eBay to require electronic payments for purchases

[Frank]

This, as well as some of the other changes eBay has made recently, makes me glad I have sold almost all of my bike stuff. There is no greater way to reach a vast audience and get higher prices for merchandise, but I would so much rather sell on the Serotta Forum!

"Today, items paid with check or money order are 80% more likely to result in an item not received (INR) than those paid with credit card or PayPal. Also, buyers who pay with check or money order are 50% more likely to leave negative feedback than those who pay with electronic methods. So starting in late October, 2008, we are moving to 100% electronic payments - credit cards, ProPay, or PayPal."

Hmmm, maybe Serotta should require all stuff sold in the Classifieds section to be paid using credits that can only be used on Serotta bikes and accessories, like eBay would love to do (and is moving toward doing) with PayPal...

[VeloSlug]

I guess this means I'm done with eBay.

[Frank]

I guess this means I'm done with eBay.

buy like crazy on eBay until then! :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . since eBay now owns PayPal.

I've never used anything except PayPal to make eBay purchases. I have a separate checking account used only for PayPal and I keep no more than $25 in it at any time. That way if they pull any tricks I'm not out a lot of dough.

BBD

[xjoex]

I have no idea why you would be upset by this.

When I sold bikes on rec.bicycles.marketplace back in the day, waiting for checks or COD was such a pain.

It seems to only help both the buyer and seller.

-Joe

[markie]

I really like paypal. I feel good about using it as a buyer and a seller.

I think it is worth the fee.

I have noticed auctions of items where the item would have gone for a lot more if the seller had taken paypal. Buyers trust it.

[eddief]

if you choose to use ebay, those who can't/won't do paypal are a pain in the arse.

[Frank]

I have no idea why you would be upset by this.

When I sold bikes on rec.bicycles.marketplace back in the day, waiting for checks or COD was such a pain.

It seems to only help both the buyer and seller.

-Joe

My issue is that some folks want to pay with USPS Money Orders rather than PayPal or credit cards. That saves me as I don't have to pay the PayPal fee on top of the eBay listing and selling fees. I don't mind someone paying me with PayPal if they want to, I just don't like them (or me) not having the option to do otherwise. I have never had a problem with a USPS MO payer.

[BumbleBeeDave]

eBay owns PayPal . . . forcing all eBay users to use PayPal makes more profit for eBay.

It's all about $$$$$$$

BBD

[cadence90]

eBay owns PayPal . . . forcing all eBay users to use PayPal makes more profit for eBay.

It's all about $$$$$$$

BBD
Agreed 100%. PayPal on eBay is such a scam.

I sell something to you for $100, PayPal takes their fee, eBay takes their fee, and I get, what +/- $90? Then you turn around and sell the same item, and again PayPal gets another fee, without ever having moved a single dime. It's ALL about eBay/PayPal profits.

I hate PayPal. As far as I'm concerned, it's a convenience for the buyer only (they receive the item faster) so why should I (as the seller) have to pay for that convenience?

I don't care how a buyer pays me, as long as they pay. I allow the choice of payment/shipping time to be the buyer's, not mine, and previously if a buyer wanted to use PayPal I charged them the fee, by prior agreement, and didn't feel guilty about it all. I suppose that won't be possible anymore.

eBay is becoming a real drag, imho.

[trophyoftexas]

.....why do they also say: "As part of this move, checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay, although buyers can still use these payment methods for item pick-up, at the seller's discretion."

[eddief]

it evens out. if you want to do this stuff conveniently, efficiently and quickly, then ya pay the price for a mostly amazingly smooth running system.

otherwise you can certainly use other outlets. deal with the crackpots on craigslist for a while, then you might choose another option.

ebay, in my experience, has a great record for working with a very limited down side.

[Louis]

I have a separate checking account used only for PayPal and I keep no more than $25 in it at any time. That way if they pull any tricks I'm not out a lot of dough.

Dave, how do you get the cash into the PP-dedicated account in a manner that prevents it from being linked to your "real" account with the bulk of your money?

[Volant]

If you're a seller; ebay is forcing you to accept all forms of payment via paypal already. In other words, if the buyer wants to pay via CC, you have to upgrade to a premier or business account if you have an individual account. You don't have the option to decline the payment as you did in the past. And, of course with upgrading, you are now forced to pay the % paypal charges for every transaction going forward; whether someone pays via CC or via transfer. Fortunately, the guy who made the purchase on my last transaction also felt like this was extortion on ebay's/paypal's part and we worked around the system. I wasn't aware of this mandated acceptance of CC payments via paypal before the listing - informed once the item sold - that's what I'm miffed about.

[BarryG]

And, of course with upgrading, you are now forced to pay the % paypal charges for every transaction going forward; whether someone pays via CC or via transfer. This is basically true but there's a work-around. PayPal allows you to have both a "personal" account that allows no-fee transactions for your private transactions as well as a premier/business account that you can use for your eBay listings. Link your two accounts to different email addresses.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Dave, how do you get the cash into the PP-dedicated account in a manner that prevents it from being linked to your "real" account with the bulk of your money?

I fill out a form at the bank that gives permission for a particular entity--in this case PayPal--to remove money from the PP dedicated account. when I need money in or out of there I do a transfer at the ATM or at the bank's web site. PP does not know the number of my regular account and has no permission to remove money from it. They do have a credit card number for secondary payment method, but my credit union has been very supportive in the past when there's an improper charge on there.

Lots more info about PayPal here:

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

There are risks to using PayPal just as there are risks to dealing with money orders or checks. I have just tried to do what I feel I realistically can to minimize them.

BBD

[William]

...but I would so much rather sell on the Serotta Forum!

Hmmm, maybe Serotta should require all stuff sold in the Classifieds section to be paid using credits that can only be used on Serotta bikes and accessories, like eBay would love to do (and is moving toward doing) with PayPal...


Heck, I trust most forumites enough to sometimes send cash when I buy something, right Frank. ;)

Nix on the Serotta credits. :butt: ;)




William

PS: I quit using ebay a while ago.

[Frank]

Heck, I trust most forumites enough to sometimes send cash when I buy something, right Frank. ;)

Cash works for me as long as it arrives. I remember the first time a fellow sent me $1100 cash for a frameset and I wasn't expecting it to be in cash.

I told him it arrived and asked if he ever worried about it getting lost or stolen or someone just saying they never got it. He said no.

I would not have done the same as a buyer!

[VeloSlug]

buy like crazy on eBay until then! :)

Time to stock up on bike parts!

[avalonracing]

Ebay takes money... then PayPal takes money...
Come on you cheap bastages they are providing a service!

You are like the people who complain about the .41¢ that it costs to mail a letter across the country. Maybe you have a better and less expensive way to get it there?

Ebay has opened up a huge market and PayPal has made it more efficient, faster and more secure. Doesn't anyone remember how hard it was to sell and buy esoteric and hard to find bikes and parts before ebay?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Ebay takes money... then PayPal takes money...
Come on you cheap bastages they are providing a service!

You are like the people who complain about the .41¢ that it costs to mail a letter across the country. Maybe you have a better and less expensive way to get it there?

Ebay has opened up a huge market and PayPal has made it more efficient, faster and more secure. Doesn't anyone remember how hard it was to sell and buy esoteric and hard to find bikes and parts before ebay?

. . . about the service they offer and what may very well be a reasonable price for providing it. eBay has indeed opened up a huge market for both buyers and sellers. But I don't know that I would agree that legit worry about possibly having a problem is "whining."

Both eBay and PayPal have established histories of being unresponsive to customer service problems. eBay also recently made changes in feedback policiies that seem designed to attract as many buyers as possible by not allowing sellers to alert each other to persistently difficult customers by posting negative feedback. Pretty obviously, eBay is interested in attracting as many buyers as possible, rather than weeding out nightmare customers. I would imagine anyone who is a seller would worry about that.

Now they are forcing everyone to deal with, in effect, "company scrip" rather than real US money. Their attitude toward customers seems to imply arrogance, and that's what rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it rubs others that way, too?

BBD

[avalonracing]

I agree, I wish that ebay could be better about responding to customer issues but could you imaging what the fees would be to support an infrastructure like that. I can see it now, a giant call center of paid employees dealing with issues like:
"I need a refund because bought this used disposable Bic razor and I don't think that it is as sharp as the seller said that it was in his ad"

Of course there will be problems but I know that I have sold and bought very specialized photography equipment and bike stuff and have been very happy with the results.

[SoCalSteve]

Dave, how do you get the cash into the PP-dedicated account in a manner that prevents it from being linked to your "real" account with the bulk of your money?

Thats simple, link the real account online with your Paypal account (say like with Wells Fargo online). When you make a biog purchase, you transfer that amount into the Paypal account. No one has access to the big $$ account.

I prefer to use a credit card as if there are any issues, the credit card company will go after Paypal and the seller to refund your $$$, seems like a better system this way (more gaurantee's).

[Ozz]

Who writes checks anymore? :rolleyes:

Check fraud is the least risk, highest reward crime I can think of.

[bostondrunk]

I love paypal, love being able to pay with my credit card through it and get airmiles. When I sell on ebay, I only accept paypal, I have no desire to wait for, or deal with someones personal check, etc.
A buddy of mine is buying some bike parts from me, and he is going to pay me with paypal so he can get his airmiles (he's kicking in the extra $$ that paypal skims).
If you don't like paypal fees, then price your item accordingly to cover it.

And buying/selling on this forum is a lot different. People here know each other. Ebay you are dealing with strangers. And if anyone on on the forum rips you off, you can just get Willy jacked up on black cat espresso and send him on a hit... :)

[Ahneida Ride]

Won't be long before the paper frn is history.

They will all be frd. fed reserve digits. Actually I believe 95% of frns are frds.

and we will be charged (or the merchant, same thing) 3% on ever
transaction to gain access to our own private corporation digital
shopping coupons.

But do not worry, you will get 1% back on your 3% payment. :banana:

[thwart]

eBay has indeed opened up a huge market for both buyers and sellers. But I don't know that I would agree that legit worry about possibly having a problem is "whining."

Both eBay and PayPal have established histories of being unresponsive to customer service problems. eBay also recently made changes in feedback policiies that seem designed to attract as many buyers as possible by not allowing sellers to alert each other to persistently difficult customers by posting negative feedback. Pretty obviously, eBay is interested in attracting as many buyers as possible, rather than weeding out nightmare customers. I would imagine anyone who is a seller would worry about that.

Now they are forcing everyone to deal with, in effect, "company scrip" rather than real US money. Their attitude toward customers seems to imply arrogance, and that's what rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it rubs others that way, too?

BBD nails it...

POTD.

I use eBay... reluctantly.

Craigslist may bring out the loonies, but what a contrast in terms of a "business model".

[jmc22]

I love paypal, love being able to pay with my credit card through it and get airmiles. When I sell on ebay, I only accept paypal, I have no desire to wait for, or deal with someones personal check, etc.
A buddy of mine is buying some bike parts from me, and he is going to pay me with paypal so he can get his airmiles (he's kicking in the extra $$ that paypal skims).
If you don't like paypal fees, then price your item accordingly to cover it.

And buying/selling on this forum is a lot different. People here know each other. Ebay you are dealing with strangers. And if anyone on on the forum rips you off, you can just get Willy jacked up on black cat espresso and send him on a hit... :)

You made a point in your message I'm not sure that I agree with...you said "If you don't like paypal fees, then price your item accordingly to cover it"..
How do you go about doing that when your are selling a bike frame or full bike that could net a final sale price of say $4,000.00 - $5,000.00?.. Paypal's fees are as follows…
8.75% of the initial $25.00 ($2.19), plus 3.50% of the initial $25.01 - $1,000.00 ($34.12), plus 1.50% of the remaining closing value balance ($1000.01 - closing value)..
Ebay won’t let you increase your shipping costs to cover it as they will say that you are trying to circumvent their ability to collect their fess in which case they will cancel your posting without warning…
So how do you go about covering these additional fees that you would not have to worry about if you collected your fee by check or money order?
Lastly, I think what Ebay is doing is BS, I have done over 500 buying and selling transactions with them with little to no problems, the one time I did go thru and set up a Paypal account, sold some stuff and try to collect my money from them, well let’s just say that I would have collected it a lot quicker if I received a check.

[csm]

don't use ebay then. start your own service.

[ti_boi]

if you choose to use ebay, those who can't/won't do paypal are a pain in the arse.

+1

[ti_boi]

eBay kept me alive this summer! Seriously. :beer:

[weiwentg]

folks ... ebay is a for profit entity. it isn't an essential service like a utility (yet?). they have to deliver returns for shareholders. although, their shareholders haven't done so well over the last 2 years or so.

[Marcusaurelius]

I have to admit paypal just makes ebay so much easier to use--at a price of course. Sometimes I like paying the price and sometimes I don't.

I do at times grow weary of the whole money transaction thing and prefer to do the WTT here.

[bostondrunk]

You made a point in your message I'm not sure that I agree with...you said "If you don't like paypal fees, then price your item accordingly to cover it"..
How do you go about doing that when your are selling a bike frame or full bike that could net a final sale price of say $4,000.00 - $5,000.00?.. Paypal's fees are as follows… ..................


I guess all I meant was, make your minimum bid value (or reserve value) high enough that you'll be OK with paying the paypal fees.

[fungusamungus33]

I'd just prefer if they dropped the "PayPal" and ebay took credit for charging you twice. It seems that simple to me. Just be up front and I'm happier to pay. That said, if I'm forced to use their service for accepting and delivering payment I'd be disappointed.

[Polyglot]

Paypal works when there are two honest people working together. In this respect, it is the exact same thing that occurs with a cash or check transaction. If you have one or both parties that are not honest, it is super easy to abuse the system. In the case of a dispute, paypal will virtually always side with the buyer, and when in the exceptional case of them siding with the seller, paypal will first make sure that they do not lose out of the deal.

A couple of examples:
1) a friend sold a track bike recently, the auction was linked to a web-site which showed over 30 pictures of the bike, from all angles. There is absolutely no possibility that the buyer could mis-evaluate the state of the bike. It was also possible to see that the bike was quite tired, but was mechanically sound. The paint was worn, the components somewhat scratched... The buyer paid way too much for the bike in my opinion. He receives the bike, assembles it and takes it out for a ride. Like many newbies who have never ridden a fixed gear, the first ride ends in a crash with a bent fork... So what does a fellow do? He brings the bike to a local shop where everybody laughs at the fellow, both for the bent fork and the inordinate amount of money spent on a tired bike. The buyer therefore makes up a story to not look like the complete fool he really is: the bike already had a bent fork before shipment. He makes a claim with paypal. Paypal accepts the claim and tells him to ship the bike back to the seller and he will get his money back. What does the buyer do? He takes some photos of the bike, which show absolutely nothing, puts the photos in an envelope and mails it off. He then sends proof of shipment of the envelope to Paypal. Paypal accepts this "proof of shipment" and refunds the money. The seller is without bike or money. Nobody from Paypal will speak to him. He files a fraud report with the police, The police are now following this story up. To make things worse, Paypal has blocked the seller's paypal account, meaning that his ebay fees were not automatically paid from the paypal account as per normal procedure, this notwithstanding that the seller had more than enough money to cover the cost of the "refund" and ebay fees. So now suspended paypal account with more money than needed to cover the "refund" the ebay fees, plus a few hundred extra... plus a suspended ebay account for non-payment of the fees (already in ebay's hands).
2) I sold a bike for a few thousand $. The money arrives in my paypal account. I am planning to buy an item on ebay, so rather than have the money deposited in my bank account, I leave it in my paypal account. Then a fellow who bought a $16 item from me makes a claim to paypal that the item has not been received. My paypal account gets blocked with a few thousand bucks. Within 30 minutes of the dispute being opened, I send proof of delivery to paypal and then teh next day receive a note (also copied to paypal) from the buyer that he made a mistake and that I had indeed delivered. It took paypal close to 2 months to "clarify" the "dispute". Of course paypal was earning interest on my money during this time and I was not able to access my account...

Needless to say, I do not offer to accept paypal payments anymore unless somebody gives me a compelling reason to do so.

[1happygirl]

Ebay is out as far as I'm concerned. Since some co-workers and the Forum turned me to Craigslist (even though you guys tell me Craigslist is partially owned by Ebay) I've had good results.

Ebay, to me, used to be just people talking over a fence and deciding on price from maybe halfway around the world. It has gotten way too commercial and is filled with just as many scammers or more than Craigslist.

With Craigslist, no hassle about shipping, fees, and feedback. No hassel about extra discussion and time taking and uploading pix. Come see my item for sale yourself. I am careful, but I like it better. It is back to the neighborly feel and I'm just a person getting rid of junk idea that ebay used to have.

[daker13]

.

Now they are forcing everyone to deal with, in effect, "company scrip" rather than real US money. Their attitude toward customers seems to imply arrogance, and that's what rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it rubs others that way, too?

BBD

I totally agree. Sure, people who pay by check are often a pain in the butt, but I like to give buyers the option. More than that, the whole 'ebay owns paypal, now everyone MUST use paypal' thing bothers me. It's a bureaucratization of ebay. I know the dangers of nostalgia, but I miss the times when you sent a check to a guy and got some weirdly taped package hand scrawled from Tennessee, containing some impossible to find treasure.

I found the new rules so disturbing I actually did a 'chat' with an ebay rep to find out how to register a complaint. What I learned was, you can still accept checks and money orders, but you have to have the buyer mark 'pickup' during checkout. They have no way of knowing whether the seller actually picked it up in person. So the buyer can just send you a check, money order, or whatever, and you can ship it to them.

The new rules still bug me - they're trying to make Joe Consumer comfortable buying stuff on ebay, obviously because some marketing consultants told them that's what they have to do to grow. But, as I told the customer service gal, they're ruining ebay in the process. She agreed. Told me I had 100% positive feedback, that that was really good, and I would soon be made a PowerSeller. I replied that I would much prefer it if they made me a Power Ranger.

Yes, the new rules are ridiculously stacked against sellers, and dealing with Paypal customer service is a NIGHTMARE. Ultimately, I do prefer paypal, but I'm happy accepting a money order from some kid who probably doesn't even have a bank account.

[daker13]

eBay kept me alive this summer! Seriously. :beer:

I find hardly anyone buys on ebay over the summer - I get fleeced when I try to sell stuff. Has the summer been good? I have some lps to list.

[keno]

Someone must have mentioned that ebay owns PayPal, I believe.

I am mostly a buyer. I have a credit card as one of my options for payment through PayPal that gives me a 1% cash credit on the card, but it is only after they hit my PayPal account, then my bank account. I do have the option to use the credit card as payment each time. The only PayPal pleasure I take is every time declining their attempts to have me pay by hitting my bank account (as there is seldom $ in my PP acount) and getting the 1%.

I would feel less aggravated by the PayPal fee if it was at least on some kind of declining balance. Even though the relative electrons to move $1,000 vs. $1 are the same, the same fee is not appropriate as I see it.

I was in the financial business and remember how bank money rooms would "lose" a wire in order to skim a day's interest on a payment. It all comes back like a bad acid trip.

keno

[Tobias]

if you choose to use ebay, those who can't/won't do paypal are a pain in the arse.I won't agree to the terms and conditions of Pay Pal agreement. If that makes me a pain in the arse, I'm OK with it.