Ripped tubular base tape

[paczki]

I decided to take a brand new Conti 25 off of a wheel (it was too big and rubbed against the FD clamp) and replace it with a 22. In doing this the base tape ripped away from the tire a bit -- the stitching broke. It's a brand new tire so don't want to throw it away. What should I do, oh you of great tubular expertise!

(By the way Easton EAC 90 SLX wheels (Easton hub, not Velomax) are awesome)

[regularguy412]

I believe I saw in another thread that Jevelot is suitable for repairing base tape that is pulled loose or torn. I have a couple of tires that will become spares that have the base tape pulled away from the casing right in the area of the inner tube valve, so I'll be doing this same repair over the winter.

One method shared by a forumite was to put Saran Wrap around a section of one of your 'stretching' rims before installing the tire with the repaired base tape section. This helps keep the Jevelot from sticking the tape to the rim after you inflate the tire on the rim for the repaired section to cure.

My disclaimer is that I have not yet attempted this repair, so I'm only relating info from threads on this forum. It doesn't sound like a big deal to do.

I say: Give it a 'go'. When all else fails,, summon 11.4 (forumite).

Mike in AR :beer:

[11.4]

I've always used latex in the past, but tire manufacturers are changing the adhesives they use to bond the base tape to the tire. Conti in particular, since they had more problems than most. If I'm working with a high-end tubular such as Dugast or FMB, I'll still use latex, but for Contis, the latex has a tendency to bead up which tells me the original adhesive is something incompatible. The latex certainly doesn't work as well as it used to on Contis. So my current favorite is Barge Cement. This is used to glue soles onto hiking shoes, wading shoes, that kind of thing, so it puts up with all the wet, stress, whatever quite well. And it stays very flexible. Put a thin coat on each side (tape and casing), let it dry 15 minutes, then put a little bit along the edge of the base tape and press them together. Mount on a rim and inflate hard overnight. Be sure everything is aligned properly before you walk away from it -- tire is in line, base tape is straight, etc., or you can induce a twist in the tire if the base tape is pulling the tire around slightly. Repairs like this have worked for months and this is what the mechanics on several of the pro teams are now using. Pliobond isn't quite as good for this but can be used as a substitute in a pinch -- it just makes the casing stiffer and probably won't last quite as long. And be sure to get fresh Barge cement -- the stuff gets thick after it's been open a while, and you only want a thin layer -- more and you'll have an uneven tire.

[Louis]

Guys, maybe I sound like a broken record, but I had to mention this.

I've been thinking about trying out tubulars for ages, and recently have been leaning farther in that direction than ever before. Then, as has happened in the past, a thread like this pops up and I think to myself "Boy, they sure sound like a lot of hassle." One of these days I'll have to try 'em, but so far I have been able to resist the temptation...

Good luck with the operation.

Louis

[regularguy412]

Guys, maybe I sound like a broken record, but I had to mention this.

I've been thinking about trying out tubulars for ages, and recently have been leaning farther in that direction than ever before. Then, as has happened in the past, a thread like this pops up and I think to myself "Boy, they sure sound like a lot of hassle." One of these days I'll have to try 'em, but so far I have been able to resist the temptation...

Good luck with the operation.

Louis

Don't let these threads put you off riding sew ups. I've ridden and raced on them off and on many years with practically NO problems. This is why I'm only now having to do base tape repairs. (I'm riding them even MORE now) It's not that the tires are old, I have just not had it happen before. Granted when I was diving into 180 degree off camber sweepers at 30 mph in crits, I only weighed 150 lbs. Now I'm 168 and still riding Conti Comp GP 19's. I've even raced a couple of Tuesday Nite World Championship Crits lately with my buddies and incurred no problems. However, tires 'do' wear out. There 'is' a slight bit more maintenance with sew ups, but the rewards are much greater. One really gets spoiled to riding on them.

The best advice I could give is to get good wheels/rims and the best tires you can afford. Mediocre sew ups are not as good as the best clinchers. The key is to take the best parts and learn to do a great glue job. I've occasionally seen some tires roll off in races. It's not a pretty sight. I was able to inspect the rider's wheel and tire after the crash (luckily they were going UPhill, so the speeds were negligible). There appeared to be almost NO glue on the mating surfaces.

I recently had to do an on-road switch of a rear tire due to a slow leak( tire has many miles). I almost couldn't get the tire off the rim , even when I had removed the tire half way around. (That's now why I have some base tape repair to do ; the glue job really stuck the tire on) If you use good parts and do a great glue-up, you'll be very pleased. Even when riding 19 mm tires, I've only had ONE pinch flat- ever!,, and that was due to running through the very center a small hole in the pavement at 25 mph (in a turn, couldn't avoid it, racing in a pack). The good news was that even in a turn and flatting, the tire didn't come off the rim! (Safety factor)

If nothing else,, see if one of your VERY good buddies already on sew ups will let you borrow his set to ride. If they're a good set, I predict you'll be hooked.

Mike in AR :beer:

[11.4]

Guys, maybe I sound like a broken record, but I had to mention this.

I've been thinking about trying out tubulars for ages, and recently have been leaning farther in that direction than ever before. Then, as has happened in the past, a thread like this pops up and I think to myself "Boy, they sure sound like a lot of hassle." One of these days I'll have to try 'em, but so far I have been able to resist the temptation...

Good luck with the operation.

Louis

Louis,

I guess I'd say that if you're the kind of guy who doesn't like to do any work on your bike (or on your car, for that matter), then tubulars aren't necessarily for you. If you like to work on the bike -- improve performance, upgrade parts, tweak stuff, maintenance, that kind of thing -- then tubulars are just a short initial learning curve. It's not like learning to reload shotgun shells, just like cleaning your gun after use -- there's pleasure in the maintenance. And the number of issues with tubulars is really pretty small. Lots of people are switching back to them now that great tubular rims and incredible tubulars are available (much better than were available even thirty years ago). So everyone's on a learning curve -- I certainly am -- and you're just in with everyone else. There's nothing wrong with riding clinchers, you just get some advantages in riding tubulars that may or may not mean a lot to you. Don't bother with cheap tubulars or cheap tubular wheels -- you are better off riding clinchers. But as suggested above, borrow a pair or steal them, and see how you like them.

[paczki]

Don't let these threads put you off riding sew ups. I've ridden and raced on them off and on many years with practically NO problems. This is why I'm only now having to do base tape repairs. (I'm riding them even MORE now) It's not that the tires are old, I have just not had it happen before. Granted when I was diving into 180 degree off camber sweepers at 30 mph in crits, I only weighed 150 lbs. Now I'm 168 and still riding Conti Comp GP 19's. I've even raced a couple of Tuesday Nite World Championship Crits lately with my buddies and incurred no problems. However, tires 'do' wear out. There 'is' a slight bit more maintenance with sew ups, but the rewards are much greater. One really gets spoiled to riding on them.

The best advice I could give is to get good wheels/rims and the best tires you can afford. Mediocre sew ups are not as good as the best clinchers. The key is to take the best parts and learn to do a great glue job. I've occasionally seen some tires roll off in races. It's not a pretty sight. I was able to inspect the rider's wheel and tire after the crash (luckily they were going UPhill, so the speeds were negligible). There appeared to be almost NO glue on the mating surfaces.

I recently had to do an on-road switch of a rear tire due to a slow leak( tire has many miles). I almost couldn't get the tire off the rim , even when I had removed the tire half way around. (That's now why I have some base tape repair to do ; the glue job really stuck the tire on) If you use good parts and do a great glue-up, you'll be very pleased. Even when riding 19 mm tires, I've only had ONE pinch flat- ever!,, and that was due to running through the very center a small hole in the pavement at 25 mph (in a turn, couldn't avoid it, racing in a pack). The good news was that even in a turn and flatting, the tire didn't come off the rim! (Safety factor)

If nothing else,, see if one of your VERY good buddies already on sew ups will let you borrow his set to ride. If they're a good set, I predict you'll be hooked.

Mike in AR :beer:

+1. If something happened to the bead on a clincher you'd have to throw it away. These you can fix. The only thing that sucks about tubulars is cleaning a glue-gunked rim. That sucks. But other than that it's way overstated.

Thanks 11.4 and regularguy412 for the info! Just got back from a ride on my Easton/Conti set. Sweeeeeet :banana:

[Louis]

I guess I'd say that if you're the kind of guy who doesn't like to do any work on your bike (or on your car, for that matter), then tubulars aren't necessarily for you. If you like to work on the bike -- improve performance, upgrade parts, tweak stuff, maintenance, that kind of thing -- then tubulars are just a short initial learning curve.

I hear what you're saying and it sounds pefectly reasonable to me. I do enjoy wrenching my own stuff and do nearly everthing, except wheelbuilding and pulling crown races. I haven't been able to convince myself to spend the money for the puller, and I don't mind paying my LBS a few bucks for that.

You put you finger on it when you say "improve performance." I'm an engineer and for stuff like this I think of it in terms of costs and benefits. Folks who ride sew-ups say that they love them, but is the increased hassle worth it? Most users say yes. I just wonder if most could tell the difference in ride a bilnd taste test. And speaking of ride, I have a number of very nice framesets in all sorts of materials, steel, Ti, composite, but over the last 6 years 99.9% of my miles have been on a $125 aluminum frame. I guess I'm just a Philistine and don't appreciate the finer things in life. ;)

One of these days I'll break down and buy a tubular wheelset and give it a try. Would a Mavic Reflex rim be a good place to start? If not, what do you suggest as a starter?

Thanks
Louis

[11.4]

I hear what you're saying and it sounds pefectly reasonable to me. I do enjoy wrenching my own stuff and do nearly everthing, except wheelbuilding and pulling crown races. I haven't been able to convince myself to spend the money for the puller, and I don't mind paying my LBS a few bucks for that.

You put you finger on it when you say "improve performance." I'm an engineer and for stuff like this I think of it in terms of costs and benefits. Folks who ride sew-ups say that they love them, but is the increased hassle worth it? Most users say yes. I just wonder if most could tell the difference in ride a bilnd taste test. And speaking of ride, I have a number of very nice framesets in all sorts of materials, steel, Ti, composite, but over the last 6 years 99.9% of my miles have been on a $125 aluminum frame. I guess I'm just a Philistine and don't appreciate the finer things in life. ;)

One of these days I'll break down and buy a tubular wheelset and give it a try. Would a Mavic Reflex rim be a good place to start? If not, what do you suggest as a starter?

Thanks
Louis

For starter wheels (but they're the same thing Tom Boonen rides at the spring classics), Shimano Dura Ace hubs with Ambrosio Nemesis rims. Go 32 or 28 holes for your weight, 3-cross rear and 2 or 3-cross front. For tires, try Veloflex Carbons if you want the best comparison without ridiculous cost. Or get Conti Competitions for much better puncture resistance (so you don't have to worry about tubular issues because those things simply don't puncture -- they are marginally less supple but you'll like the low maintenance most). Get the DA-7700 hubs for about $200 a pair or DA-7850 hubs for $300 a pair, add DT Competition double-butted spokes and the rims for under $200 more, then the tires for about $120 a pair (from Probikekit). Hard to beat. You might want to buy some carbon wheels later, but you'll never want to sell these. The Nemesis rims are sturdier and much more comfortable than carbon rims. If you don't like them you can sell them for what you paid for them.

[Louis]

Thanks again. I just created a "Tubular Info" directory on my C drive and put your post in a file. Having a good idea where to start will make the decision much easier.

Maybe my Christmas present to myself...

[tbushnel]

I've always used latex in the past, but tire manufacturers are changing the adhesives they use to bond the base tape to the tire. Conti in particular, since they had more problems than most. If I'm working with a high-end tubular such as Dugast or FMB, I'll still use latex, but for Contis, the latex has a tendency to bead up which tells me the original adhesive is something incompatible. The latex certainly doesn't work as well as it used to on Contis. So my current favorite is Barge Cement. This is used to glue soles onto hiking shoes, wading shoes, that kind of thing, so it puts up with all the wet, stress, whatever quite well. And it stays very flexible. Put a thin coat on each side (tape and casing), let it dry 15 minutes, then put a little bit along the edge of the base tape and press them together. Mount on a rim and inflate hard overnight. Be sure everything is aligned properly before you walk away from it -- tire is in line, base tape is straight, etc., or you can induce a twist in the tire if the base tape is pulling the tire around slightly. Repairs like this have worked for months and this is what the mechanics on several of the pro teams are now using. Pliobond isn't quite as good for this but can be used as a substitute in a pinch -- it just makes the casing stiffer and probably won't last quite as long. And be sure to get fresh Barge cement -- the stuff gets thick after it's been open a while, and you only want a thin layer -- more and you'll have an uneven tire.

Interesting. Glad I came across your post 11.4. I recently repaired a conti steher and noticed the latex didn't really stick well. I may have to repeat with the barge cement.
Any favorite source for the stuff?
ted.

[11.4]

Interesting. Glad I came across your post 11.4. I recently repaired a conti steher and noticed the latex didn't really stick well. I may have to repeat with the barge cement.
Any favorite source for the stuff?
ted.

I usually find it in a hardware store or Home Depot. Any flyfishing shop will have it for attaching felt soles to wading shoes. It comes in a tube on a cardboard display card.