Whereabouts of Troy Watson, Ligero Wheelworks

[Len]

I am wondering if anyone has information about the whereabouts of Troy Watson and Ligero Wheelworks. He has a wheel of mine which was built by him defectively, and which he said he was going to fix. The rear hub was anodized improperly, due to a failure on the part of his subcontractor. He had me return the wheel, and acknowledged receipt of it on June 13, telling me that he expected to return it to me within a couple of weeks. Hearing nothing from him, I sent him an e-mail on July 18. He promptly responded with an e-mail telling that he was expecting my wheel back the next week and would build it up as soon as he got it. Since that time, he has not contacted me and has not returned a single one of my several voice mail or e-mail messages. As it is difficult for me to believe that the Troy I previously dealt with would be so discourteous and irresponsible as to stonewall me in such a manner, I am wondering whether anyone knows if he has been hospitalized, incarcerated, fled the jurisdiction, or otherwise been thrown into communication-disabling distress. In the absence of that kind of explanation for holding my wheel in silent captivity, I will let you draw your own conclusions about this guy and the advisability of doing business with him.

[SamIAm]

Troy hand delivered a set of wheels to me recently and while he was at my house trued an older pair up. So as of a three weeks ago, Troy was a-ok.

I am sure there is a good explanation. My own experience with everything custom bike related is that its always late, always, no exceptions. And communication is typically poor. Oh and its always worth it when it finally gets there. :)

[Flat Out]

Funny, I just read a thread in another forum by a person that had some problems with him as well. It's too bad. I hear he does great work but I've heard enough bad things that I'm not sure I'd take the chance.

[stuckey]

My dealings with Troy has been good, he is not exactly speedy... but I am never in a huge hurry... I love the wheels he built and he is a top notch guy to talk to. You will be alright, he will get your wheel back to you.

[Len]

The thing is that I really need the wheel! I have made the point to Troy in my messages, but it seems as though he could not care less about what I need. He won't even tell me what is going on. I waited a lot of extra time before he sent me the wheels in the first place. Then I waited a long time before I inquired about the status of this repair. I only started asking him when the need for the wheel arose. But the fact is that none of us should have to apologize for expecting a person in business to do what they promise to do, or at least give a good explanation when they can't. But it seems like he could not care less about his customer and is just stonewalling me. As I said, unless Troy Watson is dying, in prison, or is going through some other kind of extreme problem, there is no possible justification. If I do get a good excuse, I will be sure to post it. I would not count on it, though.

[jwb96]

but it seems as though he could care less about what I need.
The correct saying is: he COULDN'T care less. Or, if you prefer: he could care about.

[Len]

Thanks for noting the error. I corrected my posting in both places where the error occurred, and fixed a typo as well. Now I just have to hope that Troy Watson will emerge to correct the problem that gave rise to this thread.

[ecl2k]

For what it's worth a lot of these one man shops are a pain in the butt - their close friends get instant service while you play email tag. You have to pay to play and this kind of unprofessionalism in dealing with clients is part of the cost. I just factor it in. They're normal people sometimes in over their heads with a lot of calls and emails and a backlog.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . we should postpone judgement until we have more complete information?

There may be a very good reason for his sudden lack of communication. It sounds uncharacteristic, judging from the comments I see here. The poor guy might be in the hospital or something.

BBD

[Richard]

While I have always shared the jwb96's belief, I was recently disabused of the notion that "couldn't care less" was more appropriate than "could care less." Either is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/wftwarch.pl?061308

[jvp]

If you could care less, then you are not "not caring" as much as you could if you couldn't care less.

[Richard]

Follow the link. Idioms are not always logical.

[SamIAm]

. . . we should postpone judgement until we have more complete information?

There may be a very good reason for his sudden lack of communication. It sounds uncharacteristic, judging from the comments I see here. The poor guy might be in the hospital or something.

BBD

Agreed. I just spoke to Troy for what its worth and there is a good explanation and he has been in contact with the OP. I am not going to divulge Troy's personal business here, but safe to say there is a reason.

I will say that I have one of Troy's new wheelsets on my new Kirk and it is outstanding. :)

[Charles M]

Lol,

He hung up with you and picked up with me...


I've never had a problem waiting for Troy's stuff.


In fact I just prepaid and have 2 sets headed this way.

[Idris Icabod]

I bought a pair of wheels off Troy a couple of years ago and had the same experience, he told me that everything was in stock and he said I would get them in a couple of weeks. Paid the money and then didn't hear from him again and couldn't get in contact for a couple of months. I did eventually get the wheels and they were very good. Troy has a million excuses about his where abouts/delays and every time I read a thread about this (check other boards - RBR, WW etc.) always has an excuse (family illness, bicycle accident, hospital stay etc.). Whilst I would say that things happen and when they happen to a one man operation can effect business, I never fully believed his excuses. I personally wouldn't deal with him again, he does build good wheels but there are a lot of good builders out there that are easier to deal with.

[1centaur]

Follow the link. Idioms are not always logical.

That link is not persuasive. Dictionaries vary in their rigor, with some having an anything goes mentality. My mother (an English major) used to say anything after Webster's 3rd was a joke - she said if something was said more than twice it made the later versions of the dictionary. Blithely tossing out "it's idiomatic" does not make it good English. Every misused phrase when repeated many times becomes idiomatic - so what? That's why dictionaries exist, to define what's correct (at least American Heritage disclosed their panel vote). "I could care less" is not more sarcastic by its nature, it's more sarcastic because it tends to come out of the mouths of young people who don't know the right way to say it, have heard the wrong way and are just repeating it, and are sarcastic because of their age. If one really wanted to say "I could care less" and mean it as said, one would use a different intonation, with more emphasis on "could." Instead, it's always said the same way as the correct version.

[Richard]

Take a chill. All I was doing was pointing out that it may not have been such a slam dunk to correct someones useage (perhaps a bit of a condescending thing to do) when a significant enough portion of the English speaking community accepts either as correct. To start a sophomoric discourse on Websters and idioms is beyond the pale.

[jvp]

I thought it was kind of fun and funny to disect the phrase, was I the only one? Irregardless, (ha!) it was an interesting diversion...

[Len]

Troy Watson contacted me and explained that he has been experiencing personal problems which have preoccupied him for a few weeks. I am hoping for the best and leaving it at that.

[medici]

While I have always shared the jwb96's belief, I was recently disabused of the notion that "couldn't care less" was more appropriate than "could care less." Either is correct.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/wftwarch.pl?061308

Which contains:

"But could care less, unlike these other oddities, has come in for its share of criticism. Its detractors point out it isn't logical and that English speakers should know better than to use contradictory phrases to mean the same thing. But could care less is idiomatic; its meaning is not conveyed by literal reading of its component parts."

Feh! As with so many other expressions in our language, it was misused so much that it became official. That means that all these misuses of "myself" will eventually become acceptable. Double feh!

Pete

[legacysti888]

I have a wheelset coming to me next week from Troy and another I have been waiting for over 2 months (that's because all the special components are not in yet). I find his wheels quite outstanding. Extremely strong, stable and VERY well put together.

I have found him a pleasure to deal with from the very beginning. Granted, he is not the fastest wheelbuilder in town with the quickest turnaround for a custom built wheelset, but when you do ride his wheels, the wait, at least for me personally, has always been worth it.

With regards to his sometimes MIA behaviour, I admit I have been a little miffed about his lack of communication, but Troy has always pulled through for me and have NEVER disappointed in delivering an EXCELLENT product.

Why do people willingly put up with a 3-5 years waiting list for a custom frameset? There MUST be a reason for wanting to wait so long for that particular frame builder build you that custom frame for you.....

[39cross]

I heart Troy. Hang in there brother.

[weiwentg]

Why do people willingly put up with a 3-5 years waiting list for a custom frameset? There MUST be a reason for wanting to wait so long for that particular frame builder build you that custom frame for you.....

in the case of the custom framebuilder, the wait is disclosed upfront.

in the other case mentioned here, it doesn't seem like the wait was properly disclosed.

[Samster]

Troy Watson contacted me and explained that he has been experiencing personal problems which have preoccupied him for a few weeks. I am hoping for the best and leaving it at that.
Great to hear it.

My mother (an English major) used to say anything after Webster's 3rd was a joke - she said if something was said more than twice it made the later versions of the dictionary. Blithely tossing out "it's idiomatic" does not make it good English.
Language is dynamic and ever-changing. cod* atmo.


*change or die

[coloclimber]

Troy Watson contacted me and explained that he has been experiencing personal problems which have preoccupied him for a few weeks. I am hoping for the best and leaving it at that.

Best wishes to Troy. I hope all is well.

I purchased two pairs from him this year. He always treated me fairly and loved to just chat it up on the phone. He does better with calls than emails. It took a very long time to get my Niobium/Extralite wheels but I was not in a rush and it was worth the wait. When it came down to it, he did an awesome job and very quick turn around on my more expensive Edge tubular wheels.

Building wheels in a one man show is an art and cut the artist some slack. Trust in the process. I am sure you could find some quicker wheel builders out there that produce just as true and round wheels that are evenly tensioned. But, if you appreciate the nuances of Troy's business, you may just chose to do business with him again.

If Dario takes a while longer and paints your Marcelo a little wrong who are you to complain, you have a freaking Pegoretti!?

[znfdl]

I heart Troy. Hang in there brother.

+1

He has always given me oustanding service and his products are second to none.

[1centaur]

Language is dynamic and ever-changing. cod* atmo.
*change or die

Take that philosophy to its conclusion and "ain't" becomes good grammar. The whole topic of what's correct grammar is not unambiguously defensible, only arguable. I remember debates on the Dick Cavett show between an uptight grammarian and two advocates of "Black English" who basically said that if you can be understood your language is correct enough. The grammarian made the case for precision in language. Both arguments had some merit, though I am inherently suspicious of the validity of arguments for the equality of behavior that stems from a history of mistakes/ignorance. "Could care less" fits that pattern, while some idiomatic language actually conveys a unique meaning and is thus an addition to the language ("that dog don't hunt"). That's the kind of change I can support.

[ClutchCargo]

Great to hear it.


Language is dynamic and ever-changing. cod* atmo.


*change or die

+1 on the Samster, on behalf of me and, judging from this excerpt
from his "On Language" column two years ago, Mr. Safire:

". . . Hixon takes to task those who respond to “How are you?” with the familiar but curious answer “Fine — how’s yourself?” She holds that it’s ungrammatical. “That’s because ‘How are you?’ transposes to ‘You are how,”’ she notes, “and that’s a strange but grammatical sentence. But ‘How’s yourself?’ transposes to ‘Yourself is how,’ and that’s ungrammatical, because yourself cannot function as the subject of a sentence — it can only work as a reflexive or intensive pronoun.”

Granted, but that’s where good grammar and common usage lock horns. The longtime usage of “How’s yourself?” has broken through the gravity of grammar to enter the stratosphere of idiom, as infuriating to us half-purists as “could care less.” In a language that knows when to hold ’em and when to fold ’em, one wild card trumps all others: Idioms is idioms. (“An idiom is an idiom” is not idiomatic.) Though it sneaks into the English language through the back doors of dialect and slang or repeated error, a word, once it becomes an entrenched idiom, cannot be heaved out of the saloon by beefy bouncers battling bad form. . . ."

[Rich_W]

Building wheels in a one man show is an art and cut the artist some slack. Trust in the process. I am sure you could find some quicker wheel builders out there that produce just as true and round wheels that are evenly tensioned. But, if you appreciate the nuances of Troy's business, you may just chose to do business with him again.

Well Said -- First, know that you're dealing with a one man operation who is focused on a very specific, and custom product. There is enough content online that speaks to Troy's expertise.

Second, if you're in a big hurry, realize the former... and go somewhere else.

Third, in all candor -- I understand your irritation -- and you wrote your point as politely as possible -- but public-opinion-complaint-crybaby threads like this, especially against a one-man artisan are lame to the core. I see you also created a user account just for that very reason. :butt: