Help!! Espresso machine dying....

[William]

Mrs William won out on the last espresso machine purchase....I warned her it wasn't going to last (she's frugal and I love her for it...c'ept when it comes to espresso machines ;) ), we use the machine way too much to go low level.

Right now I'm looking at some mid level Gaggia's that seem promising. Also, the Seaco that Starbucks sells has been a solid performer for Ma William for a number of years (and that $99 blowout sale SB had last year was hard to beat - but I missed it).

Suggestions please. :)



William


PS: All set on the burr grinder...I won out on that one. ;)

[flydhest]

Gaggia has a new one that is a double boiler. It is the shizzle in the price range. If that's too high, the single boiler Gaggia's are good, but make sure you get one with the solenoid and be prepared to take a bit more time if you are making multiple capps.

Either that or do something great for her and build up points and then go crazy with a high end machine.

What grinder are you using?

I heart my espresso set up.

I heart Intelligentsia coffee.

I heart Counter Culture coffee.

[William]

Gaggia has a new one that is a double boiler. It is the shizzle in the price range. If that's too high, the single boiler Gaggia's are good, but make sure you get one with the solenoid and be prepared to take a bit more time if you are making multiple capps.

Either that or do something great for her and build up points and then go crazy with a high end machine.

What grinder are you using?

I heart my espresso set up.

I heart Intelligentsia coffee.

I heart Counter Culture coffee.


I knew you would weigh in you espresso-efficianado you. :beer:

I got a deal on a Rancilio Rocky grinder.

I heart Intelligentsia too (thank you Marco!!!)

I can try the buttering up approach...but she'll see right through it. ;)

Gaggia's look promising...double boiler & solenoid, got it! :cool:


Tanks Fly-pal!



William

[flydhest]

http://www.essentialespresso.com/Gaggia-Baby-Twin-Semi-Automatic-Machine-P1005.aspx

this is the one.

Rocky . . . good on yuh.

[paczki]

That looks like a great deal. 39Cross and Girlie will attest to how delicious Cafe Cristina is in a cappucino when they are not fighting over the green bike.

[katematt]

Often overlooked when going up against the attractive italian machines, this Swiss made beauty is a bit less $$ than the Silvias of the world. I have been pulling a fine shot or two a day for 4 years or so. Not a double boiler, but the wait from shot to steam is about 2 minutes.

Biggest benie, is that it heats up very quickly, 5 minutes to steam or pull.

Ciao bella

[mschol17]

I like my Silvia, but that Gaggia looks like a good deal, especially if you make a lot of milk-based drinks.

And Counter Culture Espresso Toscana is the way to go.

[Ray]

Gaggia has a new one that is a double boiler. It is the shizzle in the price range. If that's too high, the single boiler Gaggia's are good, but make sure you get one with the solenoid and be prepared to take a bit more time if you are making multiple capps.

Either that or do something great for her and build up points and then go crazy with a high end machine.

What grinder are you using?

I heart my espresso set up.

I heart Intelligentsia coffee.

I heart Counter Culture coffee.
That Gaggia isn't quite a double boiler. Boiler for brew and thermoblock for steam, which seems like it may be a better idea than boiler for steam and heat exchanger for brew, but smarter people than me have questioned how well it's gonna work and hold up. I dunno, but I'd be interested to hear. For the same money, I'd probably go for a Silvia, which is a single boiler, but is the VW bug of nice machines. You can't break 'em and if you do, you can fix 'em, hot rod 'em, whatever. Or for another hundred bucks you can get into a pretty decent heat exchanger machine like an Expobar (http://www.wholelattelove.com/Expobar/Expobar.cfm) that will also allow instant steam and instant brew. If you're doing mainly milk drinks, these are awesome. If you're doing shots, you're gonna have to learn the intricacies of the 'cooling flush' which doesn't have anything to do with toilets. The Rocky is a good grinder for any of these machines.

I recently upgraded to a true double boiler (Brewtus II) and a really nice grinder and I'm in espresso heaven these days, but I spent a couple of years with a Silvia (with PID) and the only downside was the wait time between brew and steam.

Oh yeah, I also heart Intelligencia, Vivace, and a new blend I get locally at Chestnut Hill Coffee.

-Ray

[dsteady]

I got one of these (http://www.wholelattelove.com/Rancilio/silvia.cfm?CMP=KAC-Google-Rancilio1&gclid=CMXcqMr2-5QCFQOaFQodZCG4rA) when they were still $400. They work great, are short on any bells and whistles but brew very good dbl shots. They have a lot of steps to them though and doing more than two in a morning becomes a little time consuming.

daniel

[dsteady]

I've since switched to this (http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/5279260/index.cfm?cm_src=rel) little guy though and find it very good. It's biggest drawback is that you are limited to what I'd call a light double shot. I just put in less milk though.

dn'l

pm me if you have interest in used Silvia. -ds

[jeffg]

If you want longevity and don't mind waiting for multiple milk-based drinks, I had a Gaggia Classic for over a decade and it worked great for my wife and me. Silva is another option here.

On the upgrade front, I have a Quickmill Anita now and there is no comparison in terms of performance and speed.

[tiretrax]

i have a silvia that i got from a restaurant that closed 12 years ago, so it's at least 20 years old. still works great. had a valve replaced at a very reasonable cost. you pay for longevity and quality and consistency of the brew!

[Ray]

If you want longevity and don't mind waiting for multiple milk-based drinks, I had a Gaggia Classic for over a decade and it worked great for my wife and me. Silva is another option here.

On the upgrade front, I have a Quickmill Anita now and there is no comparison in terms of performance and speed.
Kind of a revelation, ain't it? Going from the Silvia (a fine machine to begin with) to the Brewtus was like night and day. That's why I'd recommend that William and Mrs. William look at an HX machine like the Expobar. Or something like the Anita if they want to spend the bucks on real quality. But the Expobar is only a bit more than half the cost and will work just as well, but won't be as pretty and probably won't be as reliable for as long. But the speed and performance (for milk drinks) of an HX or double boiler makes single boilers look like dogs in comparison. Although a good barista can still get a GREAT shot out of a Gaggia or a Silvia or the like.

-Ray

[mschol17]

I suggest you go to the coffeegeek.com forums and buy a used higher end machine like the ones ray and others are suggesting.

The Silvia is nice, but it does require a lot of work to get everything to come out right. But then again, that's part of the fun.

[ClutchCargo]

If you want longevity and don't mind waiting for multiple milk-based drinks, I had a Gaggia Classic for over a decade and it worked great for my wife and me. Silva is another option here.

On the upgrade front, I have a Quickmill Anita now and there is no comparison in terms of performance and speed.

Jeff -- do you do milk lattes and the like, too, or mainly espressos?
(I'm trying to figure out the HX vs. double boiler - thing, and your
Anita and Ray's Brewtus are in the radar screen.)

Ray, I assume one of your main reasons for going with the tres cher
Brewtus is the ability to crank out lattes and caps quickly?

thanks, guys . . .


p.s. I like intelligentsia, too, and also these guys (www.piercebroscoffee.com) --
they turn out some really fine blends and ship really quickly,
at least for anyone on the east coast.

cheers,
(Jittery) Joe

[paczki]

William,

You're also welcome to come up to Cambridge and try my Salvatore:

http://www.salvatore-espresso.com/

[stackie]

Wow,

I am always amazed at the 'spro knowledge here.

Single Boiler: PRO. Best for espresso shots. Especially if PID'ed to have excellent temperature accuracy. CON. takes a long time to make milk drinks and either your milk or your shot suffers while you change temps.

Heat Exchanger: PRO. Better if you're making lots of milk drinks because you can steam at the same time as extracting your shot. CON. Hard to get good temp accuracy. You need to temp surf your machine which takes a good deal of practice. Cost more than single boiler. I went this route as there was not a double boiler that I was interested in when I purchased. I've been told that my stuff is as good as most shops. There is one shop locally that kicks my butt. One. I'll get a double boiler one day. When I've worked enough extra call to afford a Kees van der Westen Speedster.

Double Boiler: PRO. Separate boilers allow for one at espresso extracting temp and one at steaming temp. As good as single boiler for espresso extraction. Can steam and extract simultaneously. CON. Price.

It all boils down to what do you drink and how much you want to spend. But, always, always, make sure that you get the best grinder you can afford. The Rocky is minimum. Mazzer Mini is about the best you need for home.

As far as beans, you can't get better, fresher, or more economical than roasting your own. I get beans from Sweet Maria's in Bay Area. 20lb bag for 80-90 frns. I roast when I need them and don't need to pay expensive shipping on mail order. Yes, there is a local roaster and I give him props. But his 'spro style isn't mine, so I do better with my home roast. Get anything that Sweet Maria's says is good for Single Origin Espresso. You can't go wrong. Otherwise, just mix 2 parts quality Brazilian with 1 part quality Indonesian (Java, Sumatra, Sulawesi, etc.)-It'll be great. BTW, the worst coffee that Tom at Sweet Maria's sells is probably head and shoulders above what Peets sells, and that's not knocking Peets. Tom specializes in small lots of great coffee that is often ignored by the big roasters.

Jon

[39cross]

...39Cross and Girlie will attest to how delicious Cafe Cristina is in a cappucino when they are not fighting over the green bike.It could bring about world peace. :)

I'd like to get on the espresso bandwagon but the prices of the machines make me uncomfortable about buying one I end up not liking...too many frn's at stake. Are there enough used quality machines for sale out there to make a market?

[flydhest]

Ray,
I hear you, but the Gaggia double works well. I consider a thermoblock to be a boiler, personally.
I am insane, of course, and have an ECM and a Mazzer Mini, so don't listen to me or you'll want to spend money.

Stackie,
I don't actually find the HX needs temp surfing. I have it set at 1.1 bar and a quick flush (which I use to rinse the portafilter and then wipe) and it's perfect.

I do the 4 macchiati in 2 minutes thing that Mark Prince wrote about a few years ago on CG on a somewhat regular basis. HX or double boiler for me for ever now, though I hope not to need to buy a new machine anytime soon.

[sbornia]

Cool thread. I enjoy reading CoffeeGeek and bought my Solis grinder based on some reviews there and at WholeLatteLove. But all I use it for is drip coffee.

Now, I know this may be on par with asking a bunch of Serotta owners for the best bike at Walmart, but....what would be a decent espresso machine for ~$300. I know you can get decent machines for $500, but if I wanted to keep myself on a tight budget, what would you recommend? It would be for shots and americanos 90% of the time.

Thanks!

[Ray]

Cool thread. I enjoy reading CoffeeGeek and bought my Solis grinder based on some reviews there and at WholeLatteLove. But all I use it for is drip coffee.

Now, I know this may be on par with asking a bunch of Serotta owners for the best bike at Walmart, but....what would be a decent espresso machine for ~$300. I know you can get decent machines for $500, but if I wanted to keep myself on a tight budget, what would you recommend? It would be for shots and americanos 90% of the time.

Thanks!
I'd say one of the lower end Gaggia machines. You'll likely have to forgo the solonoid valve, but you can still make great shots.

-Ray

[stackie]

Fly,

When you flush, you are temp surfing. You're flushing the too hot water out of the hx tubing until you get fresh water going through. Sure, it's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. But, for some, it seems a bit much.

I would guess my temp variance is probably at least two deg F either way at the beginning of my shot and certainly the stability is going to be nowhere near that of a good double boiler. But, despite the fact that all of my taste is in my mouth, I find that it is good enough for me. Someday, when I am rich, I'll buy the Kees.

Jon

[Louis]

I bet there's a positive correlation between Coffee Geek types and folks who ride tubulars. Am I right? :)

[stackie]

Louis, Yes.

I for one am a self professed coffee geek, and I ride tubulars.

I'd also bet that anyone who uses a super-automatic rides clinchers and carbon.

I would second the rec for the low end Gaggia. I tried my dad's and you can get a pretty good shot on it. As with most things, your technique is more important than the machine. Leave it on at least thirty minutes before starting, flush the brew group until heater cycles, stop flushing, wait until heater cycles off, then load portafilter and extract.

Jon

[sbornia]

I would second the rec for the low end Gaggia.
Jon

Thanks, guys. Looks like Gaggia makes several models in the $200-$300 range. Jon, do you recall which one your father has?

---

And I'll bet that tubular-riding coffee geeks are also into hand-wound watches...

[William]

This place is tooooo coooool. :cool:

Thank you for all the information y'all are sharing, I really appreciate it.

dsteady, PM sent. :)

Rick, as mentioned already, Gaggia makes some good ones in the $200 - $300 dollar range. I don't know how folks feel about reconditioned machines, but I've seen some reconditioned mid level model Gaggias going for about the same price as the lower end ones. Fully tested with warranty.




William

[William]

William,

You're also welcome to come up to Cambridge and try my Salvatore:

http://www.salvatore-espresso.com/


Paczki: E-T-A, SIX-TEEN MINUTES!!! ;)



William

[39cross]

Paczki: E-T-A, SIX-TEEN MINUTES!!! ;)


WilliamWe're going to have to have to have a Tour d'Bean here in Beantown....for the elusive heavenly elixir of coffee bean that is!

Thanks for the tips on the Gaggia - anyone have any opinions on Solis? I found a few reconditioned models w/ the same warranty as new, they looked nice, but it seems to be the innards that count.

[William]

We're going to have to have to have a Tour d'Bean here in Beantown....for the elusive heavenly elixir of coffee bean that is!

Thanks for the tips on the Gaggia - anyone have any opinions on Solis? I found a few reconditioned models w/ the same warranty as new, they looked nice, but it seems to be the innards that count.


http://static.zoovy.com/img/espressoparts2/W560-H686-Bffffff/rancilio_silvia_diagram.jpg



Tour d'Bean :beer: I dunno if you folks want to be around me when I'm wired. ;)




William

[oldfatslow]

I would recommend research on coffeegeek.com.

I have a Exobar Office Lever (http://www.wholelattelove.com/Expobar/office_lever.cfm) which replaced a Rancilio Sylvia which is a great machine if you do primary espresso (as it only has one boiler it takes time to switch between frothing and espresso).

[William]

The last year or so I primarily pull shots and don't steam at all so a single boiler will probably do me fine. It will be a little more work when company comes over and they want a lattae or a Tuna burrito mocha frappicino. ;)




William

[stackie]

Thanks, guys. Looks like Gaggia makes several models in the $200-$300 range. Jon, do you recall which one your father has?

---

And I'll bet that tubular-riding coffee geeks are also into hand-wound watches...

Sbornia,

My father has the Gaggia "Espresso" espresso machine which sells for about $230 these days. It's cheap and plastic, but it does do the job. I'm about to buy one as a travel machine. Keeps me from having to suffer shops while away.

Good try on the hand wound watches. They're very interesting, but with all of the time spent glueing tubulars and home roasting coffee, I just can't fit that into my routine. :)

Jon

[Ray]

I bet there's a positive correlation between Coffee Geek types and folks who ride tubulars. Am I right? :)
Sorry, clinchers and cheap electronic watches. Probably consistent with jumping straight from a single boiler to double boiler - my next stop with tires will probably be tubeless, once they get that perfected. I'm into eliminating variables and ease of use. Hence, clinchers and a double boiler!

-Ray