Pros rooting against pros?

[Viper]

What would you say to a cycling pro, who used to dope, mocking the recent EPO drug scandals, as their wish of finding an open spot on a team increased with each positive test?

[Lifelover]

d) Who Cares!

[Viper]

d) Who Cares!

Define and expand your point. Thanks!

Edit: And thanks for the reminder as many care, they also care about the hypocrisy of it all.

[Viper]

"A nation reveals itself not only by the men it produces, but also by the men it honors."
~President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Lifelover, something to consider, perhaps.

cliffnotes = It's about honor, the question I proposed for discussion in the original post. Subtract nation, replace with cycling or sport. Honor. And while I do not condemn anyone who voted that it's only human, how could I? I offered it as a potentiality as yes, we are human, but there again, honor is something we strive for, honor is of the highest human qualities, whereas gossip, gossiping of fallen, positive, doped riders, for one's benefit, is something we fall down for and no President will produce an enduring, endearing quote of gossip. Honor.

Take away Presidential perspective, would a frame builder in our sport gain points, or lose credibility if he/she boasted that another frame builder's frames were failing due to faulty lugs? Dishonorable, disrespectful? Perhaps and one asks, would it be hubristically hypocritical if that frame builder had, in his/her past, built some disasterous frames.

PS. Louis, while I enjoy banter of Star Wars and bacon, deep down, I prefer solid substance. It's just that the mind needs a break from time to time, The Force and bacon provide an oasis in the heat of the days. So, Senor Louis, weigh in, cast your vote and give it your best game. No aluminum bats, we use only wood.

:)

[gdw]

Another who cares vote. Pro road cycling is in the same class as pro wrestling. It's entertainment.... part sport part soap opera. Accept it for what it is.

[Viper]

Another who cares vote. Pro road cycling is in the same class as pro wrestling. It's entertainment.... part sport part soap opera. Accept it for what it is.

You're saying we shouldn't confront smelly trash, just accept it and hope the garbage men pick it up on Mondays and Thursdays?

I hope the sport can be better, bettered by raising the bar. I don't think it's pro for a pro to mock the positive tests of others for his/her benefit. You're right, the sport of men's cycling is a soap opera and it needs soap to clean it up; any pro who tested positive in his/her past and winks at those who just failed, so he/she can get picked up by a team ought to eat soap.


:beer:

[gdw]

Yup. The sport has always been dirty and the half-assed attempts to clean it up are just part of the show.

[Viper]

Yup. The sport has always been dirty and the half-assed attempts to clean it up are just part of the show.

On this, we agree.

But I've never lost my voice. I wish I could be in an earpiece in LeMond's ear, talk him through a press conference, like they did for Reagan during his last term. :)

:beer:

[girlie]

Not sure what's going on here........maybe a rant...I like a good rant:)

Oh hell I'm human...I'd take the job, I'd be happy to take the job.
Sign me up to replace any rider busted for doping.....cool.

Why wouldn't a clean rider hope for that? Even a rider who had doped in the past? We learn. I'd want to replace as many riders who dope as possible. This is competition and plain good old commonsense.

girlie

[Viper]

Not sure what's going on here........maybe a rant...I like a good rant:)

Oh hell I'm human...I'd take the job, I'd be happy to take the job.
Sign me up to replace any rider busted for doping.....cool.

Why wouldn't a clean rider hope for that? Even a rider who had doped in the past? We learn. I'd want to replace as many riders who dope as possible.

girlie

"Because we don't strut" said Leo McGarry on The West Wing.

We don't strut, gentleman don't strut. Nor gentlewomen. Let the rider earn his/her way onto a Euro team based on his/her accomplishments, their résumé, their curriculum vitae; yes, let one's summary of their course of life be the cause and celebration they ride in le peleton, not their caustic verbal strut of another man's downfall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_McGarry

"Now we have laws, and they are difficult and they have to be enforced, and it's right that they're enforced. But we do not strut...ever."
~Leo McGarry, The West Wing, "Shibboleth"

[girlie]

"Because we don't strut" said Leo McGarry on The West Wing.

We don't strut, gentleman don't strut. Nor gentlewomen. Let the rider earn his/her way onto a Euro team based on his/her accomplishments, their résumé, their curriculum vitae; yes, let one's summary of their course of life be the cause, reason and celebration they ride in le peleton, not their verbal strut of another man's downfall.


Ummm I believe if I am next in line for the position - I have earned my spot. Especially, if I am 2nd to a doper.
This is all commonsense.
I'd strut in the face of padded resumes.
I'd sing it loud and proud that "YES, I did this and I did it clean, this time."
People need the good, happy ending, stories with the sad and down and out ones. We need to hear when riders figured it out and do the right thing. That we can fall and still get back up. That there is forgiveness even if you "sinned".

enough said and off to have a few beers,
girlie

[Viper]

Ummm I believe if I am next in line for the position - I have earned my spot. Especially, if I am 2nd to a doper.
This is all commonsense.
I'd strut in the face of padded resumes.
I'd sing it loud and proud that "YES, I did this and I did it clean, this time."
People need the good, happy ending, stories with the sad and down and out ones. We need to hear when riders figured it out and do the right thing. That we can fall and still get back up. That there is forgiveness even if you "sinned".

enough said and off to have a few beers,
girlie

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

This famous quote has been used by a President to describe our foreign policy, he borrowed it from a west African proverb:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:kq37Fg22PXEJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_Diplomacy+walk+softly+and+carry+a+big+st ick&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

It is classy to ride your bike and get to Europe on your own accomplishments, yes, but for one to openly, outwardly mock other's failures in order to seize success, while he/she has doped in their past? No, that lacks all sense of class, sportsmanship and honor and moreover, only shows the athlete who isn't speak softly...didn't learn anything at all.

It seems unreasonable to picture Atticus Finch telling Jem* or Scout that it's okay to mock others.

* = extra credit question - what was Jem's full, first name. And was his full name a modern day abbreviation and if so, for whom? :confused:


Atmo:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=0NEbHGREK7cC&dq=to+kill+a+mockingbird&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=gsL4JU0St2&sig=lzEDHLJNJVEj_47gWDzncn9GiPw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPP1,M1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship



:beer:

[cadence90]

Edit: And thanks for the reminder as many care, they also care about the hypocrisy of it all.
I was looking exactly for "hypocrite" as an option. Not having that choice, I am reserving my right to abstain from the vote.
Having looked at the votes though, of those currently listed on the poll, imho girlie's is the most salient one(s). :)

Another who cares vote. Pro road cycling is in the same class as pro wrestling. It's entertainment.... part sport part soap opera. Accept it for what it is.
I think that's a bit harsh: pro road cycling is an international sport; pro wrestling is a U. S. Nascar side show. Pro road cycling comprises a lot of dedicated, honest and clean riders; pro wrestling likes to hire Gold's Gym Clown Class graduates.

I had the "pleasure" of sitting next to Hulk Hogan on a plane once (first weird thing: it was a cross-country flight and he was dressed in full Hulk regalia :rolleyes: ).
To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen frying Dan Quayle, "Hulk, I've watched Hinault, Lemond, Big Mig, Il Piirata, Der Kaiser, and Lance; I love Felice Gimondi; I've met Thor Hushovd and Paolo Bettini....Hulk, you're none of those guys...."


Of course "the sport has always been dirty and the half-assed attempts to clean it up are just part of the show." That's why penalties should be increased, depending on the degree of offense, sanctions made more severe, and the crocodile tears banned.

While certainly some riders who previously doped should be allowed to return, the conditions need to be really stringent, as they would be on any "offender" comprising any part of society. If not, let the clean riders strut their stuff. I really do NOT care if a doped rider has a 4-second faster time up L'Alpe than a clean one. I just want to see a sport where one can respect the (clean) winner, and not have Maillot Jaunes traded in every other day as if they're poker chips.


PS: Gazzetta dello Sport poll today:
"Can Lance Armstrong win the 2009 Giro d'Italia?"
Yes: 42,6%
No:..57.4%

What's the over/under on those numbers equalling the POTUS victory margin? ;)