Front Shifting Problem

[Pete Serotta]

I have a Goodrich that we are trying to put an Ultegra 9 speed sti on with a TA TRiple 26/36/46. The Front Der is using the band type attachment to the der.

Problem is that we can not get enough throw on the Front to shift to big ring. It is 28.6 tube. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Is there a different front DER needed?

It is not the "limit" screws nor the alignment of the BB which is a Phil Wood. Everything else works ok.

The Mechanic is EXCELLENT (no it is not me) and has worked on my bikes for over 15 years.

THANKS

[Ray]

Pete,

I've set up a fair number of compact triples over the years and never had much luck with STI on the front. I've pretty much always either used friction for the front (usually barcon, sometimes downtube), or something that approximates it, like Campy with its tiny little ratchet movements. Even then, I've found that Shimano front derailures don't work that well with those ratios. Campy triples (any of 'em) seem to work better with those little rings. I don't even begin to know why, but its nearly always true.

If you have an excellent mechanic who can't get it to work, it might just not work.

-Ray

[giordana93]

how much clearance do you have between the inner ring and the chain stay? if it's more than a few mm, it just might be bb alignment after all. maybe a derailleur with more throw exists, and is in fact required, but I would check the above first. is the bb spindle the one indicated for TA?
good luck

[victoryfactory]

Pete;
I hope this is not too simplistic, but I think the STI triple shifter has a longer
throw than the double, are you trying to use a double shifter?
Also I assume you are using a triple FD, not a double?
Finally, there is a different BB for triples, I think the regular BB puts the
big ring too far away.

Triple shifting put the geometry of most frames, which are designed for double
right on the edge. Some setups just will never shift right in my experience.
Please forgive me if I am full of ****e and missed the point.

VF

[eddief]

looking at a zillion options on the Peter White website would suggest this should be a snap....NOT! Maybe he'd bless you with answer if you email or call. I bet he knows.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bottombrackets.asp

[CNY rider]

Pete, I think that frame is probably no good.
You can send it up here to me, I'll dispose of it properly. Don't worry yourself over it any more.

[benb]

Exactly which front derailleur are you using... ?

Shifters & derailleurs are designed to work together.. the linkage on the derailleur is built to assume the shifter pulls a specific amount of cable... use it with a different shifter & you won't have any luck no matter what you do to the cable tension or the limit screws.

With that selection of rings I'd be inclined to try a mountain bike front deraiuller.. I'd guess some of the shimano ones will work with an STI shifter... and the MTB front deraiuller cages are designed for rings in that size range.

[SadieKate]

What front derailleur are you using? Unless something has changed over the years, Shimano road levers will not shift front mtb derailleurs.

I had Shimano R600 levers working fine with both a clamp-on 105 and a RSX front der, a Sugino triple 26-36-48 on a 28.6 seat tube.

I did swap to Campy levers just because I prefer them but the R600 (Ultegra level) did work as intended. This bike still has the 105 front der on it. The curve matches the rings better than the other road derailleurs.

[Ray]

What front derailleur are you using? Unless something has changed over the years, Shimano road levers will not shift front mtb derailleurs.

I had Shimano R600 levers working fine with both a clamp-on 105 and a RSX front der, a Sugino triple 26-36-48 on a 28.6 seat tube.

I did swap to Campy levers just because I prefer them but the R600 (Ultegra level) did work as intended. This bike still has the 105 front der on it. The curve matches the rings better than the other road derailleurs.
Remember, the old RSX gear was designed for 26-36-46. I'm not aware of any other Shimano setup that was or is. That coulda been why.

-Ray

[woolly]

I did something similar once on a Surly Crosscheck. Used an old-shcool XTR front derailluer with STI & it shifted great. I bet an old RSX front changer would fix you up nicely too.

[SadieKate]

Remember, the old RSX gear was designed for 26-36-46. I'm not aware of any other Shimano setup that was or is. That coulda been why.

-RayYep, that was why. I don't remember why I changed to 105 but it works fine. Maybe the 105 fit the 48 ring better? Dunnoh at this point.

[Pete Serotta]

Called PETE WHITE today and he is on vacation.

DBRK's shop is closed on WED so I will call tomorrow

Additionally, the triple "stuff" worked on a SEROTTA. Only difference is the front DER which is a 9 speed triple.

THe BARCOM that Ray mentioned (or friction) might be the only answer left, although I will send PETER a note and talk to the other shop tomorrow. It is weird for it did not even work too well with the SHIMANO crank.

(IT IS NOT THE FRAME) and if need be I will put the campy triple on.

UOTE=eddief]looking at a zillion options on the Peter White website would suggest this should be a snap....NOT! Maybe he'd bless you with answer if you email or call. I bet he knows.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bottombrackets.asp[/QUOTE]

[Pete Serotta]

good idea....I will check with the mechanic


Remember, the old RSX gear was designed for 26-36-46. I'm not aware of any other Shimano setup that was or is. That coulda been why.

-Ray

[Pete Serotta]

;) ;) I will mail it yesterday

Pete, I think that frame is probably no good.
You can send it up here to me, I'll dispose of it properly. Don't worry yourself over it any more.

[SadieKate]

good idea....I will check with the mechanic
Hey, I'm the one who mentioned RSX. Some kind of discrimination going on? :p

Just for that, I won't go dig around in the box in the garage since I can't remember if I sold it . . . . .

[Pete Serotta]

I was going to check with the mech to see if he had one. My mountain bike is an 8 speed

Hey, I'm the one who mentioned RSX. Some kind of discrimination going on? :p

Just for that, I won't go dig around in the box in the garage since I can't remember if I sold it . . . . .

[Ahneida Ride]

Pete

Call Rick up at Mtn Cycology, Ludlow, Vt.

I bet he knows and Rick would be happy to chat. The guy love bikes.

Hey, he got my 22 (yes 22) /36/48 TA Zephyr running perfectly.
Rear is Campy 13-29 .

20 - 100 gear inches.

I know he cold set (bent) my FD just a hair.

I am running a old 2002 Record Triple FD. Perhaps that is why she
works so well. The Old Record Triple FD has tons of trim.

Are you running a Triple FD ?

In any event, call Rick. They guy has worked on almost everything
and has tons of little tricks up his sleeve.

[Ray]

THe BARCOM that Ray mentioned (or friction) might be the only answer left, although I will send PETER a note and talk to the other shop tomorrow. It is weird for it did not even work too well with the SHIMANO crank.
Pete, when the cable is removed from the derailure and the outside limit screw is all the way out, can you manually move the derailure out over the big ring? If so, its just a matter of finding a shifter that will pull enough cable and any triple barcon (I think they're all triple-able, although some downtube shifters weren't) should work. But if you can't pull the derailure out far enough by hand, no shifter in the world is gonna help - you'd need a different derailure and probably also a different shifter. BTW, it's barcon, with a N.

-Ray

[sg8357]

I have a TA with 48/36/24 and used to have a Zephyr with 46/34/22.

The Shimano 105 triple derailer was OK with the 48 big ring,
but choked on the 46.
I used a Campy Triple front derailer with both of the above setups fine.
Shifters were Suntour power ratchets, Shimano bar-cons and Campy Ergo.

[Pete Serotta]

thanks everyone... I will keep you posted on the final fix..... PETE

[sam.g]

Pete,

FWIW: Since 2003 I've been running a TA Zephyr 50/36/26 on my HC with 9 speed DA front and back with no problems. I seem to remember something said by Pete White or on his web site cautioning against using an Ultegra FD. The HC does have a 27.2 seat tube so results may vary.

Sam in Cincy

[Pete Serotta]

got one on order. Thanks
Pete,

FWIW: Since 2003 I've been running a TA Zephyr 50/36/26 on my HC with 9 speed DA front and back with no problems. I seem to remember something said by Pete White or on his web site cautioning against using an Ultegra FD. The HC does have a 27.2 seat tube so results may vary.

Sam in Cincy

[Pete Serotta]

Ray, thanks,,,,understand you were on with him right before I called. he gave us some things to try tonight.

PETE
Pete

Call Rick up at Mtn Cycology, Ludlow, Vt.

I bet he knows and Rick would be happy to chat. The guy love bikes.

[fiamme red]

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/derailers-front.html

IRD Alpina:

'The only currently available front derailer that is designed for mid-range ("compact road") triple chainwheels and compatible with Shimano "road" (drop handlebar) STI shifter indexing.'

[Ken Robb]

I ran 46-36-26 Zephyr in 9 speed DA groupo and it worked ok but I had to shift and then trim back on one combo every time. I think it was big to middle.

I put the same cranks and BB on a 10 spd. Chorus groupo on my Kirk and it was all fine with mid-length rear derailer.

[Ahneida Ride]

Pete ...

A good buddy of mine, let me use her "beater bike" for the NYC
5 boro's tour last year... left my Serotta home.

Thank God I did, cause I got run into .... WHAM .... I went flying.
I gotta appreciate helmets.

Anyway, I took a nice hit ( but no frame structural damage, it's a 30 lb
steel monster) ..... I drove the bike up to Rick. He got real excited.
He pulled out some ole tools that he never uses anymore and went to work.
After 15 minutes that puppy was running like a charm. Even I was
amazed.

I cleaned it up real well (semichrome + wax) and she sold it at
a garage sale for some good frn. Someone got a sweet beater bike.

[Pete Serotta]

FIXED AND the maim culprit of not shifting was a Front Der that would not shift all the way over (found by taking cable off). Replaced it! Thanks you (everyone ) for your assistance PETE

Will post pictures and ride report on the GOODRICH as soon as I can. Curt did a very nice job on it.

[Ken Robb]

[QUOTE=Serotta_Pete]FIXED AND the maim culprit of not shifting was a Front Der that would not shift all the way over (found by taking cable off). Replaced it!

cable or derailer?

[nohappen]

If you have an excellent mechanic who can't get it to work, it might just not work.

[victoryfactory]

FIXED AND the maim culprit of not shifting was a Front Der that would not shift all the way over (found by taking cable off). Replaced it! Thanks you (everyone ) for your assistance PETE

Pete, when the cable is removed from the derailure and the outside limit screw is all the way out, can you manually move the derailure out over the big ring? If so, its just a matter of finding a shifter that will pull enough cable and any triple barcon (I think they're all triple-able, although some downtube shifters weren't) should work. But if you can't pull the derailure out far enough by hand, no shifter in the world is gonna help - you'd need a different derailure and probably also a different shifter. BTW, it's barcon, with a N.

-Ray


I think Ray gets the big prize on this one

vf

[Pete Serotta]

It was the der. While it looked fine, the throw was less than an identical other one.