I burned a bridge yesterday

[Kervin]

I'm posting this to see if I'm just thinking of things the wrong way. I've changed the names so that if someone wants to respond, they can, but their reputation won't be hurt if they don't.

Here's the overall picture, I sold a used seat post to Mr. Red. He is un-happy with it and wants a refund.

Here are the PM's:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Red
Hello Kervin,

Due to a family emergency this past weekend I never went on my century ride so I couldn't try the seatpost out till yesterday. I inspected the tiny serrations on the clamp area Prior to installing and I noticed about some of the clamps holding spots were worn down. I proceeded to install the seatpost anyways per Campagnolo's manual including their prescribed torque settings. On a 20 mile bike ride the saddle moved twice with a resounding crackle each time that literally scared me into shock. Titanium frames will resonate anything very loudly. Late last night I did some research on this issue with Campagnolo seatposts and amazingly I was not the only one that has had this problem. Apparently when Campy went from 1mm to 0.5mm it put the whole seatpost at risk of slipping over the tiny serrations. I could try to ride again but I suspect it will happen again. I hate to increase the torque setting beyond Campy's recommendation because they give strict warning not to exceed it for fear of catastrophic failure of the clamps. Let me know if I can return the seatpost for a refund or if you have any other suggestions allowing me to use this seatpost safely.

Mr. Red


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kervin
Mr Red,
I'm sorry you are having a problem with the seat post. I never used the post and I got it used from Mr. Green. Maybe he can help you with a reciept to get it taken care of by Campagnolo USA.
I actually have your check with me today. I do not feel that it is right for you to ask me to give you your money back. It's a bit hard to tell for post marks, but it seems that you got the post before you sent the check. You had the chance to look everything over before you rode it. If you feel that the post is different from how I told you it was, then that is one thing, but it seems that you are saying the design changes make it not as good as you hope, that's another.
When I buy used bike parts, I save some money and take some risk. If you do a search, you'll see I got a used Record carbon crank from Mr. Blue. I looked it over when I got it, rode it and something bad happened to it. The thought of asking him for my money back, never crossed my mind.

Kervin





Kervin,

You are absolutely correct about me sending out the check before I used the product. I did look it over but it never ocurred to me to use a magnifying glass to check out the serrations in the clamp area. I trusted they were okay. It wasn't until the saddle moved twice on a ride yesterday that I needed to check them out. If someone had this problem with me I would gladly give back the check and apologize that I sent out a defective product. But thats me.

Mr. Red

[Lifelover]

Seems like quite a bit of drama over a used seat post.

While I generally agree with your position, I would have sent Mr. Red his money back and not said one word.

[Charles M]

Personally I take a high res picture (or two) of anything I give to anyone else. It settles the "it was broken" arguement.


In this case, either you're getting ripped off or he is. Beyond that is speculation.


Campy isn't going to warranty the post.

Man I wish you both luck...

[Dave B]

fwiw there isn't a win situation. We all have our own version of new or used. I have been burnt, I am sure others here have as well. BUT, I try not to burn people if I can help it. Take loads of pics, but we are not talking prevention we are talking reaction.

It really is a tough call. Life happens and maybe this is sorted out for the buyer and maybe it is sorted out for the seller.

The buyer can always sell the post and collect some, even, or more money.

Good luck.

[Chris]

It's just my take, but I always guarantee satisfaction with anything I sell to someone. They haven't had the chance to have it in their hands, and as people here who I have sold stuff to will probably attest, I frequently check to make sure they have received the item and are satisfied before I cash their check. Whatever I make on a used piece of bike equipment is not worth someone feeling as if I stuck them with something that misrepresented to do so.

[markie]

Personally I think issues like this are the risk of buying something used or online. If the transaction was with a LBS things are easier to deal with, even then an issue like this might not get resolved to the customers satisfaction.

If I was the buyer I would not have contacted the seller over the issue.

[jmc22]

I agree there is no win win here, if the Buyer gets a refund the Seller is stuck with a seatpost that he has knowledge of it having a possible problem and if the Buyer doesn't get granted a refund, then the Buyer has a seatpost that he does not feel comfortable using.

In my opinion it comes down to what was advertised and if was described as it being a used seatpost and (key) the Seller had no prior knowledge of any issues with the seatpost then I hate to say it, but Buyer bewere...afterall it is the Sellers responsibility to disclose the condition of the item to the best of his knowledge but moreso the Buyer responsibility to ask all questions he may have and do the proper research on an item (new or used) PRIOR to making an offer that could be accepted.

I hope something can be worked out here, but this isn't the first time nor the last time something lik this will happen.

[dsteady]

I think he ought to know well enough that this thing is used and that's that. Tiny worn spots on the serrations of a seatpost clamp seem well within the bounds of normal wear and tear, to me.

It's worth noting that he begins his letter by making an appeal to your emotions by mentioning the family emergency. It makes me think that some part of him realizes that what he is asking of you is special consideration (i.e., laying down a context for why his situation should be treated differently from others).

On the other hand, (there always is an other hand), your post does seem dismissive; particularly the last paragraph which seems (maybe not your intention, but it could seem that way) aimed to make him feel stupid for even asking for a refund. If he did feel stupid then he most likely also felt humiliated.

Deferring the matter to Mr. Green is no solution. He has nothing to do with this transaction and dragging him into it accomplishes nothing.

It is the nature of used bike goods, particularly of a mechanical order, that we cannot always detect defects until we ride them.

I think you're within your bounds to refuse the refund. But I sympathize with his position as well. You'll have to decide if the money you got for seatpost is worth more or less than repairing this bridge.

dn'l

[jhcakilmer]

I would definitely give a satisfaction guaranteed, money back, no questions asked......but only before the buyer uses the item in question. If he uses it, and decided he doesn't like it, than why would the buyer take it back?

I guess it would also depend on the individual situation. So this isn't an absolute statement, but general thought. I've never had anyone complain about anything I've sold, so I guess if faced with the issue, I'm not 100% what would transpire.

[johnnymossville]

I'm tending to lean towards the person who bought the post being stuck with it and taking his lumps. When you buy stuff you are taking a calculated risk it's going to be ok. Sometimes things don't work out exactly as planned. Live and Learn. Especially since the buyer installed and used the product.

[vjp]

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=458917

[dnades]

It is a used bike part. One takes a chance with that description. Now if it had been NOS that is another issue entirely. It is up to you. Had you of used it and had the same problem would you have sent it back to Mr. Green or eaten it? You could always split the difference(refund half) and enshrine the post in drawer somewhere.......or paint it gold and use it as a trophy of some sort. :banana: Do something fun with it since it no longer functions as it was designed. I personally have bought a fair amount of used bike parts and have only gotten burned once. I ate it although it rankled a bit for awhile. It was just not worth the hassle.

[Lazy Bill]

The first pm reads like the buyer is holding you responsible for what he sees as Campagnolo's design flaw.

Caveat Emptor on used parts - the "clamps holding spots" are worn because its a used part.

[cmg]

sell the post on eBay, walk away, go on with your life. Don't take it personally, no one is trying to screw you.

[Dekonick]

if it requires using a microscope to see the clamp scratehes, wear... um... well... you get the picture.

I would take it back, and never do business with mr red again.

reputation is everything here...

buyer and seller beware.

word gets around...

[Dave B]

I'm posting this to see if I'm just thinking of things the wrong way. I've changed the names so that if someone wants to respond, they can, but their reputation won't be hurt if they don't.

Here's the overall picture, I sold a used seat post to Mr. Red. He is un-happy with it and wants a refund.

Here are the PM's:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Red
Hello Kervin,

Due to a family emergency this past weekend I never went on my century ride so I couldn't try the seatpost out till yesterday. I inspected the tiny serrations on the clamp area Prior to installing and I noticed about some of the clamps holding spots were worn down. I proceeded to install the seatpost anyways per Campagnolo's manual including their prescribed torque settings. On a 20 mile bike ride the saddle moved twice with a resounding crackle each time that literally scared me into shock. Titanium frames will resonate anything very loudly. Late last night I did some research on this issue with Campagnolo seatposts and amazingly I was not the only one that has had this problem. Apparently when Campy went from 1mm to 0.5mm it put the whole seatpost at risk of slipping over the tiny serrations. I could try to ride again but I suspect it will happen again. I hate to increase the torque setting beyond Campy's recommendation because they give strict warning not to exceed it for fear of catastrophic failure of the clamps. Let me know if I can return the seatpost for a refund or if you have any other suggestions allowing me to use this seatpost safely.

Mr. Red


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kervin
Mr Red,
I'm sorry you are having a problem with the seat post. I never used the post and I got it used from Mr. Green. Maybe he can help you with a reciept to get it taken care of by Campagnolo USA.
I actually have your check with me today. I do not feel that it is right for you to ask me to give you your money back. It's a bit hard to tell for post marks, but it seems that you got the post before you sent the check. You had the chance to look everything over before you rode it. If you feel that the post is different from how I told you it was, then that is one thing, but it seems that you are saying the design changes make it not as good as you hope, that's another.
When I buy used bike parts, I save some money and take some risk. If you do a search, you'll see I got a used Record carbon crank from Mr. Blue. I looked it over when I got it, rode it and something bad happened to it. The thought of asking him for my money back, never crossed my mind.

Kervin





Kervin,

You are absolutely correct about me sending out the check before I used the product. I did look it over but it never ocurred to me to use a magnifying glass to check out the serrations in the clamp area. I trusted they were okay. It wasn't until the saddle moved twice on a ride yesterday that I needed to check them out. If someone had this problem with me I would gladly give back the check and apologize that I sent out a defective product. But thats me.

Mr. Red



That is more dramatic then the young and the restless!

[oldguy00]

For an item that small, or even a larger item, I would have offered a refund. Thats just me, I try to take responsibility for stuff I sell. You sent him a defective part. Man up and take it back. You can always then sell it on ebay with an honest description of it.

[david]

i'm kinda with mr. red on this one.

if the post really is flawed, then it should be taken back.

if it's not, take it back anyway and keep it or sell it again to somebody who actually wants a used, but fully-functioning, post.

make friends, not enemies.

[SoCalSteve]

I would definitely give a satisfaction guaranteed, money back, no questions asked......but only before the buyer uses the item in question. If he uses it, and decided he doesn't like it, than why would the buyer take it back?
I guess it would also depend on the individual situation. So this isn't an absolute statement, but general thought. I've never had anyone complain about anything I've sold, so I guess if faced with the issue, I'm not 100% what would transpire.

Bingo! This is the CORRECT resolution. The buyer had the chance to check out the product before sending off the money. If he DID NOT do his due diligence, then it is the buyer who owns the post.

Just sayin',

Steve

[oldguy00]

Bingo! This is the CORRECT resolution. The buyer had the chance to check out the product before sending off the money. If he DID NOT do his due diligence, then it is the buyer who owns the post.

Just sayin',

Steve

One could argue that the flaw in the seatpost was not apparent until riding it, and maybe he was being nice by getting the cheque in the mail ASAP.
To be honest, if I were to buy a used seatpost, I wouldn't have thought to get out a magnifying glass to inspect it before riding it..............guess I know now! :D

[Steelhead]

He returns the seatpost to you, you return the check to him. No big deal - what is a used Campy seatpost worth anyway, it's not like anyone is going to have to sell the house over this.

[Blue Jays]

/\/\ I'm inclined towards Steelhead's suggestion above. No muss, no fuss.
Throw the seatpost on a clunker bicycle as long as it will hold a saddle securely.
Everyone remains whole and everyone remains friendly.

[67-59]

Bingo! This is the CORRECT resolution. The buyer had the chance to check out the product before sending off the money. If he DID NOT do his due diligence, then it is the buyer who owns the post.

Just sayin',

Steve

+1

If the buyer checks it out (as he should when buying a used part) and can't see a flaw, the part is his the moment he installs and uses it.

If the buyer doesn't check it out, but uses it anyway, the part is his the moment he installs and uses it.

It should only be the seller's problem if (1) the flaw was obvious, (2) the buyer takes prompt action (i.e., before using it), and (3) the seller didn't warn the buyer about this obvious flaw.

People here are acting like the seller of a used part should give an unconditional money back guarantee, even for flaws that he didn't know about. Harsh....

[scottcw2]

For an item that small, or even a larger item, I would have offered a refund. Thats just me, I try to take responsibility for stuff I sell. You sent him a defective part. Man up and take it back. You can always then sell it on ebay with an honest description of it.

The part was used, not defective. The seller did not manufacture the part, Campy did. The defect is the fault of Campy, not the seller.

Unless the part was misrepresented by the seller, no refund.

[Lifelover]

People here are acting like the seller of a used part should give an unconditional money back guarantee, even for flaws that he didn't know about. Harsh....


It's not that the seller did anything wrong.

I see it as a difference between a personal transaction and a buisness transaction.

From a buisness stand point, the seller would not be required to refund the money. Although most buisnesses would.

From a personal stand point, the seller should want to make the buyer happy. Of course if I had been the buyer I would have never said anything.

Both are being petty to some degree.

[oldguy00]

The part was used, not defective. The seller did not manufacture the part, Campy did. The defect is the fault of Campy, not the seller.

Unless the part was misrepresented by the seller, no refund.

I guess I see it as - the part doesn't work properly. The seller did not inform the buyer that it did not work properly. Whether the seller knew this is not really relevant.
If your bike shop sells you a bike, and it breaks on your first ride, is it OK for them to tell you 'they didn't know it was defective', and not give you a refund?

Come on, he sold a part that doesn't work. I can't believe he isn't offering the guy a refund.

I'm gonna go find all my semi-broken spare parts and sell them on the forum. As long as no one discovers they are broken until after I get the payment, I get to keep all the money.......... :rolleyes:

[stormyClouds]

While I love the spirit of honesty on the classifieds here, I think that a line has to be drawn somewhere on refunds.
In this case, when the buyer inspected it, noticed the wear, then installed and rode the post, I believe it is his.

"I inspected the tiny serrations on the clamp area Prior to installing and I noticed about some of the clamps holding spots were worn down. I proceeded to install the seatpost anyways per Campagnolo's manual including their prescribed torque settings. On a 20 mile bike ride the saddle moved twice with a resounding crackle each time that literally scared me into shock."

Otherwise, the seller is left with a post that has been damaged ("resounding crackle") by the buyer.
For all the seller knows, the the buyer might be 250 lbs. and the post was used on his cross bike on a rocky trail.
Also, the buyer can always toss it on ebay with an honest description and recover some costs.

Had he asked for a refund before riding it (and damaging it), then I would definitely agree with refunding the dough.

[Climb01742]

in your story, i wish you would have used mr pink and mr white, signed mr tarantino.

[CNY rider]

I think you should take a hacksaw and cut the post in half......... :p

[sc53]

I've sold some used bike stuff here and on eBay and bought and sold LOTS of used stereo equipment on Audiogon--and this issue comes up almost as frequently as Shimano vs. Campy/helmet vs. no helmet. I continue to be of the opinion that individuals selling their own used gear on the internet are not dealers or retailers and cannot be expected to be guaranteeing their merchandise and offering money back returns, unless they explicitly make this offer in their ad. If, as a buyer, you want a guarantee and the ability to return something if you don't like it--buy it from a STORE, whether online or bricks & mortar. But internet buyers want and get great deals on used stuff online. There is a tradeoff for the low price, however. As a buyer I assume that I am taking a risk should the item break or blow up shortly after I receive it. I have had that happen and had to contact the manufacturer for repairs. It's unfortunate but I got the item for less than half price and stuff happens sometimes. Even brand new stuff fails or quits working. Unless the item is damaged in shipping, then the risk of its not being all a buyer thought it was or should be is on the buyer. I just don't see why people selling stuff online are ever expected to act like retailers or commercial merchants. The price they are getting shows that they are not/cannot provide the same level of service as a "real" merchant. If this risk is unacceptable, DO NOT buy used goods of any kind online.
All that being said, since it's the Serotta forum, and I expect not much money changed hands, I would have returned the check just to avoid bad feelings with somebody I might meet up with someday at the Ramble, and then either listed the seatpost on eBay with a note mentioning the controversy with Campy's new design, or contacted Campy with a complaint about the seatpost and asking for a new one which I would then have sold on eBay as new!

[Blue Jays]

"...I would have returned the check just to avoid bad feelings with somebody I might meet up with someday at the Ramble..."That alone is worth a boatload of time and energy.

[Louis]

This is the primary reason I stay away from posts that use serrations to prevent pitch rotation.

Thomson all the way for me.

[Sandy]

I guess I see it as - the part doesn't work properly. The seller did not inform the buyer that it did not work properly. Whether the seller knew this is not really relevant.
If your bike shop sells you a bike, and it breaks on your first ride, is it OK for them to tell you 'they didn't know it was defective', and not give you a refund?

Come on, he sold a part that doesn't work. I can't believe he isn't offering the guy a refund.

I'm gonna go find all my semi-broken spare parts and sell them on the forum. As long as no one discovers they are broken until after I get the payment, I get to keep all the money.......... :rolleyes:

If you guarantee me that some of your semi-broken parts will make me faster then send them along and double your asking price. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Speedy Sandy

[Sandy]

I read each response on the thread and found it very refreshing to see the genuine but disparate ideas given. I was quite impressed with the candor, sincerity, and logic of the opposing views given. But somehow I believe you (and others) miss the essence of the what I think should occur in a situation as described via your communucations with Mr. Red.

1. We are talking about a used seat post. The dollar amount can't be that significant.

2. Mr. Red sent you a very respectful letter explaining precisely what difficulty he had with the item and why he wanted a refund.

3. It is really not important as to the legality of who is or who is not correct in this sale/purchase nor who really even has the stronger "moral arguement". Mr. Red was not satisfied and did not in any way act in a negligent matter relative to the item.

4. I would have wanted my purchaser to be satisfied and if he wasn't I would have simply had him send the item back, and fully refunded his money. What is the big deal? We are talking about a small amount of money, you could sell the item again, and it is not worth it to potentially jeopardize your reputation in any manner.

5. I would have said- "Sorry you were not satisfied. Please send me the seatpost back, I am refunding your money.

6. Too many vastly more important things to expend your energy and stress on than a seatpost.



:rolleyes: Seatpost Sandy :rolleyes:

[SoCalSteve]

I read each response on the thread and found it very refreshing to see the genuine but disparate ideas given. I was quite impressed with the candor, sincerity, and logic of the opposing views given. But somehow I believe you (and others) miss the essence of the what I think should occur in a situation as described via your communucations with Mr. Red.

1. We are talking about a used seat post. The dollar amount can't be that significant.

2. Mr. Red sent you a very respectful letter explaining precisely what difficulty he had with the item and why he wanted a refund.

3. It is really not important as to the legality of who is or who is not correct in this sale/purchase nor who really even has the stronger "moral arguement". Mr. Red was not satisfied and did not in any way act in a negligent matter relative to the item.

4. I would have wanted my purchaser to be satisfied and if he wasn't I would have simply had him send the item back, and fully refunded his money. What is the big deal? We are talking about a small amount of money, you could sell the item again, and it is not worth it to potentially jeopardize your reputation in any manner.

5. I would have said- "Sorry you were not satisfied. Please send me the seatpost back, I am refunding your money.
6. Too many vastly more important things to expend your energy and stress on than a seatpost.



:rolleyes: Seatpost Sandy :rolleyes:

I respectfully disagree with you.

As a seller of many used items, I am NOT Nordstroms. I cannot and will not take back a pair of shoes that have been used (even if they started out used).

Point being, he USED the item in question. Once you use the item, it is yours. You look it over, take it to a bike store, get a friends opinion...Fine, if you are not happy, send it back, money haappily refunded...

But, he went past the point of it being refunded.

Of course, my $.02 only, your opinions may vary GREATLY.

Steve

[Sandy]

I respectfully disagree with you.

As a seller of many used items, I am NOT Nordstroms. I cannot and will not take back a pair of shoes that have been used (even if they started out used).

Point being, he USED the item in question. Once you use the item, it is yours. You look it over, take it to a bike store, get a friends opinion...Fine, if you are not happy, send it back, money haappily refunded...

But, he went past the point of it being refunded.

Of course, my $.02 only, your opinions may vary GREATLY.

Steve


You mention shoes. Suppose you sell someone a pair of used bicycle shoes- say a $200 pair for $ 85. The purchaser puts the shoes on and takes two pedal revolutions and the soles of both shoes fall off. You would take the position that he (or she) used the shoes and hence it is too late? Buyer beware, plan and simple?

How can a purchaser of a bicyle part really know if it is useable until he uses it? Is there not an inherenet uderstanding that the part, new or used, will have some reasonable degree of usability?

Going one step further- Suppose I buy a new Shimano chain from you and the chain fails as soon as I use it, does that mean that it is my problem, or I should go talk to Shimano, from who I did not purchase the chain?


Sandy

[Dave B]

I read each response on the thread and found it very refreshing to see the genuine but disparate ideas given. I was quite impressed with the candor, sincerity, and logic of the opposing views given. But somehow I believe you (and others) miss the essence of the what I think should occur in a situation as described via your communucations with Mr. Red.

1. We are talking about a used seat post. The dollar amount can't be that significant.

2. Mr. Red sent you a very respectful letter explaining precisely what difficulty he had with the item and why he wanted a refund.

3. It is really not important as to the legality of who is or who is not correct in this sale/purchase nor who really even has the stronger "moral arguement". Mr. Red was not satisfied and did not in any way act in a negligent matter relative to the item.

4. I would have wanted my purchaser to be satisfied and if he wasn't I would have simply had him send the item back, and fully refunded his money. What is the big deal? We are talking about a small amount of money, you could sell the item again, and it is not worth it to potentially jeopardize your reputation in any manner.

5. I would have said- "Sorry you were not satisfied. Please send me the seatpost back, I am refunding your money.

6. Too many vastly more important things to expend your energy and stress on than a seatpost.



:rolleyes: Seatpost Sandy :rolleyes:



See this speaks to why you are who you are. I think so many of us here do things a certain way. Our own way.

Sandy your way is how I wish I could be. I do not know how you can be so giving. I may not agree totally with the particular opinion, but I hope some day with hard effin work I can be half the man you are. I want my daughter to be able to see that in me.

Seriously, you are a rare bird. Cheers

Prez

[SoCalSteve]

You mention shoes. Suppose you sell someone a pair of used bicycle shoes- say a $200 pair for $ 85. The purchaser puts the shoes on and takes two pedal revolutions and the soles of both shoes fall off. You would take the position that he (or she) used the shoes and hence it is too late? Buyer beware, plan and simple?

How can a purchaser of a bicyle part really know if it is useable until he uses it? Is there not an inherenet uderstanding that the part, new or used, will have some reasonable degree of usability?

Going one step further- Suppose I buy a new Shimano chain from you and the chain fails as soon as I use it, does that mean that it is my problem, or I should go talk to Shimano, from who I did not purchase the chain?


Sandy

Come on, Sandy, you know what I mean...You are taking it to extremes...

As for knowing if it is usable or not, take the used bike part to someone who is MORE knowledgable than you and have them inspect it.

As for the the Shimano chain, if installed correctly, they will last a few thousand miles if you maintain them.

Just sayin'

Steve

[Lazy Bill]

--- Suppose I buy a new Shimano chain from you and the chain fails as soon as I use it, does that mean that it is my problem, or I should go talk to Shimano, from who I did not purchase the chain?


Sandy
If I sold you what I KNEW to be a new chain and it failed as soon as you used it, I would KNOW you installed it incorrectly.
Why would you buy a new chain from an individual anyway? To save $5.00?

Check the original post - the buyer learned after he installed that there was info on the web about an issue with the product design - why isn't he responsible for doing some research upfront? His beef is w/ Campy, I think.

[Frankwurst]

Caveat Emptor. Just the same I'd probably take it back because the amount of money involved isn't worth all the bad press one might recieve and I'm getting to old to argue over a couple of dollars. On the other hand I'd never ask for a refund if I was the buyer. I'd put it on eBay and move on. :beer:

[soulspinner]

Fer cryin in the lake, it doesnt work properly, exchange the part 4 the check and be done with it... :crap:

[oldguy00]

Kervin,

I would say, at very least, I, and probably -some- others, would sure hesitate before buying an item from you now...
IMHO, 'Mr. Red' could not tell that the post was truly defective until he tried it.
He saw that there was something possibly wrong with it, and he tried it thinking it might work OK. It didn't. You sent him a post that doesn't work. Who cares if he used it once or not.....the post doesn't work. Holy sh*t, how complicated can this matter be?? How can you be so cheap as to feel you need to keep someone's $50 (or whatever it may be) for a crap item you sold them?

Actually, most of the above comments are really aimed at SoCal... :)
Seriously, I'm kind of surprised the OP hasn't replied to any of the comments...

[SoCalSteve]

Kervin,

I would say, at very least, I, and probably -some- others, would sure hesitate before buying an item from you now...
IMHO, 'Mr. Red' could not tell that the post was truly defective until he tried it.
He saw that there was something possibly wrong with it, and he tried it thinking it might work OK. It didn't. You sent him a post that doesn't work. Who cares if he used it once or not.....the post doesn't work. Holy sh*t, how complicated can this matter be?? How can you be so cheap as to feel you need to keep someone's $50 (or whatever it may be) for a crap item you sold them?

Actually, most of the above comments are really aimed at SoCal... :)
Seriously, I'm kind of surprised the OP hasn't replied to any of the comments...

People arent GETTING it...

nuff said, I'm done.

Steve

[Kervin]

Thanks for all the answers. Usually, I would just say send it back, I'd send the check back and be done. when I buy stuff, I'm really easy going that way to. I think what rubbed me the wrong way was Mr. Black not sending out the check until after he got the post. Next it was the part about the seat slipping twice. After the first time, I would have tighten it.

I posted this to see what peoples opinions. From the replies, people are on both sides. The person I got the post from has offered to help also (thank you). At the start, I thought I was totally in the right, but I can see the other side too.

The resolution has been that Mr. Black stopped payment on the check which cost him $15 and is sending me back the post.

[scottcw2]

I would say, at very least, I, and probably -some- others, would sure hesitate before buying an item from you now...

I wouldn't hesitate in the least. But then, wacky me, I would not ask for a refund unless the item was misrepresented (how do you misrepresent "used") and even then not if I had installed and used it and especially if there was information on the web that I had chosen not to research prior to purchase.

But that's just me... :rolleyes:

[67-59]

So several people are saying: "It isn't worth the hassle, Mr. Seller. Just refund the money." Well if it isn't worth the hassle, why aren't these same people saying "It isn't worth the hassle of asking for a refund, Mr. Buyer. Just count it as a lesson learned." Seems like if if it isn't worth the hassle, the loss should fall to the person who tried to turn it into a hassle in the first place.

It was a USED part. I could see MAYBE treating this differently if it was a new part.

The buyer admitted it looked suspicious when he got it. I could see MAYBE treating this differently if he had no way of knowing something was amiss.

Then the buyer used it. I could see MAYBE treating this differently if the buyer asked for a refund before he used it, and quite possibly made any damage worse.

I just don't see this one as even being close. And for those who say "it isn't worth the hassle," I agree. But I see Mr. Buyer as the one who is trying to turn it into a hassle.

[TomP]

Hi all,

I'm Mr. Green. I appreciate everyone's comments.

A couple of things. I know for a fact the post was not defective. I got it from a friend at a shop. It was a new Record post that had been mounted on a shop bike. It was removed when the customer wanted a different one.

When the person who bought it from Kervin had a problem, Kervin e-mailed me and we discussed the situation. After we talked, Kervin and I decided that I would e-mail Mr. Red and since it started with me I would refund his money. Kervin was great. :beer: He even offered me a cool Saab jersey for getting involved. :banana:

Kervin then e-mailed the person and told him the plan. Unfortunately that person took the issue into his own hands, apparently not trusting us, and cancelled the check (as Kervin said). Now, that person has the post and his money.

I really believe Kervin was trying to do the right and honorable thing. He and I tried to work it out amicably. Our intentions were good. Unfortunately, it just turned into a bad situation.

[Lifelover]

Hi all,

I'm Mr. Green. I appreciate everyone's comments.

A couple of things. I know for a fact the post was not defective. I got it from a friend at a shop. It was a new Record post that had been mounted on a shop bike. It was removed when the customer wanted a different one.

When the person who bought it from Kervin had a problem, Kervin e-mailed me and we discussed the situation. After we talked, Kervin and I decided that I would e-mail Mr. Red and since it started with me I would refund his money. Kervin was great. :beer: He even offered me a cool Saab jersey for getting involved. :banana:

Kervin then e-mailed the person and told him the plan. Unfortunately that person took the issue into his own hands, apparently not trusting us, and cancelled the check (as Kervin said). Now, that person has the post and his money.

I really believe Kervin was trying to do the right and honorable thing. He and I tried to work it out amicably. Our intentions were good. Unfortunately, it just turned into a bad situation.


After all is said and done, you are the only one of the three I would choose to deal with in the future.

I don't even understand how you got involved?!

[jimcav]

ksyrium tubulars, and they were used, not abused, supersize pics, etc. the seller got them, rode them, took the front hub apart, re-trued them, etc--then wanted his money back because he could not make the "click" sound go away. I had had a shop glue on a new tire prior to selling them, and i know that some mavic rims click, and that if you have a bad spot of glue you get a click type sound--but i essentiually told the guy i had no need for shimano wheels, and that since he had admittedly done at least 2 major things to the wheels i was not taking them back. long and short is he paid with paypal and filed a claim, and i ended up refunding part of his money, got a front wheel back i had no use for, took it to the same shop to have them re-true it and reglue the tire, sold it on ebay to someone who was very pleased with it.

my view is if you go out and USE the item, then you own it unless there is really something grossly wrong that differs considerably from what was advertised.

I've had several seatposts slip--mostly mountain biking with the hits the saddle takes (kooka was the worst with their serrations on the clamp), most were because i did not tighten the clamp enough in the FIRST place. Anyway, i tightened the crap out of the posts and used them no problem.

[Satellite]

I haven't read all the post, maybe this has been addressed if so sorry.

Give the guy back his money, but make him eat the shipping cost both ways. Industry standards your NOT being the bad guy here. Perhaps the shipping charges cost more than the refund is worth. Then it is the buyers decision weather the refund is worth the cost.

Satellite

[chuckroast]

Given Tom P's post above, I think the onus is now on Mr. Red to do the right thing. He has the post and the money now so he seems to have the moral obligation to get right with the other parties.

[Kervin]

Mr Red is sending the post back to me.

[93legendti]

These things are best solved by the parties. The thing I try to do is make all issues and terms clear before the sale, so as to avoid problems and dissapointments.

[PacNW2Ford]

I don't know who is right in the original case, although I am leaning toward the seller. What I do know is there are now two unhappy people because of some emotional dedication to an imaginary principle. I have had success and fun selling items on the board. I usually hold the check until I am sure the buyer is happy with item and have yet to have a dispute. Each individual has to decide what their happiness is worth. Some people are happy always being "right".

I find it telling that some of those on this board who take the hard line with the buyer are also the ones that post the most about sellers/dealers that treat them poorly. I guess there's a certain consistency there.

[thejen12]

If I were the buyer, and, after discovering the problem I looked on the internet and found out that this problem was not uncommon, then I'd beat myself up for buying a used product with a known history of problems and consider it a lesson learned.

In fact, something very similar happened to me and I learned my lesson from it, I didn't ask for a refund. I hadn't done adequate homework before buying. My bad. The seller sent me exactly what I had asked for, a well used product at a well discounted cost. In my opinion, the buyer always takes a risk on that type of transaction - the low price is the compensation for assuming the risk.

Jenn