TdFL 2005

[dirtdigger88]

So, should we ask Serotta to sponsor the 2005 tour? Douglas, what do you think?

Jason

[Bruce K]

Bad dates for some of us:

August 5-7 Pan-Mass Challenge (Dana Farber Cancer Institute / Jimmy Fund)
August 19-21 Sunflower Revoultion (Davis Phinney Foundation)

Hopefully I will get to make it out there this coming summer.

BK

[dbrk]

I should be delighted to host another weekend of riding in the Finger Lakes in the summer of '05. I remind folks that this was Mavic's idea: he invited everyone to my house two summers back! I could not be happier that he did. Russ, coming frest from the Factory, brought a gift from Ben and Co this last summer: Serotta very, very generously donated a few cases of beer for our enjoyment (and Spinner's good folks at Great Lakes brewery too, as I recall). I am disinclined to ask for any further "sponsorship" since my only cost is that Saturday night dinner and, well, that's no big deal. What's having 30 or so of your best cycling buddies over for curry and brews after a long day's ride?

More important than any financial support from Serotta is our acknowledgement of their generous spirit and the cause (i.e., this Forum) for our friendships---many of which I have come to regard most warmly. The TdFL has too been the source of friendships among participants and, again, because of Serotta. This coming year at least one luminary in bike building has agreed to come (in principle, depending on the dates) and Dave Kirk has said he will join us again. If any Serotta folks, including Ben of course!!! would like to join us, well, that would add special merriment. BBDave can bring his new skull (I think that's what those boats are called...)...All will be welcome and invited once we settle the details.

For those unfamiliar the Tour de Finger Lakes is an informal gathering of Serotta Forum participants (all bikes welcome). We ride in my neighborhood: the rolling hills and largely empty roads of the Finger Lakes of western NY, some of the most beautiful cycling in America (if I may say so). Folks usually stay in Canandaigua, NY and meet at my house in nearby Bristol for the rides. It is an occasion of luminaries: Russ, KeithA, Thom Byrnes, Mavic, Spinner, MaryAnn, dirtdigger (go cards!), Dr. Cotcamp, and many others, the list too long, all such interesting and fine folks. We hope others will make it this year.

We shall try to find a good weekend, one that accommodates as many folks as is possible. And I shall again offer, as far as possible, a bicycle to those who come from afar and need one. (KeithA has dibs on the white/blue Sachs...). Anyway, this is some months off but thanks to palDirt for the thought. The BEEman and all his worthy drones await you, as does my indulgent wife Aimee and Mira the Wonder Silken Windhound...See you all in August sometimes, tba.

dbrk

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . inviting Ben to the next one would be great, regardless of whether Serotta "sponsors" the event. Hell, invite Dario Pegoretti, too! Can you imagine a gathering with Dave Kirk, Ben, e-richie, AND Dario?

I know the Finger Lakes MS ride was the third weekend in August this year and the local MS ride here was the weekend after July 4, so those would not be real good for me.

BBDave

[Climb01742]

i think there are cyclists and organizations that need ben's generous financial support more than we do. :beer:

[dirtdigger88]

My idea was of the "tounge in cheek" varity. I only posted it because of Alyson's post about Serotta accepting apps. for sponsorship. I am at my desk, its raining, the Cards are playing like ****, and I am bored. ;)

Jason

[Climb01742]

jason, tonight it's only gonna get worse...sorry, man, but it's gonna be sox in 4...ps...how do you think jeff stu-pan feels today? :crap:

[Tom Byrnes]

TDFLers - How about a TDFL rugby-style shirt, sweatshirt, polo shirt, etc. to be sold to TDFL participants (and others) with the net profits being donated to the Davis Phinney Foundation. Maybe Serotta can assist us in getting the shirts made at a reasonable price so that the collective contribution from the group is greater than what it would be without Serotta's assistance.

I look forward to seeing everyone again in August.

:) :) :)
:beer: :beer: :beer:

Tom

[Keith A]

I too am already looking forward to the '05 TdFL. I must say that riding in Douglas's backyard has been one of the highlights in my cycling career. To be able to ride in almost any direction with relatively few cars and good roads is such a treat for those of us whose countryside is quickly disappearing.

To top off the riding conditions is the most gracious of hosts and the many fun and interesting folks that participate on this forum.

BTW, we are still planning on doing a retreat from winter ride in Clermont FL early in 2005. Although we don't have a host that is local to this prime riding area, I'm sure we can figure out something so that we can have a chance to spend some time together off the bikes as well. This is also a good time to take in some of the amusement parks if you and your family are so inclined. If anyone would like to propose a date, we can start making some plans.

[Blastinbob]

I'm good go for next year, where do I sign up ? :D Bringing the SO along for the trip, but no bike riding for her, just relaxing by the lake. :cool: She's already wanting to make hotel reservations,( :no: no patience ) so the sooner a date is nailed down the better. I'm easy to please but she wants to stay on the lake.

Douglas, did you sell all your small bikes ?

[M_A_Martin]

This year didn't we talk about getting a wool jersey done but we were too close to the event?

Perhaps if we start digging around now we can be all set in time for the next TDFL?

I think a simple nice wool jersey, with TDFL 2005 on it, pre-ordered, pre-paid, with an amount tacked on to go to a charity like the Davis Phinney foundation would be a reasonable thing? What sort of lead time do we need for something like that? (as in, how soon before the event do they have to have the money for the jerseys to be ready for the event?)

And how many people would be interested in such a thing? Me for one...

[Russ]

I hate to sound like the devil's advocate on this one, but I have begun to think that "sponsorship" in America is a synonym of "censorship".

One reason I refuse to participate in all these organized events and rides such as The Owner's Weekend, Ride for the Roses, The Ride to Save the Whales, you name it... is because all the rules one must follow when you do them.

I like the TdFL for what it is: an informal gathering! I would hate to have any company provide some "support" for our gathering and then have one of their reps show up with an entry form:

"Official TdFL 2005 Rules"
1) Helmets must be worn at all times...
2) Single file riding must be observed on roads with no shoulder...
3) blah, blah this....
4) blah, blah that....
You must abide to the above rules or your entry will not be vaild

I hope you understand my example.... However one aspect I am quite open to is the notion of inviting industry experts to our gathering. Last August was a memorable one and I think we should continue to do so. But, I am willing to put some of my own money to bring some of these people, rather than have a corporation spoil the TdFL.

One last thing, I believe that as we begin to think about dates so far in advance, we should also begin to seriously talk about next year's rides and pace.... I hate to see some of you get upset because the rides turn into something they are not supposed to be.

With Sculls (althought I think BBDave uses a "skull", ask dbrk :)), Serottas, or whatever human propelled vehicle you bring, I surely hope to see you all again next year!

Cheers!

[Russ]

BTW, we are still planning on doing a retreat from winter ride in Clermont FL early in 2005....If anyone would like to propose a date, we can start making some plans.

Keith,

I belive davep suggested MLK's weekend, Jan. 14-17, 2005. I think this will be a good date. But let's be open to further suggestions....

Regards!

[dbrk]

I hate to sound like the devil's advocate on this one, but I have begun to think that "sponsorship" in America is a synoym of "censorship".

One reason I refuse to participate in all these organized events and rides such as The Owner's Weekend, Ride for the Roses, The Ride to Save the Whales, you name it... is because all the rules one must follow when you do them.

I like the TdFL for what it is: an informal gathering! I would hate to have any company provide some "support" for our gathering and then have one of their reps show up with an entry form:

"Official TdFL 2005 Rules"
1) Helmets must be worn at all times...
2) Single file riding must be observed on roads with no shoulder...
3) blah, blah this....
4) blah, blah that....
You must abide to the above rules or your entry will not be vaild

One last thing, I believe that as we begin to think about dates so far in advance, we should also begin to seriously talk about next year's rides and pace.... I hate to see some of you get upset because the rides turn into something they are not supposed to be.

Cheers!

Three cheers for Russ. I agree on all counts. So long as I have a role in hosting our TdFL will remain informal and the "official" rules will remain the same gentleperson's agreements as they have been these last two years.

But Russ raises a very important issue, even a serious one. This past year folks had different ideas of fun riding and despite my many, many admonishments, the pace often left folks behind and there was simply not enough awareness on the part of faster riders to sit up, wait, or stop for a few minutes when they were too far ahead. Two of the very fastest riders (okay, I will name names...Russ and Dr. Cotcamp...) were indeed very, very good at not "riding away" when they both could have easily done so.

The TdFL will be _social_ rides in '05---at least if I have any say in the matter. We'll need to come up with some very clear notions about waiting or sitting up, okay? I really want to try to keep people as together as possible. Honestly, I feel like some folks just had too much fun riding fast. Far be it from me to be a party pooper but you just don't drop your friends. End of issue, as far as I am concerned. I welcome all ideas and input but I feel strongly about keeping the group as together as possible and that _this_ notion must govern our actual behaviors. Please?

dbrk

[shinomaster]

That I would go next year! And I do so look forward to going. The sooner we can plan dates the better. I need to plan vacations as soon as possible!


I love New York In June....

[Blastinbob]

Please, no June !
I'll be on a big boat in Shino's hood, cruising the inside passage.

[hybridbellbaske]

Forget 05- I can't make it- but be very afraid- I will move heaven and earth to be in the northern hemisphere in 2006. (assuming that we are all still around). My partner's parents are having their 50th wedding anniversary in England in September 06- so the scheming has begun!

[William]

I would like to join in this time around if ya'll will have me. All I need is a blanket, a ditch, and a mail box to chain my bike to and I'm set. :rolleyes:

NE-way, as soon as dates are set, I'll lock it in my calender.

William :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . are making way too much hay out of this. “Sponsorship” can mean many things. If Serotta is hosting their open house out of their facility and advertising under their name, that is indeed “sponsorship”--and it entails legal liability that gives Serotta a perfect right to demand the use of helmets, etc.

But that is far different from donating some water bottles and a few cases of beer--which could ALSO be construed as “sponsorship.” Many, many amateur racers have “sponsorship” that amounts to the water bottles without the beer and a name embroidered on their jersey.

That being said, Russ raises a good point about striking a balance between organized activites and freedom of expression and behavior. If I am attending a ride, choose to ride without a helmet, and end up falling on my head, I hope I have the faculties left to keep to my present opinion--namely that I made the decision to ride without one and I must be responsible for that decision.

As for the ride pace, if by chance I am being categorized as one who delighted in going off the front, well, then I plead guilty. But I also feel that everyone I saw who DID go off the front also sat up and waited when we got to a questionable corner or when asked to from behind by Doug or others. My sincerest apologies to anyone who felt I was showboating.

I think the idea of having several different rides next year is a VERY good one. Give people a choice, give them maps, and then if the fast folks want to go off on their own without Doug’s local knowledge along for the ride, then that’s fine. Just make sure it’s understood by everyone on each ride what the pace is and what the rules for that PARTICULAR ride are. I for one would just not be having the good time that dbrk obviously wants us all to have if I don’t have the chance to go out on at least one “fast” ride with others of similar likes an ability.

I think with just a TINY bit more organization--which does not equal too many rules or censorship--everyone can have a good time and everyone can feel their riding needs/wants are being indulged.

BBDave

[Keith A]

I would also suspect that at times I would fall into the "pushing the pace" catagory (although I did plenty of lagging behind as well). But I agree with BBDave, that the front runners always stopped and waited -- except on the occasions when the end of the ride was only a few miles away and then no one could stay on Russ's wheel!

I also concur with BBDave, that part of the fun in cycling for me is pushing myself and being challenged by others to ride at my limit. I'm also happy to ride along with the group and socialize, but I would also request that there be an outlet for those that want to ride hard as a group. Even with the fast group, I would suggest that there are points in the ride where we regroup if some have ridden ahead -- as it often happens on some of the longer climbs.

I too want to apologize to anyone that my actions caused him/her any consternation.


Russ -- Then let's starting making plans for the yet-to-be-named event in Clermont.

[M_A_Martin]

Well, this year I think the rides went off at what...9am?

A simple remedy is to provide maps for 30-40 mile rides leaving at 6 or 7 am.
The people who need to get competitive can get together and go out early to beat each other up on the hills, then join the rest of us for the group ride at 9 to be sociable. As long as they can throttle back, it works.

If you can't manage get your fast self up early enough to go out with the fast group, then you just need to chill until after the group ride and get some people together for a fast ride *after* the group ride.

How hard is that?

[Andreu]

stagger the starts of the groups...which I see happening more often on the Sunday club rides due to the competitive nature of the fast guys.

[Birch Hill]

I have been 'lurking' on the boards for a while now and am getting a 'feel' for you folks and like it here.

Didin't contribute to the cycling/spouse thread but suffice it to say I'm getting married in 23 days to a fellow cyclist.

So, depending on the date, the first 2 weekends in August are no good, my husband (classic Pinarello) and my son (age 11 rides a Fondriest) will come as well.


BURCH

[mavic1010]

Though I appreciate everyone's suggestions, the idea of having multiple group rides defeats the purpose of the TdFL. To me the TdFL was a ride for a bunch of serotta owners regardless of ability to gather in a place where cars are more rare than dead animals on the side of the road, to have fun, talk about bikes, joke about this and that. Granted the ride has gathered a varied level of riders which has prompted the fast taking off, the slow lagging behind..etc..etc...

I enjoyed my time talking with my fellow Michigan riders in the back, cuz that's what the purpose was...to meet and enjoy each other's company.

This is not to say that this ride should become a 12-13 mph group ride.

I believe everyone should be prepared to be able to comfortably do a double paceline with all the skills necessary to not crash during this at a reasonable 20 mph pace. Now most of you know that a 20 mph paceline is really not that difficult (unless of course you fall off the paceline).

To offer maps, to go off into different directions, well to me just equates to a club ride that we can all do in our own respective states. TdFL isn't a training camp, it's a social camp. Just be prepared to ride at a decent pace for longer distances.

[Spinner]

hypnos, bbdave and davep enjoying Great Lakes Dortmunder

[Spinner]

obviously I thought that I was attaching a photo of the "2004" TdFL Beermen. someone, anyone send me a private e-mail and tell me how it's done.

[Keith A]

Mavic -- I understand your point and agree for the most part. However, at least for me, I don't have the opportunity to ride in such an awesome area as dbrk's back yard. Most of my rides consist of flat ground with plenty of traffic. So to have these great hills and empty roads all around and not be able to open up the trottle a little is somewhat disappointing.

It's like giving you the opportunity to drive your 911 on the Authbahn and say, now don't go over 60kph.

I do think that the main ride on Saturday should be as Mavic & dbrk have stated. For this ride, the option to put in more miles at the end was a good plan, however it was rained out this year.

There were a number of us that arrived early this past year and maybe we could use these days to "go fast" for those that are interested.

[mavic1010]

KeithA:

I think for those that want to speed down the autobahn, they should come a couple of days early and knock themselves out. I'm planning on arriving into Rochester on Wed do some more riding. 3 days was just too much of a tease for me. I believe however that the Friday/Sat/Sun rides should be more civilized. And if riders want to open the throttle after the rides, they are more than welcome too. But to me there is nothing more pleasant than cruising in a paceline at a steady pace for 75 miles....

In addition, what makes you think riding in the fast group is gonna be that much more fun....Russ gets a flat every 2 miles anyways...=)

[dirtdigger88]

I thinks Sir Douglas has the final say as to how the ride are, after all, despite what he says it IS his party. I do like Keith's idea of going hard during the few days before the official gathering. My biggest concern is that we ruin such a great thing as the TdFL by arguing over format. I had one of the best trips of my cycling life, let's keep it going for years to come. I as sorry for starting this thread at this point, dbrk, please accept my apploigies. I was daydreaming of bike riding and was having fond memories of NY in August.

Thanks again, Douglas

Jason

[Keith A]

Hey DirtDigger -- I don't think some friendly discussion about the format has (or would) detracted from the enjoyment that I had (and hope to have) at the TdFL. I will certainly respect dbrk's requests for this event. However, if I was hosting an event such as this, I would want to know and understand the desires and expectations of those that will be participating.

P.S. Everytime I see your alias, I think of the movie Holes.

[Tom Byrnes]

I think that the three TDFL rides (Friday, Saturday and Sunday) that I rode were all just fine. At times, the group got a bit strung out, but that is to be expected, especially with the climbs. I thought that the obviously faster riders did ride at a slower-than-normal pace for the others even if at times they sprinted ahead for a bit.

I agree with dbrk and Mavic regarding the primary purpose of the TDFL. I think everyone else does, also. I felt that everyone did socialize quite a bit while riding, especially those of us who were returning for our second TDFL since we already knew one another. Although at times our group got strung out or a few riders went off on their own, I personally never felt that such riding hurt or dampened the very social feeling of the TDFL rides. (That happens with Blastin Bob and Mavic every time we climb Turnbull Canyon in So Cal. Bob gracefully pulls away from us on the long ascent.)

I think most of us will agree with Keith A's statement that it is such a joy to be able to ride in the Finger Lakes area as compared to our respective local riding areas that it is hard to not want to open it up at times. And, there is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, as long as there are the periodic regroupings. I never feel slighted if a fellow rider pulls away because he or she wants to ride at a faster pace. And, on those rare occasions where I decide to ride at a faster pace than others, it certainly is not done with any feelings other than the pure joy of wanting to ride fast for a bit.

Just as we want to keep the TDFL rules at a minimum, I also feel that we should not decide how fast everyone must always ride. I think we all travel to the TDFL primarily for the fine company and friendship, and secondarily for the wonderful cycling. We all know that the rides are group rides and not races. As long as the friendship and camaraderie remain paramount on the rides, does it really bother anyone if some riders want to speed off the front for a bit at various times?

[M_A_Martin]

So...

About those wool jerseys?

(Its gonna be a long long winter if we keep this up so lets get back to what might be the most pressing issue...)

[dirtdigger88]

Wool is cool, I would be in for one. There, all of life's problems- solved.

Jason

[OldDog]

I missed tdlf 04 due to my daughter getting married but I would love to join in in '05. I've cycled the mid and eastern lakes in the past and can attest it is some of the best riding I have ever done.

Wool tdlf 05 jerseys would be a hoot and I would sign up for one.

Given the time span from now 'till next August, I bet this thread becomes the longest one to date. How about we get together some sort of pool, guess the number of posts by a certin cut off date, with the winner, or top three, winning a prize?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . discussion can help more than it might hurt.

Within the time available over a two day weekend, everyone should be able to have a good ride consistent with their abilities at some point. Have two rides--a fast one in the am, then a slow recovery ride in the pm for socializing. Or designate the first ten miles as slow social time, then let the fast guys take off. I'm sure Doug has a friend or two who can hammer along with us and provide local route knowledge.

The important thing to me is to know what is expected before the ride actually starts and to have some recognition of the differing needs of different riders groups. I would not, however, schedule the fast rides for only on Friday, because this is not fair to the significant and expected number of people who have job commitments that simply do not allow them to arrive early.

BBDave

PS . . . Mavic . . . Russ gets a flat precisely every 1.8672 miles. I measured.--bbd

[dbrk]

I am happy to see the interest expressed by my friends and those who are interested in joining us for another TdFL in '05. So first a vote of thanks to all who have joined this conversation or are expressing their interests and ideas. Everyone's input is most welcome.

I am inclined to agree with Mary Ann's suggestion that "fast rides" or perhaps we can call them "hot paced" rides be done before or after the whole group rides. Those whole groups rides I take to be social and I would not like to split the group nor form other groups. For those who need, like, or want a fast ride then we can arrange either before or after knock-yerselves-out goes. During the whole group rides folks really must be more aware of sitting up or waiting for a re-group. Perhaps my memory is less generous than Thom's (it may be by pure disposition), but I think we need to do a _better_ job keeping the whole group ever-so-slightly-MORE-whole during those rides. As for hot pacers, I can arrange a two hours earlier start that will suffice to put you on the by and large at the same time (or arrange an apres version of the same thing).

Wool jerseys are easy to get but they are wretchedly expensive. This past summer I arranged for four Ibex wool jerseys to be embroidered with Mariposa Cycles. These were really just a gift to Mike Barry. The cost was about $150 each. Of course, people seem willing to spend silly amounts on carbon bits that might have even less longevity but that is another matter. It can be done but it cannot be done cheaply at all: even in volume and with considerable prior attention we could not get them for less than $100 said and done, in your hands. Other garments are considerably cheaper. As some may know, I help out Steve Hampsten with schwag and have a really wonderful connection but nothing really good comes cheap. We do ride Serottas, goodpeople, so that should be clear enough.

dbrk

[Russ]

With all this talk about: "Russ was doing this, and Russ going fast...." I am not going to the TdFL next year.... :eek:
Also, that's it with using the same freaking 20mm tires that cost me so many flats! No more super skinny tires... :p :p

BTW, Dave, I didn't flat in Albany!!! So, this pretty much proves my conspirancy theory about the Finger Lakes.... Some of you wanted to slow me down... so you put something on my tires.... didn't you? :cool: :cool:

OK, with all joking aside, I'd like to yell more comments, now that I've read more of your opinions:

1) I think, as dirtdigger says, DBRK should have the final word on how the rides would go. After all, he is the (main) host, no?
2) I have actually liked DBRK's idea of doing the rides as a group and then telling the fast guys where to do an extra 20-30 miles at whatever pace... It worked great in 2003. In 2004 we had rain, so the whole group disintegrated at the end of the ride... However, I don't see why the original plan of 2003 wouldn't work on the Fri/Sat rides. I never do the Sunday ride, anyway, but I think this one should be a recovery ride...
3) The issue of sponsorship is simple... I would, and I hope DBRK and others, would welcome schwag, water bottles, beer or what have you from anyone or any company. But I would prefer not to have strings attached to the gifts... I hope you understand what I mean.
4) I mentioned that I have some connections with Santini in Europe. I will be gald to see what they would offer us. But I am not certain I would like to pay $150.00 for a wool jersey I would rarely use (I live in Florida, remember!!). A wool jacket, perhaps... But a wind proof vest or something of that sort sounds more attractive to me.

As this year, I plan to arrive early next year... early enough to ride with smaller groups or in different places other than the Finger Lakes (Albany, Clinton, etc.). Sooo, BBDave, Tom, Onno and Todd get ready for some early harassment!

Cheers!!!

[M_A_Martin]

Ooooo a wool trainer rather than a jersey?

Russ, you were such a gentleman to have one of your flats at the same place I did so I didn't feel so alone. How many guys would do that for a complete stranger? !!! :p

[Keith A]

Hey Russ & others,

I actually was thinking that the extra "challenging" miles could be done before the main group rides. This way we would be all tuckered out and be happy to just sit and spin with the group. Something to think about….

[vaxn8r]

What is schwag? :confused:

[alembical]

2 meanings I am aware of, but in this instance, I think it means the stuff that is handed out or given away (waterbottles, socks, etc....)

Alembical

[oracle]

you are correct, sir. a still somewhat obscure slang word whose origins are to me mysterious, but likely an industry term within the 'schwag (1) schmoking (2)schnowboarder' camp when referring to free goodies as above described by alembical.
etymology unclear at best.


(1) a term used to refer to the sub-grade version of the
plant product known to some as 'marijuhana'.

(2) i'm not sure why i actually know this.

oracle

[Russ]

What is schwag? :confused:

SCHWAG: one of the oldest advertising shticks on Earth - logo-stamped freebies, aka promotional products, tchotchkes, swag, or, if you prefer the faux-Yiddish derivative, schwag.

At the Finger Lakes, that was all the surplus clothing from my local club, which we handed out to the marvelous crowd that showed up... ;)

Well, I surely hope this is the schwag we are talking about as I did not hand out any of the kind that Oracle mentions on his #1 definition :eek:

[Keith A]

From the UrbanDictionary.com...

1. schwag

adj. Term used to describe low grade marijuana. This type of marijuana is usually brown, seedy, dry. The term is also used by many pot heads to describe anything that is low grade.

noun. low grade marijuana

You guys do realize that Russ is from South Florida and has connections in foreign countries :D Now you know why everyone was so happy.

[Keith A]

....Actually, for anyone that has the pleasure of meeting Russ or seen his fine machines in the gallery. It would be obvious that Russ wouldn't bring that kind of schwag, because there is nothing about Russ that is "low grade"!!!

[eddief]

and may even want to attend. But this could be the longest thread in forum history given there are months and months before the event. By the way, I average about 12 mph and am quite used to riding in the middle of nowhere all by myself.

[Louis]

Eddie,

If you did attend I'm sure you would be so inspired by all those fine Serottas around you that you would average at least 5 mph faster than your average average....

Louis

[Russ]

You guys do realize that Russ is from South Florida and has connections in foreign countries :D Now you know why everyone was so happy.

I knew it.... I am glad I clarified on the thread before Keith, phew!!!!

[EPOJoe]

We can just leave a few weeks early, Eddie, and ride our bikes from California to New York. By the time we get there, we’ll be such strong riders, a 20mph pace line will make you feel like you’re standing still :p

[Keith A]

I knew it.... I am glad I clarified on the thread before Keith, phew!!!!

Sorry Russ -- I just couldn't resist :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . "low grade" about Russ are his bike tires, which go flat precisely every 1.8672 miles!! ;) ;) ;) :rolleyes: :banana:

BBDave

[dirtdigger88]

Now I always thooght "schwag" was good "herb"! Either we are backwards in the midwest or my dealer has been taking advantage of me for years. :cool:

Jason ;)

[William]

No, "spleeff" was the good stuff, "schwag" was the shake.

Errr.....or so I'm told. :rolleyes:




William :D

[dirtdigger88]

My college daze beer volley ball team was the Spleeffs. I never knew where that name came from :rolleyes:

Jason

[Russ]

Now I always thooght "schwag" was good "herb"! Either we are backwards in the midwest or my dealer has been taking advantage of me for years. :cool:

Jason ;)

Listen to this man, he is in the tree business.... :D :D

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I should have him landscape MY yard! ;) ;)

BBDave

[dbrk]

I am heartened and cheered that this discussion has digressed and devolved to these recollections of debaucheries only vaguely recalled (by definition) and other non-commital reminiscenes of our collective misspent pasts. Lord knows I wish I could have back a few of those brain cells but have no real regrets for other consequences. Schwag or spleef, I'll roll with that...well...no more, but once upon a time. Perhaps we ought not to got there, not that I can remember...

I promise to survey the calender very, very soon and float a few dates and take folks input.

dbrk
who still has a few Serotta brand beers in the fridge if anyone is in the neighborhood...but neither schwag nor spleef of the ingestible sort

[dirtdigger88]

:p ;)

[Spinner]

Douglas, your last post made my day. Laughing is good.

And as fun as it is to recollect about past TdFL experiences, it's just as fun to contemplate the 2005 TdFL.

BTW, a cool wool jersey would be my pick for an event piece.

Ciao!