red and blue america

[Climb01742]

looking at the political maps tonight/this morning, america really does look like two countries. it's a little scary. but i wonder (hope?) if we're really that different? our little cycling world here seems pretty well balanced. so here's a message (a hope?) from blue america to all our cycling buddies in red america...i'll block the wind for you, if you'll block the wind for me. i'll give you a water bottle if you'll give me an energy bar. i'll wait for you at the top of the hill if you'll wait for me at the bottom. and i'll buy the first round if you buy the second. maybe america isn't as divided as it looks, but actually this...we've only found candidates and parties more interested in preying on what divides us, instead of finding and building on what we share. if any red-staters ever find themselves in this most blue of blue states, let's go for a ride. and let's ride side by side. :beer:

[JohnS]

Well said!

[William]

Ditto!

I'm with you 100% on that!


William :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . between the heartland and the coasts is nothing new. What really intrigues me is why it’s like that. Are the coasts more “worldly” or more left leaning (Democratic) just because they ARE on the coasts and are more “exposed” to the outside world--as if the influence comes wafting across the water on the wind? Hmmm . . .

But I digress. What I really wanted to say was that I agree with you 100%, Climb. Well said.

BBDave

[BumbleBeeDave]

Aren’t you the first forumite to go over 2,000 posts? Congratulations! Should I make a concession speech? ;)

BBDave

[Bruce K]

Eloquent as usual Climb.

BK

PS - Congrats (or should it be condolences?) on the 2K posting mark.

[Tom]

It is time for everybody to work together in a progressive way, always thinking of the long term.

[zank]

Beautifully put, Climb. If you ever find your way out to the Worcester area, let's ride...
zank

[Too Tall]

Good words Climbissimo, for no good reason I'd like to share one of my favorite Soliloquy's. This one from the Wizard of OZ:

Lion: Courage! What makes a king out of a slave? Courage! What makes the flag on the mast to wave? Courage! What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist, or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? Courage! What makes the sphinx the seventh wonder? Courage! What makes the dawn come up like thunder? Courage! What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the "ape" in apricot? What have they got that I ain't got?

All: Courage!

[Climb01742]

is there a prize for being the first to 2000 posts? a free frame? a $2000 discount on a frame? a cap? an admonition to get a life? ;)

[Bruce K]

You said the last one Climb, we didn't. ;)

I'll tell you what, in honor of your achievement, I'll buy you a coffee the next time we can get together and ride. Even though I'm a DD guy (can't you tell by my svelte, aerodynamic build? :rolleyes: ), I'll even spring for Starbucks.

BK

[slowgoing]

Unfortunately, I think the two groups really are that different. Sure, you can share biking and a beer together, but you'll have little else in common to talk about.

[PanTerra]

Looking at the states map, I was wondering when the colors were swapped. I remember for years it was the other way around, and then noticed the change last year. i'm still trying to get used to it. The other way made so much more sense.

[JohnS]

At least now Kerry can start wearing his "real" biking clothes again! :banana:

[Dekonick]

Perhaps we should change from the electorate college to a modern concept - just tally the votes! The most voted for person wins!

Too bad a Serotta probably won't be in the Whitehouse... unless Ben & co start making mtn bikes again! (hey - good idea!)

At least no matter who wins, they ride.

[Bruce K]

Actually slow, we have lots to talk about besides bikes.

We can even talk politics as long as we talk, not yell, not pontificate, but talk.

For me, one of the great things about this group is that we are so varied, can give each other grief when needed :rolleyes: (or sometimes not :D ) and still share beer :beer: , food, weekends, rides, etc. :banana:

As one of the political distaff members of this group I have yet to be made to feel unwelcome (maybe a little outlawed - but not unwelcome) for my political views.

We have lots to share (see all the old threads that were off topic) and that, for me, is the best part of this group.

Now that the election season is over, maybe some of these other topics will come to the fore again.

Let's see:

Santa Claus, real or fake?
What will be your next auto purchase?
Will Serotta Alyson ever ride a bike with us?

I'm sure we'll have fun regardless.

BK

[oracle]

the west coast appears to be teetering on the edge of falling off into the deep blue sea. congratulations to the american voters for turning out in such fine and dignified style. god bless the world.

oracle

[admin]

Will Serotta Alyson ever ride a bike with us?


Nope. Next question.
:banana:

[spiderman]

seems to be even more urban vs rural than anything...
...iowa seems to reflect the geographic national trends
as well as any state...
maybe a 'ride of unity'
should be organized way out here...
...so we can put our differences aside
and ride for the common good
and focus on what unites
rather than divides us...
first round on me!

[Lost Weekend]

Very well said Climb! This is really what it should be all about. The 3rd and 4th rounds are on me for everyone!!!!!!!!

[Bruce K]

Hey Alyson -

You can't knock a guy for trying.

:banana: :banana:

BK

[Spinner]

agree that we must become united, however that usually means some give and take. assuming that the current administration remains in place, it's difficult for me to imagine any give. help.

a frustrated buckeye resident :confused:

[Smiley]

My Bigger question is does Serotta Alyson have a bike or even a Serotta. The Captain who hails from the democratic Republic of Egypt , where we have elections and vote for the same guy every time out cause the other guy seems to dissapear after the elections. Glad to live where our vote makes a difference. We are very lucky indeed to have an open democratic system.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . his opinion (and I may even agree with it! ;) ).

But I think a lack of a spirit of cooperation, of "give and take" is something that afflicts BOTH parties and the country as a whole these days. There just does not seem to be an ability to compromise any more. One of the networks had Senator Bob Kerry (no relation to John, as far as I know) on last night and he was talking about how, above all else, this election shows the "deep cultural divide" in this country today.

I think he's right, but not because I'm a poly sci major or anything. It's just from daily observations. Everyone seems to want what they want and nothing less, or they'll die tryin' to at least keep the other guy from gettin' his.

Am I alone in feeling this way? :confused:

BBdave

[Big Dan]

I think the whole nation divided is overblown...If you look at what goes on in other countries our disagreements are not black or white. They are more like different shades of grey. Most Americans still want the same things and come together when things get tough :beer:

[TmcDet]

back yrs ago I was lucky enough to do a fair bit of traveling around this country. I would go into a place and work about 60 hrs or so in a weeks time with people that I didn't know at all before I got there. The one thing that impressed me thru this is that all of us are basically the same and that we can all get along (have many friends from this travel)....if we stay away from the political stances atleast

Now having said that there was 2 cities that I went to that this was not the case....won't name the cities but don't wanna go back to them either

[bcm119]

Theres a difference between our citizens' shades of gray and our political party's agendas. The former can be put aside for the sake of human kindness; the latter is extremely dangerous.

Headset said it best: help.

[93legendti]

agree that we must become united, however that usually means some give and take. assuming that the current administration remains in place, it's difficult for me to imagine any give. help.

a frustrated buckeye resident :confused:

Not if the Dems don't admit they lost and lost big; that the Repubs speak for the center and the Dems now speak for the far left.

[Richard]

It's hard to believe that there are 55,300,000 "far left" voters in America. I guess that means there are 58,600,000 "right wing lunatics," also.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . This thread is now officially headed down the slippery slope. I'm going to go back to cycling now.

So Climbo, how do you like those new carbon bars? . . .

BBDave

[jeffg]

Not if the Dems don't admit they lost and lost big; that the Repubs speak for the center and the Dems now speak for the far left.

Given the closeness of the election for president, it seems clear that both candidates speak for about half the country. That to me is the very definition of division. We are not talking about a Reagan or Clinton second term reelection here. Also labels such as "far left" are generally ideological and thus not very helpful. Is Delay far right? Is Kerry far left? Left or right of what?

So: The takeaway from this election, aside from labels or spin, is that the Republican party is the majority party in this country by a slim but undeniable margin. Bush has won the popular and electoral vote, and both houses of Congress are Republican by small but solid majorities. Hence the talk about putting aside differences. On the other hand, if the democracts spoke only to the "far left," then with 240+ electoral votes and 44 seats in the Senate, then much of the country responds to the "far left," which would indicate a much deeper divide than I believe is actually the case.

Facit: What climb said ...

[93legendti]

It's hard to believe that there are 55,300,000 "far left" voters in America. I guess that means there are 58,600,000 "right wing lunatics," also.

Take away the NY Times, Dan Rather, Michael Moore, CNN, Sarandon, Springsteen, Penn, Afleck, Sheen, CBS, NBC, etc...what do you have? Smoke and mirrors...a guy with good hair and a loudmouth, crass, low class, false snob (ex-republican), enmbarassing, wealthy wife.

[admin]

My Bigger question is does Serotta Alyson have a bike or even a Serotta.

No bikes for me. The last bike I had was when I was 15 and wasn't old enough to drive. :banana:

[Climb01742]

93legendti--is that the most gracious way to celebrate victory? :beer:

[93legendti]

93legendti--is that the most gracious way to celebrate victory? :beer:
When the Dems apologize for the awful things they said about the Pres.;
When the liberal media apologize for lying to us and trying to steal the election;
When the Dems admit THEY (they did lose--news flash!) have to work w/ the Pres. not the other way around, I will be gracious.

Until then:

BOO HOO! I am going for a victory lap on my HC Cross.

[M_A_Martin]

Don't they all have to work for the American People?


(No, I don't need clarification...thanks)


I think Alyson would look good on a bike similar to those Kona Choppers...

:)

[Climb01742]

93 legend, but the spirit of this thread is to try to put some of the election's low points behind us and find some common ground among americans and cyclists. isn't that worth trying?

[93legendti]

I forgot George Soros.

[weisan]

No bikes for me. The last bike I had was when I was 15 and wasn't old enough to drive. :banana:

Can I use your alloted share of employee's discount to purchase the 54 Hors on the demo page then? :D Pleaseeeeee....

[jeffg]

93legendti--is that the most gracious way to celebrate victory? :beer:

This individual's posts on this topic are an object lesson in the ideological divide in this country among true partisans (or should I say believers). There is an analogous list of things that democratic partisans would likely "demand apologies" for. IMHO politicians on both sides and the media in particular owe the American people an apology, if anything. If both sides stick to their guns until they think the other side has redressed their grievances in full, then there is no negotiation (in the broad sense) and no reconciliation possible.

Fortunately, I believe such sentiments are in the minority.

[Ozz]

When the Dems apologize for the awful things they said about the Pres.;
When the liberal media apologize for lying to us and trying to steal the election;
When the Dems admit THEY (they did lose--news flash!) have to work w/ the Pres. not the other way around, I will be gracious.

Until then:

BOO HOO! I am going for a victory lap on my HC Cross.

to borrow a phase previously used...."so many angry people...so many."

But it was strange how nothing negative was slung at Kerry during the campaign...he really got off easy didn't he?? ;)

Enjoy your ride and "stay the course"! :)

[Climb01742]

ironic that a thread on reconcilliation should turn rancorous. peace, everyone... and let's go for a ride before this turns ugly. :beer:

[bags27]

I went up to New Hampshire yesterday as part of an effort to get the vote out for Kerry. I was in a small town, in a steady drizzle, temp. around 42. People--Democrats and (unfortunately :) ) Republicans waiting 2 or more hours, kids at their sides, to vote. It was an awesome sight. That's the spirit that Climb was expressing, I think.

The other side of this is not so much 93legendti's crass partisanship (pretty equal on both sides but fortunately transitory), but the reality of programs and policies that satisfy one group and utterly dismay the other. I have gay friends who feel completely humiliated, yet I also ride with a good buddy who thinks gay marriage is an abomination. Abortion is murder to some, a godsend to others. Ditto foreign policy, social security, environmental issues etc. There are real and lasting policy decisions that will be made by a party that now strongly controls all three branches of gov't. Who knows? Maybe a century from now, people will look back and say these policies saved the country and the world. Or maybe they will conclude the opposite.

I wrote this before, but posted it apparently just after, Climb's most recent. He's probably right, after all.

[cpg]

Climb01742 poster extraordinaire has it right. Let's move on to less contentious issues like gay rights, abortion and religion.<grin> Hey, I thought this was the Serotta site? Get out there and ride to either celebrate or blow off some steam and how about we stay away from topics so far from what we can all agree on... bikes.

Curt

[Sandy]

Serotta Alyson does not have a Serotta??? She doesn't even have a bike! She doesn't even ride a bike??

I am TOTALLY devastated!! I don't know if I will be able to survive this.

I sense a name change: Serotta Alyson should now be called Serottaless Alyson.

So Sad Serotta Sandy

[bulliedawg]

Not if the Dems don't admit they lost and lost big; that the Repubs speak for the center and the Dems now speak for the far left.

^ Say hello to the problem^

[bulliedawg]

When the Dems apologize for the awful things they said about the Pres.;
When the liberal media apologize for lying to us and trying to steal the election;
When the Dems admit THEY (they did lose--news flash!) have to work w/ the Pres. not the other way around, I will be gracious.

Until then:

BOO HOO! I am going for a victory lap on my HC Cross.

^Dumb arse^

This is fun...like shootin' fish in a barrel...

[JohnS]

She almost sounds like bikes are beneath her. Egad...she's one of those "car" people. Doesn't she know by now how much fun us Serotta riders are? :D

[Sandy]

Serottaless Alyson may not ride a bike, but she seems to possess mystical powers. Somehow she ALWAYS knows what is being said on this forum, and I suspect that this thread might be getting a visit by her soon. Sad, since the original post had a wonderful theme.

Sad Sandy

[admin]

Serottaless Alyson may not ride a bike, but she seems to possess mystical powers. Somehow she ALWAYS knows what is being said on this forum, and I suspect that this thread might be getting a visit by her soon. Sad, since the original post had a wonderful theme.

Sad Sandy

If we devote this thread to only talking about me and my mystical powers, I will keep it open. :banana:
Otherwise, it is about 2 posts away from being banished. :no:

-Serottaless Alyson

[Sandy]

How about a Serotta tricycle? A Serotta unicycle? A Serotta tandem which you and I would share together? OK, OK,.... I undersand. Nix the idea about the Serotta tandem.

How about a Serotta bicycle with a side car? How about a Serotta Spincycle?



Still So Sad,

Sandy

[Spinner]

With the exception of Alyson, the only thing that all forum posters agree on is that bikes and bicycling are great.

Most of the time I'm greatly amused by the fervent feelings for/against Shimano, Campy, Carbon, Steel, STI, downtube shifters, 9 speed, 10 speed, polyester, wool, clinchers, tubulars, LBSs, Nashbar, Colorado Cyclist, light wheelsets, heavy wheelsets, etc.

It's great that through this forum we can share our opinions. What is questionable is when we are so ardent in our beliefs that we unwittingly convey overt distain for others. :no:

[bulliedawg]

93legendti's idiot comments aside, I'm personally relieved that President Bush won both the electoral college and the popular vote. I think that will go a long way towards a decrease in the bitterness left over from 2000.

As for 93legendti, I hope he watches the president today. He might learn something about accepting the spoils of victory with class.

[Climb01742]

If we devote this thread to only talking about me and my mystical powers, I will keep it open. :banana:
Otherwise, it is about 2 posts away from being banished. :no:

-Serottaless Alyson

sorry, alyson. when i started this thread i didn't see it ending up this way. maybe i should have seen it coming. but thanks for letting us have this much leash. :rolleyes:

[Bruce K]

Hey Climb -

No need to apologize. We were doing pretty good (IMHO) until 1 particular poster went over the top.

That's a lot of discourse from a pretty well thought out and cogent original comment.

You are to be lauded :banana: and applauded. :hello:

I think we need an autmnal ride with warm cider before the season escapes us.

BK

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and 93LegendTi is wrong and obviously needs to go out for a ride.

Thanks to Climb for putting things in their proper perspective and let's move on.

BBDave

[OldDog]

YOU ROCK!!!!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[shinomaster]

the west coast appears to be teetering on the edge of falling off into the deep blue sea. congratulations to the american voters for turning out in such fine and dignified style. god bless the world.

oracle

Did the west Vote for BUSH?? Explain Oracle..

[Ozz]

[QUOTE=bulliedawg]...I'm personally relieved that President Bush won both the electoral college and the popular vote. I think that will go a long way towards a decrease in the bitterness left over from 2000....QUOTE]

Good point....regardless of who is in charge, we're all in this country (and planet) together! :beer:

[shinomaster]

^ Say hello to the problem^


Ahmen Brother! I am fightened..

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Where did my poll go? Did it get rude and ugly, or was it just too rude and ugly from the start?

Regards,

Vanilla Gorilla :confused:

[malcolm]

I would vote for a dead dog before I would vote democratic. I've always felt that way. I vote my pocket book and what I feel is good for it and my family. Most social issues ie: gay rights and abortion I have a difficult time understanding how these are elevated to the status they are with all the other problems world wide. Both sides in this race were appalling and reminded me of bickering school boys.
Why can't we find someone outside the two party system that is economically conservative and more socially moderate or even liberal. It seems we continue to have the same candidates, rich guys from wealthy backgrounds that have no idea what the average american is like. We need limit the spending on elections. Have a federal allowance and limited TV time and once you exceed that you are finished you can't have contributions or dip into your billions.
The parties and candidates divide america. I've traveled extensively and spent time in the military and people are generally the same. They wan't to have deccent jobs and places to live and not give 40+% of their income to pay for who knows what. I just spent a week in San Francisco, does it get more blue and my very red self was well recieved.
This was my rant not intended to offend, just another perspective. Blue is always welcome in my home we judge by humaness ( I think I made up that word) not by color or party affiliation. My wife is a university academic so I get plenty of liberal exposure. I'm apolitical for the next four years.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Please, PLEASE put this thread out of its (our) misery and let's talk about all that new carbon stuff at Interbike or something! . . .

BBdave

[admin]

I may not have a bike, but I do have the power to lock threads!