Electronic Shimano DA

[zap]

http://www.velonews.com/article/81107/shimano-s-electronic-dura-ace

[danjo]

After reading the article I don't feel like I hate the idea of electronic shifters as much as I used to. I'm not sure why, but I'm a little sad about that. I guess I want to hate them.

[SoCalSteve]

I cannot imagine how ugly the wires will look...But, I can see why they didnt go wireless...

A thought: Build a frame to accomodate hiding the wires...

Just a thought, not sure if its a good one,

Steve

[39cross]

Quote: "the new Dual Control lever is 155g lighter than the mechanical version."

that's all I need to know ;)

[false_Aest]

I am sooooooo gonna buy this!

Eff' student loan payments, BABY NEEDS A NEW PAIR OF SHOES!!!!!

[benb]

Quote: "the new Dual Control lever is 155g lighter than the mechanical version."

that's all I need to know ;)

But the complete group is heavier...

And you need to remember to plug it in as often as every 600 miles.

[Charles M]

I cannot imagine how ugly the wires will look...But, I can see why they didnt go wireless...

A thought: Build a frame to accomodate hiding the wires...

Just a thought, not sure if its a good one,

Steve



If it's a bad thought, I'm screwed :D

I think the way this thing gets bang for the buck is on a bike where the thing is built up with the stops where you need em and nothing where you don't...


Just an adder, but the shifting really is awesom. Not like shifting is a huge hassle for any of us currently, but this really is quick.

[Samster]

"I will _never_ buy 'electronic.'"

-Samster, August 1, 2008


"I will _never_ buy 'brifters.'"

-Samster, circa in 1991

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . the speed of shifting is a non-issue, as I'm pretty sure it is for the huge majority of non-racers. The mchanical shifts I have right now are plenty quick enough.

The weight savings would be big for me if there were any. I'm sure that will come with subsequent new models. The ability to add accessory shift switches is also a big plus. How many times have I been climbing with hands on the bar tops and wanted to shift a cog up or down, only to have to go back over to the brifter to do that? Being able to go one or two cogs either way without interrupting my rhythm on the climb would be nice.

A bigger question to me is the power of the shifting motor, particularly on the rear mech. Turn a corner or round a bend on a road that's unfamiliar and you can suddenly find yourself on a quick climb and be overgeared. It takes quite a bit of oomph on that rear lever to get the chain to climb a cog or two to save you. Will this electronic motor have the power to do that suddenly and against chain tension as you try to keep pedaling?

As for the battery life, for me 600 miles is over 3 weeks of riding. No great inconvenience to plug in to recharge every three weeks! A bigger concern is whether there is a low power alert and how long you have to get home when that goes off. I've learned the hard way to change the battery ASAP when the "batt" alert starts flashing on my Flight Deck, or else down it goes and I lose all my accumulated odo info. Bad enough with just the computer--a lot MORE annoying if you suddenly can't shift!

The clutter from the wiring sucks, too. They can't come up with a coded wireless like a heart monitor or a garage door opener? If they must have wires, the optimum would seem to be a custom frame with ports you can just plug the various wires into. Imagine a Meivici with THAT option . . . And I wonder how much the whole group will cost?

I think overall it's fascinating, but I also don't think I'll be an early adopter.

BBD

[Elefantino]

Even though it's Shimano, and I run all Campy (by choice of one, not aversion of the other), I volunteer to test it in real-world, non-racer conditions.

Send your non-tax-deductible contribution to:
HELP MIKE TRY THE ELECTRONIC D-A FUND
c/o my e-mail address

I promise to write good.

[Charles M]

. . . the speed of shifting is a non-issue, as I'm pretty sure it is for the huge majority of non-racers. The mchanical shifts I have right now are plenty quick enough.

The weight savings would be big for me if there were any. I'm sure that will come with subsequent new models. The ability to add accessory shift switches is also a big plus. How many times have I been climbing with hands on the bar tops and wanted to shift a cog up or down, only to have to go back over to the brifter to do that? Being able to go one or two cogs either way without interrupting my rhythm on the climb would be nice.

A bigger question to me is the power of the shifting motor, particularly on the rear mech. Turn a corner or round a bend on a road that's unfamiliar and you can suddenly find yourself on a quick climb and be overgeared. It takes quite a bit of oomph on that rear lever to get the chain to climb a cog or two to save you. Will this electronic motor have the power to do that suddenly and against chain tension as you try to keep pedaling?

As for the battery life, for me 600 miles is over 3 weeks of riding. No great inconvenience to plug in to recharge every three weeks! A bigger concern is whether there is a low power alert and how long you have to get home when that goes off. I've learned the hard way to change the battery ASAP when the "batt" alert starts flashing on my Flight Deck, or else down it goes and I lose all my accumulated odo info. Bad enough with just the computer--a lot MORE annoying if you suddenly can't shift!

The clutter from the wiring sucks, too. They can't come up with a coded wireless like a heart monitor or a garage door opener? If they must have wires, the optimum would seem to be a custom frame with ports you can just plug the various wires into. Imagine a Meivici with THAT option . . . And I wonder how much the whole group will cost?

I think overall it's fascinating, but I also don't think I'll be an early adopter.

BBD

I gotta ask, is the speed a non-issue or is the bigger question if the rear will shift suddenly?? :p


I feel ya and I think that if I can have bluetooth wireless in my ear then whynot a fully wireless (except for battery connects) set up (including a wireless computer that will speak to a Powertap / SRM...

I would guess a strainguage would be next.


The shifting is great. It's great (darn fast) under load. And while it's not lighter, I would guess that a bike set up for the new Electirc groups could very well split the difference and the weight would be easily placed center-low mass.


I don't much like the plug in thing and my fear is a "what if" that would effect this in a way that wouldn't effect a cable set up. I think the shifting action is better but it would be nice if the weight were better too so that justifying the switch would be far and away a better set up.

But the farkin things shift really well... (both Campy and Shimano.)

[toaster]

The fact that Shimano is putting this out there is huge. It might stutter but given the state of technology today it will be refined to the point that it will work and work better than cables/mechanical shifting does now.

All it will take is clean internal routing and simple battery re-charging to make this as easy as turning a cell phone off and on for this to take off and be a viable system.

I'd take it in the Campagnolo or Sram flavor, however.

[zap]

Clean internal cable routing sounds great...............until you try it.

I did this with Mavic Zap rear derailleur back in '94. I spent 4 hours cutting, snaking and soldering (mil spec) the cable back together.

The problem. Look did not make it easy. First, I needed to remove the rear derailleur cable stop that was epoxied in place, then I had to remove the plastic internal cable liner (also epoxied in place at the ends) because the electronic cable was too thick to fit inside that. Then I had to snake that cable, not easy as it was still a very tight fit, without damaging it through the downtube and most of the chainstay.

It was really slick and worked all those years (only one battery change) until it started to go nuts late last year.

The really cool part was that young riders didn't know what the hell it was and were amazed that this was done in the mid 90's.

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. If these electronic systems take off, Campy will follow, then this might be the next step in product integration for frame and component manufacturers.

[avalonracing]

If they ever end up doing wireless can you imagine more fun than having a "hack" that would allow you to shift the bike next to you :rolleyes:

[TAW]

It looks good to me. No more cables and housing sticking out of the shifter or running along the bars. What will I do with all those in-line gear indicators sitting in my parts bin?? :)

[dsteady]

How well can the battery pack withstand a crash? Does it bolt in? I have this image of going to the deck and watching the battery pack clattering across the asphalt, becoming suddenly quite useless.

I dunno. I guess I'm an analogue guy.

daniel

[cleavel]

Hello,

Could end up being the next Dura Ace AX? ;) :)

[Ti Designs]

Electronics on bikes - bad idea. Electronics that can leave you in the wrong gear 30 hilly miles from home, very bad idea.

When the day comes that I can't keep up on a ride 'cause I'm running Shimano 9-speed and everybody else has electronic 11 speed - no, that's never gonna happen...

[Jeff N.]

Now let's see 'em invent power brakes! Jeff N.

[David Kirk]

Electronics on bikes - bad idea. Electronics that can leave you in the wrong gear 30 hilly miles from home, very bad idea.

When the day comes that I can't keep up on a ride 'cause I'm running Shimano 9-speed and everybody else has electronic 11 speed - no, that's never gonna happen...

As I understand the system it has detents that allow you to manually place the derailleur in any gear you like and have it stay there even if the battery is toast. So on the off chance that the battery does die because you didn't do the required "maintenance" you won't be stuck riding home in the 11..........like you would be if the cable broke or slipped from it's clamp.

Dave

[SoCalSteve]

Now let's see 'em invent power brakes! Jeff N.

And power steering as well...now thats something I'd be all over!

Just sayin'

Steve

[dvs cycles]

And power steering as well...now thats something I'd be all over!

Just sayin'

SteveI'm waiting for the power cranks myself. Not complete just a 1/4 hp assist would be nice. :beer:

[benb]

There is no reason wireless couldn't be made safe and extremely reliable.. especially at the insane price point DA is at.

They could use the same wireless 2.4ghz spread spectrum stuff that powers radio control airplanes which cost even more then many high end bicycles and can cause incredible damage if the radio system fails.. only need two channels.

The big thing is batteries and shimano is totally right to go with wired for that reason.. you don't want 3-4 sets of batteries when 1 battery works with wired. Way more expensive to replace the batteries when they die, way more chance one of them gets destroyed in a crash, etc..

Didn't catch if the batteries are Lithium Ion.. but they are a fire risk in a crash. The cell phone industry has made us all seemingly unaware and oblivious to the risks of carrying these batteries around in our pockets but Li-Ion batteries do have a tendency to start on fire when overcharged or damaged, and the DA battery is probably fairly powerful to last so long moving mechanical motors.

[sg8357]

When the day comes that I can't keep up on a ride 'cause I'm running Shimano 9-speed and everybody else has electronic 11 speed - no, that's never gonna happen...

Note to the class, Grant Petersen has hi-jacked Ti-D's account.

Scott G.