Wheels North--Sachs Frameset Auction

[Peter B]

OK, there may be some interest in this here.

"Here is your chance--maybe your last chance--to own a custom frame from Richard Sachs, one of the world's premiere builders, *and* to contribute to a worthy cause at the same time.

Starting on August 15th, 2008, Richard stopped taking orders from new customers. If you don't already own a Sachs and weren't in the queue by then, you can't order a frame from Richard.

However, Richard held one slot in the waiting list open for Wheels North, a fundraising ride that benefits research into Histiocytosis, a rare and deadly disease. That slot is being auctioned off, which means that you have the chance to have your own Richard Sachs frameset.

Just 100 tickets will be sold for this auction, at $100 each. Proceeds from the auction go to the Histiocytosis Association of America.

More information on Wheels North is available at www.wheelsnorth.org. You can learn more about Histiocytosis at www.histio.org, and Richard's site is at www.richardsachs.com

Good luck!"

Wheels North was organized by Eric Norris, keeper of Campyonly.com and friend of Richard. Eric was one of the riders with me on the 2006 Big Fix, a cross-country fixed gear fundraiser for Histiocytosis.

This time it's a ride recreating the epic 1909 adventure of two young cyclists, Vic McDaniel and Ray Francisco: Santa Rosa, California, to Seattle, Washington, by bicycle.
July 4 to July 17, 2009.

Check Eric's donation page (https://www.kintera.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=276565&lis=1&kntae276565=E55B3BB8667E4E41B48F16685D53371D&supId=233814480#) for more information and thanks for your support!


Peter

[WickedWheels]

I know it's for charity, but I have to ask...

Is this auction for the frameset or for the slot in the waiting list?

[Ti Designs]

This post brings up many questions:

1) who is Richard Sachs? Please don't answer that, I know he's a frame builder, I've met the guy, I've seen pictures of him, his bikes, his dog...

2) why is this post stuck at the top? His waiting list is 6 years out, that's a long time to be on top - are there term limits?

3) the slot in the auction, when is it for? I have no idea what I would want for a bike in 6 years, but if it's gonna be done next March...

4) if this goes the way everything else has been going, Richard will be back out of retirement in 4 years.

5) When Richard is all done building frames, will the secret of how to braze lugs be lost forever?

[Lazy Bill]

WW - According to the linked website the prize is a slot on the waiting list.
No info on when that spot comes up, but I imagine, if arrangements have been made recently, that it would fall towards the end of the list. If it was for a spot in the coming year, I would bet more tickets could be sold, as it would attract some already in the que to take a chance at shaving 4 or 5 years off their wait.

[csm]

so you just win a slot? or is the slot and frame paid for?

[Ti Designs]

so you just win a slot? or is the slot and frame paid for?

You win a slot in the queue and the soul of the bike. The frame you have to pay for, and if you have to ask how much...

[MarleyMon]

It says "Win a Richard Sachs Frameset!"
I don't think its just a slot on the waiting list.

[Pete Serotta]

It is a frame set and it is for a good cause............ :)

[Peter B]

Sorry to be slow responding to all questions. Sticky was removed and last time I checked there were no posts. <<excuses off>>

Auction is for a Richard Sachs frameset. And as Serotta Pete said, the cause is good.

$100 buys you a 1-in-100 chance of winning a custom Richard Sachs frameset.


Please PM me directly if you have any questions.

Peter

[News Man]

I wonder how much more could be raised for charity if the spot was at the front of the line?

How do these things work anyway? I would guess that Richard is actually being paid for the frame by the charity and the difference in money raised and his price is what goes to the actual charity.

If the above assumption is true, does Richard get a tax deduction or not? I mean if you are paid for the frame, can you still deduct the intangible of putting someone on a closed list? If so, imagine how much more you can deduct for putting someone at the front of a closed 6 year list?

None of the above questions the generosity of those involved or the worthiness of the cause, just wondering is all.

[Pete Serotta]

I will bet a (yeah you now what) :beer: that the postion is not at the end of anywhere near the end of the line. Best way to find out is send the charity a note.

Typically these these type of things work by the "donation" being provided for free or cost.

Can not deduct intangible on taxes but I will leave that to the accountants. (not going to get into other type of businesses that pay more than assets and the diffference is called "good will" and has tax consequences)

Richard is a very generous fellow and yes I am biased on him almost as much as on SEROTTA. He is a gentleman and a giver!!!



I wonder how much more could be raised for charity if the spot was at the front of the line?

How do these things work anyway? I would guess that Richard is actually being paid for the frame by the charity and the difference in money raised and his price is what goes to the actual charity.

If the above assumption is true, does Richard get a tax deduction or not? I mean if you are paid for the frame, can you still deduct the intangible of putting someone on a closed list? If so, imagine how much more you can deduct for putting someone at the front of a closed 6 year list?

None of the above questions the generosity of those involved or the worthiness of the cause, just wondering is all.

[malcolm]

I suspect the frame or frame sans materials has been donated.

[Peter B]

Good cause aside, it would not be fair to all others in line to advance this ahead of longstanding orders. Unfortunately you'll be in line with everyone else. I suspect the position would fall about he same as if you'd joined the que in the waning days of his open order book. Still, for $100 you have a 1-in-100 chance at winning a custom Sachs frame made to order for you.

For those of you that lingered on the fence too long and missed the August cut-off this could be your chance!

Peter

[Louis]

Nothing against the charity, but, like most raffles, rationally this is a bad deal. I don't know how much a RS frameset costs, but let's say $4000. If you have 1:100 odds of winning (assuming a fair lottery) then the expected value of a ticket would be (1/100) x $4000 = $40. A ticket = $100, which is way more than $40, therefore bad deal.

[Bruce K]

Not a bad deal at all.

You gat a Sachs frame set for $100 if you win. The charity benefits from the balance.

You either get to deduct the $100 if you lose or pay taxdes on the $3900 balance if you win.

In any case....

IT'S A FUNDRAISER.

BK

[benb]

Right at the Bottom of the page...

Please Note: purchase of a raffle ticket is not considered a charitable contribution according to the IRS.

[Bruce K]

So I didn't read the fine print. :crap:

The bottom line is that Louis assertion that this is a bad deal is flawed logic (sorry Louis).

The winner only pays $100. The losers have donated $100 to the charity, deductable or not. The charity has paid Richard for a frame set (unless he is donating it - which is possible). So the net to the charity is significant.

A very worthy endeavor.

BK

[Peter B]

Folks, this is a charity fundraiser. Do a bit of research into Histiocytosis, Google Dr. Kenneth McClain (leading US Histio doc, based in Texas), PM me about the Big Fix. We're raising money to help kids and families of kids who are battling a very difficult disease. We're not hawking an investment. The fact that Richard has gotten behind this by offering a frame to help is wonderful. That you might win one of his frames is great. But I encourage you to consider buying a ticket primarily out of charity.

Peter

Nothing against the charity, but, like most raffles, rationally this is a bad deal. I don't know how much a RS frameset costs, but let's say $4000. If you have 1:100 odds of winning (assuming a fair lottery) then the expected value of a ticket would be (1/100) x $4000 = $40. A ticket = $100, which is way more than $40, therefore bad deal.

[Louis]

I'm still not sure where my logic or math is flawed.

If you want to apply criteria other than math that's fine with me, I'm just pointing out the numbers behind the deal. Stuff like this is just a way to get folks to contribute to a particular cause and I have no problem with that. However, it helps to at least understand what's going on. Mathematically it's a bad deal. 1 in 100 sounds great, but in reality, given the cost of the ticket it's not that big a deal.

Emotionally for you it might be a great deal. Go for it.

Louis

[93legendti]

Not a bad deal at all.

You gat a Sachs frame set for $100 if you win. The charity benefits from the balance.

You either get to deduct the $100 if you lose or pay taxdes on the $3900 balance if you win.

In any case....

IT'S A FUNDRAISER.

BK
Bruce is right.


$100 gets you the chance to win a $4,000 custom frameset that, unless you are a prior customer of RS's*, you have NO chance of buying even at $4,000.

Seems like a heck of a chance for only $100. Even if the $100 only got a spot on the waiting list AND you still had to pay $4,000, many would think it was a good deal. What's the beef?



*When RS "closed" his waiting list in 8/08 it was only to those who had not previously been RS customers...iirc.

[93legendti]

Folks, this is a charity fundraiser. Do a bit of research into Histiocytosis, Google Dr. Kenneth McClain (leading US Histio doc, based in Texas), PM me about the Big Fix. We're raising money to help kids and families of kids who are battling a very difficult disease. We're not hawking an investment. The fact that Richard has gotten behind this by offering a frame to help is wonderful. That you might win one of his frames is great. But I encourage you to consider buying a ticket primarily out of charity.

Peter
Peter, is there a link for the $100 raffle ticket?