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Satellite
10-14-2008, 11:30 PM
Basic traffic violation speeding.

Okay have done some of my own research.

I have found out about my rights to a speedy trial. I believe this right has been over looked and I would like to try this as a defense.

My first appearance was on 20 June 2008 I signed an ADVISEMENT OF RIGHT, PLEA OF NOT GUILTY, NOTICE OF FUTURE COURT APPERARANCE. Listed were several rights and one particular stood out:

_______Defendant waives speedy trial.

This was the only right with the line bar next to it as if I was suppose to initial it? The other five rights below this line item are spelled out explicitly. (I hope this makes sense.) I did NOT initial this line item; but I did sign the document.

Anyways my court date is set to be on 17 Oct 2008. It is my understanding less than 45 days is considered a speedy trial. Counted out on a calendar this is 118days w/weekends 85days w/out weekends. Can I enter a Motion to Dismiss due to denial of right to a speedy trial.

Also I have hit a road block, I am trying to subpoena documents for my right to discovery and nobody can tell me how to officially do this I talked to the first appearance center and they transferred me to the D/As office. I talked with 4 different folks at the D/A's office and still nobody knows.

Do you think the judge will grant me a continuance for discovery purposes?

I realize this is for information purposes only; NOT legal advise.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Satellite

93legendti
10-14-2008, 11:38 PM
Where you speeding?

SoCalSteve
10-14-2008, 11:42 PM
Basic traffic violation speeding.

Okay have done some of my own research.

I have found out about my rights to a speedy trial. I believe this right has been over looked and I would like to try this as a defense.

My first appearance was on 20 June 2008 I signed an ADVISEMENT OF RIGHT, PLEA OF NOT GUILTY, NOTICE OF FUTURE COURT APPERARANCE. Listed were several rights and one particular stood out:

_______Defendant waives speedy trial.

This was the only right with the line bar next to it as if I was suppose to initial it? The other five rights below this line item are spelled out explicitly. (I hope this makes sense.) I did NOT initial this line item; but I did sign the document.

Anyways my court date is set to be on 17 Oct 2008. It is my understanding less than 45 days is considered a speedy trial. Counted out on a calendar this is 118days w/weekends 85days w/out weekends. Can I enter a Motion to Dismiss due to denial of right to a speedy trial.

Also I have hit a road block, I am trying to subpoena documents for my right to discovery and nobody can tell me how to officially do this I talked to the first appearance center and they transferred me to the D/As office. I talked with 4 different folks at the D/A's office and still nobody knows.

Do you think the judge will grant me a continuance for discovery purposes?

I realize this is for information purposes only; NOT legal advise.

Thanks in advance for any help,

Satellite

Wow! I dont think OJ thought this out as much as you.

If you sped, pay the fine, go to traffic school and move on with your life. If you didnt speed, can you prove it?

Write a check, go for a bike ride..You will feel better in the morning.

Just sayin'

Steve

Satellite
10-14-2008, 11:52 PM
I was speeding, I was going downhill and had started slowing down, by the time I noticed the police car I looked at my Speedo and noticed I was traveling at 55mph. He gave me a ticket for 70, I don't know if I was going that fast or not I assume so. I don't care about the fine or points, it is the insurance premiums. I haven't had a ticket in a decade my family makes fun of me for never speeding or breaking any traffic laws. If I get traffic school for a deferred sentence then I am all for it; but I am NOT going to roll over.

I don't think my insurance should go up because I got a speeding ticket I mean I am NOT a worse driver than I was before I got the ticket. Insurance is nothing more than legalized extortion and I already pay enough even with a perfect driving record.

Satellite

Louis
10-14-2008, 11:54 PM
S,

My advice: Don't get all worked up about it. It's not worth the aggravation.

If you have evidence of being innocent then go ahead and fight it. If not, just pay the ticket and move on. Unless you already have a bunch of points on your license, in which case you need to talk to a real traffic lawyer. The vast majority of us speed at one point or another. I got a ticket a few months back for rolling through a stop sign, I did it. I admit it. there was no traffic for half a mile in each direction, but I did not stop and he caught me. I paid the money and forgot about it.

Louis

Satellite
10-15-2008, 12:01 AM
S,

My advice: Don't get all worked up about it. It's not worth the aggravation.

If you have evidence of being innocent then go ahead and fight it. If not, just pay the ticket and move on. Unless you already have a bunch of points on your license, in which case you need to talk to a real traffic lawyer. The vast majority of us speed at one point or another. I got a ticket a few months back for rolling through a stop sign, I did it. I admit it. there was no traffic for half a mile in each direction, but I did not stop and he caught me. I paid the money and forgot about it.

Louis

At this point I don't have a choice I have to go to court I might as well be prepared. I secretly hope the officer doesn't even show up. Zero points on my license. Did your insurance go up from the Stop Sign innocent?

Kurt
10-15-2008, 12:11 AM
8 hrs=no point, hidden from insurance company, can sometimes be done over the net
12 hrs=no point, visable to insurance company but current company will not care, only if you get new insurance. can sometimes be done over the net.

I don't think your defense will work. the cop will show because he gets time and a half.

have fun.


The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees all persons accused of criminal wrongdoing the right to a speedy trial. Although this right is derived from the federal Constitution, it has been made applicable to state criminal proceedings through the U.S. Supreme Court's interpretation of the due process and Equal Protection Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The right to a speedy trial is an ancient liberty. During the reign of henry ii (11541189), the English Crown promulgated the Assize of Clarendon, a legal code comprised of 22 articles, one of which promised speedy justice to all litigants. In 1215 the Magna Charta prohibited the king from delaying justice to any person in the realm. Several of the charters of the American colonies protected the right to a speedy trial, as did most of the constitutions of the original 13 states.

The Founding Fathers intended the Speedy Trial Clause to serve two purposes. First, they sought to prevent defendants from languishing in jail for an indefinite period before trial. Pre-trial incarceration is a deprivation of liberty no less serious than post-conviction imprisonment. In some cases pretrial incarceration may be more serious because public scrutiny is often heightened, employment is commonly interrupted, financial resources are diminished, family relations are strained, and innocent persons are forced to suffer prolonged injury to reputation.

Second, the Founding Fathers sought to ensure a defendant's right to a fair trial. The longer the commencement of trial is postponed, the more likely it is that witnesses will disappear, memories will fade, and evidence will be lost or destroyed. Of course, both the prosecution and the defense are threatened by these dangers, but only the defendant's life, liberty, and property are at stake in a criminal proceeding.

The right to a speedy trial does not apply to every stage of a criminal case. It arises only after a person has been arrested, indicted, or otherwise formally accused of a crime by the government. Before the point of formal accusation, the government is under no Sixth Amendment obligation to investigate, accuse, or prosecute a defendant within a specific amount of time.

Nor does the Speedy Trial Clause apply to post-trial criminal proceedings, such as Probation and Parole hearings. If the government drops criminal charges during the middle of a case, the Speedy Trial Clause does not apply unless the government later refiles the charges, at which point the length of delay is measured only from the time of refiling. However, the fairness requirements of the Due Process Clause apply during each juncture of a criminal case, and an unreasonably excessive delay can be challenged under this constitutional provision even if the delay occurs before formal accusation or after conviction.

The U.S. Supreme Court has declined to draw a bright line separating permissible pre-trial delays from delays that are impermissibly excessive. Instead, the Court has developed a Balancing test in which the length of delay is just one factor to be considered when evaluating the merits of a speedy trial claim. The other factors to be considered by a court include the reason for the delay, the severity of prejudice suffered by the defendant from the delay, and the stage during the criminal proceedings at which the defendant asserted the right to a speedy trial.

A delay of at least one year in bringing a defendant to trial following arrest will trigger a presumption that the Sixth Amendment has been violated, with the level of judicial scrutiny increasing in direct proportion to the length of delay. A longer delay may be deemed constitutional, however, and a shorter delay may be deemed unconstitutional, depending on the circumstances.

Longer delays will be permitted to accommodate the schedules of important witnesses, and to allow the prosecution to prepare for a complex case. Longer delays will also be tolerated when a defendant is dilatory in asserting the right to a speedy trial. In general, defendants must assert their Sixth Amendment right in a timely motion before the trial court. If the defendant fails to assert the right in this manner or acquiesces in the face of protracted pretrial delays, she or he may not raise the issue for the first time on appeal, unless the defendant's failure to raise the issue earlier was due to her or his attorney's Negligence. Defendants who delay prosecution by inundating the trial court with frivolous pretrial motions are also treated as having forfeited their rights to a speedy trial. The law does not allow defendants to profit from their own wrong under these circumstances.

Delays shorter than a year will be ruled unconstitutional if the reason for delay offered by the prosecution is unpersuasive or inappropriate. Delays attributable to prosecutorial misconduct, such as the deliberate attempt by the government to delay a proceeding and hamper the defense, will run afoul of the Speedy Trial Clause. Prosecutorial negligence, such as misplacing a defendant's file or losing incriminating evidence, is also considered an inappropriate reason for delay. Additionally, delays shorter than a year will be deemed unconstitutional when the delay has severely limited the opportunity for the accused to defend himself. For example, the death of an alibi witness who would have been available for a timely trial is considered Prima Facie evidence of prejudice under the Speedy Trial Clause.

Despite the strictures of the Speedy Trial Clause, criminal justice has not always moved swiftly in the United States. During the 1970s federal courts had backlogs of thousands of cases on their dockets. Lengthy pretrial delays clogged local jails at great expense to taxpayers. Increasing numbers of defendants were jumping bail while free during extended pretrial release. In 1974 Congress enacted the Speedy Trial Act (18 U.S.C.A. 3161 et seq.) to ameliorate the situation.

Unlike the balancing test created by the Supreme Court to evaluate a claim under the Speedy Trial Clause, the Speedy Trial Act establishes specific time limits between various stages of federal criminal proceedings. The act requires federal authorities to file an information or indictment within 30 days of a defendant's arrest. A prosecutor who knows that an accused is incarcerated at the time of indictment must take immediate steps to initiate prosecution. If a defendant enters a plea of not guilty, trial must commence within 70 days from the filing of the information or indictment or 70 days from the first appearance of the accused in court, whichever is later.

Certain types of delays are exempted from the act's time limitations. For example, the act exempts delays caused by the absence of the defendant, the unavailability of an essential witness, or the conduct of a codefendant. Delays resulting from a defendant's involvement in other legal proceedings are typically exempted as well. Additionally, the act gives courts discretion to grant the prosecution a Continuance in the interests of justice. Courts are also given discretion to dismiss charges when a defendant suffers prejudice from a pretrial delay that is of a kind not exempted under the act.

The Speedy Trial Act has been held to apply to both citizens and non-citizens alike. See United States v. Restrepo, 59 F. Supp. 2d 133 (D. Mass. 1999). However, since the September 11th Attacks in 2001, the United States has sought to enhance the abilities of immigration officials and other law enforcement officers to prevent further terrorist attacks. Under the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001, Pub. L. No. 107-56, 115 Stat. 272, the attorney general may certify a non-citizen as a terrorist if reasonable grounds exist to believe that the non-citizen has been engaged in terrorist activities. If the attorney general certifies the non-citizen as a terrorist, the act mandates the detention of the non-citizen. If the terrorist is deemed to be a threat to national security, or if emergency or other extraordinary circumstances are present, the federal government may detain the person for six months or longer. Accordingly, a suspected terrorist could be detained for a significant period of time without criminal charges or deportation proceedings brought against the suspect.

Many state jurisdictions have passed legislation similar to the Speedy Trial Act. Like the federal act, most state legislation permits courts to provide prosecutors with additional time upon a showing of exceptional circumstances. Most state laws also authorize courts to dismiss charges that have not been brought within a reasonable amount of time following arrest or indictment. Thus, these defendants faced with an unreasonable pretrial delay have a number of constitutional and statutory provisions that may provide them with effective relief.

Peter P.
10-15-2008, 07:24 AM
You either pay the COURT or pay a LAWYER. If you're trying to keep your premiums down, then visit the lawyer. The only way you're going to understand how the system works i.e., getting the documents you seek etcetera, is to go THROUGH the system. Reading a book is not nearly enough. Trust me, I've been there. It's practically worth it to go through the court system just for the education. I considered it like paying tuition for a class.

rwsaunders
10-15-2008, 07:45 AM
The cop will show as others have pointed out...it's a good, solid source of income for them. Go to the hearing and tell the story that you have told here....slowing down, first offense, concerned about insurance, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that the judge/magistrate sets a fine and doesn't assess the points. At the end of the event, raise your left arm and shout...."Viva La Sandanistas!" Just kidding on the last part....

gemship
10-15-2008, 07:47 AM
cops don't show for these things because the court now has what they call a court appointed officer who basically represents the officer's who issued citations to be contested. You should definitely contest the ticket, you will most likely at best recieve a reduced fine. Remember the judge sides up with the testimony of the officer and radar gun as evidence. A literal "speedy trial" would only aggravate the issue not in your favor, as they say can't fight city hall. Any way just for showing up you will represent doubt and the fine will be reduced. Here in Ma. if you don't have any incidents for something like 5 or 6 years they won't surcharge your first incident, at least thats what happened with me a year and half ago I got a speeding ticket. I contested it a year ago about 4 months after the ticket, reduced from 220$ to 100$ and I thought the same as you my insurance :crap: We'll that bill came and I actually paid less. I asked the insurance agent why and she said I don't know but its been so long since you had a driving incident that you qualify for no surcharge but remember that only happens the first time here in Ma. Not sure where you are, hope this helps.

gemship
10-15-2008, 07:50 AM
The cop will show as others have pointed out...it's a good, solid source of income for them. Go to the hearing and tell the story that you have told here....slowing down, first offense, concerned about insurance, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that the judge/magistrate sets a fine and doesn't assess the points. At the end of the event, raise your left arm and shout...."Viva La Sandanistas!" Just kidding on the last part....

the court doesn't asses surcharge points, that is the registries job. I would suggest to the op to talk to your insurance agent. Willing to bet you don't get a surcharge this one time.

R2D2
10-15-2008, 08:01 AM
I was speeding, I was going downhill and had started slowing down, by the time I noticed the police car I looked at my Speedo and noticed I was traveling at 55mph. He gave me a ticket for 70, I don't know if I was going that fast or not I assume so. I don't care about the fine or points, it is the insurance premiums. I haven't had a ticket in a decade my family makes fun of me for never speeding or breaking any traffic laws. If I get traffic school for a deferred sentence then I am all for it; but I am NOT going to roll over.

I don't think my insurance should go up because I got a speeding ticket I mean I am NOT a worse driver than I was before I got the ticket. Insurance is nothing more than legalized extortion and I already pay enough even with a perfect driving record.

Satellite

If you're only worried about points then go plead like 64 in a 55 which is less than 10 over and shouldn't have points.
The court gets the fine and you don't get points.
If you want to do anything more sophisticated get a lawyer but then they cost as much as the increased insurance.

William
10-15-2008, 08:27 AM
In Rhode island, if you haven't had a ticket before (or one withing X number of years) you can invoke your "good driving record". They will let you off as long as you don't get another one within six months....as I remember it.




William

EDS
10-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Cut a deal with the officer when you get to court. Usually, the judge will give you an opportunity to speak with the officer off the record. Tell the guy you have no tickets in the past 10 years etc. and chances are he will agree to a plea bargain down to a "moving violation" will should not result in any impact on your insurance premiums. This will usually work unless you were way over the speeding limit. If you were going 70 in a 35 mph area you will have your work cut out for you.

That being said, I got a ticket two years ago and it increased by annual insurance premiums by a total of $20. It would have cost me more to take time off from work rather then write the check and be done with it.

Chad Engle
10-15-2008, 09:38 AM
I don't think my insurance should go up because I got a speeding ticket I mean I am NOT a worse driver than I was before I got the ticket. Insurance is nothing more than legalized extortion and I already pay enough even with a perfect driving record.

This is funny stuff. No you are not a worse driver, you are just as bad a driver as you were before, now you've been caught once. It's still a crime, even if you haven't been caught yet.

Insurance is legalized extortion? You're right, just the man trying to keep you down. :crap:

Go talk to the county attorney before trial, you will not win at trial, it is possible to cut a deal with the prosecutor.

rwsaunders
10-15-2008, 10:11 AM
The neighborhood school that I went to was so tough, one day in English class, the teacher asked if anyone knew what came after a sentence. The kid next to me replied...."an appeal."

R. Dangerfield

BarryBrown
10-15-2008, 10:15 AM
Many Insurance companies will forgive you if you have the sterling record you indicate. Call your agent. You're in way over your head with this filing motions stuff. In fact, you would likely have to have it escalated to a higher court to do so, where they have higher court fees if you lose. The cop could have taken you forthwith to the judge, which is what the speedy trial is in this case. Instead, they almost always give you the chance to drive away and pay the fine by the due date or arrange a court time.

If you don't want to back down, hope the officer doesn't show for court.

Pay the fine, move on. Life's too short.

Marcusaurelius
10-15-2008, 10:29 AM
I remember I once received three speeding tickets in one week. I was guilty so I paid the fines with much sadness but I didn't receive any points. I am guessing you have have a much tougher system because you only receive points here if you are going 95mph in a 55mph zone or something smiliar.

Kurt
10-15-2008, 11:05 AM
in ca points are accessed when a person breaks the law in a car. the number of points vary with the infraction. the time the points stay on ones record vary depending on state. points are the only thing the insurance company cares about, if you take an extended school program for a second ticket in <18 months that you have already taken care of with traffic school it will still show up but usually insurance companies don't care if you have been with them for a while. its the new carrier that will see it and care about it. the only way to have a point taken off is school or having the court dismiss the ticket, its either gone or it stays, the judge does not have the option to just give you a fine and throw out the point, it does not work that way. it will cost you ~$600 for an atty to send paper to the court and another 1k if he has to appear which is why I love traffic school. I get tickets and have a way of dealing with them so they don't impact me except for the fines and my insurance has never gone up. traffic school is the easy way out if you can do it. with the online schools you can often log on in the am, let the timer run during the day and just finish up 20 minutes of open tests when you get home. some will argue that 12 hrs schools for repeat offenders are worthless but keeping a point off the dmv records is a big deal if you get many tickets a year as I do and insurance based on my experence - state farm in ca - does not go up so I think its worth it. I will also say I have never had to sit in class 12 hrs, 8 hrs or even 4 to get a ticket taken care of, you just have to be creative.

Pete Serotta
10-15-2008, 11:08 AM
I would suggest getting a lawyer that is known for handling that type of case in the district you got the ticket - - let him or her do their thing....

At this point I don't have a choice I have to go to court I might as well be prepared. I secretly hope the officer doesn't even show up. Zero points on my license. Did your insurance go up from the Stop Sign innocent?

johnnymossville
10-15-2008, 11:49 AM
Now, If you didn't have a driver's license you couldn't get any points now could you? Also, if you didn't have insurance, they couldn't raise your rates since you wouldn't have any rates to begin with. I doubt they'd send you to jail over a ticket, but you'd have some fines to pay, which would be cheaper than insurance payments anyway. Of course I'm not advocating doing any of that, but once you buy into the "system" you are at it's mercy. Tough Luck, and welcome to a modern day form of slavery.

vqdriver
10-15-2008, 02:33 PM
This is funny stuff. No you are not a worse driver, you are just as bad a driver as you were before, now you've been caught once. It's still a crime, even if you haven't been caught yet.

Insurance is legalized extortion? You're right, just the man trying to keep you down. :crap:

Go talk to the county attorney before trial, you will not win at trial, it is possible to cut a deal with the prosecutor.

+1

all the legal stuff here seems beyond the point.
you sped. you admit it. you got caught. you pay.
i'm not sure what ten years of getting away with it is supposed to mean other than you're angry your streak is over.

Dekonick
10-15-2008, 03:03 PM
If you have a good record, often you can get probation before judgement - be good for a few years, and no points.

Still costs the court fees, and often the fine.

Worth speaking with the cop/state attorney - but if you pull speedy trial crap, my bet will be a max fine and all the points. You might be able to appeal, etc... but I bet you loose in the end...

sc53
10-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Forget the motion for denial of a speedy trial. You haven't even researched what "speedy" means in your particular jurisdiction, or whether a traffic offense = criminal case = right to a speedy trial. You may be in luck if the officer doesn't show up--happens frequently in all jurisdictions for a variety of reasons. If he does show, cross examine him with questions about the radar equipment he was using, when was it last calibrated, what is its accuracy when properly calibrated, etc. Chances are he won't have a clue when or if the equipment was EVER calibrated. Then you can argue that the state didn't prove its case against you because there is no evidence that the equipment was accurate. But if you don't know what you are doing, you could just pi$$ off the judge with all this, esp if it's not done properly, and end up with the fine plus court costs of $200.
As someone else said, you could always just go to court, tell your story honestly, and hope for leniency from the judge. Might be the best approach if you can't afford a lawyer to contest this charge properly for you.

ox_rider
10-15-2008, 04:40 PM
Everytime I have ever gotten a speeding ticket, I have called the prosecutor's office and asked to pay the fine in lieu of getting the points and everytime it worked. On one, I asked if the number of miles over could be reduced and the points waived and that worked to.

As a very young law student many years ago (I don't practice law now), I was an intern in the county prosecutor's office. We regularly allowed speeders to pay the fine and we waived the points. It pissed off the state troopers with their puffy chests and 5 liter unmarked mustangs when they showed up in court for 20 tickets and only 5 were there, but we collected the fines.

Moral of the story: call, ask, you can't end up worse off than you are now and you will probably improve your situation.

beungood
10-15-2008, 11:06 PM
I will make the disclaimer right off that I have been a Police Officer in Mass for 13 years ,8 of them as a motorcycle Officer /traffic division,I would not try the speedy trial arguement as speeding is a civil motor vehicle infraction which would not trigger speedy trial protections. I think I would make the arguement of having a good driving record or try to make arrangements before hand if your state allows this.

In Mass you have "2 bites of the apple" when appealing CMVI's , first is a magistrates appeal where the Issuing Officer is not required to be present (Court Police Prosecutor). You may be able to work something out with him or have some of the fine lowered or the speed. The second is the Judges appeal where the issuing Officer must be present. It is true we get time and a half but alot of Jurisdictions are not making the Officers go or many have other commitments(search warrants, vacations,sick, more pressing assignments etc etc). You may make out by virtue of the Officer not showing up the second time.

I would say that I always calibrate my radar unit at the beginning of my assignment if it is out of cal I turn it in and have a replacement issued. Many places there is a Supervisor who also calibrates them to make sure they fall within guidelines(1 mph). We are also schooled in the operation and functions of the units to include the doppler radiation waves and how the unit aquires targets.

I think the best advice I can give you besides slow down and pay attention, is saying sorry in many instances (in my experience) will get you off with a warning or lower fines. arguing a point of wether you were speeding is not worth it. I also agree with the poster the Insurance fines levied on the violator are unfair and extortion!!! We argued against them when they were inacted. They used to count the number of written warnings and when they got to a certain point the violator recived a 7 or 15 day license suspension and fine ,.but,no points. and we didn't see as many of the same people re-offend (at least not in our area). :no:

my two cents...

Louis
10-16-2008, 12:34 AM
Slight thread drift:

You know what really p!sses me off? When you get stopped and first words out of the officer's mouth are "Do you know why I stopped you?" Over the years it's happened to me several times. Talk about an invitation to self-incrimmination. You want to be nice and not start the conversation off on the wrong foot, but that puts you in a no-win situation. (Which of course is why they do it.) The next time I'm asked I think I'll just ignore the question, smile (as he holds the 3 foot long MagLight over your head like a club) and say "Hello officer!"

Louis

johnnymossville
10-16-2008, 12:43 AM
"Do you know why I stopped you?"


Answer: "Lemme guess. You haven't filled your monthly quota yet?"

:p

Lincoln
10-16-2008, 04:11 AM
Thanks beungood, that was interesting and informative.

Chris
10-16-2008, 07:55 AM
Dude, pay the fine. If you were going to be a baby about having points on your record, you shouldn't have been speeding. Unless your time is useless, the small amount that your insurance might go up is not worth the time and effort you are spending trying to avoid it.

William
10-16-2008, 08:22 AM
I've known beungood for quite a few years now. He's a class guy and he knows his stuff. If you are polite and keep it to the business at hand, he'll be cool and fair with you...and you might even catch a break. If you start off being argumentative, rude, and disrespectful, he'll stay steely professional but you certainly will be getting no breaks at all. A lot depends on how you treat the officer. Too many people start off rude and disrespectful...just because they got caught breaking the law.

Not to say the OP acted in such a manner, just stating my experience working with officers...and this one in particular.



William

PS: Beungood, get down here for a good arse whooping!! ;)

johnnymossville
10-16-2008, 09:51 AM
I'll agree with being upfront and respectful with police officers. I've been pulled over for speeding many many times back when I was younger and more stupid (yeah, hard to believe) than I am now and tried many different tactics. Being nice works better than being snide with them. Also, you never know when you might actually need their help some day.

Satellite
10-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Thanks for those of you with decent responses (Beungood) and thanks to the others that make me out to be a habitual speeder, bad driver, wiener and a criminal that needs to be thrown in jail and the key lost. I have stated many times before that I have a perfect driving record and have never even been in an accident my fault or otherwise. I am treating this as a learning experience almost kind of fun in a way. I am NOT and don't plan on being disrespectful to anyone. I actually had to email the officer and ask him how to subpoena the evidence I need. It was a pleasant experience and I look forward to meeting him again (or NOT <|8^}) in court. I am also a salaried employee and NOT worried about taking time off from work do take care of this issue, I currently work 50 hours a week as it is, I think I can take some time off to take care of my rare personal issues. After all I got the ticket on the way to work. If I end up with 6 points on my license and pay the fine then so be it (I am a gracious loser I have to be or never would have survived road racing), but I am NOT going to roll over.

I will let everyone know how it goes tomorrow.

PaulE
10-16-2008, 04:49 PM
In the great state of NJ you can cut a deal with the judge and the DA to pay a greater fine (more than double) and get no points if you have a clean record. You can only do this 2x within a certain timeperiod like 24 or 36 or 48 months, I forget. We paid a lawyer to get this deal for our teenage driver's first ticket, so the cost ended up being about 4x what a guilty plea to the original ticket would have been but no points. (By the way that wasn't a speeding ticket, it was for failure to keep right going 5 miles under the 45 mph speed limit in the left lane of a local 4 lane road with traffic in both lanes on his side.) Then he got a second ticket, this time for speeding, so we did the same deal on our own without the lawyer. Yes he was speeding, along with everyone else that Saturday morning on the Parkway, and the idea that cops will pick a target is starting to sink in with him. If there is a 3rd time any time in the next few years the points will start accumulating.

Tickets are a hidden tax and a great revenue enhancer for the various state and municipal governments. In our son's case the judge and da made a speech before everyone appearing in the court the first time to the effect of, they are required to implement various state initiatives and don't get enough money from Trenton (state capital) to cover their cost, so if you don't like it, write your state senator and assemblyman. If you really don't want points and want to do this yourself, maybe you should find out what goes on in your locale. One way to do this on your own would be to witness what the judge and da are doing in your traffic court on a day/night ahead of your appearance.

Hey I'm not an attorney and don't play one on tv. Good luck!

Satellite
10-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Yep I am showing up early to watch other cases. This should also help with the nerves I am a stranger in a strange land.

beungood
10-16-2008, 05:25 PM
I've known beungood for quite a few years now. He's a class guy and he knows his stuff. If you are polite and keep it to the business at hand, he'll be cool and fair with you...and you might even catch a break. If you start off being argumentative, rude, and disrespectful, he'll stay steely professional but you certainly will be getting no breaks at all. A lot depends on how you treat the officer. Too many people start off rude and disrespectful...just because they got caught breaking the law.

Not to say the OP acted in such a manner, just stating my experience working with officers...and this one in particular.



William

PS: Beungood, get down here for a good arse whooping!! ;)


Thanks for the props, I always try to be fair and start off with a written warning if it is not too far over . I use a 10 mph grace period and run the traffic history of the person I stop. i'll ask them if they have been stopped before. William is on the money many respond in a snide manner and talk themselves into a parting gift. On side streets and 20 MPh + over the limit we ticket. I feel I should be harder on the REAL OFFENDERS not someone speeding to get to work (something we all do). It helps that our Chief considers Money fines and written warnings in the same light.

William , Just had my CATSCAN waiting to hear the results. That Motorcycle accident is kicking my A$$. My lower ab and lower lower ab hurts Im praying this is normal and not something torn up...

Satellite
10-17-2008, 07:46 PM
To all,

Well here it is the Deputy didn't show up; the case was dismissed with NO points or fines. Wow I got very lucky on this one, hopefully I will get another 10 years between tickets.

It still ended up costing me over $100 because my wife went with me and we stopped at a shoe store after. Next time it would be wise to leave the wife at home.

No time for a good bike ride today but tomorrow I will get in a long ride to reflect on my good fortune and my momentary laps of jugdement.

Keep the auto speeds low and the cycling miles high.

Thanks again for the replies,

Satellite

Pete Serotta
10-17-2008, 07:55 PM
Sounds like a hidden domestic tax :) :)


To all,

Well here it is the Deputy didn't show up; the case was dismissed with NO points or fines. Wow I got very lucky on this one, hopefully I will get another 10 years between tickets.

It still ended up costing me over $100 because my wife went with me and we stopped at a shoe store after. Next time it would be wise to leave the wife at home.

No time for a good bike ride today but tomorrow I will get in a long ride to reflect on my good fortune and my momentary laps of jugdement.

Keep the auto speeds low and the cycling miles high.

Thanks again for the replies,

Satellite

Blue Jays
10-17-2008, 08:50 PM
Luck was on your side today! :)

Louis
10-21-2008, 09:55 PM
Well here it is the Deputy didn't show up; the case was dismissed with NO points or fines.

Can I hire you as a lawyer? Got a speeding ticket on my way in to work today. 75 in a 55.

Extenuating circumstances:

1) I was preparing for a "left lane exit" which tends to make me go faster than I normally would.

2) It used to be a 60 mph zone which recently went down to 55 (I know, 75 is still way above 60)

3) At most I was doing 3 or 4 mph faster than some of the cars around me and no faster than the car that was right in front of me.

I will pay the $106 and hope that 1) My insurance company doesn't find out, and 2) I don't get nabbed again soon, because a few months ago I got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, so that's 3 pts on my license. Apparently I'm becoming an even worse driver as I get older...

Louis

PS as least the officer didn't pull the "Do you know why I've stopped you?" routine.

Satellite
10-21-2008, 10:39 PM
Can I hire you as a lawyer? Got a speeding ticket on my way in to work today. 75 in a 55.

Extenuating circumstances:

1) I was preparing for a "left lane exit" which tends to make me go faster than I normally would.

2) It used to be a 60 mph zone which recently went down to 55 (I know, 75 is still way above 60)

3) At most I was doing 3 or 4 mph faster than some of the cars around me and no faster than the car that was right in front of me.

I will pay the $106 and hope that 1) My insurance company doesn't find out, and 2) I don't get nabbed again soon, because a few months ago I got a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, so that's 3 pts on my license. Apparently I'm becoming an even worse driver as I get older...

Louis

PS as least the officer didn't pull the "Do you know why I've stopped you?" routine.

Hiring me won't work; because all I used was dumb luck and I think you might need more than that or maybe NOT since it works for me all the time :banana:

sc53
10-22-2008, 10:07 AM
That's a great result Satellite! I have always heard that you have a good chance the officer won't show up, for what may be a very good reason, or could have been just plain indifference.

csm
10-22-2008, 10:52 AM
I have a ticket I am contesting now. apparently it took an airplane to catch me. my issue isn't that I was speeding; I was. but I drive a black car, and this was in fairly heavy traffic and I was most certainly driving with the flow and NOT the fastest car out there. PA had this operation TACT (targeting agressive cars and trucks) and were making a big fuss about that on the news. seems to me they should target the tailgating semis, constant lane changers, drafters, etc. My issue with the citation is that I can not afford the points as I spend a lot of time on the road for work.

Satellite
10-22-2008, 11:43 AM
I have a ticket I am contesting now. apparently it took an airplane to catch me. my issue isn't that I was speeding; I was. but I drive a black car, and this was in fairly heavy traffic and I was most certainly driving with the flow and NOT the fastest car out there. PA had this operation TACT (targeting agressive cars and trucks) and were making a big fuss about that on the news. seems to me they should target the tailgating semis, constant lane changers, drafters, etc. My issue with the citation is that I can not afford the points as I spend a lot of time on the road for work.

Contest it because both the pilot and the officer that ticketed you have to show up to court. This is NOT legal advice and I can't be held liable under any circumstances :banana: got to love the disclaimer.

crossjunkee
10-22-2008, 12:54 PM
It still ended up costing me over $100 because my wife went with me and we stopped at a shoe store after.

Now that's funny stuff! :)

csm
10-22-2008, 01:53 PM
I am contesting it. fortunately (in this case anyway) my spouse is an attorney. mostly family now but cut her teeth in the criminal world and was actually fielding calls from Oprah, Montel and thre rest of the ilk on a case she once had. she is offering advice and a friend (another attorney) is confident he can work out a deal with the PSP to get it reduced.

Satellite
10-24-2008, 09:36 PM
hahahaha... Last night my wife got a ticket for running a stop sign after work dark nobody coming for miles she rolls thru a stop sign on the Army Base outside of the hospital she works at. She seen a car hiding behind a small bush she didn't think it was a cop but atlast busted. I knew if it wasn't for bad luck I would have NO luck at all; my ticket went away but I am sure hers will raise our insurance anyways.

Louis
10-24-2008, 11:06 PM
What a family of scofflaws.

The exact same thing happened to me a few months ago.