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View Full Version : Who else finds this group ugly?


SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 12:03 PM
I still think the 7800 group is the best looking group ever produced...

Just one mans opinion...your results may vary,

Steve

cadence90
10-05-2008, 12:06 PM
Ugly.

I can think of several Campa groups which I think are more elegant.
I have never equated elegance with Shimano, though, just function.
I think Campa oftens strives to meld both.

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 12:08 PM
Ugly.

I can think of several Campa groups which I think are more elegant.I have never equated elegance with Shimano, though, just function.
I think Campa oftens strives to meld both.

Of the Campy carbon groups, I for one have never been a fan of uni-directional carbon..Im a weave guy, myself.

Just sayin'

Steve

stuckey
10-05-2008, 12:08 PM
The crankset is what really kills it for me, maybe the rest will grow on me.

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 12:10 PM
The crankset is what really kills it for me, maybe the rest will grow on me.

Yeah, what were they thinking???!!!

Gothard
10-05-2008, 12:10 PM
I don't think it is ugly. It did away with the exposed cables, which were a big no-no for me. It is not electrical, which might be a last for Shimano, and the crank tries a more flowing and integrated look. May be in my future.

jhcakilmer
10-05-2008, 12:13 PM
I think it looks okay......the group looks more refined, and not as bloated as the 7800, especially the crankset......looks like it went on a diet.

I know a lot of guys like the "silver" look, and I like it too, but I like that Shimano is trying something new.......actually quite a few things.......two tone anodizing, internal cable routing, CF (is that a dirty word) etc...

Heck if you want a simple, silver group, just buy the Ultegra.

cadence90
10-05-2008, 12:13 PM
Of the Campy carbon groups, I for one have never been a fan of uni-directional carbon..Im a weave guy, myself.

Just sayin'

Steve
I wasn't necessarily (nor exclusively) talking about Campa carbon.

And I agree with stuckey: that crankset is nasty; there are other Shimano cranksets which are nicer, to me, as well as Campa Record-10 alloy, and even several TA cranks.

Just sayin': I'm not a Shimano guy in general.

stuckey
10-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Yeah, what were they thinking???!!!

That was my first thought, maybe the crankset will go away after this year.

Ahneida Ride
10-05-2008, 12:23 PM
Fugly ...

BdaGhisallo
10-05-2008, 12:31 PM
I am mostly with you Steve. That 7900 crank is not terribly pretty. The rest of the group isn't too bad. I quite like the sti levers and the rest I am mostly indifferent about.

I may be in a very small minority here, but I think the 7800 crank is one of the most beautiful cycling components I have ever seen!

Climb01742
10-05-2008, 12:32 PM
the beauty of shimano is in how it works. i want my bike to be beautiful. i want my grouppo to work flawlessly.

sn69
10-05-2008, 12:37 PM
Ugly.

I can think of several Campa groups which I think are more elegant.
I have never equated elegance with Shimano, though, just function.
I think Campa oftens strives to meld both.

I think this gruppo would look fine on a tri bike or any of the less-than-aesthetic/artisan bikes that seem to be popping out of Taiwanese molds these days. But, yes, it lacks elegance.

Humorously, this gruppo and the collective reveal at Interbike sparked a huge conflaguration at the Slowtwitch forum about whether one should factor aesthetics in bike buying. It was funny to watch the argument develop. Reminded me of a ride about a year ago when I watched a guy on a Felt B2 with Zipp 404 wheels pull off, into a spray wand car wash place and, still in his kit with his helmet on, feed quarters into the machine in order to spray his drivetrain down and his delicate Zipp hubs. It was a jaw-droppingly stupid, but if he has the $ to burn, so be it. I'm guessing he'd fall in line with the function over form argument.

But I digress. Yes, this gruppo is in the eye of the beholder. Frankly, I find neither it nor Ultegra SL particularly bad, but I wish there would be a renewed market segment for shiny silver components. ...That aren't Nitto--nothing against them, but I'd like light weight in addition to great looks.

Thus:
Campa = Grace Kelly
Shimano = 1977 Dodge Aspen Stationwagon with a Slant Six engine

;)

jthurow
10-05-2008, 12:52 PM
I think the lines of the crank (and rd and brakes) are great but the mix of dark and light anodization does nothing for me. I saw some interbike pics that made the components look black; wasn't sure if it was the lighting or a one-off anodization job but it looks much better all one color. I'd prefer the color to be shiny silver but that's just me...

jimi

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 01:04 PM
I am mostly with you Steve. That 7900 crank is not terribly pretty. The rest of the group isn't too bad. I quite like the sti levers and the rest I am mostly indifferent about.

I may be in a very small minority here, but I think the 7800 crank is one of the most beautiful cycling components I have ever seen!

I agree with you 110%!

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 01:05 PM
I don't think it is ugly. It did away with the exposed cables, which were a big no-no for me. It is not electrical, which might be a last for Shimano, and the crank tries a more flowing and integrated look. May be in my future.

This may be the ONLY component I would consider changing out...I have heard that they are NOT compatible with the older fr. der. but they are with everything else...

Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

Steve

Elefantino
10-05-2008, 02:05 PM
I don't think it is ugly. It did away with the exposed cables, which were a big no-no for me. It is not electrical, which might be a last for Shimano, and the crank tries a more flowing and integrated look. May be in my future.
I never understood the stubbornness with the exposed cables. Didn't make sense to keep producing top-end groups that had them. Shimano didn't get it.

Then again, some people don't get how Campy can continue to produce groups with thumb buttons.

Or how SRAM can produce a top-end group that sounds like it's cross-chaining in EVERY GEAR.

Or what took Eric Sampson so long to develop Stratics.

93legendti
10-05-2008, 02:38 PM
the beauty of shimano is in how it works. i want my bike to be beautiful. i want my grouppo to work flawlessly.

I'm with Jim.

soulspinner
10-05-2008, 02:42 PM
I think the lines of the crank (and rd and brakes) are great but the mix of dark and light anodization does nothing for me. I saw some interbike pics that made the components look black; wasn't sure if it was the lighting or a one-off anodization job but it looks much better all one color. I'd prefer the color to be shiny silver but that's just me...

jimi


+1-to a word---WORD!

cadence90
10-05-2008, 03:13 PM
Shimano = 1977 Dodge Aspen Stationwagon with a Slant Six engine
;)
That or a 1975 AMC Pacer in dark silver with black racing flames (sn69 absolutely loves flames ;)) down each side.

In which case Campa is the 1954 375MM "Ingrid Bergman" Ferrari, with either Ingrid or Grace at the wheel. :)

http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/coupe/8475198+w455/112_0406_Road_Test+Ferrari_612_Scaglietti_04l_Ferr ari_375_MM+Drivers_Side_View.jpg

terry
10-05-2008, 03:23 PM
a Shimano groupo that could consider, however their cranks are the ugliest in all of cycledom and the 7800 was the worst.

sn69
10-05-2008, 05:18 PM
that monstrocity of a CXII in Ben's garage...sorry Ben, but that's a double coyote ugly bike)?

Nah, you missed my point:

Modolo Morphos = AMC Pacer

Shimano = anything utilitarian but fast (sticking to your AMC theme, how 'bout a Javelin).

Campa = your suggestions, or perhaps even a 71 Dino or a 65 Maserati Sebring.

cadence90
10-05-2008, 05:53 PM
that monstrocity of a CXII in Ben's garage...sorry Ben, but that's a double coyote ugly bike)?

Nah, you missed my point:

Modolo Morphos = AMC Pacer

Shimano = anything utilitarian but fast (sticking to your AMC theme, how 'bout a Javelin).

Campa = your suggestions, or perhaps even a 71 Dino or a 65 Maserati Sebring.
And Mavic Mektronic is a Trabant, while anything ISIS is a Ford Edsel.

BdaGhisallo
10-05-2008, 06:20 PM
I have heard that they are NOT compatible with the older fr. der. but they are with everything else... Does anyone know for sure?

Steve,

You are correct. The 7900 sti levers need the 7900 front derr. That is mainly because the 7900 setup has been designed to eliminate the need to trim the FD. They did this by making the 7900 FD cage wider than the 7800. Since they didn't need the trim in the 7900 series, they eliminated the intermediate ratchet steps in the 7900 sti. You could use the 7900 sti levers with a 7800 FD but you won't be able to trim it and you will get chain rub when cross chaining and you won't be able to fix it.

The 7900 sti levers, due the change in the location of the shifting mechanism (in the hood body rather than attached to the top of the lever blade as on the 7800 levers) have a different pivot, such that they now pull a lot more brake cable than the 7800 sti levers. So you can use 7800 calipers with 7900 sti levers, but you will have to set the brake pads a good ways away from the rim to account for the extra cable pull. You may sacrifice some modulation with this setup, but it remains to be seen how it is.

One thing you can't do is use the 7800 sti levers with the 7900 calipers. The 7900 calipers have been designed to work with a lot of cable pull. The 7800 sti levers will simply not pull enough cable to get the 7900 calipers to work safely.


As far as everything else, pretty much anything goes. All of the other 7900 components are backwards compatible but the 7800 components are not so forward compatible. The 7900 chain will work with all 10 sp setups. The 7900 chainrings are designed to work with the 7900 chain.

So as long as you steer clear of the fd issue and don't use the wrong calipers with the wrong sti lever, you are good to go.

At a minimum, you can go 7900 sti and FD and be happy.

Geoff

Ti Designs
10-05-2008, 06:56 PM
Y'all spend way too much time looking at your bikes. The light in my basement over where my bike hangs burned out months ago - I don't see my bike when I'm getting ready to ride. I leave the house 30 minutes before the sun comes up - I don't see my bike as I'm leaving the house. I don't look down at the bike as I ride. The bike has always been there, there's no reason I should think it woun't be there when I look down - I don't see my bike when I ride. When I get home I check my mailbox on the way up my stairs - I don't see my bike on the way back in. Once I'm back inside I hang my bike up in the dark...

On the north shore ride the other week we started talking about bikes, so I looked at my bike. It's dirty.

nm87710
10-05-2008, 07:37 PM
Y'all spend way too much time looking at your bikes. The light in my basement over where my bike hangs burned out months ago - I don't see my bike when I'm getting ready to ride. I leave the house 30 minutes before the sun comes up - I don't see my bike as I'm leaving the house. I don't look down at the bike as I ride. The bike has always been there, there's no reason I should think it woun't be there when I look down - I don't see my bike when I ride. When I get home I check my mailbox on the way up my stairs - I don't see my bike on the way back in. Once I'm back inside I hang my bike up in the dark...

On the north shore ride the other week we started talking about bikes, so I looked at my bike. It's dirty.

That's soooooooooo old skool. Real riders know it's all about how well you look! :rolleyes:

bigbill
10-05-2008, 07:51 PM
I was riding with a guy today who wants to get a stainless Paramount and equip it with 7900. I just didn't know how to respond. I tried to go to my happy place. Eddy Merckx on a tricycle, Eddy Merckx on a tricycle.

avalonracing
10-05-2008, 07:58 PM
I think it will look perfect on my Merlin Works CR Ti. Sure maybe it isn't for a "classic bike" but on a modern machine it will be great.

I'll post a pic if I get a group anytime soon.

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 08:01 PM
Steve,

You are correct. The 7900 sti levers need the 7900 front derr. That is mainly because the 7900 setup has been designed to eliminate the need to trim the FD. They did this by making the 7900 FD cage wider than the 7800. Since they didn't need the trim in the 7900 series, they eliminated the intermediate ratchet steps in the 7900 sti. You could use the 7900 sti levers with a 7800 FD but you won't be able to trim it and you will get chain rub when cross chaining and you won't be able to fix it.

The 7900 sti levers, due the change in the location of the shifting mechanism (in the hood body rather than attached to the top of the lever blade as on the 7800 levers) have a different pivot, such that they now pull a lot more brake cable than the 7800 sti levers. So you can use 7800 calipers with 7900 sti levers, but you will have to set the brake pads a good ways away from the rim to account for the extra cable pull. You may sacrifice some modulation with this setup, but it remains to be seen how it is.

One thing you can't do is use the 7800 sti levers with the 7900 calipers. The 7900 calipers have been designed to work with a lot of cable pull. The 7800 sti levers will simply not pull enough cable to get the 7900 calipers to work safely.


As far as everything else, pretty much anything goes. All of the other 7900 components are backwards compatible but the 7800 components are not so forward compatible. The 7900 chain will work with all 10 sp setups. The 7900 chainrings are designed to work with the 7900 chain.

So as long as you steer clear of the fd issue and don't use the wrong calipers with the wrong sti lever, you are good to go.

At a minimum, you can go 7900 sti and FD and be happy.

Geoff

Thank you so much for the great explanation!

I kind of thought the brakes were "iffy"...Once the dust settles and the prices come WAY down...I'll get a set and a fr der... and give it a whirl...

Thanks again,

Steve

shinomaster
10-05-2008, 08:10 PM
I like the new crank way better.

rwsaunders
10-05-2008, 08:32 PM
I'm still stuck in 7700-land so I can't help you Steve. I cleaned and lubed my Legend tonight and just tucked it away until next weekend. If I bought a new grouppo, I would just scuff the crank arms anyway.

SoCalSteve
10-05-2008, 08:48 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/2009-Shimano-Dura-Ace-7900-8-pc-Groupset-NEW-Complete_W0QQitemZ230297173052QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item230297173052&_trkparms=72%3A1208%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

$2400.00 for a 7900 group!

The 7800 group that I am selling for $800.00 (sans cassette) is a true bargain in comparison...

Just sayin'

Steve

Here it is: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=51086

Grant McLean
10-05-2008, 08:56 PM
On the right frame, the 7900 looks awesome.

The only change i'd make is to slide the "Dura Ace" logo on the crank
further down the arm, like all the other shimano cranksets.

-g

FATBOY
10-05-2008, 08:59 PM
I think it looks great. It works great too....

jhcakilmer
10-05-2008, 09:17 PM
So what do you guys really dislike.....the anodizing is definitely not the traditional silver, but besides that it doesn't look that much different.......machining, looks almost identical on the arms.....they've left less metal, which IMO looks nice......7800 looks bloated.

I really like the hidden chainring bolts.....why hasn't someone done this sooner, or have they??

corky
10-05-2008, 09:28 PM
7800 crank = elephant trunk

7900 crank = john holmes ( a pornstar for those unenlightened) doing a star jump

:) :)

yim
10-05-2008, 09:41 PM
What ever you feel, the group will be successful in sell.

Do every members remember the comments on the 7800 cranks when it comes out new?

Most of you said that it is very ugly but now everyone miss it.

The market is leading you, your feelings will change.

IMO, until now Campy C Record is the most beautiful bicycle group.

Elefantino
10-05-2008, 09:47 PM
Reality check:

For the above-average recreational cyclist who can hang and pull in a 22 mph paceline for a good long while, this question:

What, if anything, will I feel that is different?

I doubt I would feel the difference, just like I doubt I would feel the difference between Record and Chorus.

Are we slaves to bling?

(Rhetorical question. Thanks for coming. Tip the waitress.)

avalonracing
10-05-2008, 09:49 PM
On the right frame, the 7900 looks awesome.

The only change i'd make is to slide the "Dura Ace" logo on the crank
further down the arm, like all the other shimano cranksets.

-g

That is probably so it won't rub off. It seems a lot of cyclists get rub marks on their cranks from there big, fat feet.

toaster
10-05-2008, 09:57 PM
Shimano has looked ugly for some time now. That 7800 crankset looks like a circular saw blade.

At least the newer one has some style but I don't think it will look good on some bikes due to the two tone thing.

Campy, Sram Red, FSA and others make a nice looking crankset. Shimano has improved the brifters appeal though.

TAW
10-05-2008, 10:10 PM
Ugly.

I can think of several Campa groups which I think are more elegant.
I have never equated elegance with Shimano, though, just function.
I think Campa oftens strives to meld both.

This gets my vote as well. I've ridden Shimano because I like it better, but not because it looks better.

Ti Designs
10-07-2008, 07:25 AM
For the above-average recreational cyclist who can hang and pull in a 22 mph paceline for a good long while, this question:

What, if anything, will I feel that is different?

Not much. I still can't tell the difference between my late 60's Nuovo Record cranks and my FSA carbons. I know that the old stuff was smoother before they started adding ramps and pins and the chains started getting thinner, but that's the price of shifting performance. I ride a fixed gear all winter, I shift a few dozen times during the season - it's all wasted on me. The one area you will notice it is in the points of contact - the hoods. Some bars love some levers, others just don't work. Campy levers on Curvisima bars just feel right. Campy levers on Cinelli 65's don't fit well at all. It's more than just looks, the difference in reach between the tops and where your hands wind up on the hoods is your change in hip angle.

I doubt I would feel the difference, just like I doubt I would feel the difference between Record and Chorus.


Are we slaves to bling?

Hell no. I am by far the most ugly part on my bike, adding bling would be like lipstick on a pig.

William
10-07-2008, 08:24 AM
Shimano = 1977 Dodge Aspen Stationwagon with a Slant Six engine


Yeah, and like those slant six motors, they last for freakin ever.




William

EDS
10-07-2008, 09:18 AM
I think the 7900 crank and shifters are a huge step up from 7800 in terms of aesthetics. The 7800 crank and shifters just seemed too bloated and oversized in comparison to a vast majority of bikes.

hansolo758
10-07-2008, 09:24 AM
When I saw this thread title, I thought it was another one bashing the Serotta forum...my bad, as my son would say.

Yes, I think it has an industrial sort of chic to it -- which isn't my aesthetic, and obviously isn't yours. I prefer polished to carbon.

johnnymossville
10-07-2008, 09:30 AM
They look like an improvement. the last group's crankset always looked like a squid sucking the life out of the bottom bracket to me. I like the mix of smooth curves and sharp flowing lines on the new stuff and the typography is clean and modern.

I'll give it an 8.5 out of 10.

bnewt07
10-07-2008, 10:04 AM
New Ultegra SL groupset looks lovely in a classic-with-a-twist way. My wife's new Ti frame will be getting it when the bike is finished. I have the groupset already and pics are not great at showing the colour and surface, it is very, very nice in the metal.

I like the way Shimano is moving towards a distinctive (vaguely industrial) aesthetic that is recognisable and different, even if I do not always like it. I hated the old DA design!

My personal fave is still the generation before last of XTR for MTB. Great shapes and that oh-so-cool blue grey finish.

Bruce

benb
10-07-2008, 10:18 AM
I like some of the new stuff a lot.

I like this new anodizing on the DA and I like the color of the Ultegra SL a lot, I think both will look better then pure silver on Ti frames. You get some contrast out of it. (Painted black components work for me too)

I also like the new crank better then the previous one.

However I could really care less, the best thing about DA 7900 and Ultegra SL is it makes DA 7800 and Ultegra 6600 dirt cheap. (I just switched my bike largely to Ultegra 6600, and it was very reasonable)

I'm also NOT part of the camp that believes exposed cables are all bad. As someone who just switched from SRAM back to Shimano the aesthetics of the exposed shifter cables don't bother me at all (guess I may be in that "don't look at my bike much" category). And I can't help but wonder if part of the reason Shimano has shifted so smooth over the years is those exposed cables having lower friction due to the increased radius of the bend in the housing. I also like having one less cable under my bar tape, I think the bar feels a little better (Ritchey WCS) but that again depends on a given bar. Lastly seeing as I tend to want to replace shifter cable more often then brake cable it means I don't have to untape the bar to replace the shifter cables & housing.

deechee
10-07-2008, 10:45 AM
My personal fave is still the generation before last of XTR for MTB. Great shapes and that oh-so-cool blue grey finish.


ditto. Personally, I like it. But I also love XTR. (I started biking with mountain bikes.) I like this group more than when 7800 came out. And yet, when I finally decided to build up 10 speed, I had to get the DA crank. The less beefy Ultegra and CF cranks just don't appeal to me.

All the comments so far seem to be focused on the crank though. Why the big fuss? You have so many options for cranks - FSA, Zipp, Alize etc.

android
10-07-2008, 11:46 AM
Y'all spend way too much time looking at your bikes. The light in my basement over where my bike hangs burned out months ago - I don't see my bike when I'm getting ready to ride. I leave the house 30 minutes before the sun comes up - I don't see my bike as I'm leaving the house. I don't look down at the bike as I ride. The bike has always been there, there's no reason I should think it woun't be there when I look down - I don't see my bike when I ride. When I get home I check my mailbox on the way up my stairs - I don't see my bike on the way back in. Once I'm back inside I hang my bike up in the dark...

On the north shore ride the other week we started talking about bikes, so I looked at my bike. It's dirty.

10:1 odds that something is broken or about to break on your bike. A good inspection is part of regular preventative maintenance.

SoCalSteve
10-07-2008, 11:54 AM
10:1 odds that something is broken or about to break on your bike. A good inspection is part of regular preventative maintenance.

Post of the day!

tomwd3
10-07-2008, 12:55 PM
I didn't like the 7900 at first, but it's growing on me. I agree that it probably won't look good on any retro-style, chrome-lugged, 1" steel tube bikes. But, that doesn't matter to me cause I don't own any of those anyway.
I do like the 7800. The cables just don't bother me. For me, the most important criteria has been function.
I've never ridden a bike that shifts better than my DA7800.
The DA brakes have ridiculous amount of stopping power. I don't mind the xtra 70-100 grams.
The stiffness of the cranks when combined with the shifting of the rings is awesome.
The upshifts on the front derailleur are instant, and require very little effort.
I've got the Rival, Ultegra 9 & 10, and ridden at least 3 differnt race bikes with Record 10 speed. I always found the Record to be very good, but a little too clunky for my tastes. Especially dropping down the cassette. The thumb lever action was never as smooth as I'd have liked. I'm nitpicking here.

From the standpoint of pure asthetics, I give the nod to Record & Chorus.
If I had the coin for and extra bike built purely for style, I'd probably go that way. As it is, I've got a 585 Ultra, and I think the 7800 looks good on it.

Hey, It's just 1 man's opinion, and the good news for me is that I should be able to get a good deal on a 7800 group to put on the shelf for later.
Cheers.
Tom

SoCalSteve
10-07-2008, 01:16 PM
I didn't like the 7900 at first, but it's growing on me. I agree that it probably won't look good on any retro-style, chrome-lugged, 1" steel tube bikes. But, that doesn't matter to me cause I don't own any of those anyway.
I do like the 7800. The cables just don't bother me. For me, the most important criteria has been function.
I've never ridden a bike that shifts better than my DA7800.
The DA brakes have ridiculous amount of stopping power. I don't mind the xtra 70-100 grams.
The stiffness of the cranks when combined with the shifting of the rings is awesome.
The upshifts on the front derailleur are instant, and require very little effort.
I've got the Rival, Ultegra 9 & 10, and ridden at least 3 differnt race bikes with Record 10 speed. I always found the Record to be very good, but a little too clunky for my tastes. Especially dropping down the cassette. The thumb lever action was never as smooth as I'd have liked. I'm nitpicking here.

From the standpoint of pure asthetics, I give the nod to Record & Chorus.
If I had the coin for and extra bike built purely for style, I'd probably go that way. As it is, I've got a 585 Ultra, and I think the 7800 looks good on it.

Hey, It's just 1 man's opinion, and the good news for me is that I should be able to get a good deal on a 7800 group to put on the shelf for later.
Cheers.
Tom

What do you consider a good deal?

Just askin'

Steve

Johny
10-07-2008, 01:27 PM
As a Campy guy, I love 7800 (although never use the crankset, I think it has the spirit of Samurai sword "katana" and looks great in person). Shifting is crispy...great brakes...hoods are great (Campy definitely stole the idea)...all (almost) metal...what's not to like.

Johny
10-07-2008, 01:35 PM
I think 7900 is a further extension of the spirit of Katana in design: clay painting over the back edge of the sword. I bet they look great in person.

Ti Designs
10-07-2008, 01:36 PM
10:1 odds that something is broken or about to break on your bike. A good inspection is part of regular preventative maintenance.


Almost everything on my bike is broken, saves time on all that inspecting and preventitive maintainance while lowering the cost.

tomwd3
10-07-2008, 01:52 PM
What do you consider a good deal?

Just askin'

Steve

Steve,
I'd seen your deal in the classifieds.
I'm waiting for my "Christmas Club" money.
I know the kids will understand!
Tom

tomwd3
10-07-2008, 01:57 PM
As a Campy guy, I love 7800 (although never use the crankset, I think it has the spirit of Samurai sword "katana" and looks great in person). Shifting is crispy...great brakes...hoods are great (Campy definitely stole the idea)...all (almost) metal...what's not to like.

An interesting observation.
I think Shimano took the position that they have some of the greatest forging capabilities in the world, and styed with their strength.
Even though many customers were clamoring for carbon components.
(I'm not one of them)
My frame & fork are all carbon, but stem bars & post are WCS alloy.
Value BABY!

OperaLover
10-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Dura Ace 7400!

keevon
10-07-2008, 04:45 PM
Dura Ace 7400!

Sante!

T.J.
10-07-2008, 04:58 PM
Like others have said already I think the group would look ok depending on the bike. My training bike , a Ti Roark has a 7800 group which in my opinion looks great on it. My team bike, a System Six has a Red Group which looks at home hung on this frame. Not sure what frame would be complimented by a 7900 group but there is some out there.

Tobias
10-07-2008, 05:52 PM
I don't see that much difference except for the cranks. And I don't like them -- didn't like the previous generation either.

cadence90
10-07-2008, 06:09 PM
I think 7900 is a further extension of the spirit of Katana in design: clay painting over the back edge of the sword. I bet they look great in person.
A bit OT (and maybe this has been posted here before; I don't remember) but this is an incredibly interesting video on the making of a Samurai sword (Katana).
(Especially interesting are Part 1; Part 2; and Part 3...Parts 4 & 5 are more about using the sword.)

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko9vR2_ptlA)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8q2dCXmjU)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITrV8k_7izs)
Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLDVL5FoL2Y)
Part 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j_QnEuH96w)

oldguy00
10-07-2008, 07:17 PM
What do you consider a good deal?

Just askin'

Steve

Brand new from probikekit with free shipping:

rd - 75
fd - 54
cassette - 96
bb - 33
STI - 216
brakes - 162
cranks - 228

total - 864
less 5% if you use the coupon code USARBR at checkout

= 820 US shipped. Pretty good deal!

SoCalSteve
10-07-2008, 07:28 PM
Brand new from probikekit with free shipping:

rd - 75
fd - 54
cassette - 96
bb - 33
STI - 216
brakes - 162
cranks - 228

total - 864
less 5% if you use the coupon code USARBR at checkout

= 820 US shipped. Pretty good deal!

Too bad they dont have the front der in stock, Eng BB in stock, 12-25 cassettes in stock nor 12-27 cassettes in stock...

Last time I ordered from PBK, Shimano components came in plastic baggies and were missing parts...

Just sayin'

Steve

PS: Wonder how long that coupon is good for???

oldguy00
10-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Too bad they dont have the front der in stock, Eng BB in stock, 12-25 cassettes in stock nor 12-27 cassettes in stock...

Last time I ordered from PBK, Shimano components came in plastic baggies and were missing parts...

Just sayin'

Steve

PS: Wonder how long that coupon is good for???

True, they are often short on stock. However, out of the list above, everything is in stock except for what you mentioned, and for those, they have cassettes like 12-23, 12-21, 11-21. I always go with 12-23....but thats just me.
They only have italian DA BB's, but they have lots of Ultegra in english I believe.
I have no idea why anyone would buy used DA stuff when its so cheap from PBK. But again, thats just me!
The coupon has been around for a while and still works as of a day or two ago.

They have been out of stock on a lot of items, like tires and chains lately, but when they do get stuff in stock, the deals are pretty darn good.

SoCalSteve
10-07-2008, 08:13 PM
True, they are often short on stock. However, out of the list above, everything is in stock except for what you mentioned, and for those, they have cassettes like 12-23, 12-21, 11-21. I always go with 12-23....but thats just me.
They only have italian DA BB's, but they have lots of Ultegra in english I believe.
I have no idea why anyone would buy used DA stuff when its so cheap from PBK. But again, thats just me!The coupon has been around for a while and still works as of a day or two ago.

They have been out of stock on a lot of items, like tires and chains lately, but when they do get stuff in stock, the deals are pretty darn good.

The group I am selling is brand new, in the box...

Anyway, seeing the prices of the 7900 gear and knowing that I have 9 7800 groups, some doubles, some triples...I may just hold onto my group and use it for replacements, whatever, that I may need in the future.

I truly cannot see buying a 7900 group (especially until the prices come waaaay down) and, I dont think I would ever buy the crankset. And, even if I did buy anything 7900, it probably wouldnt go beyond the shifters, fr der and brakes...

But, thats just me.

T.J.
10-07-2008, 08:26 PM
Steve~ 9 7800 groups??? You know admitting you have a problem is the first step :p

SoCalSteve
10-07-2008, 08:33 PM
Steve~ 9 7800 groups??? You know admitting you have a problem is the first step :p

Problem? What do you mean?

Serotta Ottrott--7803 Group
Serotta Hors Cat--7803 Group
Kirk Terraplane--7803 Group
Moots Compact Sl--7803 Group
Time VXR--7800 Group
Colnago Carbonissimo-7800 Group
Look 595--7800 Group
Trek y-Foil --7800 Group

Oh yeah, my wife's Titus Exogrid--7803 Group

I dont quite understand what you mean?

Please explain,

Steve

PS: My Pegoretti Marcello is set up as a fixie (so no 7800 Group)

oldguy00
10-07-2008, 08:41 PM
I don't think he realized they were all on bikes. :)

7800 works great, and looks great IMHO (other than the cables)..
I wouldn't bother upgrading, unless you really just want to try something new.
I've been pondering trying SRAM Red, yet I know that nothing works as well as 7800...
Just sayin'

tomwd3
10-07-2008, 09:13 PM
Problem? What do you mean?

Serotta Ottrott--7803 Group
Serotta Hors Cat--7803 Group
Kirk Terraplane--7803 Group
Moots Compact Sl--7803 Group
Time VXR--7800 Group
Colnago Carbonissimo-7800 Group
Look 595--7800 Group
Trek y-Foil --7800 Group

Oh yeah, my wife's Titus Exogrid--7803 Group

I dont quite understand what you mean?

Please explain,

Steve

PS: My Pegoretti Marcello is set up as a fixie (so no 7hat800 Group)

What?
No cross bike?
How do you cope? :)

Nice stable brother.

T.J.
10-07-2008, 09:54 PM
I don't think he realized they were all on bikes. :)

True, I didn't know they were all on bikes


I've been pondering trying SRAM Red, yet I know that nothing works as well as 7800...



I have always been a fan of Dura Ace but we had a team deal with Sram this year and have been impressed with the Red,but i like it with a Shimano cassette.

T.J.
10-07-2008, 09:55 PM
Oh yeah, very nice collection of bikes Steve :beer: