Any news on Hamilton?

[Onno]

I keep waiting for a story on the Hamilton saga with some new news. I know he's kept his TT gold, and that both Vuelta tests came back positive, and that he's still denying everything. Has he been suspended yet? Has he offered anything like a plausible defense. I need closure!! (Man I hate that word.)

Onno

[saab2000]

From what I read, he is not saying a word until the hearing, which I think is later in December or January.

He has vowed to clear his name, but I doubt that he will be able to do that.

His case is that he is guilty unless he can prove his innocence. I am neither a biologist or chemist and so do not understand the details of the testing, but the creator of the test has claimed it is virtually foolproof.

If he is innocent, I hope he can clear himself. Given his resources and those of his team, he will have as good a chance as anyone would.

But if he is guilty he must be treated harshly. Sorry, but that is the way it is. The sport will not change unless some of the big dogs get caught. It is starting to happen.

The sport is rotten to the core, people, as others here have alluded to.

What I like is when I hear about someone like Millar who claims he was "introduced" to EPO by a teammate. Guys who claim that they were more or less even unaware of what goes one make me laugh out loud!!

My question is this: Why would he use someone else's blood when he could use his own? Is that not safer and also less likely to produce a positive result? These are questions which at least raise doubt about his guilt in my mind.

Most pro cyclists are not geniuses, but Tyler is a bit exceptional. He has studied at a university level and is a pretty bright guy. Another one who is very smart, and knows how the game is played, is Tony Rominger. He, too, has higher education and is now one of the "players" in the business of cycling.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . most regulars here know of my admiration for Tyler.

The creator of the blood test is saying exactly what you would expect him to say. He’s certainly not going to standup and admit the test HE came up with may be unreliable.

That guy and the UCI and WADA will fight tooth and nail to avoid admitting that the test maybe unreliable, even if doing so and winning the case wrecks Tyler’s career. They have a huge vested interest (read $$$) in their testing being “reliable.”

However, the facts as I have read about them so far indicate that while blood testing of this TYPE may be a well-proven concept, this PARTICULAR test has a very limited clinical record prior to being put online. I would assume that would be one of the angles being researched in Tyler’s defense. There is also the very remote chance that he is has one of the very rare conditions where he does have two co-existing blood groups.

I also agree with the intent issue--in this case there are a number of factors that argue against this guy (Tyler) doing this. It just doesn’t make sense.

But I also fear that with the system rigged against him (and it is) no matter if he wins in court, the rest of the system will have many people believing forever more that he is a doper and cheater.

Good luck to him . . .

BBDave

[saab2000]

I hope you are correct, Mr. Bumblebeedave. I like Tyler as much as the next guy. I don't dislike him at all. But unless his defense can show that the test is inherently flawed, I don't think he has a chance.

His calmness is nice to see, as is his absolute conviction that he is correct. I am also happy to see his team sort of stand by him.

[victoryfactory]

The current VeloNews has a story on this situation. The inventor of the
test claims it is foolproof. Apparently, Phonak was not required to suspend
Hamilton until after the hearing, Why did the test say he had someone else's
blood in his system? What can his evidence be? Is Tyler just another guy
who is that desperate to win?

For me, I will never look at pro bike racing the same way again. Every time
I'm tempted to admire or respect a performance I'll now need to temper that with "I wonder which guys in that race are on drugs, or on their own blood?)

VF, The war on drugs can never be won. Too much is at stake,
It's too tempting for the athlete. I'ts too easy to cheat.

[11.4]

Without taking sides, but just to clarify, this technique (cell cytophotometry) has been around for 35 years. I used it for about 15 years off and on during and after graduate school. The individuals supporting it now are simply those who have promoted it as a method for identifying autologous blood transfusions (which are generally the most common effective way, short of EPO, to achieve the desired increased hematocrit). The method is widely accepted in scientific periodicals and in medical research. It's also been used in many investigative roles, such as testing of new therapeutic drugs. The test is as good as the relevance of different immunological molecules on the surfaces of red blood cells from different people, and only that good.

For some of these molecules, the gene(s) may be present but simply be silent (not actively be made, so testing won't detect it) but under certain circumstances could show up, at least enough to affect this test. Other molecules that could be the specific objects of the test simply couldn't be present because the body lacks the gene(s) to produce them (and I haven't seen anyone specify which specific molecules were used yet, partly because it might allow an athlete to pick donor blood types and once again dodge testing). Blood immunology is very complicated and much is still unknown. This may well be the area where Hamilton will try to fight it, i.e., the specific application of the technique to this kind of situation. The technique itself would be hard to argue with at this point without trying to contest the actual testing process and standards, which WADA has tight controls over. So there's a possible out (and it could be fully exonerating, i.e., a better explanation than inadvertently frozen blood samples), but to dig into this could properly require research into medical and genetic questions not just about Hamilton but about minor blood typing in general. Presumably well-researched types were used for the test for just this reason, but we don't know that. Mostly this is about what we don't know at present. This could require scientific and medical review of both Hamilton and the underlying immunology that could take quite a while. So there's no way to say there's absolute certainty one way or the other here yet, and we don't even know which blood types were used so anyone can opine on whether there's a "preponderance of the evidence" or "no reasonable doubt." I hope any athlete accused of illegal methods is found innocent by proper appeal, because it speaks to the betterment of the sport. At the same time, the discipline needs to be there for anyone who thinks of cheating those innocent athletes.

Once again, I'm not taking sides. This is just to say what one knows, what WADA knows, and what we don't know. It's simply wait and see. I sympathize in many ways for Tyler if just for his position as an individual in whom we all place such immense respect (a very hard position to live up to, and a very hard position to slip from, for any reason), but WADA isn't a bunch of fascists - they're dealing with a problem with the best methods they have available. Let's not take sides and see what happens. Everything else is just emotions.

Apologies for the long post.

[saab2000]

No apologies needed for the long post. Thanks for giving us the first educated information on what is involved!

Most of us here do not know the specifics of blood typing or this kind of testing. Or at least I don't. Now I know a bit more than I did 5 minutes ago.

[shinomaster]

I will be heart broken if Tyler is busted and proven guilty ,or admits guilt.
If he is truly a crook then he should go down. So sad.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Thanks for the information!

<<Blood immunology is very complicated and much is still unknown.>>

I think that says it all. In this case the problem is, as I see it, that “establishment“ bodies in cycling like the UCI and WADA and have very powerful financial and egotistical motives for trying to make us forget this fact.

My fear is that in ANY of these situations the scientific factors are so specialized and esoteric that the UCI and WADA are essentially asking us to “trust them” that their testing methods and the underlying theory are sound. As a journalist who has seen how insidious conflict of interest can be this bothers me a great deal. The UCI and WADA have literally millions of dollars at their disposal to try cases like these. Obviously, Hamilton does not. And he does not have the resources to engage in “scientific and medical review of both Hamilton and the underlying immunology that could take quite a while.“

I guess what I am saying is that, based on past experience, I trust the word of Tyler Hamilton a hell of a lot more than I trust the word of Hein Verbruggen and the UCI. And I trust D*ck Pound--obviously a “man on a mission,” judging by what I have read --only slight more than I trust Verbruggen. These people simply have too much to lose by admitting they may have made a mistake.

BBDave

[vaxn8r]

Dave, you're awfully sure of yourself. Do you see everything black and white....er...yellow? :)

Every time someone posts something which favors your point of view you pounce on it as fact. I thought journalists were supposed to at least attempt to shed bias.

You don't think Tyler Hamilton has/had a vested interest or motive to cheat? With millions of dollars in winnings and endorsements on the line? Talk about having a lot to lose by admitting he made a mistake. What is he supposed to say?

I'm not saying he did or didn't. Let it play out. But I do maintain, the science is not as cloudy as you would like to believe it is. Yes the testing is highly specialized. But it isn't as specailized as the cheating. Now that is a fact, attested to by many pros and former pros in multiple sports.

[Andreu]

"Blood immunology is very complicated and much is still unknown"
I agree Vaxn8r - taking one phrase from a good explanation of the science (which gives both the positive and negative aspects of the test) would hardly class as a mistake by the authorities. But like most of us I dearly hope it is a mistake....because I like the guy (doper or not). And, incidentally, I have little respect for the cycling authorities.
However, let´s not confuse our hope, trust and respect in people with science and the facts (when they eventually come to light - if they ever do!).
A

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I already ADMITTED my bias in favor of Tyler! ;)

I will also admit that the thought is in my mind that he very well MIGHT have done it. He would be far from the first hero to end up with feet of clay. I’m just trying to point out that what journalism has REALLY taught me is that REAL facts are often not as important as perceptions, spin, and dollars.

But I stand by my feeling that in my mind, Tyler has a much more reliable previous record of honesty and integrity than the UCI and Verbruggen.

BBDave

[JohnS]

The way that this year has gone, I have much more free time. The last two sports that I cared about and made sure to watch on TV were cycling and hockey. After what's happened this year, I don't even care about them. :crap:

[Tom]

It's like $5 to get in, often you can stand right behind the boards in the corner and you'd be surprised at some of the amazing plays that happen because the kids don't know they don't have the ability to do what they just did.

[vaxn8r]

College hockey. Great sport....and no resemblance to whatever it is the NHL plays. That's a good thing. Sorry NHL fans but true.

[TmcDet]

Hockey is my favorite sport to watch, I started out watching minor league games and then NHL....NHL is all that was on TV around here though, closest minor league team is over 2 hrs from here....I will probably get to 4-5 games this yr if I am lucky

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . always wears his bike helmet to the game now after that ugly incident with the errant puck. ;) :rolleyes:

BBDave

[zap]

Hasn't there been over 2,000 tests done in cycling alone this year and of those tests, only Tyler tested positive.

I hope Tyler has a case.

Does anyone have any thoughts or knowledge of synthetic (modified) blood products?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that is the first I have seen in some weeks. Tyler is also on the cover of the new VeloNews--though not for the reasons he would probaBly LIKE to be . . .

BBDave
__________________________________________________ _____

Hamilton staying quiet
10/22/2004
Tyler Hamilton maintains his innocence of blood doping charges, but says that no concrete details about his challenge to the charges can yet be revealed.

PICTURE BY TIM DE WAELE

Tyler Hamilton has said that the specific details of the case he is building against his positive doping test at the Vuelta won’t be revealed until after his appeal is heard by the US Anti-Doping Agency in January. Speaking to the San Francisco Chronicle at a fundraiser for his Tyler Hamilton Foundation in Berkeley, California, the Phonak rider maintained his innocence and said, “I'm asking people who don't believe to be patient. It's an incredible story.”

The legal process involved in making a challenge to that positive test for blood doping at the Vuelta, as well as a similarly positive reading in an A sample taken at the Olympic Games, is lengthy and complex, and has forced Hamilton to keep his counsel. However, he has hit out at accusations that he cheated in Athens and at the Vuelta.

“I have never cheated; I grew up with family core values,” said Hamilton, whose Olympic time trial victory is being challenged by the Russian Olympic Committee at the Court for Arbitration in Sport. “When someone calls you dishonest, it's the hardest thing to take. That was probably the lowest point in my life, it was like a kick in the head.”

The 33-year-old, whose career could be ended if the blood doping charges cannot be overturned, repeated his insistence that he would be giving the issue everything that he has. “I'm going to go until I don't have a cent left. I'm going to go until I don't have any energy left. I'd rather be completely broke and clear my name,” he said.

Hamilton continued: “One option was to quit; my wife and I have an incredible lifestyle and it would have been easy. But I didn't want to go out with that hanging over my head. I have no reason to hang my head and hide… I try to focus on the good things. And I think something good will come from this latest thing.”

He also insisted that his plans for another challenge at next year’s Tour would go ahead. “The number one goal still is to win the Tour. The objective is to be on the final podium, and if you have the legs to be on the podium, you have the legs to win the Tour de France.”

[bostondrunk]

"It's an incredible story.”

haha, I'll bet it is!!! :beer:

I mean, what kind of comment is that??? Maybe mad gynecologists from the planet Zoltar held him down in a crop circle and performed scientific experiments on him........incredible!

[bostondrunk]

BUMP for more info.

Anyone got any ideas on the incredible story???? :crap:

[Kevan]

Now there these reports that Ashlee Simpson wasn't singing her own song!

Cycling? Presidenting? Now singing?!

Where does it all end?

[Richard]

Well, I hope that Tyler's story is more incredible/credible (or entertaining) than Aslee's -- "it was due to acid reflux disease." As for the President's.....

[Ozz]

College hockey. Great sport....and no resemblance to whatever it is the NHL plays. That's a good thing. Sorry NHL fans but true.

My college hockey team played on an outdoor rink - good memories...hot rum....very cold... :fight:

[Andreu]

..........drugs in sport from a UK point of view;
ARSENE WENGER addressed a European Commission meeting in Brussels on the subject of football's contribution to integration in Europe. Asked about the use of performance-enhancing drugs in his sport, this is what the Arsenal manager said.

"When a doctor gives a player a shot of vitamins, the player may well think it is a shot of vitamins, but it is not necessarily what is in it. We have had surprises with players we have taken on, when testing their blood. We have had some players come to us from other clubs abroad and their red blood cell count has been abnormally high. That kind of thing makes you wonder."

[slowgoing]

"Incredible story" sounds like he may be one of those rare people with two co-existing blood groups, or at least enough molecules to make him test that way. I'd lock him up at a facility for three+ months, test him every month with the same testing protocol (testing for the same molecules, if that is known) and show that he does indeed test positive without any transfusions, and that his levels are relatively constant, which they wouldn't be if he was blood doping. That's the first thing I'd do.

One point that troubles me is that the test is new and these were the first times it was used on Tyler. If he had tested negative on this test for years and then suddenly had a positive test, I'd be more convinced. But we don't even know what his baseline result is to use as a reference for a situation where he might be blood doping. If he can show that this is his baseline, then that's a pretty good defense in my book. It's kind of like the riders who get waivers because the have naturally high hematocrit levels that are over the permissible ranges.

[TmcDet]

I seam to remember reading somewhere that Tyler was warned before the TDF that one of his blood test came back showing unusual.....if that is the case I think it could be even more evidence that it is him and the test....if he was blood doping and was warned I would think that would make him stop it

[Climb01742]

in today's environment, if i were a pro rider i think i'd pay to have my blood tested every month and the results logged with the authorities. keeping a detailed baseline record of your blood's "normal" range seems one defense against testing abnormalities...if, and yes it's a good sized if, that's what happened here. i still have my fingers crossed that tyler is innocent.

[weisan]

I have kept up with all the posts related to Tyler here. There are two recurring themes that people brought up again and again, and I wish to chime in with my two cents.

Theme #1: "The damage is done, why bother."
The damage is refered here as the perception of the public, the opinions or conclusions people have drawn up.

My father often tells me as I was growing up that one must stand up for what one believes regardless of what others think. Other people's opinions do matter but we are not living out someone else's scripts. Tyler had to do what he had to do, regardless of the "damage already done". It's a separate issue. Abraham Lincoln is someone that comes to mind. In his times, he has his fair share of mistakes, troubles and dissent but he did not waver. History gave him high marks and later generations billed him as one of the most highly-rated American presidents.

"This above all - to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night to day, Thou canst not then be false to any man...." - Macbeth - Shakespeare

Theme #2: "I would like to withhold judgement but the evidence is against him."

The idea here is Tyler needs to prove his innocence. The onus is on him to disprove or overturn the blood test results and unless he can do so, it's hard to believe what he said. The clinical test is more or less reliable despite being introduced into the sports only recently.

If we are cognitive of our own failings and frailty, and if anyone of us have ever gone through a bad patch in life, we can understand what Tyler and his wife are going through right now. For me, the right course of action to take is not to judge but I should concern myself more about reaching out to Tyler with a helping hand, some words of encouragement. I mean I hate to stand by and watch especially when a man is down. It's counter-productive to continue bashing him on the head or putting him down, in fact, sometimes it can have fatal consequences, remember Pantani? We are human after all. There are times when others come along and pick us up when we fall, maybe we remember those times and reciprocate in some small ways.

Just some random thoughts. Thanks for listening to a young and inexperienced guy who have learned so much from the people here.
:D

weisan

[Lost Weekend]

Very well said Weisan! :beer:

[alembical]

Another wrinkle for Tyler......or for blood testing?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/oct04/oct30newsflash
Santi Perez positive for blood transfusion?

According to Spanish newspaper Marca, Phonak's Santiago Perez has been tested postive for blood transfusion in an out-of-routine doping control, said to have been carried out just before or during the Vuelta a España, which the 27 year old rider finished second overall. It is yet unknown if the sample returned positive for homologous or autologous blood transfusion, but it is claimed certain that a counter-analysis has already been performed, and also showed evidence of blood transfusion.

Marca also publishes that the alleged sporting fraud was the reason for Perez' non-participation at the 2004 World Championships in Verona, which he skipped because of gastroenteritis according to his management. The newspaper also attributes the rider's difficulties of renewing his contract with the Swiss Phonak team to the positive doping control. The reason why the UCI or the Spanish cycling federation haven't issued an official statement yet is said to be due to a formality mistake, as neither the rider nor a representative of the team were present at the B sample procedure.

If these allegations prove to be true, Santiago Perez will be the second rider in history to be tested positive for blood transfusion, after his teammate Tyler Hamilton

Alembical

[JohnS]

It appears that Phonak's doping procedures aren't as sophisticated as some of the other teams in the peloton... :no:

[Andreu]

...quite curious to me is that in the article on the web explaining the science behind this type of blood doping they said that "autologous blood doping is not done because this requires several months of recuperation to let the body rest after the removal of the blood...a peak in performance is impossible straight after the removal of blood and the doping". They said "there is a considerable drop in riders performance for several months"....as if this does not happen and would be strange for a professional cyclist!

I would contend (either because of drugs and/or because riders are more targetted) this is exactly what happens.
A

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . from a Cycling daily news item at this address:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/nov04/nov01news

<<< Phonak added that the work of its scientific panel is being made difficult by the fact that neither the UCI nor the IOC will release a full set of documents describing the tests. Team owner Andy Rihs commented that, "Our greatest effort is still fighting all forms of doping. But in order to protect the sport, the tests used have to be absolutely correct. Otherwise the entire effort loses credibility." >>>

So if this account is to be believed, IOC and UCI will not even fully describe the test that was administered. If the test really was "foolproof" and "there are no false positives" as I have read the test's developer quoted as saying, then why would these organizations be so reluctant to provide information about the nature (and, I assume, the methodology) of the tests?

It sounds like they are, in effect, saying, "We have this test, and it's perfect, and we trust it completely, and Tyler and Santi failed it. But you'll just have to trust us on that, because we're not going to tell you what the test involves, how we do it, or anything else about it."

Hmmmm . . . .

BBDave

[Richard]

That clears it up for me. UCI and IOC are conspiring against Phonak.

Those Bastarrds!!

[Andreu]

<<< Phonak added that the work of its scientific panel is being made difficult by the fact that neither the UCI nor the IOC will release a full set of documents describing the tests. Team owner Andy Rihs commented that, "Our greatest effort is still fighting all forms of doping. But in order to protect the sport, the tests used have to be absolutely correct. Otherwise the entire effort loses credibility." >>>

What other parts of society allow "secret" tests to punish people.

Sounds like the UCI or IOC don´t have the test fully checked out or maybe they are scared that if people know the test they can work out how to cheat it?
A

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to have a strong vested interest in the outcome of this whole process and are being as obstructionist as they can in pursuit of that vested interest. We run into the same thing here at the paper time and again with public officials who make it as hard as they possibly can to get ahold of information that would end up embarrassing them, no matter that the info is clearly in the public domain. Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) battles are a constant problem for us . . .

BBDave

[Russ]

....So if this account is to be believed, IOC and UCI will not even fully describe the test that was administered....

On the other hand, you may look at the reason they are not disclosing info, as when the government is investigating terrorism or protecting a valuable asset. They will say: "from a credible source..." or "We can't say how we captured him/her, for security reasons..." Now, one thing is to believe these governing bodies and another is to believe the athletes... I seriously doubt that in sports, governing bodies would try to undermine themselves by making up lies or stories or accusing their star athletes, but then again, I have heard of many governments undermining themselves for certain interests...

I would say that if the UCI or IOC will explain in detail to everyone what they are doing, then the cheaters may look for ways to beat the system.... Which, IMO, is already happing in many other ways, such as when an athlete uses masking agents or uses sickness, disease or illlnes as an excuse to use a banned substance.

[Richard]

Gosh, Maybe Phonak's training table includes too much raw meat. What would be an "incredible" story is how a flawed test seems to exhibit it's flaws against two teammates, but not the rest of the riders.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . from Velonews about this story. I agree with the lawyer. There's no reason Tyler should not be able to get copies of the results of his own tests.

BBDave
_______________________________

Tyler Hamilton: Playing the waiting game
Late January before Hamilton case begins?
By Jason Sumner
VeloNews associate editor
This report filed November 2, 2004

If you're awaiting word on the final outcome of the Tyler Hamilton doping case, better not hold your breath. It could be well into January of 2005 - or even later - before any kind of conclusion is reached, according to Hamilton's attorney Howard Jacobs.

Speaking by phone from his office in Southern California, Jacobs told VeloNews that he is still in the "document gathering process."

"We're hoping to get started by January on the Vuelta tests," he added, "but to get going before the end of the month isn't likely."

Jacobs said that he has faced substantial resistance from the UCI and IOC regarding documents pertaining to the doping tests conducted at the Olympics and Spanish grand tour.

"With these types of cases it's always difficult to get all the documents you want and need," Jacobs explained. "I think the labs don't like to be questioned."

Regarding the UCI, Jacobs said he's made requests for documents some of which have been granted while others have not. But with the IOC, Jacobs says there has been strong resistance.

"We've made repeated requests [for documents] and been denied," he said. "They say they don't have to give us anything, so we may have to go court in Switzerland. These are results for Tyler's tests. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to obtain them."

The documents being sought are what Jacobs called a "general package."

"It would include a lab report, lab protocol and back-up documents that would show that the protocol had been followed," he said. "Otherwise we're just supposed to accept all this on face value?"

When asked about the recent news regarding the positive doping test of Hamilton's Phonak teammate Santiago Perez, Jacobs contended, "it shouldn't impact Hamilton's case."

"You can certainly anticipate the skepticism," he said. "But if it's a flawed test it's a flawed test, and it doesn't matter if a hundred people test positive."

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . however reluctantly, with Russ about this one. ( Sorry, buddy!)

The IOC and UCI MAY very well want to keep the testing protocols secret to prevent riders from getting tips on how to beat them. But even if this is so, it also forces the unavoidable conclusion that for these organizations, the integrity and public image of their testing programs (and also, by inference, the entire sport) are more important to them than fairly guarding the reputation and career of any any particular athlete. In other words, they would seek to convict riders unjustly to keep their own laundry appearing clean.

In other sports, the athletes have ended up unionizing--football, baseball, etc--when they finally got to the point where they could no longer tolerate the abusive treatment they felt they were receiving from their league's governing bodies. This could be yet another little step leading to some sort of rider's union.

In the meantime, I am still waiting for the hearings in January to hear both sides of the story. But the governing bodies are certainly not helping their cause with these obstructionist tactics.

BBDave

[Big Dan]

What hearings?? Who really cares?? Wait for what?? :bike:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . then why bother to see what's new in the thread? :confused:

BBDave

[Big Dan]

Because is like watching a train wreck..why do you worry so much about Tyler??? Guilty or not his career is over...Pro cycling has taken a turn for the worst...Livestrong $$$

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . about corruption in the UCI than I am about Tyler. They are killing the sport just as surely as doping by the athletes is.

BBDave

[Russ]

. . . about corruption in the UCI than I am about Tyler. They are killing the sport just as surely as doping by the athletes is.


Dave,

No need to apologize for disagreeing, that's why we post here, to have open discussions. My post was not intended to have anyone agree or disagree with me.... I just don't see many people cheering for the UCI or IOC and I thought I would put on a word to stimulate further discussion.

However, I would be a bit surprised to think that the UCI and the IOC would like to kill the sport (and themselves along the way). If that was the case, I don't think Lance would still be racing and many, many races and racers would have been disqualified long ago.... Now, corruption on the governing bodies, I agree. But the athletes and teams are not saints either.... I will leave this matter at this.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I just hate diagreeing with you because you are such a nice guy--and I feel so sorry for you getting all those flat tires! ;)

I don't mean the UCI is TRYING to kill cycling. They are just behaving like any entrenched bureaucracy in trying to protect their power and their "turf." They are just obviously not behaving so much to protect cycling as a sport as they are acting to protect their own pride and ego. There will always be a certain core constituency for any sport. But there has to be a certain level of interest from the public to provide the attendance, sponsorship, and therefore the revenue to keep the enterprise going.

They have a duty to set an example of accuracy and fair play and they are not doing so.

BBDave

[Russ]

....I don't mean the UCI is TRYING to kill cycling. They are just behaving like any entrenched bureaucracy in trying to protect their power and their "turf." They are just obviously not behaving so much to protect cycling as a sport as they are acting to protect their own pride and ego. There will always be a certain core constituency for any sport. But there has to be a certain level of interest from the public to provide the attendance, sponsorship, and therefore the revenue to keep the enterprise going.

They have a duty to set an example of accuracy and fair play and they are not doing so.

I clearly see your point now, thanks for the clarification...