OT- Do you let your cats or dogs chase little critters?

[Sandy]

I have a American Pit Bull Terrier. The origin of the dog, most accepted, is that it is some mix of the old bulldog and one or more terriers. Terriers are well know for their aggressive chase tendencies towards little creatures. In fact they were bred to go to ground and chase/corner/catch little critters.

I love my dog but also care a great deal about other animals. My dog is never outside without me or my wife (almost always me) and I am the only one who walks him- always with a harness and 6 foot leash. He has learned not to try to chase squirrels, chipmunks, rabbits, and birds during walks, and is learning some not to try to pull to get to deer.

The problem I am having with him is that although I am with him in the fenced yard when he is out back, he often has a focus on chasing squirrels, rabbits, field mice, chipmunks, and even birds. He is a very fast, quick, and alert athlete and has a superb sense of smell, excellent, vision, and hearing. He is terrier based. All together that tanslates into an excellent rodent/small critter hunter. He, unfortunatley, has caught and killed some of these little creatures and that bothers me.

Questions- For those of you who have cats or dogs who tend to hunt for the aforementioned creatures, do you allow them to do such as they are doing what they were bred to do, or do you simply not allow it to happen (by leash or some form of control) ? Do your cats or dogs, if they catch one of the above, do it just for the chase or do they kill it?

I want my dog to be a dog, but I don't like him killing other little animals, and I wonder what I should do.

Thanks for any comments. I apologize to anyone who does not like animal threads on the forum. I ask it here as I respect greatly the opinions of those who frequent the forum.


Sandy

[Blue Jays]

Perhaps hang chimes on your backdoor and it will condition other animals/birds in your yard? They'll hear the door open, the subsequent chimes, and recognize a dog follows shortly thereafter.
I'm just taking a wild guess. It might work, it might not.

[Sandy]

Perhaps hang chimes on your backdoor and it will condition other animals/birds in your yard? They'll hear the door open, the subsequent chimes, and recognize a dog follows shortly thereafter.
I'm just taking a wild guess. It might work, it might not.

Now that is a clever idea. I had thought of making some loud noise, but I thought that my neighbors would not like that, especially real late at night.

Thanks for the great suggestion.


Sandy

[fierte_poser]

Or put bells on the dog. Big loud bells.

I say let the dog be a dog inside the back yard, unless it brings out other bad behaviors that you would rather not have present. Here's a thought...is he getting enough exercise? If not, he might be hunting in the backyard due to boredom/restlessness.

Breeds have been developed to specialize in each of 4 phases of the hunt: the stalk, the chase, the knock down, and the kill.

I own a greyhound. He just wants to chase. I'm not sure what he would do if he ever got close enough to a critter to knock it down, but he never gets the chance, because I don't have a yard and he is always on leash during walks. We've progressed to polite observation of bunny rabbits during walks. Squirrels, however, are too irresistible to with their herky jerky movements and tree climbing abilities.

[Dekonick]

Truckie loves to chase little critters too. I don't know if he has ever caught anything - if he has they were left somewhere in the woods. I let him be himself in the yard - chase away. It helps keep the deer and fox out, and gives him good exercise. It also helps keep those pesky wierdo's in spandex who ride bikes away too!

On the leash I am firm and do not let him chase anything. In his yard, fair game. :D

Say - Sandy... want to come over and ride??? :D

[Sandy]

Or put bells on the dog. Big loud bells.

I say let the dog be a dog inside the back yard, unless it brings out other bad behaviors that you would rather not have present. Here's a thought...is he getting enough exercise? If not, he might be hunting in the backyard due to boredom/restlessness.

Breeds have been developed to specialize in each of 4 phases of the hunt: the stalk, the chase, the knock down, and the kill.

I own a greyhound. He just wants to chase. I'm not sure what he would do if he ever got close enough to a critter to knock it down, but he never gets the chance, because I don't have a yard and he is always on leash during walks. We've progressed to polite observation of bunny rabbits during walks. Squirrels, however, are too irresistible to with their herky jerky movements and tree climbing abilities.


Another excellent suggestion (using bells on the dog). My dog will kill the animal if he catches it.

A major reason that I go out with my dog into the back yard is so that he will not develop bad habbits. He would dig but I tell him "no dig". "no dig" and he stops as he knows what it means. If he ever jumps up against the fence, I tell him "off" and he understands that. If he starts barking at someone out of the yard, I do not allow him to continue very long. Setting aside the fact that I don't like aniamls being killed, I also don't want that chasing/catching/killing to be transferred outside of the yard. I believe it is hrd wired into him.

Thank you for that great suggestion.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Truckie loves to chase little critters too. I don't know if he has ever caught anything - if he has they were left somewhere in the woods. I let him be himself in the yard - chase away. It helps keep the deer and fox out, and gives him good exercise. It also helps keep those pesky wierdo's in spandex who ride bikes away too!

On the leash I am firm and do not let him chase anything. In his yard, fair game. :D

Say - Sandy... want to come over and ride??? :D

Yes. I do want to come over and ride. Not too worried about Truckie. I would never enter the yard of a dog without the permission and direction of the owner unless I felt that the dog was in some type of trouble.

I responded in another thread about riding with you. I must get started. I have done the treamill 5-6 times in the last two weeks and the trainer twice.


Sandy

[Blue Jays]

I've observed mountainbike riders who put substantial cowbells on their dogs coupled with Blaze Orange collars to prevent hunting accidents in the forest during deer season.
The technique definitely works, and one would have to specifically remember to put the bell on the dog each time he ventures outside.

[RIHans]

The cat was an outside, thank you very much, cat. I kinda like cats, independant, ok.
I liked it when he dragged home little "gifts" to the back door. He was thinking of me.
Kitty got a treat for every kill.

Then, younger and thoughtful
Now, older and less forgiving
No cats

[Ray]

Breeds have been developed to specialize in each of 4 phases of the hunt: the stalk, the chase, the knock down, and the kill.
Very interesting. I did not know that. My dog seems really good at the stalk and she totally sucks at all other parts of it. She's only caught critters a couple of times, usually when they both kind of stumbled onto each other and took her by surprise. And when she has, she's so surprised she drops it right away. Usually she stalks them and doesn't chase until they've caught on and gotten well up the nearest tree. Then she chases like hell and looks betrayed that they would CHEAT like that by climbing up away from her.

Since she doesn't seem able to do any harm but is endlessly entertained by this activity, I've never seen a problem with it. When she was attacked by another dog, it made me think about how instinctual it all is. The human in me feels sort of that if I don't like her being attacked, I shouldn't let her attack the squirrels and bunnies, but I also realize she knows not what she does - she just does it because she has to do it. Stopping that would seem somewhat cruel. Particularly since she's so fully awful at getting it done. It's sort of like the people on treadmills chasing the TVs at the local 'health' club. Should we stop them just because it seems stupid? They're even less likely to catch anything.

-Ray

[Sandy]

Unfortunately my dog is excellent at 3 phases given by fierte_poser. Actually he doesn't really stalk, he just hunts.

I have taken care of my daughter's adopted black lab/retriever mix several times, once for 6 months (suppose to have been 7-10 days, but my daughter with her 3 Master's degrees somehow forgot how to count :rolleyes: ). He absolutely stalked little animals like rabbits just like a cat. He would lower his body, move very slowly, lifting one leg at a time, and move forward towards the rabbit. I was amazed watching him do it. I had to literally drag him away from a hole in which a chipmunk went. He never got close enough to an animal to do anything because he was alwys on leash as at the time I had no useable fence. He was a remarkable dog in that inside the house he was remarkably gentle, and as soon as he went outside, he was transformed into a genuine stalker/hunter.

He was also unusual in that as a lab/retriever mix, he had little interest in birds (more in ducks) and was afraid of water in taking a bath and for a long while was afraid to go into the water to swim.


Sandy

[Sandy]

Any terrier "owners" out there who can tell me what there dogs are in it for? Do they kill the animal if given the chance?


Sad Sandy

[CNY rider]

Sandy I take it you are not a hunter?

I don't know what the role for a pit bull would be in hunting, if there is any at all. I ask because our golden retriever loves to go small game hunting with me in the fall. She spends all year long chasing squirrels into the woods. As a younger dog she caught a few and got nipped in the snoot a few times. Since she has no killing instinct at all she would catch them and try to gently grip them in her mouth, or hold them down with her paw, and they would turn around and nip her. Now she just merrily chases along after them.

In the fall (next week actually) when she sees me take out the .22 rifle she knows exactly what's up! We're going squirrel hunting. She loves to work back and forth through the woods and try to rustle up a squirrel for me to shoot. It's years since we've actually shot anything but that does not dim the enthusiasm at all. It's just something that's hard wired into her brain and I'm sure gives her tremendous pleasure on both the conscious and the primitive level.

Is there some constructive way to engage a pit's hunting desire, and do it safely, without having it spill over into other aggressive, disruptive behaviors? The answer may be no, but I just don't know enough about the breed.

[Sandy]

Sandy I take it you are not a hunter?

I don't know what the role for a pit bull would be in hunting, if there is any at all. I ask because our golden retriever loves to go small game hunting with me in the fall. She spends all year long chasing squirrels into the woods. As a younger dog she caught a few and got nipped in the snoot a few times. Since she has no killing instinct at all she would catch them and try to gently grip them in her mouth, or hold them down with her paw, and they would turn around and nip her. Now she just merrily chases along after them.

In the fall (next week actually) when she sees me take out the .22 rifle she knows exactly what's up! We're going squirrel hunting. She loves to work back and forth through the woods and try to rustle up a squirrel for me to shoot. It's years since we've actually shot anything but that does not dim the enthusiasm at all. It's just something that's hard wired into her brain and I'm sure gives her tremendous pleasure on both the conscious and the primitive level.

Is there some constructive way to engage a pit's hunting desire, and do it safely, without having it spill over into other aggressive, disruptive behaviors? The answer may be no, but I just don't know enough about the breed.

Excellent question about pit bulls. I have handled lots of them at a shelter but my dog is the first pit that I have owned. It is the first dog I have had for 30 years. My immediate response would be that I do not want to expand his hunting to any area outside his yard for several reasons. I will not allow him to ever be off leash out of my yard and I certainly do not want to take the chance (any chance) that allowing him to hunt would increase any aggressive tendencies he might have. He has been very well accepted in the neighborhood as he is very well behaved when I walk him. I make him move over and sit and wait if people are walking by, especially with kids. He is not aggressive at all towards other dogs. Off leash dogs have run up to him and he has done nothing. Other dogs have wanted to get at him and he pays little attention to them. I have seen some dogs give aggressive communication to him on a couple of occassions, and I have noticed that to those dogs he communicates back a different message. I don't think that he will start anything, but do not think that he will allow a dog to simply aggressively go after him. Hopefully, I will not allow it to ever happen. On the occassions that dogs have been off leash and come over to him, I have always focused on the other dog and tried to be sure the other dog could not get right on top of mine. I would keep my on a short leash and get the other dog to back off.

The retrievers,as you know were bred to softly take birds into their mouth. My daughter's black lab/retriever has the softest mouth of any dog I have ever been with. My dog takes biscuits gently. You can place a small biscuit in your mouth with a little sticking out, and he will take it very gently. Some pits will grab at a biscuit in your hand. Some will take one in a more gentle manner.



Sandy

[93legendti]

We did. We had an outdoor cat YEARS ago, before we realized we were all allergic! Anyway, the cat was basically an otudoor cat. Every morning when my Mom opened the door to get the newspaper he would be there with some little critter in his mouth. Our cat seemed to be looking for praise and my Mom usually repsonded with a shreik...

[Chad Engle]

Lab and terrier owner here. As long as you are in control of him on the leash I say let him hunt when he is off leash. He is still an animal, circle of life, predator and prey, all that stuff. I would think he would rid the yard of small animals pretty quickly.

[Ray]

We did. We had an outdoor cat YEARS ago, before we realized we were all allergic!
Hey, good to know that, for all of the political disagreement, we have something in common! Allergic as hell to cats - have been my whole life. I've learned to dislike them intensely too, through no fault of their own.

-Ray

[93legendti]

Hey, good to know that, for all of the political disagreement, we have something in common! Allergic as hell to cats - have been my whole life. I've learned to dislike them intensely too, through no fault of their own.

-Ray

Oh, we have even more in common:
Spectrums
???ish
Interested in Politics
Wives who tolerate our cycling habits...:)

I am allergic to dogs and dislike them intensely (sorry Sandy!), cats I still love....Sad, but true: My wife had a gorgeous, white cat when she moved in. I gave it 2 days, but it was a no-go...

[Kevan]

they are at the very bottom of the food chain. Heck...even plankton eat them.

[Samster]

samster: "wow. it sure is lovely out here. it's amazing how beautiful all the animals are. they all look so healthy, unlike in our american zoos."

african safari guide: "yes. the animals are very beautiful. that's because all the sick, ugly ones either got eaten or otherwise failed to reproduce."

======

maybe not directly relevant, but it was a learning moment for me so i thought i'd share.

[zap]

Difference between Cats and Dogs-----as told by their diaries

DOG DIARY

8:00 am - Dog food! My favorite thing!

9:30 am - A car ride! My favorite thing!

9:40 am - A walk in the park! My favorite thing!

10:30 am - Got rubbed and petted! My favorite thing!

12:00 pm - Lunch! My favorite thing!

1:00 pm - Played in the yard! My favorite thing!

3:00 pm - Wagged my tail! My favorite thing!

5:00 pm - Milk bones! My favorite thing!

7:00 pm - Got to play ball! My favorite thing!

8:00 pm - Wow! Watched TV with the people! My favorite thing!

11:00 pm - Sleeping on the bed! My favorite thing!



CAT DIARY

Day 983 of my captivity. My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while the other inmates and I are fed hash or some sort of dry nuggets.

Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength. The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape.

In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the carpet. Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates what I am capable of. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a 'good little hunter' I am. Bastards!

There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. However, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to the power of 'allergies'. I must learn what this means, and how to use it to my advantage.

Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow - - but at the top of the stairs.

I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches.
The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released --and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded.

[Sandy]

Lab and terrier owner here. As long as you are in control of him on the leash I say let him hunt when he is off leash. He is still an animal, circle of life, predator and prey, all that stuff. I would think he would rid the yard of small animals pretty quickly.

If he is inside and sees a squirrel or rabbit he gets excited and barks or whines. I will let him out to chase it, but I will let the squirrel or rabbit get a real good head start moving or be sure it is far enough away from my dog so the my dog can't catch it. Once my dog is out there, you no longer see a squirrrel or a rabbit. You might see a chipmunk because they hide in lots of little places and my dog has not been able to get one as they are quick and small. However field mice will be in the ground growth and are not very fast. Last night, very unfortunately, I let him out before he was going to eat dinner, and I saw him on the top of a hill spot a rabbit which is very rare once he is out. The rabbit was running very fast but I could see that that my dog was catching him. I ran as fast as I could and got to them a very short time after my dog got to the rabbit and saw the kill. I pulled him off of the rabbit but it was too late. I will bury the rabbit (and a field mouse that he got two days ago) today. Very sad to see the rabbit. Glad that it happened fast for the rabbit.


Sandy

[bigbill]

We live on around two acres of heavy forest. We have a rock retaining wall across from the garage and it is a haven to mice that chew the wiring on the honda and get into the garage. Our cat kills 2-3 mice a week and leaves them by the back door. We haven't had any issues with mice since she went on a killing spree. I'm not going to discourage her.

[Sandy]

We live on around two acres of heavy forest. We have a rock retaining wall across from the garage and it is a haven to mice that chew the wiring on the honda and get into the garage. Our cat kills 2-3 mice a week and leaves them by the back door. We haven't had any issues with mice since she went on a killing spree. I'm not going to discourage her.

Cats certainly have the ability to keep the mouse population down. Certain breeds of dogs have shown a remarkable ability in destroying rats. There is quite a history of that.



Sandy

[Sandy]

Any terrier owners who might be able to tell me their experience with terriers? My dog is probably part terrier.


Sandy