tubular neophyte

[Climb01742]

ok. picked up my first set of tubulars last night. vittorias on zipp 202s. the cool thing is, they're freaky light. the scary thing is, they're tubulars. clinchers i know inside out. tubs...i'm a dope. any tips you'd give a tub neophyte?

like should i pre-stretch the spare tubs? any tips on putting a new tub on out on the road? how many spare tubs do you guys ride with, 1 or 2? any tricks for carrying spares out on the road? what questions am i too dumb to know to ask? ;) thanks for your help.

[William]

I'm in the same boat as you climb so I'll be listening/watching. I was told over the phone yesterday (when I asked about getting a tub flat and getting home) that you carry a spare, change it over, and then ride home carefully. Why? I was told that the glue, while still tacky, will not hold the tire like it did when you glued on the original. So, head straight home gingerly. :confused:

What's the scoop on this? Carry the extreme tape as well?

William

:)

[bostondrunk]

ok. picked up my first set of tubulars last night. vittorias on zipp 202s. the cool thing is, they're freaky light. the scary thing is, they're tubulars. clinchers i know inside out. tubs...i'm a dope. any tips you'd give a tub neophyte?

like should i pre-stretch the spare tubs? any tips on putting a new tub on out on the road? how many spare tubs do you guys ride with, 1 or 2? any tricks for carrying spares out on the road? what questions am i too dumb to know to ask? ;) thanks for your help.

Fold up the spare and keep it under your saddle with an old toe clip pedal strap.
Stretching tubies simply makes it a little easier to mount. When mounting, use the toes over rim method and yank the sucker on. I recommend glue over tape, but thats personal preference. I've also read of people having problems with the tape bunching up when trying to stretch the tubie onto the rim.
Congrats, and enjoy your first set of real wheels. :) :beer:

[Too Tall]

If it was not obvious. Put some glue on the spare, let it flash dry and refold. Keeping some glue on the spare will hold it pretty darn well if you need to change one in the field. Tape? Ick! Use sandwhich baggies to protect your finger while spreading glue or get a bunch of el cheapo small brushes. Go easy with da glue. Coverage is more important than quantity. If you make a mess let it dry and pick it off. DO NOT use solvent to clean up your wheel or tire. The fumes will destroy base tape bond...a bad thing...been there done that.

Read the tubular advice on www.nimble.net They have good advice in general. The Zipp website also had good info.

"In the day" if you knew others on the ride would be on tubs...derrr....than you only carried one. Now, I carry two. One goes under the saddle as Jerkissimo described and second in your middle pocket.

Last. Beg some trashed tub rims to store your spares and give them a final stretch by hand / foot just before you put the base coat on the tape...let it flash and than install.

www.yellowjersey.org sells 3 Clement Strada TTs for $50.

[jeffg]

I'm in the same boat as you climb so I'll be listening/watching. I was told over the phone yesterday (when I asked about getting a tub flat and getting home) that you carry a spare, change it over, and then ride home carefully. Why? I was told that the glue, while still tacky, will not hold the tire like it did when you glued on the original. So, head straight home gingerly. :confused:


:)

This is why the whole idea of tubulars is scary to me. I know now I live in much flatter country, but in CA I went on climbs with technical descents almost every ride. I would not want to be descending somewhere in the Santa Cruz Mountains and need to change a tire and then descend something like Page Mill Road. Everytime I think of getting tubulars I think of me doing a Beloki on a spare tub. Perhaps I am being irrational, but it freaks me out. Thoughts?

[Climb01742]

clearly the key is just to never flat. :rolleyes: jeff, i'll be nervous riding my new tubs for quite a while, i think. guess i'm a wuss, too.

[Jack Brunk]

The ride qualities will far out way any issues with a rare flat. If you use tube spooze in the tires, you shouldn't have to change a tire unless you get a tear of at least 1/2" wide or long. I take one spare on long training rides and two spares on double centuries. As mentioned above, get an old rim and keep a couple spares stretched. Good luck and enjoy!


Jack

[Climb01742]

jack, ok, dumb question, how do you get the spooze in the tire? especially if you're using a value extender? and where do you get spooze? thanks.

[Jack Brunk]

Spooze is made by rock-in-roll lube. I believe the web site was mentioned in one of the other threads. Take the valve extensions off and slowly force in the spooze. About two oz's is all you need. I can send you some if you can't find it. I think the price is $7.95 for a 4 oz bottle.


Jack

[Too Tall]

Got yer back Jack !

Rock 'N' Roll Lubrication
P.O. Box 191160
Boise, ID 83719
Phone: 208-672-0911

www.rocklube.com

[Jack Brunk]

Thanks TOO TALL

Jack

[Too Tall]

No thank you. I could not help myself and gave Mark (Rock n' Roll) a jingle...ended up buying spooge and some lube. It was an interesting talk. Mark would not sell me the spooge until I talked to the one shop he knew of that had actually used it in high pressure tubeless road tyres. Ha ha Mark also made a bet with me...can't reveal the nature of it just yet.

[Jack Brunk]

I use the lube also and it is the best lube that I have used to date. What shop did you call? I wonder because My LBS had conversations with them about using it in road tires. I was the first person from the shop to try it and I am sure glad I did.

Jack

[theprep]

Climb

You have to be careful when carrying a tubular tire under your seat. If you just coil it up under there, the sidewall rubber could rub away on the seat rails and expose the casing/cords.

I fold as follows:

-lay tire on flat, clean surface
-Rubber side down, tape side up
-pull tire tight with valve at one folded end
-you should have two parallel strips of tape, right next to each other staring back at you
-start folding at the non-valve end
-fold over maybe the first 4", and continue to fold until you reach the valve end
-You should always have rubber against the tape as you fold and never tape against tape because it will stick due to the glue.
-when you strap the tire to the underside of the seat the rubber will be contacting the seat rails and protect the tire casing.
-the base tape will be nicely protected from road grime as well
-If done correctly you will have a small little bundle under the seat, smaller and less noticable than a saddle bag.


Upon re-reading I am not sure this proceedure makes any sense. If it does not, let me know and I will illustrate with some photos.

OR

Throw tire in your Jersey pocket

OR

Carry in saddle bag

Good Luck!

[dbrk]

I've glued tubulars for, oh, about the past hundred years and a few years ago I gave up. Why? For all the stuff about how much better they are than clinchers I just don't feel that way anymore. However, I do love the ride and what has brought sew-ups back into my life is Tufo tape.

This stuff works, it is not the least bit messy, and I have had not one problem with it. I can recommend it as the solution to any wet glue. Plus, there is some talk about it making it hard to remove a tire. Well, that too is not my experience. You put on the tape, put on the tire, and ride safely. If you flat, you pry under, lift, off it comes. I don't use the super duper version so I can't speak about that but the regular has caused me no problems over hundreds of miles. I feel safe and enjoy tubulars again.

Tubulars are, of course, a theological matter and so you will find strong, absolutist opinions much like you do in America these days about many, many issues.

dbrk
considering a move to Canada...

[amg]

Hi Guys,

Has anyone tried both the regular Tufo tape and the extreme version? Any differences in application or how well they bond a tubular to the rim?

Thanks,

Antonio :beer:

[Too Tall]

when you get serious about that move look at a place with room for two farm houses bub.

Theological but not a "moral" decision agreed?

I am pretty much 100% switched over to tubulars now. Only one wheelset still have clinchers. I'll report back my experience with the tube spooge soonest.

Does this mean I have to stop making fun of Canadians? Oof da.

[jerk]

dbrk-here's what mrs. jerk had to say concerning a potential move of the jerk household:

Many of my liberal friends are seriously discussing leaving the country, for Canada or Europe or New Zealand. It is, of course, tempting. How could we not feel a violent disillusionment and disconnect when we discovered this morning that the majority of voters in the country have a worldview we cannot comprehend? That hate and fear and ignorance can run a successful presidental campaign; that people will respond to these things with eager glee?

And if I wasn't tempted before leaving the house, one look at my car with its Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker -- the only car with such a sticker in the lot -- and how overnight it suddenly acquired a political statement consisting of eggs and shaving cream -- the only car in the lot so decorated -- certainly pushed me in that direction. I imagine the decorators (or their parents) voted on "moral values," as so many Bush supporters did.

But I'm not going to leave, and I made a list of reasons why.

Because this is my country.

Because I'm not letting them have New England autumns, New Mexico sunsets, the Grand Canyon, or Revere Beach.

Because Barack Obama, Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank and a few other stalwarts are isolated enough in a Capitol gone mad without their supporters pulling up and getting out.

Because over a million people voted for Alan Keyes, and that means even in Illinois we can't relax.

Because Massachusetts elected a far-right religious zealot in a gubernatorial race no one bothered to vote in.

Because I do, honestly, want my kids to be American citizens.

Because 200 years ago Americans believed in a separation of church and state, and if there's one thing we seem to be good at, it's regression.

Because we have to speak up even if they're not coming for us personally yet. We're educated and energized and relatively financially secure, and there are a lot of people out there who are none of those things and are at least initially going to suffer far more than we are. We have to speak for them if they can't speak for themselves.

Because this is still my country, and being female and pro-choice and pro-gay rights and an environmentalist and a pacifist and a believer in intelligent leaders and an atheist does not make me un-American or unpatriotic -- and that needs to be screamed from the ****ing rooftops.

Because they vandalized my ****ing car, and that is their level of discourse.

Because I am not afraid anymore. I am angry.

[Climb01742]

yes, mrs jerk, but what's your view of tubulars? :rolleyes:

one side of america's political spectrum has articulated their views well. frighteningly well, to me, but well.

the other side simply did not articulate, argue and promote a pluralistic, tolerant, open-minded, enlightened, respectful, ethical point of view. luckily there are two documents that put forth cogent visions of the america i believe in. the constitution and the declaration of independence. personally i plan on staying and fighting for the america that those two documents envision. karl rove may be smart. but thomas jefferson was smarter.

ok, back to cycling... :D

ps: mrs jerk, does karl rove look like a bug to you? he does to me. :rolleyes:

[Too Tall]

Smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place.....

I'm speechless. Thank G-d the single malt isn't all gone.

[oracle]

kudos to mrs. jerk. what an eloquent and powerful argument she has stated. there's a good head on her shoulders.

oracle

[William]

My wife and I at one point seriously looked into moving to New Zealand. It was before our kids were born, before it became popular from the Hercules/Zena/LOTR exsposure, and had nothing to do with political motivations....though it's looking very inviting again. ;)

An interesting take on the current red/blue split. "The Great Divide"

www.retrovsmetro.org

Now:
Tape vs Glue? What say you Tubies?

Tube spooze
Tube spooze
Tube spooze
This is fun...
Tube spooze
Tube spooze
Tube spooze
:D

William

[zap]

Gees, stick to tuby discussion. Take it from me, the grass ain't greener on the other side.

Beside's, we need (and hope) to keep everybody here. Helps to keep everything as close to "centre" as possible.

I saw a quote someone posted on Velonews forum. Just recently went there for no good reason, but saw this.....

"the essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity" Albert Maysles

I like the "denial of complexity" part. ;)

My 10 bucks......

Back to tubulars........... :)

[PhatMatt]

Revere Beach and New Zealand in the same thread?!? Two great places on this strange planet we inhabit. We really could not do without either. My kids in particular love that beach and I have a huge soft spot for the entire country of New Zealand although if they know what's good for them they wouldn't take any of us wacky Americans...and why would they? We have proven again and again that we are not trustworthy nor particularly interested in anyone else's opinion that doesn't parrot ours.

How many evangelical Christians in New Zealand anyway? Might be lonely there.

[Matt Barkley]

The "regular" Tufo tape was all I used for about a year. Easier during the mounting proccess but... Really messy after you flat and have to think about remounting another tire. Impossible (almost) to get off the rims after use.

The Tufo Etreme tape is easier to use, mount, and clean. Actually you just have to pull the tape off. Really easy. - Matt

[jerk]

mrs. jerk does not care whether her bicycle has tubulars or clinchers as the jerk is responsible for all flat tires regardless of whose bike it occurs on. for the moment mrs. jerk's steed rides upon pariba clinchers which ride upon mavic open pros laced to chorus hubs with strange and horrible lacing patterns resulting from bizare spoke inventory at maison jerk. (crows foot drive side, cross two non drive side, three cross front...awesome.) don't even ask which of the spokes are dt swiss and which are sapim cx rays....

jerk

[Matt Barkley]

Are they still making twisties up there?

.....Rolled a Pariba clincher once in a crit in Roanoke. Beautiful clinchers - nice riding too - if they stay on your rims.

Who wants to move to France besides myself?

Just got some Cane Creek Pro carbon tuby wheels... Probably sell em'.

[Too Tall]

ME! And I know this nice little town in Provence that has houses for sale for not alot.

Pssst. After 100 miles (total) the slime I was using in my TUFO road elite went POP! Was running 120psi. Spooge is on deck.

[William]

Another dose of advice from BIG MAC on sew-ups & clinchers. Again, from the "Big wheels or wheels for the Big " thread.

William :)

BIG MAC says:
I'm not really looking to "convince" you to change your ways, I merely suggest you try a quality sewup and let the experience do the convincing. During my frequent travels i often ride loaner bikes and I can assure you the minute I take the initial pedal stroke and just the slightest nudge on the bars, I can identify whether the bike I am riding has clinchers or sewups. If its clinchers I just do not enjoy the experience of riding nearly as much.

I would like to correct a misnomer you seemed to have acquired regarding sewups, clinchers are FAR more prone to roll-off than a sewup. Pro's still use sewups predominantly, by a very wide margin. In fact, many teams and vendors go to great lengths to disguise a sewup to appear like the sponsors' clincher tire for marketing-sponsorship reasons. Why are sewups the pro's tire of choice? Reduced rolling resistance, ride quality and cornering ability are important but somewhat minor factors from race support standpoint. The primary reason is that when a clincher punctures, it flats in under 30 seconds and is basically unrideable. If one was to be descending at high speeds, a puncture could very likely cause a roll-off and very severe crash. Conversely, short of a blown casing, a sewup puncture will cause a very slow leak allowing the rider to continue racing for several minutes while race support vehicle can provide wheel replacement assistance. This alone can save 2 or more minutes for a single rider. A sewup is in fact glued to the rim but that is actually a supplemental retention system. The primary retention is the tires inflation pressure. Unlike a wire-on where the higher the psi, the greater the pressure on bead and casing to prevent dismount, a sewup actually increases it grip on rim as psi increases.

If you're worried about glue softening due to brake induced heat build-up, the easiest response is to improve your descending skills such that you will not need to brake as often. You should basically never use a rim brake enough to cause excessive heat build up in racing or hard training conditions, this is only a concern for loaded touring bike riders. Not good enough? If front brake begins to feel soft or fade due to said heat build up, use a H2O bottle and apply 2-3 light, steady squirts at backside of forkcrown.

Joseba's roll-off was in fact a sewup however it is my understanding from 2 of the now former Once mechanics that the tire in question had flatted prior to the roll-off. This is based on some unscientific video review but primarily a close examination of the tire in question which had a severely punctured casing when examined. Interestingly (or frighteningly as it were), Joseba does not recall much of the actual events leading to his crash.

Enough about sewups v clinchers, the modern clincher is infinitely better than the clinchers of old and if you're happy with'em, no problem. Find a local wheelsmith and have them lace up a set using the Bontrager assyemtric rim in rear, you should have trouble free wheels for many thousands of miles. I would encourage you to use a local wheelsmith only. I would personally never recommend any mail order/online wheelsmith to anyone, but for someone your size it would be even more critical. Big guys like you are hard on all wheels, no matter the quality of build. An occasional tweak or trueing is to be expected, many local wheelsmiths will either not touch a wheel they did not build or will charge a very high fee for any adjustments and offer no warranty for said work. If its a good local wheelsmith, they will provide spoke repairs/replacements at no charge along with any adjustments on wheels they have originally built. Check with local cycling clubs for the referrals, there is usually 1 or 2 local wheelsmiths who's name and reputation exceeds all others. If you are located in SF BayArea, the best wheelsmith is in Berkeley, I'll be happy to give you his name if you require.

[zap]

I agree with everything stated in Big Mac's reponse with the possible exception to rolling resistance. My understanding is that clinchers have better rolling resistance.

My current tufo tubi's seem slower compared to my clincher wheelsets, but am not sure if it's the AC hubs or tires :confused:

And what are the differences between tubi glues/tape?

BTW, new tubless clinchers will have even better rolling resistance. Off roadies have been using them for some time now and have nothing but praise for this technology.

[bostondrunk]

While not science....I believe most of the pros still use tubulars most of the time. Especially on the carbon wheels that so many of them use now.
So.....if clinchers really had a noticable advantage in rolling resistance, would they really be using tubies in the pro ranks? Beer for thought....<burp>

[LegendRider]

Tom Wolfe in an interview with the Guardian:

"Indeed, I was at a similar dinner, listening to the same conversation [anti-Bush rantings], and said: 'If all else fails, you can vote for Bush.' People looked at me as if I had just said: 'Oh, I forgot to tell you, I am a child molester.' I would vote for Bush if for no other reason than to be at the airport waving off all the people who say they are going to London if he wins again. Someone has got to stay behind."