Crown Jewel Ti vs. Legend Ti

[EdK]

Anyone own or ridden both???? Comments....

[Climb01742]

i own a crown jewel ti and have test-ridden four legends and owned an hors. the CJ is, hands down, the best of the bunch, IMO and based on what i look for in a frame. all of the legends i rode were too stiff and overbuilt for me, a wimpy 150 spinner. the legend part of the hors i owned i liked alot, all skinny tubes, nothing oversized, but i wasn't wild about the DKS part, but in total, it rode quite well. that said, my IF CJ blows them all away. it is light, lithe, alive, climbs amazingly well, is unbending on the flats under power, stable, responsive as h*ll, and very comfy. in my heart of hearts i want to believe that a legend could be built that wouldn't be too stiff or too overbuilt, same goes for an ottrott, for that matter. but based purely on what my butt tells me, an IF ti CJ is tough to beat. but that's purely my .02 and your results may vary wildly.

[John H.]

Climb,
You and I are about the same size.
You must not have ridden a legend that was made for your weight/size.
I have a custom compact Legend made for a 150 lb. rider and it rocks!
It is not over (or under) built. Stiff where it needs to be stiff, comfortable on long rides, climbs great, descends well, and generally handles like a dream.
John H

[Climb01742]

john, i think you are absolutely right. i simply have had unfortunate experiences with legends and an ottrott. on the other hand, my CIII and CSi have been wonderful experiences. i'm a huge serotta fan. i will pull the trigger on either a new legend or an ottrott at some point...that is where my heart is...i'm just waiting until my mind catches up! :D

[Ahneida Ride]

Climb has a point.

The 60 Legend I test drove at the factory was far harsher then
my 64 oversized beefed up 64 Legend. A real comphy ride.
( Perhaps someone could explain why to me ? )

I told my fitter, Hey I want a bike I can ride. I suppose if I said I want
a bike I can race, I would have received a different product.

The right ride characteristcs are really a mater of effective communication,
a decent fitter and the fitters ability to relay your information to Kelly.

I suspect that left to it's own discrestion, Serotta will build em stiff.

[John H.]

Climb,
What do you like so much about your IF Ti Crown Jewel? Do you know how much the frame weighed?
I have a nice Ti legend, but I am thinking of a new bike for purposes of a slightly differnet fit. I plan to extend the top tube out 1cm and cut back 1 cm on the stem.
I am considering another Ti legend (classic rear end), Ottrott ST, and now a Ti Crown Jewel. I just got an IF Ti Deluxe MTB and it is stunning!
Just looking for input since I think that you have owned or ridden all of these.

[Tony Edwards]

It seems to me it's hard to go wrong with either brand in terms of quality, but I must admit I'm a little mystified by some of the choices IF makes in geometry. I'm 6'4" with pretty average dimensions, so in general I am comfortable with a 62cm frame. Unfortunately, the IF 62 has a 61cm top tube, which is way too much for me (and way more than most other builders, save the unfortunate period in the mid-90s when Serotta was making all their big bikes with identical seat and top tubes). In order to get a more, well, normal TT of 59.5, I'd have to drop all the way to a 59 C-C, which is just too small.

Obviously I could get a custom, but at that point I think I'd look elsewhere.

[Climb01742]

john, i've never weighed the frame, except for the "one arm lift" and based on that highly unscientific test, only my parlee comes even close. what do it like about it? it seems to fulfill ti's promise: it is very lively, very smooth, a really nice balance of stiffness and flex, it climbs really really well, the welds are super clean, and you don't see very many of them. i'm sure kelly could build a legend that rides like my CJ. at the time i ordered by IF, i had an hors, so a legend seemed redundant. if i had to single out one attribute of the CJ it would be its liveliness.

[FlaRider]

I agree 100% with Climb's observations. I own a Legend Ti and an IF Ti CJ, both built specifically for me in 2004. I weigh about 160 lbs. The geos are almost identical. As Climb said, the IF is extremely lively and comfortable, yet stiff when you stand up and hammer. It almost rides like a very, very fine steel frame except the ride is more muted and the bike obviously feels lighter than a steel frame. The Legend, on the other hand, feels a little harsher when you go over rough patches of road. It's still comfortable, especially with Topolino wheels, and has good road feel but it's not quite as comfortable as the CJ. The IF is my daily training bike. I could ride it every day and never get bored. The Legend is more of a 'racer', great for hammer rides but a little more 'temperemental.' If I had to pick one, it would be the IF.

[Climb01742]

generalizations are always risky, but i'd say...if you're a bigger, stronger rider, go for a legend...if you're on the smaller, lighter side, go for a CJ.

[victoryfactory]

I've ordered 3 custom bikes from Serotta over the years and I have
always suspected that they over build them.
At first I assumed that that was what a "racer" wanted, and that Serotta
was designing to that spec.
But I wonder if it's just their culture up there to ere on the side of
stiffness because they are so scared of being accused of making a
"macaroni" frame?
On my last custom (Legend Ti) I had to practically beg them to soften the
ride. (the result was and is the best bike I have ever owned)

But I wonder if people placing an order would be well served to explore this
apparent bias in Serotta designs with their fitter carefully

VF, thoughtful, concise, insane

[zap]

Might have a point there. The first Legend I rode was too stiff imho. But then so was the Seven Ti.

The second Legend (ST) I rode last summer had a nice ride to it. Much improved. I just didn't like the pivot on the rear stay, but that was only noticable at higher speeds on woopy bumps. Easily solved.

Thats why I would recommend prospective buyers to try different options. Hard to do I know, but if you want that dream bike, take the time and coordinate with your shop. I'm not so sure how effective a fitter is going to be when testing this dynamic though.

Trust your tactile feel.

[FlaRider]

Victory, I think you're spot on. When I ordered my Ottrott, I made a special point of having a conversation with Kelly regarding the desired "stiffness" of the Ottrott, especially since I felt that my previous Serotta (a Legend) was too stiff and wanted to make sure that the Ottrott was "perfect" -- silky smooth but with a lot of snap when the hammer came down. I'm glad I had a talk with him because the ride of the Ottrott is exactly what I had hoped it would be.

[Climb01742]

raphael, so you've gotten your ottrott? if you have a moment, how about a ride report? how does it compare to your other frames? thanks!

[Ahneida Ride]

I've ordered 3 custom bikes from Serotta over the years and I have
always suspected that they over build them.
At first I assumed that that was what a "racer" wanted, and that Serotta
was designing to that spec.
But I wonder if it's just their culture up there to ere on the side of
stiffness because they are so scared of being accused of making a
"macaroni" frame?
On my last custom (Legend Ti) I had to practically beg them to soften the
ride. (the result was and is the best bike I have ever owned)

But I wonder if people placing an order would be well served to explore this
apparent bias in Serotta designs with their fitter carefully

VF, thoughtful, concise, insane


Exactly. !!!! Their demo was STIFF !!!!

I told em I want a bike to RIDE not RACE !!!

Serotta delivered a sweet Legend. Magical ride. They can do it.

BUT ... you gotta ASK !!!