How to best pick a bike/frame?

[GuyGadois]

I don't mean this to be just another which bike to buy. Rather, I am wondering the (best) ways to go about picking a bikes. What process do people use?

I own several (too many according to many) bikes but am looking to get something more modern. I ride about 5000 miles a year - mostly club rides with a couple of races thrown in for fun. There are so many great bike choices out there. Custom, semi custom, off the rack?

Pretty much every review of bikes I read in the various cycling magazines rave about the bikes. It is as though they are afraid of pointing out drawbacks except for weight (which is black and white). I assume that they can't give a totally honest opinion because the products they review are also their advertisers. Also, the people doing the reviews/rides probably have different needs and requirements.

So, what is the best process? Go to the local bike store and ride them? Bring shoes and pedals? Bring seat? Can you be expected to actually try out the bike for a significant ride? Can one determine if the bike if a fit with a 5 mile one-time ride? Buy and pray?

I would love to hear how others approach this process.

Guy

[bagochips3]

...

Pretty much every review of bikes I read in the various cycling magazines rave about the bikes. It is as though they are afraid of pointing out drawbacks except for weight (which is black and white). I assume that they can't give a totally honest opinion because the products they review are also their advertisers.

...

Guy

+1. I take reviews with a grain of salt for this reason.

When I last shopped for a bike, I did this:

1. Got fit for my current bike and asked the fitter to recommend some bikes that would work for me and to specify a size(s).

2. Called around to see what the local shops had available to ride and asked their test ride policy. (Most have pedals they can put on for you, just bring shoes and a helmet. I brought my shorts, too. Sometimes I would ride my bike to the shop and they would use my pedals. Bringing your own wheels would be a good idea too as long as your cassette matches the bikes.) Even though there are a lot of bike shops within an hour of me, it was actually a bit challenging to find the bikes I wanted to try in my size and built up.

3. Rode the bikes. Most shops didn't have an issue with extended test rides. My favorite actually said to take as long as I wanted without my asking. I made sure I took each bike on a short climb to get a feel for how the bike climbed and handled on the descent. I also took it on some not so smooth roads to gauge the plush factor. I think you need a few hundred miles to really know a bike, but I can get a good impression within :30 or so. YMMV.

4. Bought a bike.

It was a fun experience and definitely an education.

Eric

[1centaur]

Reviews: Most test bikes are ridden by real cyclists with real experience and opinions. Read a TON of reviews and then read between the lines, especially on what's not said vs. what the manufacturer claims, to get any insight.

Otherwise, the first response you got is in the ballpark. Assuming you know what your fit is (since you have several bikes and did not suggest fit was an issue), you care about riding sensations (noise and vibration perception), efficiency, quality of manufacture, looks, warranty, service, maybe seatpost design (these days). Calling around to hear test ride policies is a good idea - shops that are good to deal with and successful in the long run tend to allow long test rides. I like to get the bike and bring it to my home route for more than a 60-minute ride, though that's a function of my location. Anything under 30 minutes would not mean much to me.

My suggestion is read the Net a LOT for all hints of any issues with a bike or a manufacturer - most owner reviews will be positive and you need to look hard for the negatives and then decide which people are just whiners. Test ride until you know what material you want. Figure out how important looks are to you. Find an LBS you like with the bike you think you want. Test ride that bike. Buy that bike and don't second guess - most modern bikes from companies with names we've known for years are very good.

[GuyGadois]

+1. I take reviews with a grain of salt for this reason.

When I last shopped for a bike, I did this:

1. Got fit for my current bike and asked the fitter to recommend some bikes that would work for me and to specify a size(s).

2. Called around to see what the local shops had available to ride and asked their test ride policy. (Most have pedals they can put on for you, just bring shoes and a helmet. I brought my shorts, too. Sometimes I would ride my bike to the shop and they would use my pedals. Bringing your own wheels would be a good idea too as long as your cassette matches the bikes.) Even though there are a lot of bike shops within an hour of me, it was actually a bit challenging to find the bikes I wanted to try in my size and built up.

3. Rode the bikes. Most shops didn't have an issue with extended test rides. My favorite actually said to take as long as I wanted without my asking. I made sure I took each bike on a short climb to get a feel for how the bike climbed and handled on the descent. I also took it on some not so smooth roads to gauge the plush factor. I think you need a few hundred miles to really know a bike, but I can get a good impression within :30 or so. YMMV.

4. Bought a bike.

It was a fun experience and definitely an education.

Eric

Thanks for the response. I'll go ahead and call a few local shops and find out their test ride policy. I would like to take it on a 25-50 mile ride. Not sure if that is possible.

Thanks for the reply.

GG

[GuyGadois]

Reviews: MOst are ridden by real cyclists with real experience and opinions. Read a TON of reviews and then read between the lines, especially on what's not said vs. what the manufacturer claims, to get any insight.

Otherwise, the first response you got is in the ballpark. Assuming you know what your fit is (since you have several bikes and did not suggest fit was an issue), you care about riding sensations (noise and vibration perception), efficiency, quality of manufacture, looks, warranty, service, maybe seatpost design (these days. Calling around to hear test ride policies is a good idea - shops that are good to deal with and successful in the long run tend to allow long test rides. I like to get the bike and bring it to my home route for more than a 60-minute ride, though that's a function of my location. Anything under 30 minutes would not mean much to me.

My suggestion is read the Net a LOT for all hints of any issues with a bike or a manufacturer - most owner reviews will be positive and you need to look hard for the negatives and then decide which people are just whiners. Test ride until you know what material you want. Figure out how important looks are to you. Find an LBS you like with the bike you think you want. Test ride that bike. Buy that bike and don't second guess - most modern bikes from companies with names we've known for years are very good.

Also, thanks for your response. I do read a lot of reviews on the net and paper but mostly I feel they are biased. In print they typically ride bikes who also advertise and on the net it is reading reviews of people who either love it (owners) or hate it (jealous non-owners or people with bad experiences). The middle of the road people tend not to post reviews - mostly the passionate ones with adgendas. Obviously, this is my biased view.

Fit is always a concern for me. My other bikes fit but there are different animals bought years ago. Bodies change, components and geometries. Frames are very different from each other. I expect to get properly fitted no matter what the frame.

I agree with the test ride. A minimum of 25 miles. I couldn't get a good feel in underthat amount of time.

Guy

[WadePatton]

Some peeps use this approach: find builder or company you like, send deposit and measurements, pick colors/options, get frame built, assemble, be happy*.

*This approach eliminates the test riding dealio.

[Kevan]

with your fitter. Let the person see how you fit your current bike and witness your level of fitness. Then carry on the fitting at the shop. The two of you will then be better informed as to how you ride or wish to ride.

I think some fitters will argue this is not necessary, but I like to think their viewing supports their prognosis.

[GuyGadois]

Some peeps use this approach: find builder or company you like, send deposit and measurements, pick colors/options, get frame built, assemble, be happy*.

*This approach eliminates the test riding dealio.

I live in the sticks and the closest thing we have to frame builders are ones to keep the cattle in. Those are bigger and heavier and actually don't even have wheels.

[dekindy]

The amount of miles that you are riding dictates that you get a perfect fit for maximum enjoyment and to avoid long term injuries. OTOH if you are riding 5,000 miles your current bikes must fit and ride pretty good.

Fred Matheny, Roadbikerider.com, wrote a review of his Waterford R-33 custom steel bike. Custom being the key word. He had long legs and a short torso so he was able to achieve much better fit and ride from a custom versus stock bike. He had never felt as good on any of his previous bikes as he had on his custom. He also had a lot of knowledge and decades of riding experience and knew and was able to articulate his needs precisely. Custom takes fit and handling into consideration. If you go custom, the tubing can be customized to enhance ride characteristics. Handling may have to be sacrificied to achieve proper fit and you certainly cannot cusomize the tubes on a stock bike.

I have never went through the custom process but would like to find out if it would make a dramatic difference for me. I will try it if I ever feel that I am affluent enough to afford it. Meanwhile, I guess I will muddle through with my Serotta Legend. :)

1. Make note of any physical issues that your current bikes do not address and desired handling characteristics.

2. Go to a Serotta trained fitter and have them size you. This is the best investment that I have ever made. They can tell which bikes will accomodate your fit and handling requirements or whether custom will be better.

3. Get a second opinion from a skilled custom builder like David Kirk, Carl Strong, etc.

As far as test rides, wheels and tire selection and tire pressure contribute greatly to ride quality. To get a true test ride you have to compare apples to apples, which means switching wheels, which dictates going to an LBS that carries a lot of brands. Also short test rides tell very little. We know problems can arise on 60+ mile rides that never occur on 40 mile rides.

[Samster]

my process is as follows:

1. what's it for?
2. what material do i want it in?
3. what frame brands do i like at that moment?

after that, i go for stock 51cm- usually.

i've done custom and i know that my body configuration doesn't need custom. with handlebar, stem length and seat adjustments i can make just about anything work.

[dekindy]

my process is as follows:

1. what's it for?
2. what material do i want it in?
3. what frame brands do i like at that moment?

after that, i go for stock 51cm- usually.

i've done custom and i know that my body configuration doesn't need custom. with handlebar, stem length and seat adjustments i can make just about anything work.

What about handling?

[ergott]

I don't know where you are in regards to feeling comfortable with your position on the bike, but if know roughly where you should be, bring measurements with you to test rides. Saddle height, reach to bars etc. will help give you a fair evaluation of the bike you are testing. Another way to eliminate variables is to try and bring your seatpost/saddle. Bring your wheels with you and pedals as well. That will get you closer to comparing the actual frame and not the components which can be replaced. Then you can also see the difference in the components that come with the bike and decide which ones are worth keeping.

The more you know going into the test ride, the better chance you have of evaluating the bike.

[Samster]

What about handling?
yeah. i handle the frame with care. white gloves even.

[TAW]

Guy

What bikes do you have now, and what material do they have? Are there things about your current bikes you don't like?

I have tried to test ride bikes at a shop, but, of course, they usually don't have one that fits me right, so this skews the test ride for me. Having had and sold bikes, trial and error tells you what you like and don't like and what you're looking for. Then find a builder, or a company that builds what you're looking for.

[WadePatton]

I live in the sticks and the closest thing we have to frame builders are ones to keep the cattle in. Those are bigger and heavier and actually don't even have wheels.
I'm in the sticks too. Small hurdle. As I understand it, most small builders sell most of their frames to folks located far away.

[dekindy]

yeah. i handle the frame with care. white gloves even.

From your comments that is what I expected, but was hoping you were more serious.

[palincss]

my process is as follows:

1. what's it for?
2. what material do i want it in?
3. what frame brands do i like at that moment?


Amen. Your number 1 question is the one that keeps getting overlooked, and it's the most important one. It's not like there's only one basic kind of bike; there are plenty, and they can be very different.

[Peter P.]

With all these bikes you own, you should have a damn good idea of what fits and what doesn't. If not, then stop buying so many bikes.

You should write down the specs you like of each of the bikes you own. You should also write a brief narrative that accompanies each of these specs/bike/like that explains what you like about said bike, as long as you know the dimension so you can reference/explain the source of your likes.

Then find a builder to make you a custom frame. Give him all the paperwork. They'll ask for body measurements and they'll ask for them is a specific way i.e., some measure arm length to the wrist, some to the crook in the thumb, some to the knuckles. Pay attention and measure as requested. Develop a dialog with the builder. Have the frame built. Be happy. Sell all your now, superfluous bikes.

Production bikes WORK, but only if you're adaptable to the geometry you're given. Some people are too fussy. That's okay, but they should stop jumping from bike to bike in search of the perfect ride as they'll just get exasperated and waste a lot of money.

[Samster]

From your comments that is what I expected, but was hoping you were more serious.i am very serious. i take serious pills every morning.

[Samster]

From your comments that is what I expected, but was hoping you were more serious.
but being even more serious than i usually am, i can honestly say that handling in my size range is a toss up because:

1. carbon forks are slapped on without regard to overall frame design (esp. headtube angle.)

2. therefore, i am resigned to having to figure this one out for myself, but really, it's just a matter of requesting the fork that i think has the best rake given geometry

3. once i figure that out, close enough seems good enough (at least so far.)

these days, most bikes at a certain price range give you more than acceptable quality in general. so again, what's it for, what material do i want, and what brand do i like are the main questions i ask. dead serious.

[Samster]

From your comments that is what I expected, but was hoping you were more serious.oh, and i'm sorry i didn't meet your high standards for seriousness.

[GuyGadois]

Good advice, thanks everyone. I plan to call a few bike stores in the area and find out their trial policies. We do have a bike shop in town that sells Serotta so I will give them a shout and see about a fitting. How much do these typically cost?

Is there a central place to lookup framebuilders to see if there are any in my area?

Monsieur Gadois

[WadePatton]

You can tell us where you are and find out who we know in the area. The NAHBS site may have a listing of exhibitors, but that doesn't cover everybody.

Serotta Fit session in TN was $200 last time I checked. Sometimes prices vary by zipcode.

[vqdriver]

1. carbon forks are slapped on without regard to overall frame design (esp. headtube angle.)


didn't think of that one.
but then a lot of the big makers, (specialized/cannondale/giant) and boutique brands (look/time/pinarello/colnago) make their own. of course, they design one fork and slap it on every frame in their lineup........

[Peter P.]

Is there a central place to lookup framebuilders to see if there are any in my area?

I don't know of any list that organizes framebuilders by state. If your focus is to personally visit one, then tell us your locale and the forum members can hook you up.

Next option is to visit your local Serotta dealer and work with them. They should be trained properly to meet your needs.

A third option is to communicate with the framebuilder via e-mail. Many are experienced enough to provide you with a great fitting frame without meeting you in person. It's their job, so they're familiar with that situation.

[Samster]

didn't think of that one.
but then a lot of the big makers, (specialized/cannondale/giant) and boutique brands (look/time/pinarello/colnago) make their own. of course, they design one fork and slap it on every frame in their lineup........
yeah, but i think at least cannondale seems to do a better job of match up. don't have experience with the other brands. it's always nice if you can ride it before you buy it i suppose, but not always possible. oto, you can run the numbers here (http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/elenk.htm).

[tbushnel]

Competitive cyclist has an interesting demo program if you are interested in stock bikes. I haven't tried this myself, but sounds like a nice way to get some good miles on a production frame.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/road-bikes/demo-bike

ted.

[GuyGadois]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have been away from the computer for a while. It is interesting the different approaches people take to buying a bike. I went down to the garage and measured a couple of my most comfortable bikes and a bike that is not as comfy. I took those measurements and looked for a frame that has those measurements.

I came accross a Parlee Z1 that someone has for sale and is less than a year old in primo condition. The measurements are right on and the frame looks great. I have never ridden a Parlee but the reviews and information about them points to quality builds and good craftsmanship. So, I pulled the trigger and negotiated a 'fair' price for the frame and fork.

I have never purchased a frame without riding it and checking it over but it seemed as though this one was a good fit and not sure how many times I would see a used Parlee with my desired fit.

Next stop - the frame being sent back to the factory for Parlee to inspect and transfer the warranty over. Finger's crossed.

G. Gadois

[dekindy]

Parlee, WOW! :banana: :beer:

We must have pictures when you receive the frame and then updated pictures when it is built up.

Just say the word and we will help you spend your money on components, also.

[GuyGadois]

Parlee, WOW! :banana: :beer:

We must have pictures when you receive the frame and then updated pictures when it is built up.

Just say the word and we will help you spend your money on components, also.
What money is left :eek: ?

I plan on taking the 2007 Record stuff off my current Motobecane and moving it over. The Motobecane is an AL frame and is uncomfortable over long distances. I hope the Parlee rides better

[dekindy]

What money is left :eek: ?

I plan on taking the 2007 Record stuff off my current Motobecane and moving it over. The Motobecane is an AL frame and is uncomfortable over long distances. I hope the Parlee rides better

That works, too! But we must have pictures!