Carbon steerer tube creak--Good, bad, or ugly?

[BumbleBeeDave]

For most of this season I've been alternating my Serotta rides with the Specialized S-Works "Zebra Edition" bike I got on eBay last winter. It's a sweet ride, Columbus Aerotec aluminum frame with a specialized Carbon4 fork with carbon steerer, FSA integrated headset, Specialized stem. distinctly different ride from the Serotta titanium--not better, just different--stiff, snappy, goes like hell when I sprint. I see why Cipollini liked it. Great sprinting bike. It's my Ferrari bike as compared to the Serotta Ti, which I would liken to an AMG Mercedes.

The problem is that it seems to have a creak, obviously in the head tube. Seems to do it more after I've been riding on rough pavement for a while, but almost always only does it under load--when I'm up out of the saddle attacking a hill or otherwise pounding on it. I re-adjusted the headset and made sure the expansion plug and stem bolts were properly adjusted as best I can given my lack of experience with carbon steerers and no torque wrench. The frustrating part is that the creak is intermittent--some rides it doesn't do it at all. Others it does it for part or the whole ride.

I have not yet put it on the work stand to tear apart the whole front end to see what's what. Is this type of intermittent noise unusual for a carbon steerer? Should I be worried? Everything seems solid, no play anywhere.

Grateful for any advice anyone with some experience with carbon steerers could give me!

BBD

[Peter P.]

Aluminum frames are notorious for broadcasting noises from anywhere in the frame, and it usually takes some detective work to track down the source and silence it.

My answer operates on the assumption you firmly believe it's in the front end of the bike. Therefore I won't offer other suggestions to try to eliminate other sources.

You have to pull the fork out and grease all the parts of the integrated headset. If the bearings are press fit into the frame or it has some sort of "cups" for its integrated design, they should be removed and greased, too.

Your stem contact with the steerer should be greased even though it's a carbon steerer or, if you disagree with some of the philosophies regarding grease and carbon, then use some of the carbon pastes on the market typically used for carbon seatposts. Grease all your stem bolts and torque them to spec.

I'd grab the aluminum dropouts by hand and try to twist them. If you can't induce the creak, then they're probably fine.

If you continue to have problems, report back and other remedies can be suggested.

[Erik.Lazdins]

Ride the Serotta and investigate a bit more!

You don't want confirmation that the cause of the creak was impending breakage.

Besides I've heard some good things about how those Queen Bee Legends ride on Mondays!

best,
E :beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

You don't want confirmation that the cause of the creak was impending breakage.

. . . That thought did occur to me while I was bombing through the Adirondacks yesterday. Perhaps I should indeed give the Queen Bee my undivided attention for a while. I have a hunch she was aware I've been "cheating" on her anyway! ;)

Peter . . . I'll try your suggestions. Can you suggest any particular brand of carbon paste I might go get?

BBD

[William]

When in doubt, throw it out.

:fight:

Not helpful I know, but it's the first thing that popped into my head. We missed you big guy. I hope you had a good "frolic". :D ;)





William

[terry b]

Pull the faceplate off the stem. Remove the bar. Put the thin, thin, thinnest amount of grease on the inside stem surfaces that touch the bar. Put the whole thing together and try it again.

I've had what sounds like the exact same problem a half-dozen times. This always fixed it.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Pull the faceplate off the stem. Remove the bar. Put the thin, thin, thinnest amount of grease on the inside stem surfaces that touch the bar. Put the whole thing together and try it again.

I've had what sounds like the exact same problem a half-dozen times. This always fixed it.

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to get together a list of all these things and then do them all and hope that will do it. I'll also pull the fork out and look at the tube VERY carefully to see if anything seems amiss with that.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

When in doubt, throw it out.

Not helpful I know, but it's the first thing that popped into my head. We missed you big guy. I hope you had a good "frolic". :D ;)

William

Throw out the fork? The stem? The whole bike? Be CLEAR, Man!

Yes, we had a great weekend. I did 35 miles yesterday through the woods with virtually no traffic and beautiful weather. Bev and I also did some work around the cabin, gathering and chopping wood, BBQ'd some chicken on the grille, talked a whole lot, slept late both days. Just some really great 1-on-1 time, just the two of us. And yesterday when I came steaming up the hill toward the cabin, absolutely blown, she was sitting by the road waiting for me. Said she'd been there about five minutes after having a "hunch" that I was about to get back. Yeah, a REALLY great weekend. I hope you guys all had a good time, too!

BBD

[A.L.Breguet]

Integrated headset? If so, make sure the recesses in the headtube are clean and greased.
Plus all the other stuff people have suggested regarding greasing threads,....

[CNY rider]

And Jeez Louise would you spring for a torque wrench already?
Very helpful tool for a very little price.

[Fixed]

Integrated headset? If so, make sure the recesses in the headtube are clean and greased.
Plus all the other stuff people have suggested regarding greasing threads,....
bingo ... check wheels too
cheers :beer:

[Charles M]

The last two buddies who compained about head tube area squeek were fixed with a front QR adjustment (tighter)

Another found that the spacers were not perfectly flat against the head set (or each other).

Another with a stem cap that wasn't sitting well with the stem.

Another had a headset fork base race that wasn't pressed firmly.



Squeeks suck.

[regularguy412]

Pull the faceplate off the stem. Remove the bar. Put the thin, thin, thinnest amount of grease on the inside stem surfaces that touch the bar. Put the whole thing together and try it again.

I've had what sounds like the exact same problem a half-dozen times. This always fixed it.

+1 here,,, as long as it's aluminum bars/metal stem

If the bars have a ferrule in the center, that could be it -- due simply to mileage. My old bars (with a ferrule) developed a creak AFTER I installed them on a new stem. No amount of tightening or greasing would cure it. Had to get new bars. End of problem.

Mike in AR:beer:

[avalonracing]

I cannot believe that no one has said it yet but...
It is probably the front skewer. I know I know it sounds like the headtube but I would say there is a real likelihood that the skewer is it.

Trust me, I had the same problem and spent hours tearing stuff apart because it seemed impossible that the sound was coming from the skewer... it was.

[keevon]

I also have a Specialized Aerotec bike, had a creak, and posted about it here. Check the thread for a bunch of suggestions:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=45707

Ended up that I wasn't getting sufficient preload on the bears: I needed a microspacer between the upper bearing and the top cap, and the FSA expander plug is garbage. Found and installed a microspacer (FSA makes some, .25mm thick) and swapped in an Ouzo Pro Integrated fork with Reynolds plug. No problems since. :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

OK, so looks this weekend I’m going to tackle this creak and see what I can find. I’m reasonably sure at this point that it’s in the head tube somewhere, since at times I’ve been able to put my weight on the handlebars and have it make the creak even when I’m not riding.

I really don’t want to wade into the headset, so just to be sure, first I’ll change the skewers and go do a test ride, then I’ll change the wheels and do a test ride. Then I’ll try to twist the aluminum dropouts on the fork by hand and see if there’s and “give.” Then I’ll very lightly grease the handlebar/stem interface and the steerer tube/stem interface and torque bolts to spec. If none of those work I’ll pull the fork and do the following . . .

1) Closely inspect steerer tube for any cracks or other imperfections.
2) Grease the integrated headset and cups if it has them.
3) Make sure recesses in the head tube are clean and greased.

I will also pursue Keevon’s suggestions and see if maybe it needs the microspacer and what kind of compression plug is on there. I seem to remember it’s a Profile, not an FSA. Can’t check now, though, as I’m at work.

Wish me luck! . . .

BBD

[keevon]

Sounds like a good plan. Two more things to check:

1) Make sure crown race sits flush on the fork crown and dab a little grease on it.

2) Do you have a spacer above the stem? My Reynolds full-carbon fork wants the stem 100% clamped on the steerer tube, and creaks if it doesn't get its way.

Good luck! Report back with your findings.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . Do you have a spacer above the stem? My Reynolds full-carbon fork wants the stem 100% clamped on the steerer tube, and creaks if it doesn't get its way. . . .

. . . the steerer tube is not long enough to put a spacer on top without lowering the bars. But I'll check it--I have had the stem and compression plug off and I'm pretty sure the top of the stem clamp is flush with the top of the steerer tube.

BBD

[keevon]

Any luck chasing down that creak?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but thanks for asking!

I've got bike maintenance time skedded for tonight and I'm going to change the skewer and grease the stem/bar interface and give it a try. I already tried unsuccessfully to rotate the fork dropouts by hand, so I don't think it's that. I only want to tear down the headset as a last resort.

I've spent most of my non-riding time this past week cleaning up the %&$* bikes. Got caught in the rain on THREE different rides this past week! $%&*$# rain! I hope it stops before the Ramble this next weekend.

BBD