Tyler - Velonews article

[jmc22]

Velonews sat down and chatted with Tyler, they printed some of the article online, the rest is on the paper version...
http://www.velonews.com/article/84106/in-an-interview-with-neal-rogers-tyler-hamilton-talks-about
I guess what strikes me as sad is it appears he choose his cycling career over his wife who was so much by his side during the ordeal....and I really want to know more about the Cycling Mafia!

[Acotts]

All Euro sports have their clicks and mafias. It in their nature.

It cant be any worse than the Serie A Italian Soccer League.

[paczki]

The Cycling Mafia must have framed him :rolleyes:

[girlie]

I only read the online version and not the full interview.
Hearing some of these racers stories is sad.....I think a lot of these people were put in no win situation both athletically and in their personal lives. Who could beat or avoid all of the obstacles placed in front of these athletes. Avoid them all; be successful at the sport and come out a complete person.
Glad Tyler has a team to race for and with that a direction - after so much misdirection.
As far as him and his soon to be ex-wife….cycling is a lonely sport imho.
I believe in the notion of a cycling mafia.....or some likeness of that idea.
girlie

[Viper]

Cycling is NO DIFFERENT than any other sport. I am exhausted of the cycling community thinking the sport is unique in it's sacrifices, commitments and demands.

Sport is sport.

Competition is competition.

Tiger Woods? Ben Hogan? Does Tyler or Lance work harder or endure more stress, strain? Lonely? Hitting golf balls, alone, taking divots isn't any more or less difficult. Sport is sport. The main difference is that professional cyclists are quite often spoiled primadonnas; perhaps their testosterone levels are so low that when a bucked up Texan comes along, they all shudder in fear. In reality, cycling is quite easy, as Lance says, "Sit down and pedal."

Life is filled with potholes, obstacles, sport is too. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head, these men and women chose this sport, they were lured to stay within it. Chicken/egg? Are lonely, tortured souls lured to the sadistic nature of the sport? Or are they created by it?

"We (he and his wife) struggled a lot, last year was the fourth year (since the positive doping test), and it’s almost like we made it through this dark cloud, but it almost took so much away from us … it almost drained us. By the time we got through it, we had no energy left towards our marriage" said Tyler Hamilton. Seems to me his doping played a large role in the undoing of his marriage. All cheaters lose something, even if they win.

[Michael Maddox]

Although I understand there are times when a couple shouldn't be married, it still pains me to see the rash of divorces in the world. Those in the cycling community should come as no surprise, but it makes me shake my head to see someone who has taken so much from someone--e.g., Lance, Tyler--and then be off when the tide turns. I can't respect a man for this, and it colors my opinions of them.

I long for the days when Tyler was our golden boy. This rebel-without-a-clue thing is just the pits.

[Viper]

Well said MM.

The sport seems to be filled with boys who act like boys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Fuy0w02OQ



:beer:

[dsteady]

Cycling is NO DIFFERENT than any other sport. I am exhausted of the cycling community thinking the sport is unique in it's sacrifices, commitments and demands.

Sport is sport.

Competition is competition.

Tiger Woods? Ben Hogan? Does Tyler or Lance work harder or endure more stress, strain? Lonely? Hitting golf balls, alone, taking divots isn't any more or less difficult. Sport is sport. The main difference is that professional cyclists are quite often spoiled primadonnas; perhaps their testosterone levels are so low that when a bucked up Texan comes along, they all shudder in fear. In reality, cycling is quite easy, as Lance says, "Sit down and pedal."

Life is filled with potholes, obstacles, sport is too. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head, these men and women chose this sport, they were lured to stay within it. Chicken/egg? Are lonely, tortured souls lured to the sadistic nature of the sport? Or are they created by it?

"We (he and his wife) struggled a lot, last year was the fourth year (since the positive doping test), and it’s almost like we made it through this dark cloud, but it almost took so much away from us … it almost drained us. By the time we got through it, we had no energy left towards our marriage" said Tyler Hamilton. Seems to me his doping played a large role in the undoing of his marriage. All cheaters lose something, even if they win.

I think the pressure of competition is equal across all sports, but I do think cyclists face some unique pressures. Diet is one of them. At the end of a lonely day practicing his swing Tiger Woods can sit down to a slice of chocolate cake if it pleases him and know that it isn't going throw off his training regimen. I'm always surprised how old professional cyclists look. I'll be looking at some guy on TV thinking he must be older than me (I'm 38) only to learn he's actually 28 or something.

I also think that what we're learning now is that there was a lot of indirect pressure for cyclists to dope. Maybe it wasn't a mandate of the team, but if they didn't dope, well maybe they wouldn't get rehired either. The problem is that doping raises the bar even for the domestiques who have no illusions about winning a GC. But still, to compete as a domestique on a team whose performance has been elevated at the top with doping they must also do it.

European sports in general seem to coddle their athletes, and I agree that there is more of a primadonna effect there.

daniel

[girlie]

I think the pressure of competition is equal across all sports, but I do think cyclists face some unique pressures. Diet is one of them. At the end of a lonely day practicing his swing Tiger Woods can sit down to a slice of chocolate cake if it pleases him and know that it isn't going throw off his training regimen. I'm always surprised how old professional cyclists look. I'll be looking at some guy on TV thinking he must be older than me (I'm 38) only to learn he's actually 28 or something.

I also think that what we're learning now is that there was a lot of indirect pressure for cyclists to dope. Maybe it wasn't a mandate of the team, but if they didn't dope, well maybe they wouldn't get rehired either. The problem is that doping raises the bar even for the domestiques who have no illusions about winning a GC. But still, to compete as a domestique on a team whose performance has been elevated at the top with doping they must also do it.

European sports in general seem to coddle their athletes, and I agree that there is more of a primadonna effect there.

daniel


Well put....the only other thing I would add is cyclists also have to worry about recovery on an obsessive level - even day to day training workouts and not just while racing. From keeping stress down, water intake, sleep, stretching, massage (which is not always fun) on and on. These rituals alone are exhausting of time and energy which gets stolen away from any idea of a normal lifestyle.
girlie

[Viper]

I think the pressure of competition is equal across all sports, but I do think cyclists face some unique pressures. Diet is one of them. At the end of a lonely day practicing his swing Tiger Woods can sit down to a slice of chocolate cake if it pleases him and know that it isn't going throw off his training regimen.

Horse race jockeys
Olympic wrestling*
Ballet
Dieting down is key

Sumo wrestling
Olympic weightlifting
Calories are key

Each sport requires, demands and has it's unique specifications. The countless stretching a gymnast or ballerina performs are no more or less difficult or demanding than George Hincapie's lean Thanksgiving Diet Cookbook atmo.

* = do you remember what Matthew Modine went through in Vision Quest? The training, the dancing, the women? It was brutal, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PpnQ7Iaqoc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BiC3OUNFqE&feature=related

Cyclists just hear, maybe, a bit too much of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu4Vcxh2tb4&feature=related

And the thing about Tiger is that he doesn't eat that chocolate cake. At least I suspect he doesn't. I'm going to watch Vision Quest this weekend.

[Viper]

Well put....the only other thing I would add is cyclists also have to worry about recovery on an obsessive level - even day to day training workouts and not just while racing. From keeping stress down, water intake, sleep, stretching, massage (which is not always fun) on and on. These rituals alone are exhausting of time and energy which gets stolen away from any idea of a normal lifestyle.
girlie

Wrestling is certainly equal to. And someone else can come along and tell me their sport is even more over the top than wrestling. I've done all sports and wrestling was the most demanding. No boys on the mat and no primadonnas at the top, just men trying to kill eachother, within reason. Bodybuilding isn't without it's fight in the debate of most demanding, recovery-necessary. Ritual? Imagine a gym full of Brian Shutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJtNsehdT5o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BiC3OUNFqE&feature=related

You better listen to Madonna, get a friend with a mohawk and get this soundtrack:

Track Listings
1. Only The Young - Journey
2. Change - John Waite
3. Shout To The Top - The Style Council
4. Gambler - Madonna
5. She's On The Zoom - Don Henley
6. Hungry For Heaven - Dio
7. Lunatic Fringe - Red Rider
8. I'll Fall In Love Again - Sammy Hagar
9. Hot Blooded - Foreigner
10. Crazy For You - Madonna


http://www.amazon.com/Vision-Quest-Original-Soundtrack-Picture/dp/B000000OPQ

[SadieKate]

And the thing about Tiger is that he doesn't eat that chocolate cake. At least I suspect he doesn't. John Daly ate it for him.

[Viper]

John Daly ate it for him.

Jan Ulrich stole it from Daly, he was coming down off some E and had the munchies. :)

[SadieKate]

Let's talk about boxing. Not only have to watch your weight, every time you step into a ring you are offering your brain as a physical target.

[Viper]

Let's talk about boxing. Not only have to watch your weight, every time you step into a ring you are offering your brain as a physical target.

+89

Leonard
Duran
Hagler
Rocky III

At the top, NO sport is more demanding than the other. Cyclists DON'T get this, they are all too often primadonnas. Tyler's marriage failed from EPO. Tyler's career failed from EPO. Tyler has this to jam to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgtWIx2zLtk


:)

[vjp]

"people" have done "things" to Tyler, then He should say WHO and WHAT. He is implying that HE is not responsible for decisions that he made. He will "name names" when it is convenient for his book sales.... LAME

[girlie]

I agree that every sport has it's unique rituals - and with those rituals a level of discipline and love has to be present. Though there was a time when athletes entering sport were unaware of the additional pressure hidden within the systems. That time was not long ago. I will feel empathy for all competitors when following the rituals and simply being an athlete is not enough.
The sport is irrelevant.
girlie

[girlie]

"people" have done "things" to Tyler, then He should say WHO and WHAT. He is implying that HE is not responsible for decisions that he made. He will "name names" when it is convenient for his book sales.... LAME

Not if he wants to continue riding his bike. Basically not until either the system is ready or it not longer can harm his life.
girlie

[Viper]

Demands? Stress? The real winner is the man or woman who goes to work, raises a family, teaches their kids to tell the truth as they do the same. Now, more than ever, the real heroes aren't on the bike, juiced up on EPO, whining about their loss, no, they're in a picture frame on your wall, smiling:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj6O-HD0SlI


See the moon roll across the stars
See the seasons turn like a heart
Your father's days are lost to you
This is your time here to do what you will do

Your life is now your life is now your life is now
In this undiscovered moment
Lift your head up above the crowd
We could shake this world
If you would only show us how
Your life is now

Would you teach your children to tell the truth
Would you take the high road if you could choose
Do you believe you're a victim of a great compromise
'Cause I believe you could change your mind and change our lives

(repeat chorus)

Would you teach your children to tell the truth
This is your time here to do what you will do

[crossjunkee]

I didn't know he split with his wife, that sucks!

Nice post Viper.

[LegendRider]

The lesson in the Tyler story is lying can have long-lasting and unintended consequences. He went from one of the most likable pro cyclists to one of the most disliked; his name is synomous with doping; and it appears his marriage has failed. He's got so much invested in the lie, that it is unlikely he'll ever admit his wrongdoing. It's a terrible shame for him and his family.

* I know some believe he's innocent. But, if so, it's one of the best frame jobs in history. That is the ONLY explanation for the invoice from Fuentes and the doping scheduled that nicely coincides with his major wins. If I was framed, I'd release my bank records to prove I never transferred money to a Swiss account owned by a Spanish doctor. Yet, Tyler has never offered to do that.

[Keith A]

Although I understand there are times when a couple shouldn't be married, it still pains me to see the rash of divorces in the world. Those in the cycling community should come as no surprise, but it makes me shake my head to see someone who has taken so much from someone--e.g., Lance, Tyler--and then be off when the tide turns. I can't respect a man for this, and it colors my opinions of them.

I long for the days when Tyler was our golden boy. This rebel-without-a-clue thing is just the pits.Well said!

[Kirk Pacenti]

Cycling is NO DIFFERENT than any other sport. I am exhausted of the cycling community thinking the sport is unique in it's sacrifices, commitments and demands.

Sport is sport.

Competition is competition.

Tiger Woods? Ben Hogan? Does Tyler or Lance work harder or endure more stress, strain? Lonely? Hitting golf balls, alone, taking divots isn't any more or less difficult. Sport is sport. The main difference is that professional cyclists are quite often spoiled primadonnas; perhaps their testosterone levels are so low that when a bucked up Texan comes along, they all shudder in fear. In reality, cycling is quite easy, as Lance says, "Sit down and pedal."

Life is filled with potholes, obstacles, sport is too. Nobody put a gun to anyone's head, these men and women chose this sport, they were lured to stay within it. Chicken/egg? Are lonely, tortured souls lured to the sadistic nature of the sport? Or are they created by it?

"We (he and his wife) struggled a lot, last year was the fourth year (since the positive doping test), and it’s almost like we made it through this dark cloud, but it almost took so much away from us … it almost drained us. By the time we got through it, we had no energy left towards our marriage" said Tyler Hamilton. Seems to me his doping played a large role in the undoing of his marriage. All cheaters lose something, even if they win.

post of the month.

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[girlie]

I view some of the racers who have doped as having done so with a defensive stance and not an offensive one, for survival in the sport not to prosper. Of course there are exceptions.
I think a lot of these athletes begin to have something missing at the point when they ‘have to’ realize that a sport they love and have dedicated their existence to is corrupt. Then they are presented with a dilemma - not a choice as some call it – a dilemma.

Dilemma
noun - a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives.

Times are changing and, more and more, riders are being given choices - real choices. Choices that provide the racers with functioning options with real opportunity to continue in the sport clean. Instead of the old method of taking the ‘high road’ by being forced into retirement and exile from a sport you love and are good at......saying to yourself - "If only it were clean."

Those were no kind of choices, those were ultimatums.

girlie

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[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I know of a lot of guys who are NOT pro cyclists, were NOT accused of doping, and have NOT been through half of what Tyler has been through, guilty or not. And THEIR marriages failed, too.

Cut the guy some slack, fer' Christ's sake! Just because he may be a denying doper doesn't mean he was a bad husband and doesn't mean the breakup was necessarily his fault. We don't know all the facts and never will.

BBD

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[girlie]

The sad thing is that the cyclists being outed now aren't just the old school guys: Ricco' was the supposed heir to Pantani (in skill, not drugs), he had a great future ahead of him and he wasted it. His friend and rival Sella called him stupid and irresponsible. It's a drag thinking, "Right on, Emmanuele." but then wondering if he'll be next.


Yeah, times are changing but not all the racers are able to get it together.....I'm not saying it's all clean but the care free approach of yesteryear is gone....so stupid and irresponsible might just mean - bushed.


I really hope the new generation does hold true it's promise. I did like Tyler a lot, but that whole party is over now....

Whose promise...there needs to be some promises made to the racers.
girlie

[Michael Maddox]

Perhaps you're correct, BBD. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt, but given my observations of other men in divorces, I don't think I'm wrong. I perceive him taking a too-easy escape, although one certainly socially normal these days. I'm sure there is guilt on the other side of the equation, too, as in any relationship. There are too many Hollywood romances out there that seem to fall apart in the face of pressure. Given Tyler's "new look," it's easy to characterize him as smitten by his image and eager to capitalize on the social possibilities. This may be hasty and incorrect, but gut feelings are pretty hard to ignore.

"Giving him a break" would mean essentially not talking about him at all. Although he's been judged guilty of doping, should we continue "giving him a break" and acting as though his suspension never occurred? Is a rider's character a valid topic for this forum?

I hope I don't sound like an ass, since I certainly like you BBD, but I don't really want to give Tyler a break. Since the quoted article discusses Tyler personally as well as a cyclist, it's relevant to the topic at hand. My post was not an attack, just my own perception of what Tyler Hamilton has become. I'm not happy about it.

I feel much the same about Lance, and it makes it hard for me to support his good work in cancer research.

[benb]

I don't give a break to anyone who dopes and then expresses some kind of notion of "I had to do it to survive."

They all chose to do it. The option to quit and come back and race amateur or something in the US and get a real job was always there.

No tragic hard decision in any of this.. they chose to do it so they could continue to "play" for a living.

Tyler has been demonized enough though.. he really doesn't deserve to continue to be beaten like a dead horse.

It's like the fans love to bash him and it somehow makes them feel better about cycling to talk sh*t about him so they can ignore the fact that all their new heroes are just as bad if not worse. Tyler/Jan/Pantani/whoever all doped while keeping their mouths shut and pretending doping didn't exist. Now we have a bunch of cyclists who are probably still doping but they sit their and brag about how clean they are.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not asking anyone to not talk about the doping. It pains me to admit that my early trust and faith in his denials were almost certainly misplaced. But it is what it is. I think now that he did it. His continuing denials are indeed sad.

But the divorce is a different matter altogether. In his doping case we heard all the accusations and evidence from both sides. I've only heard one side of the divorce--his. Given that I've had a marriage of my own break up, and several relationships since, for reasons that still baffle me. (Please everyone--no zebra suit jokes) For that reason I'm reluctant to pry into speculating on whatever may have happened in his marriage.

Regardless of whatever he may have done in cycling, I think he deserves to be left alone about this one, as I think just about any man would want to be. I read the whole story in the the print edition, and I admire the guy for even talking about it, particularly since I saw nothing in his remarks on it that would indicate hostility or accusations. I saw only sadness and bafflement. I can identify with that. Please give him a break on that. for all we know, he really, honestly did the best he could. How many of us have looked back on past relationships and regretted some of the decisions we made and actions we took? How many of us have learned the hard way that all we can really do is learn from our mistakes and make a commitment not to repeat them next time around? We have no evidence that he's not doing the same thing.

I also would rather not compare Tyler with Lance in the marriage department. Lance had three small children out of his marriage and his post-marriage romantic escapades have been reported ad nauseum--accurately or not--in a hundred different gossip columns. His eye for the ladies would seem to be a well-established fact

Tyler and Haven had no kids (and please, everyone, also hold the stale "Tugboat" jokes) and I've never seen, heard, or read anything about Tyler having a roving eye or other body parts. Absent any further info on that, I say leave him alone about the marriage. Regardless of his doping performance, he's served his time, he's won the national championship verifiably clean, and he's been dumped on enough.

BBD

[Peter P.]

I guess what strikes me as sad is it appears he choose his cycling career over his wife who was so much by his side during the ordea

What do you think Lance did?!

[oldfatslow]

Sorry to hear about Tyler and Haven. Of all the things he's lost I would think his wife would be the one he'd miss the most.

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[Viper]

I view some of the racers who have doped as having done so with a defensive stance and not an offensive one, for survival in the sport not to prosper. Of course there are exceptions.
I think a lot of these athletes begin to have something missing at the point when they ‘have to’ realize that a sport they love and have dedicated their existence to is corrupt. Then they are presented with a dilemma - not a choice as some call it – a dilemma.

Dilemma
noun - a situation requiring a choice between equally undesirable alternatives.

Times are changing and, more and more, riders are being given choices - real choices. Choices that provide the racers with functioning options with real opportunity to continue in the sport clean. Instead of the old method of taking the ‘high road’ by being forced into retirement and exile from a sport you love and are good at......saying to yourself - "If only it were clean."

Those were no kind of choices, those were ultimatums.

girlie

Why is it that people from Vermont are such fans of individual's rights and chant out, demanding them, but speak much less so about individual accountability? Some people are built to work in a drug clinic, offering pure empathy, understanding the gray area, others have the moral code to work in the courtroom, where it's black, white, right and wrong. Maple syrup is either pure or processed, Vermont knows syrup.

While it's been illegal for many years now, it will always be morally wrong for an athlete to use a drug designed to assist cancer patients, those who are fighting death and yes, there is data which begs the question, can using EPO actually cause cancer (or mask it like it may have with Lance)?

Skin.
Needle.
Needle in.
Damage done.
Neil Young.

"Recent studies, however, suggest that the guidelines for prescribing Epo to cancer patients may need to be reviewed. A 2003 Epo trial conducted by Johnson & Johnson investigated the effects of Epo treatment for the prevention of anemia on the survival of non-anemic, metastatic breast cancer patients. Due to an observed higher mortality rate among the group treated with Eprex, concerns were raised that Epo may have an adverse effect on survival and the study was terminated.5 A subsequent study conducted by Hoffman-La Roche on anemic head-and-neck cancer patients found that while epoetin beta was successful in correcting anemia, it failed to improve, and may even impair, cancer control and survival.6...The unexpected results of several clinical studies in which Epo was used to treat cancer patients have now raised the question of a potential direct growth-promoting action of Epo on cancer cells."

http://www.rndsystems.com/cb_detail_objectname_SP04_Erythropoietin.aspx

http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/2007/395/pe38

[girlie]

Why is it that people from Vermont are such fans of individual's rights and chant out, demanding them, but speak much less so about individual accountability? Some people are built to work in a drug clinic, offering pure empathy, understanding the gray area, others have the moral code to work in the courtroom, where it's black, white, right and wrong.

Skin.
Needle.
Needle in.
Damage done.
Neil Young.

Accountability is not my job.....it is the job of the courts and systems.
I don't believe in double punishment.
Leave it to the courts.
Tyler paid his dues.
I have empathy for ****ty situations.
Don't you love my state:D

girlie

epo = preexisting not development of....try again.

[Viper]

Accountability is not my job.....it is the job of the courts and systems.
I don't believe in double punishment.
Leave it to the courts.
Tyler paid his dues.
I have empathy for ****ty situations.
Don't you love my state:D

girlie

No, but I dig good syrup.

Are hostesses, waiters and waitresses available to be attacked, morally? :)

[Viper]

epo = preexisting not development of....try again.


http://www.rndsystems.com/cb_detail...hropoietin.aspx

http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/cont...t/2007/395/pe38

But what's your point?


:beer: = glasses filled with pure syrup.