First E-bay experience a bad one…

[Louis]

Well, I just got scr*wed.

I needed a fork with a longer steerer tube for my new/used Legend. I found an e-bay listing for a “new unused” 1” Ouzo Pro and sent the seller a question about the steerer tube length. The reply was that it was a 300mm uncut steerer, which is what I wanted, not 285mm. I get the fork today, and it is a 285mm uncut steerer. Also, the info stickers on the steerer had been removed, so you would not have the evidence right there in front of you. Who knows what the rake on this one is. It was advertised as 43mm, but that’s difficult to measure.

We’ll see how this gets resolved, but I do know that 285mm will not work for me. Oh well, so much for trusting a fellow cyclist…

How often does this type of thing happen on e-bay?

Louis

[coylifut]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I've had a couple issues like you describe and both times the seller was willing to take back the item. Steerer size is critical and if he confirmed, but was negligent in measurement, it's his bad. At this point I wouldn't loose hope unless he's already brushed you off.

[Sandy]

I agree with coylifut. Very possibly it was an error. Very possibly it was on purpose. In either case, the seller certainly may rectify the situation once you clearly state the basis of your lack of satisfaction with the transaction. Give it a chance.


Sandy

[Smiley]

Louis , I am sorry to hear of your problem , Reynolds has 2 steerer tube lengths 285 and 350 . Do you have a serial number on the crown / steerer area , if so call Reynolds to confirm the rake. Best of luck , I too think e-bay can be problematic with un-reliable sellers .

[OldDog]

I believe EBay has some sort of insurance (up to 250.00?) for buyers who feel they were wronged and the seller would not rectify. If you cannot resolve this between you and the seller I would not hesitate to contact EBay. Good luck.

[TimD]

I've had good experience buying on eBay, in the sense that I have been satisfied when all was said and done. Is every transaction simple? No, but neither is every retail transaction. I see this as part of the nonmonetary cost of buying on price.

As a seller, every single person who has bought from me has had a good experience, or at least said they have via their feedback.

It is critical to do your homework - on the seller, and on the item - before you buy. This includes estimating the 'fair market value' of the item and not overpaying. The price of an item is exactly what it will fetch, and obviously a seller isn't going to do a thing to prevent a bidder from overpaying. Fundamentally, auctions bid up, while prices in classified ads (such as those on roadbikereview.com) are usually bid down.

Having been through the fork replacement exercise lately, getting exact information on the range of forks on the market (or, more accurately in your case, the forks which _were_ on the market at some arbitrary time in the past) is tricky. However, the folks at www.reynoldscomposites.com are very responsive to questions, and probably could have pointed out that the Ouzo Pro is available in two steerer lengths, neither of them being 300 mm. :) :(

I hope your next experience is a better one.

As for the stickers, the top wrench at my LBS suggested I remove the stickers before I installed the fork, since some headsets (such as a King) are machined to an ID very close to 1.00" / 1.25" and tend to scrape off the stickers during fork insertion. I chose to not follow this advice, but it could be that the fork you bought lacks stickers for good reason.

[Bradford]

I once sold a Dura Ace crank I pulled off a I bike I had just bought on Ebay. When the buyer received it, he sent me an email saying that it was a Dura Ace Crank, but had Ultegra rings. I didn't know that when I posted it, so I gave him a full refund immediatly.

Honest mistakes happen, so send him an email letting him now the problem and hope that fixes it. If not, then you can resort to other measures, but give him a chance first.

[Jeff N.]

I've rarely ever had any problems with E-Bay. If he blows you off, you can just re-sell it. Maybe even get more! Jeff N.

[Louis]

However, the folks at www.reynoldscomposites.com are very responsive to questions, and probably could have pointed out that the Ouzo Pro is available in two steerer lengths, neither of them being 300 mm. :) :(

Tim,

As best I can tell, the Ouzo Pro comes in two standard lengths, 285mm (the old standard) and 300mm (the new standard). Those numbers are from various mail-order places which list the lengths of the forks they offer.

We'll see how this works out. I sent the seller an e-mail note explaining my problems (steerer length; no brake bolt; generic, not Reynolds compression plug) and I requested an exchange. Have not yet heard back from him.

Louis

[Needs Help]

PayPal Buyer Protection provides up to $500.00 USD of coverage at no additional cost when you use PayPal to pay for a qualified listing on:

* ebay.com
* ebay.ca
* ebay.co.uk
* ebay.de

PayPal Buyer Protection covers non-delivery of tangible items and tangible items that are received significantly not as described.

In addition, no legitimate seller wants negative feedback, which you have the opportunity to add to their profile, or they won't be able to sell things in the future.

[bcm119]

I received a bent Serotta frame through Ebay once. The seller was reluctant to agree to take it back, but after a few phone conversations he agreed to it. The feedback issue gives the buyer some leverage in these situations. I think I agreed to not give him any feedback in exchange for him refunding my Paypal account.

[Louis]

Update: Things are not working out as easily as I had hoped…

I asked the seller for two things:

1) He refund to me the price of the fork and the shipping (just one way).

2) Once I get the $ I’d ship the fork back.

He insists on me sending it back before he pays anything, and refuses to pay shipping. I’ve told him that it was his mistake, and that he needs to take responsibility for his action, since the contract was to send me a 300mm fork. I refuse to take the risk both was, first by paying him before I get the fork, then by sending the fork before I get the money refunded back. Doesn’t make any sense that I should take the chance both times.

Question for you: Has anyone out there ever used the e-bay mediation services?

[bpm]

If you paid via Paypal you can file a complaint with them. I haven't had to do this but I understand they are pretty aggressive in pursuing complaints.

I once filed a complaint with eBay when an item (a wheelset) I paid for (via personal check) wasn't shipped. Ebay was useless and did nothing more than notify the seller of the complaint. It wasn't until I threatened the seller with legal action that I got the wheels (two months after they cashed my check).

[bpm]

A follow up to my previous message.

Try your best to resolve this without having to go the "Negative Feedback" route. Unfortunately, if you leave negative feedback for them, they will likely leave negative feedback for you. If they sell a lot on eBay one negative feedback probably won't affect them much.

This happened to me. The company I was dealing with had over 6,000 positive feedbacks and just one or two negative. I had thirty positive. We each left negative feedbacks for each other. It looks much worse on my rating than theirs.

[Russ]

Question for you: Has anyone out there ever used the e-bay mediation services?

I sent a money order for some Campy parts, which I never received. I used the PayPal "buyer protection" and it went so far as to say that I was right, but I never received a penny for the transaction. Looks like the other party took the money and ran... as PayPal could never get any money from the thieves.

My suggestion to you... try to sell the darn thing (on eBay, perhaps!) and limit your losses. If the person is a pain in the rear as to not want to refund you money, I doubt it if you will hear from him once you send the fork back.

BPM talked about "legal action". I don't know who is going to help you with a $500 transaction. I surely did not get any help with my $800 one. My attorney friend I talked to said it was a waste of time... go figure!

Clarification: I meant to say, especially if the other party is not a business. You certainly can take a business to small claims court. But the question remains: are they out-of-state? Is it worth your time?

[bpm]

Russ,

You're right. I don't know what sort of legal action I would have taken but the threat was apparently enough to get them to ship the wheels. If they had called my bluff there's probably nothing I could have done about it.

bpm

[BumbleBeeDave]

Go read:

www.paypalsucks.com

. . . and you will see what I mean. All their efforts are aimed at getting you to become a "verified" customer, which means giving them access to your bank account. You also sign away virtually all your consumer rights when you become "verified."

I will use PayPal up to my "spending" limit as they have defined it, but no way in H*ll will I give them access to my bank account or set up a selling account with them.

Beware!

BBDave

[OldDog]

If the seller here merly sells a few odds and end occansionally, I too would be leary of sending back the fork, maybe send it back COD for an agreed upon amount. However, if he is a volume seller, a shop maybe, I would expect to need to return the fork prior to a refund.

He's got you by the tail, be nice to him before you try to bite him.

[Louis]

Boy, that degenerated pretty quickly:

Initially the seller refused to a) pay for the original shipping costs (I said I’d pay to ship the fork back to him) and b) refused to refund the original $ before I sent the fork back.

Now he has completely refused to refund any money under any circumstances, even if I send the fork back first. I guess I have no choice but to go to the various complaint options available. Based on his behaviour I'm glad I did not send the fork without seeing money from him.

This certainly has soured me on the concept of buying from strangers. At least on this forum you can get a feel for the other person’s integrity…

Louis

[gasman]

Oh man what a drag-I hope you can turn around and sell it yourself.

[Kurt]

Boy, that degenerated pretty quickly:

Initially the seller refused to a) pay for the original shipping costs (I said I’d pay to ship the fork back to him) and b) refused to refund the original $ before I sent the fork back.

Now he has completely refused to refund any money under any circumstances, even if I send the fork back first. I guess I have no choice but to go to the various complaint options available. Based on his behaviour I'm glad I did not send the fork without seeing money from him.

This certainly has soured me on the concept of buying from strangers. At least on this forum you can get a feel for the other person’s integrity…

Louis

and nail him good - make sure you are the last person he does that to. if you are dealing with something that has specs you have to be really careful. if you have email back and forth with him ebay will be most responsive. After you post some nice feedback maybe post the link so we can all have the heads up to stay away from this jerk!
**
not this is it? the post has been moded to add 285.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=56196&item=7110107824&rd=1

[Louis]

Kurt,

No it was not that one, but I saw it. In fact, that info was added the day after I sent the seller a question about the length. He replied 285mm and added the length to the listing. I did not bid because I wanted a 300mm, but now I have a 285mm steerer fork...

Since this is not yet resolved I won't bad-mouth anyone just yet, but once the story is over I'll let you folks know what happened.

Aside: You know, it all comes 'round in the end. It's a karma deal, and hopefully at some point, at the end, everybody gets what's theirs. I hate to quote W, he's not my favorite philosopher, but like he said this morning in the press conference, you either build up or deplete your capital. Hopefully I deal with people in a way that builds mine up. I think this is depleting the seller's. 'nuf said.

Louis

[dirtdigger88]

sorry to hear about your woes, Louis. Personally, I don't like ebay or pay pal. I know lots of people who have great luck but I know just as many who don't. Keep us posted.

Jason

[weisan]

Hi Louis,

Check you PM.

thanks,
weisan

[Louis]

Update: I did not return the fork to the seller since he would not pay shipping or pay up front. We now enter The Feedback Phase: (Item number was 7110468157)
------------------------------------------------
My Feedback: Provided incorrect info on product & refused to pay return post; did ship quickly
------------------------------------------------
Reply by sundevil111: As advertised, but I offered a refund anyway. Refuses to return item. Ridiculous
------------------------------------------------
Follow-up by lugs52: Not as advertised: said it was a 300mm steerer, was really 285mm; that's a fact
------------------------------------------------
In addition, in the “feedback on buyer section,” I’m accused of maybe being a con man. Thanks to this guy this is now on my E-bay record for all the world to see:

“Ridiculous. Won't return item but wants refund anyway. Perhaps a con??”

All of this just because he was too lazy to measure the d*rn fork, assumed that it was 300mm, and refused to take responsibility for his mistake.

I’m now done with E-bay. They have not responded to my e-mails trying to work this out. I’ve been burned once, not again. No sense messing with people or companies like this anymore.

Happy ending: I found a buyer on this forum and shipped the fork to him on Friday. I hope he will be happy with it.

Louis

[AZsundevil]

Hello all!

I detest arguing on the internet, so rather than ruin this entire thread I'll post this once for posterity and then let it be.

As it happens, I was the seller of the fork that Louis bought on Ebay, and I'd like to shed some light on the subject. Before purchasing my fork, Louis sent me the following question (copied and pasted directly from his email):

Hi, What's the steerer tube length? Some are 185mm some are 300mm Thanks

Note that it says 185, not 285.

Since Louis said 185 and 300 were the two available options, and knowing it clearly wasn't 185, I told him it was a 300mm fork. This weekend I found the packaging it came in originally, and it says 300mm, but I admit that I haven't measured it myself. I'll allow that there may have been an error somewhere, and that it may be a 285mm fork.

That aside, I immediately offered to accept a return of the fork for a full refund of the purchase price (even though my auction states clearly that no refunds will be given under any circumstances). When Louis asked me to refund the shipping charges as well, I explained that since I had already spent over $23 in packaging, ebay fees, and paypal fees, I was not willing to refund the shipping charges as well.

The biggest deal breaker, however, is that he insists on receiving a refund without first returning the fork. Again, I very politely explained that no mail order operation works that way. If I buy something at sharperimage.com (though I can't imagine doing so ;) ), they won't issue me a refund based on my arbitrary pledge to return the purchased item at a later date! This problem is compounded by the fact that Louis had an ebay feedback rating of zero.

Moreover, Louis would be protected by ebay and paypal if he were to return the fork and not receive a refund. He would have tracking info and emails from me which would be sufficient for Paypal to award a claim to him. The reverse, of course, is not true. If I were to issue a refund and he should for whatever reason fail to return the fork, I would be completely exposed. Neither Ebay nor Paypal would issue any credit whatsoever.

Here's the bottom line: I offered a refund, if he would just send back the fork. I politely made that offer in no less than 5 emails to him throughout the day on Friday, but he refused to budge on the above issues. I'm a reputable seller who has been on ebay for several years, but due to the fact that Louis felt the need to threaten me in his later emails, I opted to withdraw my refund offer and wash my hands of him.

This is the situation as it stands now, hopefully this brings some clarity.

Regards,

Brian

[Louis]

Hi Brian,

Welcome to the Serotta forum.

Based on what you see here you can decide if you still think I'm a con man, or just someone trying to protect his interests.

Louis

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . either one of you guys are a “con man” . . . You just had a misunderstanding. See what you can both do about retracting the feedback and move on . . . And Brian, I hope you‘ll stick around--this is a neat forum. (And I could sure use a deal on a fork! ;) ;) ;) )

BBDave

[AZsundevil]

Thanks, Bumblebee! I've actually been a reader of this forum for a long time (I ride an '01 Legend). First time posting, though... Unfortunate that this had to go as far as it did.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Shi--, er, stuff happens! Come to the next owners weekend and everyone can kiss and :beer: :beer: :beer:

BBDave