow can also manage to rescue just about any tubular. In the 90s sometime I was quite averse to sewing back up my sew-ups and sent him a pile the size of a mountain: on return, some were clearly better than others but all were re-useable. I quit tubies for the gluing and the cost, not the flats or the ride because clearly they are superior on those counts. You will need proper needle and thread too: think surgical.

dbrk

[dnovo]

Morning Dr D. What he said. Dave N.

[Too Tall]

Repair is not that hard. I used to take about 15 mins. by the side of the road with a Velox kit. Tirealert does an excellent job. My stitches look like young frankenstein

tirealert@tirealert.com
or phone
(800) 735-5516

[coylifut]

It's been a while, but yes indeed I have fixed a tubie before. Good informaton on tire alert, I'd pay someone else $15 to do it. I'm still in search of the information I need. Tufo's have no tube nor do they have sewn up casing. I suspect, but don't know that the Griffos and Dugasts are based on traditional casing that can be fixed. I'm just looking for confirmation.

[Too Tall]

Dugast is traditional.

[jt2gt]

coylifut... not sure about the other cross tubulars, but don't throw away the TUFO. I have heard they are working on a patch. Not sure when it is supposed to come out, but you might as well save the TUFO just in case they do come out with a good patch.

JT

[coylifut]

coylifut... not sure about the other cross tubulars, but don't throw away the TUFO. I have heard they are working on a patch. Not sure when it is supposed to come out, but you might as well save the TUFO just in case they do come out with a good patch.

JT

Now that's good information. I'm Felix Unger living in Oscar Madisons body. I'd have certainly thrown it away.

[BigMac]

The "Dugast" sewups are in fact rebuilt Clements. The "Griffo" you are likely referring to are made in Taiwan under the "Challenge" label but are in fact based on the old Clement molds. The saddest day in cycling history was the day Clement closed its doors...followed by the day Mavic bought Wolber and decided Wolber sewup production would also cease.

The Dugasts are extraordinarily pricey and difficult to find but he actually uses the Clement casings (both silk and cotton versions) for his 'cross sewups. He also uses Wolber cotton casings on some road sewups. Repair casing as needed using same grade thread, insert new latex tube, latex seal case, apply vulcanized tread using similar albeit not identical knobby tread pattern. The result is a sewup that is arguably higher quality (more consistent) than the original model. The Challenger Griffo uses same shape and identical tread pattern to the Clement original but otherwise bares little resemblance to the Clement original.

To your question regarding repairability, yes these are each 'repairable' or conventional sewups that may be repaired by pulling back bias tape, cutting threads, repairing tube, sewing up casing and tape. I'm certainly not going to tell you what you should and should not buy or use but if ride quality, cornering performance and repairability of your tubular tires is of import to you, I would encourage you to avoid anything Tufo. Tufo is a reincarnation of the old Barum tubulars that promised tubeless superiority due to reduced mass, lower cost and similar puncture resistance. Unfortunately, the reality is the casings are stiff, production consistency poor and cost is similar to far better performing true sewups. Once you've experienced a quality sewup like NOS Clement, Dugast, NOS Wolber or Conti Comps I would doubt you'll ever consider a Tufo again. On the other hand, most Tufo riders seem to be wire-on converts as Tufo's ride and perform very similar to their beaded cousins, only 50 grams lighter. For 'cross racers the Dugasts (glued, NOT taped) are the winning choice as they can be run safely at insanely low pressures for remarkable hook-up in the really loose stuff.

Ride on!

[coylifut]

The "Dugast" sewups are in fact rebuilt Clements. The "Griffo" you are likely referring to are made in Taiwan under the "Challenge" label but are in fact based on the old Clement molds. The saddest day in cycling history was the day Clement closed its doors...followed by the day Mavic bought Wolber and decided Wolber sewup production would also cease.

The Dugasts are extraordinarily pricey and difficult to find but he actually uses the Clement casings (both silk and cotton versions) for his 'cross sewups. He also uses Wolber cotton casings on some road sewups. Repair casing as needed using same grade thread, insert new latex tube, latex seal case, apply vulcanized tread using similar albeit not identical knobby tread pattern. The result is a sewup that is arguably higher quality (more consistent) than the original model. The Challenger Griffo uses same shape and identical tread pattern to the Clement original but otherwise bares little resemblance to the Clement original.

To your question regarding repairability, yes these are each 'repairable' or conventional sewups that may be repaired by pulling back bias tape, cutting threads, repairing tube, sewing up casing and tape. I'm certainly not going to tell you what you should and should not buy or use but if ride quality, cornering performance and repairability of your tubular tires is of import to you, I would encourage you to avoid anything Tufo. Tufo is a reincarnation of the old Barum tubulars that promised tubeless superiority due to reduced mass, lower cost and similar puncture resistance. Unfortunately, the reality is the casings are stiff, production consistency poor and cost is similar to far better performing true sewups. Once you've experienced a quality sewup like NOS Clement, Dugast, NOS Wolber or Conti Comps I would doubt you'll ever consider a Tufo again. On the other hand, most Tufo riders seem to be wire-on converts as Tufo's ride and perform very similar to their beaded cousins, only 50 grams lighter. For 'cross racers the Dugasts (glued, NOT taped) are the winning choice as they can be run safely at insanely low pressures for remarkable hook-up in the really loose stuff.

Ride on!

My favorite tires of days-gone-by were the Clement Paris Roubaix. I'd ride em for the singing sound alone. Thanks for the very rich and detailed information. As you've keenly pointed out, value and price are two related, but different animals. As I see it, the Dugast is the least expensive tire on the cross market. I paid $50 (after team discounts) for the Tufo. A Dugast is $100+, but repairable. Having one at my door step before Saturday, now that's a different subject all together.

Thank you

[Dr Moreau]

I might as well butt in with my opinion too - all the other old farts have spoken already. I have raced/ridden many of the old brands and would give my right arm for a lifetime supply of Corsa CXs. That said, the Tufos are pretty damn good - they are tough, have good tread wear, and the latex sauce works very well to fix flats while you are riding.

I recently amazed my wife when I pulled two goat head thorns out of my front tufo 'cross tire - air leaking rapidly. I spun the wheel, the latex sauce that I had put in when I mounted the tire sealed the two holes, and away I went, albeit with about 10 psi less air. This past season I met two guys who flatted at the Sea Otter road race (in the rain). Their Tufos had the latex in them, so they sealed right up and they kept racing. One guy finished 7th in his Cat 3 field and was really stoked - he would have been off the back on a normal tire that flatted, as wheel changes on a hilly course almost ensure you will not get back on to the bunch.

For 'cross, you might check out the elite level racers. At the last two national championships I estimate that 1/3 of the Cat A field was running Tufos - usually the Elites. While Tufo probably gives teams a discount on tires, I don't think they give any away for free. So the top guys are using Tufos because they like the near flat proof system and the ability to run 28 psi.

All that said, 'cross is hell on bikes, tires, and bodies. Its Tuesday night and I'm still a bit sore from Sunday's race...

[Too Tall]

Hey, it is almost Halloween so why not resurrect an old thread?

Does anyone have info. on Michelin Service Corsa tubulars? They are no longer made. Apparently Michelin tubulars were made using Wolber casings / equipment. Any insight appreciated.

*Clinchers...sigh...well they suk.

[LegendRider]

[QUOTE=Too Tall]Does anyone have info. on Michelin Service Corsa tubulars? They are no longer made. Apparently Michelin tubulars were made using Wolber casings / equipment. Any insight appreciated.QUOTE]

I' have some Michelin Service Course tubulars. They all flatted, so I returned them to Tire Alert for repair and they now serve as my spares. I thought the quality was fine, but nothign special. Tufos are more durable and CX or Veloflexes ride better. No other insights...

[Too Tall]

LR thanks for the reply. How old are the tires and which model? Weight will help me determine a few details too...sorry to bug yah? BTW I just found out that labicicletta repairs tubs.

http://www.labicicletta.ca/components_rubber.htm

[LegendRider]

I bought them in 1998 or so. I'll have to check on the model, but I thought the tire just said "Michelin Service Course." The tread is slick and the sidewalls are green.